Black Belt time requirements

[A.R.K.]

There has been much good discussion lately about earning a BB, earning a second or more BB etc. Also how many days are trained per week and such. I thought it would be interesting to poll folks here to see if there were any trends or averages. There are no wrong answers :)

For both instructors & practitioners of BB rank or above, how long did you train to reach the 1st Dan or equivelent?

Is this average time for your discipline?

How many days a week on average did you train?

If there is a second or more discipline in which a BB was earned, how long?

Thanks for participating :asian:

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Six Years steady training to get to Shodan.
Six years is definitely within one standard deviation of average for Kenpo.
I trained 4 - 5 times a week.

[KanoLives]

Is it possible to get a BB in one year?

[Robbo]

Anything's possible, how hard do you want to work for it?

Rob

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

You can get a Black Belt in about 5 minutes at the local Martial Arts Supply store...and that would probably be worth as much as one earned in a single year.

[John Bishop]

In Kajukenbo it's ussually 4-6 years to student black.

[kilo]

In our style of Aikido its possible to get shodan in 1 year to a year and a half.

[Shuri-te]

There are several variables you need to consider.

One criteria is athletic ability. Let's face it, some people are more athletic than others. Not only can they perform techniques better with little training, but, at least early on, they get more out of their training. Part of the success in many martial arts is the ability to do movements at high speed, with the appropriate balance of relaxation and flexing. Compared to less athletic students, many athletic people can just move faster, and more quickly learn to control muscle relaxation and flexing at high speed.

A second criteria is determination. Some people are really motivated to work hard and some are less so. Some get more out of a practice than others.

A third criteria is age. In general, young people are more adept at learning physical movements than older people.

A fourth criteria is amount of time training. And this is tough to measure, because the real issue is not time in the dojo, but total time training. Some people spend 10 or more hours a week in the dojo. Many only spend 3 or 4. In addition, many people might train a half hour or more every day in addition to what they do in the dojo. We all know that these people who train intensively are going to progress more quickly.

All these factors influence how long it will take a student to become competent at some required set of skills. If the test for black belt comes after achieving some level of competence in a specific set of skills, then it would be difficult to draw out an average amount of time to black belt. Because if age, athletic ability, total hours training and intensity of training were all taken into account, then some people are going to accomplish in three years what it takes others 6 or more years for others to do.

It is my experience that the many systems ignore many of these issues and don't test once some given level of ability is achieved. Rather, rank promotion comes in a more orderly, easy to measure progression, one based on time in the dojo. It's just like going to school. By and large students move from one grade to the next based on time, not ability. Each year a pool of people, with all different skill levels, move up a notch together.

Therefore, promotion becomes based on attendance. I would argue that if you look at the average (mean) time spent in the dojo training, of all students across all Martial Arts, it is probably not much more than 4 hours per week, and could be less. Let's suppose a school requires a student to be in the dojo training an average of 4 hours per week over 4 years (allowing 2 weeks illness and vacation.) That would translate into 800 hours until black belt.

My guess is that this number of hours in the dojo might actually be a bit high for many karate systems. I know of a school that uses time in the dojo as the base criteria to be qualified to test for black belt, and it is much closer to 300 hours, but the students are expected to train extensively outside the dojo.

[Shodan]

As for me...........it took me 12 years!!!!!!!! This was not all my fault though!! I started when I was 13 years old and went to class several times every week. Through the years, I had some great instructors but, unfortunately, they were not real stable in their own lives and a lot of them ended up leaving us and one of them passed away. I would then have to wait around for a new instructor or try to find another Kenpo studio in my area.......which wasn't always possible. As of today, I have had 5 different instructors (the current one is finally a stable individual who has had a studio for a loooooonnnnnggggg time). The average time in our studio, with dedication and dilligent training- to reach black belt is 6 years. Those of you with stable studios.......feel blessed!! It doesn't always work out that way!!
I also dabbled in Arnis and got up to green there- that took about 1 1/2-2 years.

:asian: :karate:

[Mithios]

It took 4.5 years to get my black belt in the first system training 6 day's a week. And 2 years to get black in the second system. I had 8 years in the first one.When i started the second.If i had not had that time in, it would have taken around 5 years for the second. Average time to black in both systems was around 5 years. so earning my first black belt did help a lot in earning the other. MITHIOS

[James Kovacich]

There are several "recognized" instructors that use 2-3 years for their time in grade. When I was teenager under 5 years was unheard of. My has been very much diversified so I pobably had close to 18 years solid training in before receiving my Full Instructorship.

A side note. My brother-in-law uses actual class hours as a guide and in addition for your first teaching certificate you need 1000 teaching hours in.

:asian:

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by akja
There are several "recognized" instructors that use 2-3 years for their time in grade. When I was teenager under 5 years was unheard of. My has been very much diversified so I pobably had close to 18 years solid training in before receiving my Full Instructorship.

A side note. My brother-in-law uses actual class hours as a guide and in addition for your first teaching certificate you need 1000 teaching hours in.

:asian:

MY MISTAKE.

Their are 2 apprentice Instructor certifications before receiving a full Instructor certification. The full Instructor certification prereqs. are to be at least a Shodan and have the 1000 hours teaching in.

