What make a successful TKD school

[terryl965]

You know I have had my school for over 20 year and at no time have I ever had 100 people so my question is simple what makes a good TKD school? How can I enroll alot of people and make some money from my art?

My school has been successful in that people truely learn TKD and compete at a high level, butat this time in my life without being employed any longer it would help to have all that extra cash come in.

I know some of you will tell me it is not about the money but to be honest it is now, I have suffered enough over all these year and looking for full proof ways of bringing in people.

Thanks for understanding my delima.

[ralphmcpherson]

Well I wont tell you its not about the money. In business it is about the money, you can be as passionate as you like about your business and providing a good service but at the end of the day all good business people know that the bottom line in business is to make money and there are plenty of very reputable martial arts clubs out there making heaps of money. Many people in martial arts attribute making good money with being a below par school and this I disagree with. The club I train at makes a hell of a lot of money and yet has very affordable fees ($50 per month and cheaper family rates), good quality instruction and proffessional equipment etc. We have a demo team who have demo specific training to put together quality demos and try to do demos as often as possible at school fetes, carnivals etc and hand out flyers offering a free first class. Its important to involve younger kids and elderly students in the demos so it doesnt "scare off" potential clientel by just having young, fit guys jumping around smashing timber in all directions. We are also not affiliated with larger orgs and so have our own inter-club championships each year where we get heaps of students show up and all pay a $20 entry fee, which is quite cheap for a full day of competition but would be a good earner for the club. we also have a specialised black belt class each week and students pay $10 to attend if they want some extra training. Club merchandise also makes good money especially if promoted at the right time of year such as christmas where parents buy a club jacket, shirt, sparring gear etc etc as christmas presents. We also advertise reasonably heavily because we know we have a good club with a good atmosphere and quality instruction, so if we get students we generally keep them (in my class alone we have had 8 new white belts in the last month, and we have well over 30 classes just in my area alone). Getting students is the easy part, keeping them is whats difficult and creating a good club atmosphere goes a long way toward this.

[terryl965]

We have the opposit problem alot of people have been with us for years but we get very few new ones, I need to grow inthis direction. Bringing in about fifty newbies every thre months would be perfect. Any suggestion on how to do this?

[chrispillertkd]

Try running a special where you give people $10 off their monthly tuition for bringing in someone who signs up for classes. It could be $10 off for them per person who signs up so even if you charge, say, $50 a month and someone brings in 5 new people you still get the money from the new students. You could do this promotion during a time like the summer when a lot of students miss a month or two due to vacationing or what have you to try to avoid major dips in income if that's a problem.

Pax,

Chris

[ralphmcpherson]

We have the opposit problem alot of people have been with us for years but we get very few new ones, I need to grow inthis direction. Bringing in about fifty newbies every thre months would be perfect. Any suggestion on how to do this?I believe a lot of our new students are the result of demos. If you do a demo at a highschool it really doesnt take much to impress the kids and they are always up for a new 'craze'. I remember when I was in primary school and a bunch of people showed up and did a yo-yo demo at lunch time and the very next day half the school rolled up with a yo-yo (I think the simpsons even had an episode where this happened). You get a bunch of highschool kids full of testosterone and have a tkd demo team show up and start smashing timber all over the place and have some good full contact sparring demos and some throws and locks and self defence stuff and you will get some very interested onlookers. Letterbox drops have also helped my business (although my business is not MA related).

[granfire]

We have the opposit problem alot of people have been with us for years but we get very few new ones, I need to grow inthis direction. Bringing in about fifty newbies every thre months would be perfect. Any suggestion on how to do this?


We used to do a lot of demos, elementary school tho, the young ones were the main target (and the schools around here are weird at times and won't let you come).

If you have a good program, a bit of everything, a bit form, a bit one steps, a bit breaking and maybe a bit of participation....

It was a lot of fun, though we did usually spend a whole morning on the school.

I think the demo at a local trade show (home and garden type thing) did not yield much.

But you have to get your name out there.

Another thing, we had bright pink cards 'for a free lesson' we passed out. I prefer business cards though I can stick in my wallet. Anything with your name and contact info though.

Also, the school did a 7 week trial for a nominal fee, uniform included.

I signed on under the 'parents join free' just pay the uniform. I always said I cost the school a lot of money, because I got grandfathered in on the 2 for 1 deal... :)


I always wished the school would have a summer day camp deal but the school owner balked at that. But then again, I can understand it, he was open 6 days a week, from somewhere around 3:30 until 9PM week nights, 9AM til about 1 or 2 PM Saturday morning...

