Wow! Here's a 7 year old that's worthy...

[andyjeffries]

I know there's a lot of talk about 7 year olds not being worth black belts (personally I'd prefer he wear a poom belt, but still...) and I know this only demonstrates kicking/sparring ability not poomsae techniques or teaching ability (but he's 7 and will get that with age) but watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ_7Pwi6LnU

He's coached by Josef Salim. I saw videos of him competing "back in the day" and he was incredible.

Anyway, just thought some of you might like to watch this.

[ralphmcpherson]

I can only imagine how good he's gonna get.

[jthomas1600]

Watching that kid reminded me of the Tigger song in Winnie the Pooh, where he says' "their tops are made out of rubber, their bottoms are made out of springs, their bouncy bouncy...."

I wish I was that quick and springy. Unlike a lot of the younger kids I've seen though, none of his movement seemed to be wasted. He seemed to use counter attacks and timing really well.

Also I thought it was interesting that even though the clips were pretty short I think I saw a couple of the other competitors learning about defense and keeping their hands up etc. as the matches went on....that is until the towel got thrown in. Kind of demonstrates (at least in my mind) part of the value of sparring.

[Cirdan]

Well he is quick to be sure. Lots of talent and spirit no doubt.

However IMHO that game still only looks slightly less ridicolous with kids doing it than adults.

[granfire]

lol, at the little shoves he got in, near the edge of the ring ^_^

I hope he sticks t out. It would be interesting to see how he develops.

[mango.man]

I know there's a lot of talk about 7 year olds not being worth black belts (personally I'd prefer he wear a poom belt, but still...) and I know this only demonstrates kicking/sparring ability not poomsae techniques or teaching ability (but he's 7 and will get that with age) but watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ_7Pwi6LnU

He's coached by Josef Salim. I saw videos of him competing "back in the day" and he was incredible.

Anyway, just thought some of you might like to watch this.

See http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1331883&postcount=14 from a couple weeks ago

[Stac3y]

Hm. He has a nice spinning hook kick, and a nice axe. I don't think that makes him worthy of a black belt. I see kids that good regularly. AND they use their hands, not just their feet. Just sayin'. He probably will be really good if he keeps it up.

[granfire]

Hm. He has a nice spinning hook kick, and a nice axe. I don't think that makes him worthy of a black belt. I see kids that good regularly. AND they use their hands, not just their feet. Just sayin'. He probably will be really good if he keeps it up.

lol, I guess the hand things i part of how the game is played, but he did - for sports app - actually have a good guard at times. :)

[Hollywood1340]

If "TKD Black Belt" means "really good at the sport of TKD" then perhaps But I think black belt means more then that.

[dancingalone]

A gifted youngster. I would love to have a pupil like that and convert him away from the Dark Side. :jediduel: LOL.

[Touch Of Death]

If "TKD Black Belt" means "really good at the sport of TKD" then perhaps But I think black belt means more then that.I can just see it now... Adults asking a seven year old how to handle themselves in real life self defense situations. "do we thwart the attacker before or after Scooby Doo?"
Sean

[ATC]

Yeah, Mango.Man posted this already a couple of weeks back. Kids is pretty good.

[terryl965]

I have seen plenty of young kids that can do that, way a head of most there age. The problem is they are so good they forget about really training and just like that those that could not seem to be beating them later in life.

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have seen plenty of young kids that can do that, way a head of most there age. The problem is they are so good they forget about really training and just like that those that could not seem to be beating them later in life.

The other problem is that half of them by 10 or 12 are burnt out and never practice again!

[d1jinx]

You know we could see more like that here in the U.S.
...... but Jr Safety Rules SUCK

[ralphmcpherson]

Hm. He has a nice spinning hook kick, and a nice axe. I don't think that makes him worthy of a black belt. I see kids that good regularly. AND they use their hands, not just their feet. Just sayin'. He probably will be really good if he keeps it up.I certainly dont see kids that good regularly, maybe by age 9 or 10 but for 7 years old the kids a freak, his anticipation and distancing are well ahead of his years. My son is 6 and is quite decent at tkd for his age but this kid would tear him apart. Most kids at 7 can barely catch a ball or run fast without tripping over their own feet:)

[ATC]

You know we could see more like that here in the U.S.
...... but Jr Safety Rules SUCKThe U.S. has quite a few this good. You won't see them because of the Jr. Safety rules, but attend some scrimmages that get setup by multiple schools and you will see a few little monsters as I call them. Just about every school has one, maybe two but they are usually a masters or black belts kid. Or they are the ones that the parents don't baby and let do the hard work.

