What is Battojutsu?

[Captain Harlock]

Taken from http://www.emperorslongfist.com/BattoInfo.htm

Battojutsu is a form of traditional Japanese swordsmanship. Literally translated as "sword drawing techniques", battojutsu is defined as rapidly drawing the sword from its scabbard while performing a simultaneous cut or strike, all in one continuous motion. Such skills were essential to the classical warriors of feudal Japan, better known as the samurai who trained to use their swords with blinding speed from nearly every conceivable situation. These techniques are referred to as iai (drawing the sword from a seated or kneeling position), tachiai (drawing the sword from an upright position such as standing, walking, and running). The initial actions involved with batto include nukitsuke (the simultaneous draw and strike); which may be followed with furikaburi (bringing the blade around); and a killing blow such as kirioroshi (cutting downward). Follow-up actions include some form of chiburi (removing the blood from the blade); and noto (resheathing the blade).


This site has several good video clips, as well as additional information.

[okinawagojuryu]

I trained in Batto for a while , & from what I learned it is very different from Iai . Whereas in Iai , you begin right from the draw , in Batto , most of the time , you draw the sword , approach the target , then cut . Batto is done all standing up .

David

[Charles Mahan]

In Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaido, the initial cut begins while the kissaki(tip) is still inside the saya. If the draw is not part of the attack, it really isn't Iai or Batto. That ability to cut as part of the draw is what seperates Iai/Batto from Kenjutsu.

That said, several of the two man forms in MJER Iaido begin with the sword already drawn.

[okinawagojuryu]

This is the translated site for our Hombu , I guess Saruta Soke is wrong then , I guess he's not teaching Batto , lol.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr?tt=url&url=http://www2.odn.ne.jp/ryuseiken/main.htm&lp=ja_en

[Charles Mahan]

I agree it's a contradiction. I tried to point that out. Even MJER has techniques that do not start with the sword in the saya.

No offense intended. Let's not devolve this into a "my soke can beat up your soke" argument.

[Charles Mahan]

Out of curiosity, what style did you practice? It didn't seem clear from your post or the website.

[okinawagojuryu]

Batto Do Ryu Sei Ken . No worries . Saruta Soke , was supposed to be the Ni Dai Soke of Nakamura Ryu , he holds a Hachi Dan in Toyama Ryu , has also done some Kendo , & I believe some Eishin Ryu , as well , but dont hold me to it . I guess he had a falling out w/ Nakamura Sensei , & decided to do his own thing though .

[Charles Mahan]

I had a feeling there was Toyama Ryu involved. Toyama Ryu has some rather distinct differences of opinion with MJER. Particularly when it comes to the nukitsuke and saya biki. Interesting considering Toyama Ryu is supposed to have been derived at least to some degree from MJER.

[arnisador]

The naming is not going to be perfectly consistent. Some styles will surely appear to be misnamed or will have adopted outside techniques.

[arnisador]

There are many names for what we usually think of as iaido and kenjutsu.

I am watching Samurai Rebellion (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0061847/) now, and they actually used the word kenpo, translated as "swordwork" (i.e., swordfighting style). I have heard it said that kenpo was used in this way but had never actually heard it used in this way!

[Kempo Guy]

AFAIK, the terms Batto and Iai are often times interchangeable, i.e. one ryuha may call the sword drawing and training with a blade (iaito or shinken) Iai, whereas another school may call the same thing Batto. In modern times, it seems Batto is a more technical term for a system of cutting (such as Toyama Ryu / Nakamura ryu).

I'd also like to mention that from my limited understanding of these things, it appears as though some systems call their sword practice where a shinken is used battojutsu or iaijutsu, while the bokken work may be categorized as kenjutsu (i.e. tactics once the sword has been drawn). Don't know if this is a good definition although it makes sense to me...

KG

[Charles Mahan]

Originally posted by arnisador
There are many names for what we usually think of as iaido and kenjutsu.