[bluewaveschool]

I know someone that does parents train free, he claims it has done a lot for his business

[granfire]

I like to say it was of limited success...but then again, of the 5 people I know who signed up, 3 stayed on. :)

The adult crowd is hard to recruit around here.

[miguksaram]

You know I have had my school for over 20 year and at no time have I ever had 100 people so my question is simple what makes a good TKD school? How can I enroll alot of people and make some money from my art?

My school has been successful in that people truely learn TKD and compete at a high level, butat this time in my life without being employed any longer it would help to have all that extra cash come in.

I know some of you will tell me it is not about the money but to be honest it is now, I have suffered enough over all these year and looking for full proof ways of bringing in people.

Thanks for understanding my delima.
I have always wondered about the hipocrisy we have in the martial arts when running a business. If I was to say that I truely enjoy building computers no one would blink an eye that I opened up a computer shop to do what I love and make good money at it. However, tell someone that you want to do this as a martial artist and people read you the riot act as if you were satan himself.

First and foremost you have to start with a truthful self examination. Throw the whole "if you are making money you are selling out" mindset out. Start by taking a look at at what you charge for your time. Are you getting paid what you are worth? Don't be humble, be bold. Too many instructors have sold themselves short. You have already proven that you have produced good TKD people. Next examine you overall school prices, are your prices similar, lower or higher, than what is out there? If higher why? What do you offer that ABC Dojang down road doesn't. If lower, then raise it up a bit to be just below similar to what is out there.

Next look at different programs to possibly add on. One of the best things we have done in our school in the past two months is add a Black Belt Club and a Leadership Program. Now before people start jumping on the whole giving out belts speech, let me just say that being a member in our BBC does not mean you get a black belt in specific time frame. It simply means you have made a long term commitment to earning a black belt. With that we have 3 programs: Basic, BBC and Leadership. Our basic is our core curriculum, we can have someone sign up for 3, 6 or 12 months and they can also pay in full for a small discount in price. We still teach what we have always taught. Nothing more, nothing less. Our BBC adds more width to the learning process. This is a 2-year program, with a money down and monthly payments. We tend not to do one time payments on this so you always have an income coming in. Our Leadership Program (invite only for people at 5th kyu/gup or higher) adds more depth to their learning process. This is a 3-year commitment. Same thing as our BBC with down payment and monthly payments. Each class has a couple extra perks than the one before it.

Another thing to consider, if you haven't already, is private lessons. It is cool to spend some extra time with a student here and there, but if it is a thing where you are taking up to 30 minutes of extra time, why not get paid for it?

Finally you must advertise. Do flyer runs, get involved with the chamber of commerce, things of that nature. Do a membership drive contest within the school. Offer cash incentives to people who get other people to join. That vast majority of your business will be word of mouth. So start examinig where you are putting your marketing efforts. This will help cut down on some of the expenses.

I hope this helps a bit. Please let me know if you have any questions on any of this.

[Daniel Sullivan]

You know I have had my school for over 20 year and at no time have I ever had 100 people so my question is simple what makes a good TKD school? How can I enroll alot of people and make some money from my art?

My school has been successful in that people truely learn TKD and compete at a high level, butat this time in my life without being employed any longer it would help to have all that extra cash come in.

I know some of you will tell me it is not about the money but to be honest it is now, I have suffered enough over all these year and looking for full proof ways of bringing in people.

Thanks for understanding my delima.
Firstly, as soon as organizations that ask for fees, gain IOC recognition and corporate partnerships enter the picture, there is a business/money element.

I think that there is definitely room for both a passion for your art and financial success. Look at Paul Reed Smith, Martin and Taylor guitars. Those companies stay in business in large part because they are passionate about their art (making instruments) and make a quality product that will enable people who are passionate about their music to sound better. Those companies have found success because people who are passionate about their music are attracted to that.

Sales are all about creating need in the customer's mind, learning your customer's needs and desires, and matching your product's features and benefits to your customers' needs and desires.

In order to do that effectively, you need to know what those needs and desires are and then you need to be able to effectively communicate how those features and benefits will meet those needs and desires.

What are people looking for when they walk into a martial arts studio, or when they do a search for martial arts schools on the web? You have been in the biz long enough to probably know the vast majority of reasons.

Just as musicians don't all play the same style of music, all people looking at an MA school don't have the same reasons. You need to identify the reasons that are most applicable to your school and idenitify the types of people that go with those reasons.

Your school has physical benefits: location, size, equipment, etc.
Your school has personel benefits: a knowledgeable and capable staff that knows what they're doing.
Your school has the benefit of a quality product: Taekwondo.