This past JO's I saw quite a few kids that were out of this world. Too bad they all got gam jeum'd to death, and lost their matches for excessive head contact. I thought my son was going to get DQ'd at one point. We had to tell him to slow down to the head and touch. Really threw his game off a bit.

Good schools teach and allow going to the head in the dojang at an early age even in the U.S.

[ralphmcpherson]

The U.S. has quite a few this good. You won't see them because of the Jr. Safety rules, but attend some scrimmages that get setup by multiple schools and you will see a few little monsters as I call them. Just about every school has one, maybe two but they are usually a masters or black belts kid. Or they are the ones that the parents don't baby and let do the hard work.

This past JO's I saw quite a few kids that were out of this world. Too bad they all got gam jeum'd to death, and lost their matches for excessive head contact. I thought my son was going to get DQ'd at one point. We had to tell him to slow down to the head and touch. Really threw his game off a bit.

Good schools teach and allow going to the head in the dojang at an early age even in the U.S.what are the safety rules ATC? Is it just an american thing or are safety rules for kids common around the world?

[d1jinx]

what are the safety rules ATC? Is it just an american thing or are safety rules for kids common around the world?

yeah, it's a USAT thing. basically children cant have any head contact. and if a kid gets kicked in the head and cant continue, they Win and the one who kicked them is D.Q.'d. So alot of "ACTORS" believe in making a scene from even the slightest touch.... sad.

7 & under all belts: no head contact,
11 & under color belts: no head contact
8-11 BB, 12-13 All belts, 14-17 color belts: "light contact NOT causing injury"

No 8 count given for these divisions...

14-17 Black Belts: same rules as seniors.

So yes, a 15 year old red belt can get D'Qd for kicking to the head....http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

[terryl965]

yeah, it's a USAT thing. basically children cant have any head contact. and if a kid gets kicked in the head and cant continue, they Win and the one who kicked them is D.Q.'d. So alot of "ACTORS" believe in making a scene from even the slightest touch.... sad.

7 & under all belts: no head contact,
11 & under color belts: no head contact
8-11 BB, 12-13 All belts, 14-17 color belts: "light contact NOT causing injury"

No 8 count given for these divisions...

14-17 Black Belts: same rules as seniors.

So yes, a 15 year old red belt can get D'Qd for kicking to the head....http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif


USAT junior safety rules suck period.http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

[Stac3y]

yeah, it's a USAT thing. basically children cant have any head contact. and if a kid gets kicked in the head and cant continue, they Win and the one who kicked them is D.Q.'d. So alot of "ACTORS" believe in making a scene from even the slightest touch.... sad.

7 & under all belts: no head contact,
11 & under color belts: no head contact
8-11 BB, 12-13 All belts, 14-17 color belts: "light contact NOT causing injury"

No 8 count given for these divisions...

14-17 Black Belts: same rules as seniors.

So yes, a 15 year old red belt can get D'Qd for kicking to the head....http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

Wow. Those rules are crazy strict. What about groin contact? Is that allowed? Are sweeps allowed?

At my school, we strike to the face and head from the start. Light contact (officially, anyway). Adults can strike the groin, kids can't.

We also compete in tournaments sanctioned by AOK (a Texas organization) and NASKA (North American Sport Karate Assn.) AOK allows head contact at all levels, but face contact only at advanced level (red/brown) and above. Light face contact; moderate everywhere else--but I've never seen anyone dq'ed for harder contact; or even warned. Groin is in. NASKA allows face and head contact (light to moderate) at all levels; groin is out.

The differences between orgs is really interesting to me.

[ATC]

Well the Jr. Safety rules were born out of MMA. I do believe that Senator John McCain was one of the advocated for the rules after watching some early MMA (UFC) fights. He called it barbaric. Don’t think he had TKD in mind when the rules were developed but as a side effect this is what we have now for Jr’s.