I am watching Samurai Rebellion (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0061847/) now, and they actually used the word kenpo, translated as "swordwork" (i.e., swordfighting style). I have heard it said that kenpo was used in this way but had never actually heard it used in this way!

You have no idea. I put out a call for Iai suffixes on e-budo a while back and here were the responses I got that I could tie to one koryu or another


Iai do
Iai jutsu
Iai heiho
Iai hyodo
Iai kenpo
Iai kendo
Iai kogusoku
Iai koshi
Iai batto-jutsu

I can no longer thell you where some of those names come from. The first 3 are used by MJER. Hyodo is used by Mugai Ryu. The others... Don't recall anymore, but they are all in legitimate usage by some koryu or other.

[arnisador]

Can you translate these for us? Hyodo?

[Kempo Guy]

Hyodo = Heiho (military strategy).

AFAIK, Kogusoku is generally armored grappling, so I would assume Iai Kogusoku is either a grappling system with a sword in hand or a sword system where they wear armor...

Kenpo is sword way/law.

KG

[Saitama Steve]

Charles,

Kogusoku is just kogusoku and Koshi No Mawari is just Koshi No Mawari. No "Iai" prefix is needed for these particular forms. No koryu ryuha use those terms in that particular fashion.

Œ•–@�@Kenpo/Kempo = Sword Method.
�¬‹ï‘«�@Kogusoku = Armed (Not armoured) grappling methods. Usually done with a dagger or short sword.
�˜”V‰ô�@Koshi No Mawari = (Lit: Around the hips/waist) Using any expedient weapon that is around your hips, be it a sword, dagger, fan, umbrella or anything that is within arm's reach.
”²“�‹��‡ Batto iai = Sword drawing from prone positions, like sitting in seiza, sitting in agura, tate hiza and walking.
”²Œ•�@Bakken = Sword drawing.
•º–@�@Heiho/Hyoho = Methods of soldiery/Military methods.
•º“¹�@Hyodo = Military/Soldier�@way/path


Hope the Kanji doesn't come out as gibberish on your computers.

[Kempo Guy]

Thanks for the corrections. :)

I was under the impression that Kogusoku was grappling while in armor... I guess I was wrong (happens all the time).

KG

[Saitama Steve]

Kogusoku (�¬‹ï‘«) is also a term for light armour that was worn by low ranking footsoldiers.

But if it pertains to what we are talking about, it's the combined use of using a dagger/shortsword and grappling.

[Charles Mahan]

Iai Kogusoku was sent to me in pm on e-budo, by someone I can't recall anymore. It was about a year ago and my memory is not so good. I know I checked it out before adding it to the list. Someone does use it. It seemed odd to me, but no more odd than Iai Battojutsu, which seems awfully redundant, but was used in a Nakamura or Nakayama book. Can't seem to remember which. Another one reported on E-budo. Nakayama I seem to recall.

[arnisador]

Info. on encoding can be found here (about 2/3 of the way down):
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5350&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

[Saitama Steve]

Originally posted by Charles Mahan
Iai Kogusoku was sent to me in pm on e-budo, by someone I can't recall anymore. It was about a year ago and my memory is not so good. I know I checked it out before adding it to the list. Someone does use it.

That was me Charles.

[Charles Mahan]

Ahh... then we must have had a miscommunication at that time. I'll take it out of the e-budo sig.

[Saitama Steve]

Charles,

Kogusoku and Koshi No Mawari are used by different ryuha as a term for sword drawing, instead of using the iai term. They are used on their own, not with a prefix.

They're just other words for iai. :)

[Charles Mahan]

Gotcha. I was looking specifically for alternate suffixes for Iai. That's where the confusion came in. Iai-battodo is probably what led to the confusion. Apparently Nakamura, or Nakayama(forget which) used it in a book, so I included it.

[Saitama Steve]

That would be Nakamura Taisaburo. The best person to ask about the terminology for iai- battodo would be Guy Power on e-budo. He has trained under Nakamura sensei for many years.