And that last one is where you narrow your field a bit. Who is most interested in taekwondo? What are the reasons that people want to take taekwondo? Since you teach both the art and the sport, you can actually hit the child/athletics crowd and the traditional/SD crowd.

Also, all of the martial arts studios are competing, to some extent, for much of the same pie, mainly because most people don't know the difference between karate, hapkido, aikido, taekwondo, taijutsu and tai chi, let alone the variants within each art.

But people tend to gravitate towards certain arts because the environment meets their needs. Taekwondo tends to have a very broad appeal and a very strong appeal with families, which puts you in a good position. Take a look at what other, successful taekwondo studios in your area are doing with regards to marketing.

Lastly, set very specific goals as to the degree of financial success that you are trying to achieve. Do you want to be the nationwide household name for taekwondo? Or be able to make enough to pay your bills with a little extra? Look at you monthly sales numbers, set sales goals, and make concrete plans to meet those goals.

Chances are, you have a great deal of what customers are looking for and with the economy being in the tank, quality is what sets you apart. Also, if your prices are reasonable and the quality is there, you will be another leg up.

Daniel

[Xue Sheng]

Both successful but for very different reasons

#1 (http://www.tkd-boston.com/)

#2 (http://www.paitkd.com/)

Which one do you want to be?

Then look to what they are doing and why they are successful. However, and I hope I am way off here, I am getting the feeling you are looking for success like #2 and although I understand and would not blame you in the least it saddens me to think that. I will also admit it is MUCH easier to gain success ($$$) in TKD these days based on #2. But to be honest I believe you are currently much closer to #1

[Earl Weiss]

"
An Ancient Art

You are going to learn an art thousands of years old. This art, combined with many of today's modern sciences, has evolved into one of the best physical and psychological training methods known."

For the knowledgeable this is a turn off. For the naive, possibly an attraction.

Sadly, once/ if you are caught playing with the truth the seeds of doubt are sown.

[Earl Weiss]

Sadly, the compettive environment will factor largely in your success. People looking for a school will often choose:
A. The Most convenient - locations and class times.
B. Where their friends are
C. Cheapest

They have no yardstick by which to measure quality. They see a bunch of people dancing in their pajamas, and if they are going to learn an "Ethnic" art and someone of that ethnicity is teaching then they are suitably impressed.

[Earl Weiss]

I have found the "Lead Box" idea, succesful. Sadly I did not have the energy to continue it. VBAsicaly it works like this.

You see boxes in stores that say "Fill out card for a chance to win...."

So, your boxes say fill out card to win free martial art classes for yourself & a friend. (I just had the win classes and then realized that I wanted to get people in an some are less intimidated if they do things with someone they know.

So, you place a dozen or so boxes at local merchants, and collect cards monthly. Every card is a winner and you say for example the free classes are the last Mon and Wd. of the month if you send out notices the beginning of the month. Schedule the classes so they fit your schedule and so your regular class starts as these are ending so they can stay and watch. Hopefully after the free class they sign up. If I sent 100 cards I might get 10 people at the classes and a couple would sign up. The energy comes with maintaining the boxes and collecting cards.

[Earl Weiss]

If I were Full time kick and Punch and extremely energetic I would take a page from the multileve, marketing gurus and pay a nice referral fee to every student for every referral so long as the referral continued to train, and the referring student continued to train as well.

Example. Current monthly tuition is $100.00 / mo. Keep the same or raise $20.00.
For each student they refer, their tuition is lowered $20.00 / mo so long as the referral trains. Now, wouldn't it be just terrible if you had 10 people training for free who would have been paying $100.00 / mo but now you have 50 paying people they referred?

Whether or not you issue them a check if they exceed the base tuition, which of course is a great motivator or give addittional credits for test fees and equipment is up to you.

Then of course each of the 50 referrals my be incentivised to bring referrals.

The numbers can work well even if each levels bring in 2 referrals 10-20-40-80-160 =310

[Daniel Sullivan]

I have found the "Lead Box" idea, succesful. Sadly I did not have the energy to continue it. VBAsicaly it works like this.

You see boxes in stores that say "Fill out card for a chance to win...."

So, your boxes say fill out card to win free martial art classes for yourself & a friend. (I just had the win classes and then realized that I wanted to get people in an some are less intimidated if they do things with someone they know.

So, you place a dozen or so boxes at local merchants, and collect cards monthly. Every card is a winner and you say for example the free classes are the last Mon and Wd. of the month if you send out notices the beginning of the month. Schedule the classes so they fit your schedule and so your regular class starts as these are ending so they can stay and watch. Hopefully after the free class they sign up. If I sent 100 cards I might get 10 people at the classes and a couple would sign up. The energy comes with maintaining the boxes and collecting cards.
If you don't mind my asking, where do you get the boxes? Are they rented or available at office supply stores? I think that it is a great idea!

Daniel

[Earl Weiss]

If you don't mind my asking, where do you get the boxes? Are they rented or available at office supply stores? I think that it is a great idea!

Daniel

You can use a place like this

http://leadbox.com/

Or make your own with a local printing place making the info cards

[Earl Weiss]

Almost forgot!

This is the time of year for Gift Certificates.

Give each existing student a certificate to give to any prospective new student or a free month or whatever.

Explain the value. I.e. if classes are $75.00 / month then your student is able to give a $75.00 gift. Explain that it only has value if they know the recipient will use it.

[miguksaram]

If I were Full time kick and Punch and extremely energetic I would take a page from the multileve, marketing gurus and pay a nice referral fee to every student for every referral so long as the referral continued to train, and the referring student continued to train as well.

Example. Current monthly tuition is $100.00 / mo. Keep the same or raise $20.00.
For each student they refer, their tuition is lowered $20.00 / mo so long as the referral trains. Now, wouldn't it be just terrible if you had 10 people training for free who would have been paying $100.00 / mo but now you have 50 paying people they referred?

We did something similar. If you referred someone and they signed up for a 6month of 1 year contract we would give you $50.00. If they signed up for a 3 month....$25.00. This was just a one time payment.

We did a multilevel contest before which went well. It was a 3 month contest. Every month you had the referral contest. For each person you referred you got name placed in the drawing for a free month of lessons. If the person signed up you got the $50.00 and you were entered in for the big prize of a Wii. This would be given out to who ever had the most referrals signed up, but they had to have a minimum of 2 people signed up to be eligible.

We ended up signing up about 8 people if I recall.

[terryl965]

Both successful but for very different reasons

#1 (http://www.tkd-boston.com/)

#2 (http://www.paitkd.com/)

Which one do you want to be?

Then look to what they are doing and why they are successful. However, and I hope I am way off here, I am getting the feeling you are looking for success like #2 and although I understand and would not blame you in the least it saddens me to think that. I will also admit it is MUCH easier to gain success ($$$) in TKD these days based on #2. But to be honest I believe you are currently much closer to #1


I want to keep my school they way it is just put more people in the door, so I can make some money. Maybe hirie somebody so I can have an after school program to help make some money.

[Hollywood1340]

One might say that keeping your school the way it is but more people through the door is mutually exclusive. Change may be necessarily to get more people through the door. And that's not a bad thing.

[Xue Sheng]

One might say that keeping your school the way it is but more people through the door is mutually exclusive. Change may be necessarily to get more people through the door. And that's not a bad thing.

It may not be a bad thing, but then it might, depending on your POV, and what is changed.

[Daniel Sullivan]

I want to keep my school they way it is just put more people in the door, so I can make some money. Maybe hirie somebody so I can have an after school program to help make some money.
You need to determine why you aren't getting more people in the door. Is it an advertising issue or a content issue? Maybe both? Maybe something else.

Daniel

[terryl965]

You need to determine why you aren't getting more people in the door. Is it an advertising issue or a content issue? Maybe both? Maybe something else.

Daniel

Well one thing that is killing me is the timeframe for my BB's, with me it is more like 4-6 years. Most and I should say 98% of them are BB's withen 2-3 years, but so many people do not understand the big difference in programs. Those that have stayed and learn what I truely teach love it, but those that see every child recieving a BB in a couple of years do not understand my program. I have a big problem with bashing other schools so I kind of just do not say anything negative about them but what is positive about me and my school.

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well one thing that is killing me is the timeframe for my BB's, with me it is more like 4-6 years. Most and I should say 98% of them are BB's withen 2-3 years, but so many people do not understand the big difference in programs. Those that have stayed and learn what I truely teach love it, but those that see every child recieving a BB in a couple of years do not understand my program. I have a big problem with bashing other schools so I kind of just do not say anything negative about them but what is positive about me and my school.
Here is an example of a feature. Now, you need to make the customers realize the benefits. In order to do that, you need to be able to lay them out concisely so that the customer can see them.

Kids around them are getting black belts in two to three years. You can tell them the benefits to the extra time without bashing the other school. For instance, if you teach additional curriculum to the minimums that the Kukkiwon requires, you need to make that known; 'Yes, Mrs. Jones, that school does generally promote within two to three years, however, they are teaching primarilly sport taekwondo. There's nothing wrong with that, and we teach it here, but in addition, students are also learning... ' and then enumerate from there.

Or, you can illustrate that most students need four years to complete high school. Can the curriculum be streamlined to include only the essentials and fast track students to graduate in two years? Sure. Would those students be able to function in most ordinary jobs? Sure. Would they have as complete an education? Of course not. Would they need to take extra credit courses in college in order to make up the deficit in their knowledge? Absolutely. Does that make the teachers or the other school inherently bad? No, but it is not a teaching philosophy that you would adhere to.

Daniel

[miguksaram]

I want to keep my school they way it is just put more people in the door, so I can make some money. Maybe hirie somebody so I can have an after school program to help make some money.

Insanity: To continue doing what you are doing expecting different results. :)

Though I think I understand what you are saying...you don't want to change your curriculum just change the amount of people that are showing up to learn it. I would still recommend taking a look at what you offer and start repricing yourself. Then look at different venues of marketing.

[Xue Sheng]

Well one thing that is killing me is the timeframe for my BB's, with me it is more like 4-6 years. Most and I should say 98% of them are BB's withen 2-3 years, but so many people do not understand the big difference in programs. Those that have stayed and learn what I truely teach love it, but those that see every child recieving a BB in a couple of years do not understand my program. I have a big problem with bashing other schools so I kind of just do not say anything negative about them but what is positive about me and my school.

terry
School #2 has the following additional groups

A Black Belt Class - which costs more and apparently speeds the Blackbelt process
A Leadership Class - which costs more and leads to an internship (unpaid of course) to become a teacher
A Performance Group - which...well I don't know if that cost more or not

Also Theme Weeks

And a Children’s class with a different belt structure that eventually leads to a solid Yellow belt and the older kids (regular Class). That way they can hand out new belts to the younger kids (6 and under) every 20 weeks and keep the parents happy.

But then after that…well it’s still quick since they are a belt factory

oh and contracts
Regular = 1 year
Blackbelt = 5 or 6 years

[granfire]

A Leadership Class - which costs more and leads to an internship (unpaid of course) to become a teacher
Had words with a school owner of my (now old) organization. he insisted his people were happy with it, I insisted he made good money off it (I can direct you to the exchange if so desired, the 'leadership club' was his internship program)

[Earl Weiss]

One might say that keeping your school the way it is but more people through the door is mutually exclusive. Change may be necessarily to get more people through the door. And that's not a bad thing.

I don't think they are mutualy exclusive.

I am in a similar situation. I can't show people what I have to offer unless they walk in the door. That's where lead boxes and gift certificates and referral rewards come in. Most every form of advertising I have tried has been a dismal failure.

The pie of prospective students is only so big. If you have more people trying to get pieces, inevitably the slices get smaller. The key is exposure. A sign on a busy street is good. Being near schools is good. Other than that your exposure is thru various forms of advertising and word of mouth.

[granfire]

Did anybody mention a Hot Chocolate machine?

<ducks and runs>

[Flying Crane]

We have the opposit problem alot of people have been with us for years but we get very few new ones, I need to grow inthis direction. Bringing in about fifty newbies every thre months would be perfect. Any suggestion on how to do this?

Terry, I understand the desire to earn a reasonable income thru doing what you love. I also believe that in theory it should be possible to do this by teaching martial arts.

You've got to honestly answer a question for yourself: if you got fifty newbies every three months, and enough stayed thru the long term to make your school grow in the way you want it to, how many of them could you teach to a high standard, before you become spread too thin?

When you have too many students, you cannot give them all the attention that they need, in order to keep standards high. Quality begins to suffer.

I do not know what is that magic number of students. It is probably different for different people. It depends on how many assistant instructors you have on staff, and how good they are at teaching as well.

but you've got to really consider this. If you have too many students for you and your staff to handle, and you can no longer keep a high level of quality control in the instruction and the training, then you have become a belt factory. If that happens, will the income justify it? Will you be able to look yourself in the face every morning when you look in the mirror, knowing that you have done this?

[Daniel Sullivan]

Did anybody mention a Hot Chocolate machine?

<ducks and runs>

KMA where I teach and train has a Powerade machine, so why not?

Daniel

[bluewaveschool]

back when i first started training all the Y had was a candy machine and a RC Cola machine.

[granfire]

KMA where I teach and train has a Powerade machine, so why not?

Daniel


back when i first started training all the Y had was a candy machine and a RC Cola machine.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81466

one of the more classic threads...and one of my less than helpful moments

<hides>

[Xue Sheng]

Did anybody mention a Hot Chocolate machine?

<ducks and runs>

QUICK, hide in here :D

No I do not think anyone mentioned that but school #2 in my fist post has a juice\water\soda vending machine and the sell ice crème too.

And I suppose I should also mention the MA supply store they have to get more cash from their students and parents of their students

oh and the afterschool/daycare program that they arranged to have the public school drop kids off at his school if the parents say it is ok.

[granfire]

well, depending on the location having avending machine with sportsdrinks and water and a few snacks is a good thing. our old building was close to a gas station and a shopping center (if you braved a 4 lane highway by the intersection)

but the new location is a few miles down the road with no stores near by.

The school always provided the option to buy gear (with the organization going with 'co-branded gear, then a yucky custom orange color exclusive to the group) but the owner never insisted you buy from him. But he did provide deals on the stuff. I priced uniforms and found I got a better deal from him than from the company itself.

The other junk he offered didn't fly off the shelves much, the organizational TKD shirts, or plushies...
He does offer T-shirts though we can wear to work out in (the old school had lousy air conditioning and it got grandfathered in)

I am not opposed to vending machines, they are a service that I greatly appreciate some times.
making money is not a bad thing. At least not when the product is good and priced fair.

[ralphmcpherson]

QUICK, hide in here :D

No I do not think anyone mentioned that but school #2 in my fist post has a juice\water\soda vending machine and the sell ice crème too.

And I suppose I should also mention the MA supply store they have to get more cash from their students and parents of their students

oh and the afterschool/daycare program that they arranged to have the public school drop kids off at his school if the parents say it is ok.In my opinion having a MA supply store to "get more cash from their students" is a good thing. If they dont buy their MA gear from you they are only going to go to a martial arts store and spend their money there. Vending machines are also a great idea, if students are going to roll up to class with a gatorade in their hand they may as well be purchasing it from the club and you pocket the money. Again, if they dont buy it from you they have to buy it somewhere.In winter the students are going to wear a jacket to class and they may as well purchase one from the club with your dojang name on it because everywhere they wear it they are giving you free advertising. There are plenty of ways of making the extra dollars out of your dojand and you shouldnt think your school is any less reputable if you take advantage of these things. Its your living and you should try to make as good money as you can providing the quality of instruction doesnt suffer and your fees remain in line with your competitors.

[bluewaveschool]

I have been working out with a guy that all of his student do buy their sparring gear through him, and all of it has his schools name and logo on it. It looks to be some of the better Century stuff, I'm sure there are other places that you can get the same for a better price. He is also doing t-shirts and hoodies. I'm sure he's making a bit off it. The first batch of shirts isn't in yet, so I haven't seen them, but the gear is certainly nice. Though honestly, I would never wear anything that would ID me as a martial artist. Met too many dumbasses just from finding out I know, how many more would I meet if I advertised?

[granfire]

LOl, yeah, there is that...I got a few weird looks when I opted (against better knowledge) to walk into the grocery store after class, in full uniform, patches and BB and all that jazz...

I suppose being a smallish female, I didn't get the usual tough talk...(the 'I bet you can beat up your husband' thing got old the 2nd time I heard it tho)

[ralphmcpherson]

I have been working out with a guy that all of his student do buy their sparring gear through him, and all of it has his schools name and logo on it. It looks to be some of the better Century stuff, I'm sure there are other places that you can get the same for a better price. He is also doing t-shirts and hoodies. I'm sure he's making a bit off it. The first batch of shirts isn't in yet, so I haven't seen them, but the gear is certainly nice. Though honestly, I would never wear anything that would ID me as a martial artist. Met too many dumbasses just from finding out I know, how many more would I meet if I advertised?All the students at our club (except a very small percentage) purchase their sparring gear from the club. We are required to have all sparring gear by blue belt and the club sells good quality stuff at a reasonable price and you can purchase it straight after class rather than driving around looking for a martial arts shop. Even if the club only makes a few bucks out of each set of pads, it really starts to add up when there are thousands of students. The club also sells tkd shoes, kicking pads, cheap and expensive uniforms, club jackets, belts (plain or embroided with hangul or english), tracksuits and more and has pictures of a lot of the stuff with prices on the website. I would assume they make a tidy profit from all this stuff before a training fee is even paid.

[Daniel Sullivan]

In my opinion having a MA supply store to "get more cash from their students" is a good thing. If they dont buy their MA gear from you they are only going to go to a martial arts store and spend their money there. Vending machines are also a great idea, if students are going to roll up to class with a gatorade in their hand they may as well be purchasing it from the club and you pocket the money. Again, if they dont buy it from you they have to buy it somewhere.In winter the students are going to wear a jacket to class and they may as well purchase one from the club with your dojang name on it because everywhere they wear it they are giving you free advertising. There are plenty of ways of making the extra dollars out of your dojand and you shouldnt think your school is any less reputable if you take advantage of these things. Its your living and you should try to make as good money as you can providing the quality of instruction doesnt suffer and your fees remain in line with your competitors.
So long as the school isn't gouging people on the gear, I think that having a pro shop is a good idea generally.

Now, requiring students to buy your gear and/or charging excessive fees for gear is another story.

Daniel

[Xue Sheng]

In my opinion having a MA supply store to "get more cash from their students" is a good thing. If they dont buy their MA gear from you they are only going to go to a martial arts store and spend their money there. Vending machines are also a great idea, if students are going to roll up to class with a gatorade in their hand they may as well be purchasing it from the club and you pocket the money. Again, if they dont buy it from you they have to buy it somewhere.In winter the students are going to wear a jacket to class and they may as well purchase one from the club with your dojang name on it because everywhere they wear it they are giving you free advertising. There are plenty of ways of making the extra dollars out of your dojand and you shouldnt think your school is any less reputable if you take advantage of these things. Its your living and you should try to make as good money as you can providing the quality of instruction doesnt suffer and your fees remain in line with your competitors.

Absolutely nothing wrong with an MA supply store but they tend to use it for everything from MA supplies to the "Required board" that is needed if you want your kids to break boards. No you can’t go out and get the same exact board form elsewhere you have to buy theirs. For the record it is a ¼ inch thick pine board.

And then there is the theme weeks; board breaking, weapon, jump rope, balloon, etc. And of course they do not tell a new student or that students parents about any of this and you get slammed with it and you end up having to buy the boards, weapons, jump rope (yes they require THEIR jump rope) and balloons… how much does a bag of balloons cost for crying out loud… and they sell the balloons. I went out a bought a bag of balloons, believe it or not they did not require “Their” balloons and during balloon week I gave them away to the parents that did not know it was balloon week so they would not have to pay a $1 for a damn 3 cent balloon.

Then when you complain they say, well we have a schedule that is on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'. WHAT, you didn’t see it and NO we will not print you a copy.

After my last round with them the schedule was moved from the training area where parents could not see it to the door so parents could see it.

Vending machine water, juice, gator aide ok, vending machine Pepsi, coke and ice crème not ok IMO.

OK, I am too old school and my TKD was back before TKD was an Olympic sport at School #1 of my first post. And I am sick and tired of the belt factory that my daughter is enrolled in so I went into a bit of a rant there, sorry.

[bluewaveschool]

so take her to a school that isn't a belt factory?

[granfire]

Absolutely nothing wrong with an MA supply store but they tend to use it for everything from MA supplies to the "Required board" that is needed if you want your kids to break boards. No you can’t go out and get the same exact board form elsewhere you have to buy theirs. For the record it is a ¼ inch thick pine board.

And then there is the theme weeks; board breaking, weapon, jump rope, balloon, etc. And of course they do not tell a new student or that students parents about any of this and you get slammed with it and you end up having to buy the boards, weapons, jump rope (yes they require THEIR jump rope) and balloons… how much does a bag of balloons cost for crying out loud… and they sell the balloons. I went out a bought a bag of balloons, believe it or not they did not require “Their” balloons and during balloon week I gave them away to the parents that did not know it was balloon week so they would not have to pay a $1 for a damn 3 cent balloon.

Then when you complain they say, well we have a schedule that is on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'. WHAT, you didn’t see it and NO we will not print you a copy.

After my last round with them the schedule was moved from the training area where parents could not see it to the door so parents could see it.

Vending machine water, juice, gator aide ok, vending machine Pepsi, coke and ice crème not ok IMO.

OK, I am too old school and my TKD was back before TKD was an Olympic sport at School #1 of my first post. And I am sick and tired of the belt factory that my daughter is enrolled in so I went into a bit of a rant there, sorry.

no, rant away, that's how we learn.

Like I said, I crossed sabers with a somewhat prominent school owner in the organization. Some people had wondered why the people in the internship program were now asked to pay a yearly fee on their volunteer activity. This gentleman managed to add his own spin to it: created the leadership program, asked another 60$ a month for it.
It did cover some perks, like testing fees (around 4 tests a year) the fee and the 'leadership class' he got mad when I called bogus on him. The testing fees don't cost him a lot, the class he had to hold anyhow...

[Xue Sheng]

so take her to a school that isn't a belt factory?

1 year contract

When it is up we stop and frankly I am so disappointed in TKD as it is in my area and from what I read about many schools I do believe I shall train her myself and if she wants to go to another MA school I will wait a couple of years take her around to look and see what she wants.


no, rant away, that's how we learn.