The funny thing is that I have seen the rules relaxed at a few tourneys. Refs just allowed the hard head contact and did not DQ or even warn for them. Not many but I have seen it.

[Gorilla]

Jr Safety rules are a bad Idea...They Hamstring early development in US Fighters

[d1jinx]

Wow. Those rules are crazy strict. What about groin contact? Is that allowed? Are sweeps allowed?

At my school, we strike to the face and head from the start. Light contact (officially, anyway). Adults can strike the groin, kids can't.

We also compete in tournaments sanctioned by AOK (a Texas organization) and NASKA (North American Sport Karate Assn.) AOK allows head contact at all levels, but face contact only at advanced level (red/brown) and above. Light face contact; moderate everywhere else--but I've never seen anyone dq'ed for harder contact; or even warned. Groin is in. NASKA allows face and head contact (light to moderate) at all levels; groin is out.

The differences between orgs is really interesting to me.

these are USAT's Rules used at USAT sanctioned events, so NON-USAT-sanctioned events and other local events are usually different (AND BETTER).

[Stac3y]

these are USAT's Rules used at USAT sanctioned events, so NON-USAT-sanctioned events and other local events are usually different (AND BETTER).

Yes, I understand that these are USAT's rules; I had a couple of specific questions about those rules, and I mentioned the others for comparison purposes. Of course, a lot of the differences may arise from the fact that I do sport karate, not Taekwondo.

[ralphmcpherson]

The funny thing is that I did karate as a teenager and pretty much any contact was not allowed. We had to 'hold' our kicks and punches and if decent contact was made in any way you were warned by the sensei, so compared to that these safety rules dont actually seem that harsh. We had a karate brown belt come and start with us because he was itching for a bit of contact. We are quite fortunate to do a martial art where contact is not frowned upon.

[ATC]

We also compete in tournaments sanctioned by AOK (a Texas organization) and NASKA (North American Sport Karate Assn.) AOK allows head contact at all levels, but face contact only at advanced level (red/brown) and above. Light face contact; moderate everywhere else--but I've never seen anyone dq'ed for harder contact; or even warned. Groin is in. NASKA allows face and head contact (light to moderate) at all levels; groin is out.

The differences between orgs is really interesting to me.So full contact to the head and groin is permitted? I could see to the head for a KO but for a sport full contact to the groin seems out of place as it is an easy target to hit and even light contact "for men" is incapacitating, not to mention could cause baby making damage.

Full contact to the head should be allowed because if skilled enough you can protect the head and it is a hard target to hit when the other person knows it is a valid target. Full contact to the body is OK as well as your body can absorb many of the blows before it takes a toll. The legs to can take a fair amount of damage. But full contact to the groin is just a fowl in any sport. I really don't see the purpose of allowed groin shots in a sport.

[Mark Jordan]

Impressive. This kid is quick and has good balance and fluidity of movement. Hope he continues to hone his skills and develop his character.

[Hollywood1340]

I gotta chime in. Groin is a point in our freestyle and it's not "incapacitating" and a harder target then one might think. It's only an easy target if you make it. And if it's an easy target YOU'RE doing something wrong. Be aware, Be safe. We are a self defense art first and the groin is a target. Learn to hit it, learn to protect it. We do no participate in tourneys where it is NOT a target nor where there are more points for head contact.

[ATC]

I gotta chime in. Groin is a point in our freestyle and it's not "incapacitating" and a harder target then one might think. It's only an easy target if you make it. And if it's an easy target YOU'RE doing something wrong. Be aware, Be safe. We are a self defense art first and the groin is a target. Learn to hit it, learn to protect it. We do no participate in tourneys where it is NOT a target nor where there are more points for head contact.Still don't see the point in sport. And again, is it full contact to the groin?

Also the groin is very easy to hit. I can attack the groin with any counter hit. I would gladly give up any body shot to blast the groin. I may even expose my head for a groin shot. Groin shots are great for SD but in sport I still say it's pretty easy to hit.

You cannot be doing continuous full contact sparring with groin shots. Two or more hits to the groin at full speed, full contact, and continuous just does not make for sport. I will have to look it up. What is the name of the art that you do. There has to be some clips of this, but I have never seen any. Please provide me with some links as I would find this very interesting to watch indeed.