I can't remember how many hours it was for my apprentice certs.

[Turner]

It took me 7 years to get my Black Belt in Kenpo
3 months for my Black Belt in Hapkido
18 Months for my Black Belt in Tang Soo Do.

From age 11-22 I physically trained on average of 6 to 8 hours a day every day, mental training (Research and Analysis) was 2 to 4 hours per day.
From age 22 to present I physically train on average of 4 hours a day and 8 hours of mental training. Resting on Sunday. (I'm trying to work back up to 8 hours 6 days a week)

It has been my experience that on average it takes:
5 to 7 years to obtain a Black belt in Goju-ryu karate
3 years for Hapkido
5 years for Aikido
1.5 years for Japanese Shorinji Kempo students
3 years for American Shorinji Kempo Students
3 Years for Tang Soo Do
3 years for Shotokan Karate
5 to 7 Years for Kyokushin Karate
7 to 9 years for Kenpo

Keep in mind that this is my experience based on the particular instructor that I had in each of the arts. All vary depending upon the instructor and organization.

[stickarts]

Average at our school is 3 - 5 years. It is really more about quality hours of training than years though.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by stickarts
Average at our school is 3 - 5 years. It is really more about quality hours of training than years though.

That's about the going rate at my dojang as well... :asian:

[Michael Billings]

Chinese Kenpo

1 year between each Brown Belt = 3 years
An equivalent time in "Colored Belts" = 3 Years.
+ 1 to grow on = 7 years.

Whew!
:yinyang:

Now in EPAK - Got to learn it all over again ... plus!

[Shinzu]

i voted 3 years, but it could be longer depending the person involved.

[theletch1]

Five years is about the earliest you'll see shodan in nihon goshin. Most folks take between 5 and 7.

[twinkletoes]

At our school it's about 5-8 years for an adult, 8-10 if you start young. No black belts are awarded before age 16.

I've seen one fantastically gifted (and middle aged) individual who started from scratch with no experience, and got a black both in our kenpo program and in modern arnis in juuuust shy of 5 years. He is extremely talented.

In BJJ it will take me a LONG time. I'm in no hurry. I don't really care about the belts anymore, I just want to reach a high standard of performance.

~TT

[bdparsons]

Originally posted by Turner
3 months for my Black Belt in Hapkido

What type/kwan of Hapkido did you study?
Were you studying Hapkido solely at this time or was this in combination with other arts?
Who was your instructor?

Respects,
Bill Parsons

[Ender]

How about AFTER Black?...how long between 1st , 2nd, 3rd....etc

[Shinzu]

in TSD ... 1st - 2nd = 2 years. 2nd - 3rd = 3 years. 3rd - 4th = 4 years and so on.

[TallAdam85]

All depends on the person at my school But the fastest anyone ever got it was 2 years most people get it about 3- 4 years about 4 years for me.

[TallAdam85]

WHAT GRANDMASTER in 10 years thats NUTS

[Seig]

Originally posted by TallAdam85
WHAT GRANDMASTER in 10 years thats NUTS
I think you misunderstood. What it means is you must be a 1st Dan for 1 year before eligibility for second, then two years as a second for third, three years as a third, four years as a fourth, and so on.

[jfarnsworth]

It took me 4.5 yrs. in Kenpo & 3.5 yrs. in TKD.

[Ender]

Originally posted by Shinzu
in TSD ... 1st - 2nd = 2 years. 2nd - 3rd = 3 years. 3rd - 4th = 4 years and so on.

thats 60 years to 10th!

[Shinzu]

Originally posted by Ender
thats 60 years to 10th!

no one said it was a short trip! :D

[theletch1]

no one said it was a short trip!
That would also be why so many eyebrows are raised when a 25 year old grandmaster of six different arts pops up.

[Ender]

Originally posted by theletch1
That would also be why so many eyebrows are raised when a 25 year old grandmaster of six different arts pops up.


or even how someone can go from black to 10th degree in 5 years....*L

[Shinzu]

Originally posted by theletch1
That would also be why so many eyebrows are raised when a 25 year old grandmaster of six different arts pops up.
agreed!

[LadyDragon]

It took me just over 5 years to earn my black belt in American Kenpo. But I've heard of some McDojo's out there where someone can earn there black belt in anywhere from 8 months to a year.

[theletch1]

But I've heard of some McDojo's out there where someone can earn there black belt in anywhere from 8 months to a year.
Yep, we've got a couple of those around here. Was looking at MA magazines at the local Wally World and was approached by a guy who appeared to be in his mid 50's. We began discussing MA. He told me he had just gotten his black at [black belts r us] and had trained for a WHOLE year to get it. He asked about the aikido that I study and asked to see one of the techs that could be done standing there in the aisle. I showed him a white belt tech ( a simple wrist lock) and he was blown away. Kinda makes ya wonder, huh.

[LadyDragon]

It sure does make you wonder about the quality of that persons MA's and the type of black belt quality being put out by the McDojo where they study. People tend to forget, especially in MA that its the quality of what you know, and not the quatity. It does no one any good if you know 1000 techniques if you can only do 2 of them well. You earn a black belt, you don't beg, plead or buy one.