Like I said, I crossed sabers with a somewhat prominent school owner in the organization. Some people had wondered why the people in the internship program were now asked to pay a yearly fee on their volunteer activity. This gentleman managed to add his own spin to it: created the leadership program, asked another 60$ a month for it.
It did cover some perks, like testing fees (around 4 tests a year) the fee and the 'leadership class' he got mad when I called bogus on him. The testing fees don't cost him a lot, the class he had to hold anyhow...

I don’t know what he is charging for his leadership group and I am afraid to ask since his black belt group is a 5 year contract at $6000 and what surprises me is the number of students he has in his specialty classes. Last time I counted there were at least 25 to 30 in his black belt class alone

[clfsean]

back when i first started training all the Y had was a candy machine and a RC Cola machine.

When I started, it was a gun range with no A/C in the summer, minimum heat in the winter & a water fountain. We swept the floors every night to clean up the powder that didn't burn, lead shavings & splinters from the target backdrops that flew after getting shot.

You were in a Ritz Carlton compared to me & nowadays... jeez... I can't imagine 90% of the people nowadays training like that.

[Xue Sheng]

When I started, it was a gun range with no A/C in the summer, minimum heat in the winter & a water fountain. We swept the floors every night to clean up the powder that didn't burn, lead shavings & splinters from the target backdrops that flew after getting shot.

You were in a Ritz Carlton compared to me & nowadays... jeez... I can't imagine 90% of the people nowadays training like that.

Back when I started we had a dirt floor in the cave so sweeping was a waste of time and we had to fight off a T-Rex just to get to the school :D

Actually it was on the second floor, no elevator, no AC and little heat. Also in the beginning, no pads and no protective gear. Just a big room, a carpeted floor, a heavy bag and some target bags and a stretching machine of sorts... but we did have a fruit juice vending machine (actualy real live natural fruit juice) that I beleive may have cost 25 cents and it was the only juice vending machine I ever saw

[clfsean]

Back when I started we had a dirt floor in the cave so sweeping was a waste of time and we had to fight off a T-Rex just to get to the school :D

Actually it was on the second floor, no elevator, no AC and little heat. Also in the beginning, no pads and no protective gear. Just a big room, a carpeted floor, a heavy bag and some target bags and a stretching machine of sorts... but we did have a fruit juice vending machine (actualy real live natural fruit juice) that I beleive may have cost 25 cents and it was the only juice vending machine I ever saw

I teach in a rec center 2 days a week & in a park 1 day a week. It's going to be rainy & cold (low 40's for the high only) this Sunday. I'd kill to have that gun range back again.

[Xue Sheng]

I teach in a rec center 2 days a week & in a park 1 day a week. It's going to be rainy & cold (low 40's for the high only) this Sunday. I'd kill to have that gun range back again.

Could be worse... could be where I am... this Sunday we may have a snow storm with highs in this 20s... actually... that would be exactly the weather my Sanda sifu would have dragged me out in to train...well what do you know there is something good about not training Sanda anymore after all :uhyeah:

[granfire]

When I started, it was a gun range with no A/C in the summer, minimum heat in the winter & a water fountain. We swept the floors every night to clean up the powder that didn't burn, lead shavings & splinters from the target backdrops that flew after getting shot.

You were in a Ritz Carlton compared to me & nowadays... jeez... I can't imagine 90% of the people nowadays training like that.


sounds about like the average school gym around here (minus gunpowder, naturally)
I always felt we grew 2 inches after a day of demos...

[granfire]

I don’t know what he is charging for his leadership group and I am afraid to ask since his black belt group is a 5 year contract at $6000 and what surprises me is the number of students he has in his specialty classes. Last time I counted there were at least 25 to 30 in his black belt class alone

Well, that was one of his arguments, his clients were happy and there was no other school in the area...

I am all for making money, but I lack the chutzpa to fleece people....

[Daniel Sullivan]

At KMA, the facility is nice, but there is minimal heat in the winter and only ceiling fans; no AC in the training area.

My private students get to enjoy all of the creature comforts.... of my garage! Except for kendo/kumdo. For that I rent space at a ballet studio.

Daniel

[dancingalone]

I have a private dojo built as an add-on to my house. It is nicely furnished with wooden floors along with built-in striking posts set directly into the floor surface. We do have air conditioning and heating along with a hardworking refrigerator with ice and cold water available.

I understand the appeal of 'roughing it', but at this point of my life, I'd rather teach the best lessons I can free of distractions. Hopefully, the time my students don't spend avoiding bugs or sun or rain means can be spent on more direct learning.

If I ever opened a full-time dojo in a commercial space, it would likely have the same amenities as any other modern gym.