[Hollywood1340]

I'd dignify that with a response but it's gone over your head so I won't. Needless to say I don't put much faith in "counter hits".

[ATC]

So no answers to any questions? OK then I will leave it at that.

[Stac3y]

So full contact to the head and groin is permitted? I could see to the head for a KO but for a sport full contact to the groin seems out of place as it is an easy target to hit and even light contact "for men" is incapacitating, not to mention could cause baby making damage.

Full contact to the head should be allowed because if skilled enough you can protect the head and it is a hard target to hit when the other person knows it is a valid target. Full contact to the body is OK as well as your body can absorb many of the blows before it takes a toll. The legs to can take a fair amount of damage. But full contact to the groin is just a fowl in any sport. I really don't see the purpose of allowed groin shots in a sport.

Light to moderate contact to the groin. Cups are required. The groin is easy to protect if you know it's a target, too. No leg kicks--knees are too fragile.

[d1jinx]

Light to moderate contact to the groin. Cups are required. The groin is easy to protect if you know it's a target, too. No leg kicks--knees are too fragile.

And nutz aren't?

[Touch Of Death]

Still don't see the point in sport. And again, is it full contact to the groin?

Also the groin is very easy to hit. I can attack the groin with any counter hit. I would gladly give up any body shot to blast the groin. I may even expose my head for a groin shot. Groin shots are great for SD but in sport I still say it's pretty easy to hit.

You cannot be doing continuous full contact sparring with groin shots. Two or more hits to the groin at full speed, full contact, and continuous just does not make for sport. I will have to look it up. What is the name of the art that you do. There has to be some clips of this, but I have never seen any. Please provide me with some links as I would find this very interesting to watch indeed.Actually you can do continuos sparring with groin shots; although, some people may not want to continue. LOL
Sean

[Twin Fist]

well he is quick to be sure. Lots of talent and spirit no doubt.

However imho that game still only looks slightly less ridicolous with kids doing it than adults.

qft

[ATC]

Actually you can do continuos sparring with groin shots; although, some people may not want to continue. LOL
SeanCan and do and two different things. I have not seen it and no one can tell me if they do. I mean street fighting is continuous and will have groin shots, bitting, kicking when down, and so on but it also is not a sport. I really don't see the point in a sport with groin shots.

[d1jinx]

suddenly I have an image of the movie Jackass....
2 idiots wearing football helmet taking turns kicking eachother in the nutz.....

[Cirdan]

suddenly I have an image of the movie Jackass....
2 idiots wearing football helmet taking turns kicking eachother in the nutz.....

You telling me those morons haven`t done it yet?

Anyway cups are overrated. In JJ everyone wears them, but I find not doing so to be better for learning to protect the groin. I`ve hurt just about every other body part (toes, ankles, knees, hip, chest, stomach, shoulders, elbows, wrist, fingers, neck, head, teeth etc) but only once gotten one of my nuts grazed. Guess it taught me something.

Anyway we don`t normally go for any contact to the groin. In Wado the groin kick is pretty much the first kick we teach, even to kids.

[Stac3y]

A: Not all of us have nuts.
B: With some protection, testicles are not really that fragile. Sure, it hurts like hell to get hit there, but I have yet to see anyone be permanently damaged by a moderate contact groin kick. Full contact with no pads, yes. I just realized, too, that since a lot of y'all are TKD, you may be using sparring gear that covers the instep, but not the toes. We require the toes to be covered, so no sharp, pointy things are coming in contact with testicles.

I've seen guys take some hard shots to the groin, groan for a minute, and get back in and win matches. I've been lifted off the mat with groin kicks. Admittedly, I pull them in practice when sparring with men, but I don't spar men in tournaments.

[Cirdan]

A: Not all of us have nuts.

Oh but you can still be hurt there, it just takes a different mode of impact hee hee.
Not that I`ve tried it out mind you (not since primary school anyway)

[Stac3y]

Oh but you can still be hurt there, it just takes a different mode of impact hee hee.
Not that I`ve tried it out mind you (not since primary school anyway)

I know a woman who got her pubic bone cracked by a groin kick from the same woman who lifted me off the mat. BTW, when she did that, I told her that I thought our relationship was moving too fast. :uhyeah: