Biggest looser real looser

[Master Dan]

Has anyone ever taken the time to investigate the show Biggest Looser? How many peopole have been injured trying to do the stuff some Skinny Biach is forcing those people to do?

Most physical training instructors Aerobics, Martial Arts, Yoga what ever are not qualified to work with obese or over 40 out of shape people. In fact most istructor work from a perspective of should look and be able to do what I do forgeting they have many years and muscle memory and conditioning that give them that ability.

The leading cuase of obesity is not just the food but self medicating with food due to deprsion. The last thing a depressed over weight person needs is to be put in a room with skinny bouncing spandex wearing beautiful people making them feel even more depressed before they even begin to hurt themselves!!!!!

Tae Kwon Do studio owners need to learn the real money is in helping overweight, out of shape and sick people which is a huge market.

I developed a specific style name and training just for this group with in the TKD Dojang. We do not allow people under a certain age with out permission to insure they don't make any of the over 40 and out of shape people are not made uncomfortable.

The focus of the class is based on physical, mental and nutritional training based on both Eastern and Western Science. Breathing based on ChiGong and Hapkido, Movements that can be adapted for all levels of ability and finishing with a final 10 minutes accomplishing a complete spinal passive adjustment that most Chiropractors don't want you to learn because you will no longer need them. The group becomes a support group of like minded people. Three days a week m-w-f and since they need to be away from general your general classes you can do it on your slack hours later at night earlier or off days like Tuesday Thursday Saturday morning.

Next thing you know 25% of these people want something more and start TKD. Ive lost people because they felt so good the looked at thier life and said Hey I don't like who im with I don't like my job I can do anything they leave town get another job. Also many of these people may be well conected and instrumental in giving more support to your programs for kids and adults.

The point to the training is to feel better and be able to do more for yourself and with your kids and grandchildren later in life not become the image of what advertising or the media is bouncing around in our face day and night. Why is the media doing this are they religous fat people and out of shape people are going to Hell!!! No!!! its money.

Western culture wants every thing fast a pill buy this or that because you need to look like that or you are a looooooooooserrrrrrrrrr. If they can depress you enough they can sell you anything!!!!!!!!!!

Biggest problem in the US in teaching MA is Eastern philosophy believes the individual is smaller than the goal two circles small and large and submit themselves to the goal with out question not worrying about how long it takes or how many times is takes to get there.

Western culture parents adults children believe they are important and the largest circle so the goal is small as soon as it is boring or hard they give up.

That is why they fail no life skills no ability to set and achieve goals. Thats why we have colored belts and people thinking they know better or won't do this or that they are unteachable.

[Touch Of Death]

Western culture is not the problem. The break down of western culture is the problem.
Sean

[granfire]

The break down of culture....

[MJS]

Has anyone ever taken the time to investigate the show Biggest Looser? How many peopole have been injured trying to do the stuff some Skinny Biach is forcing those people to do?

Hmm...would you rather have a fat biach, as you choose to say, helping them lose weight? Did you ever stop to think that the reason why they're getting injured, is because the only exercise they've been doing is lifting fork to mouth, fork to mouth, while clicking the remote. Did you ever stop to notice that the injuries decline, as they lose weight?


Most physical training instructors Aerobics, Martial Arts, Yoga what ever are not qualified to work with obese or over 40 out of shape people. In fact most istructor work from a perspective of should look and be able to do what I do forgeting they have many years and muscle memory and conditioning that give them that ability.

Out of curiosity, do you have those qualifications? If so, I'd be interested in seeing them. :) Do you know the qualifications of Bob and Jillian?


The leading cuase of obesity is not just the food but self medicating with food due to deprsion. The last thing a depressed over weight person needs is to be put in a room with skinny bouncing spandex wearing beautiful people making them feel even more depressed before they even begin to hurt themselves!!!!!

So again, as I said above, should they be put in the room with a fat trainer?


Tae Kwon Do studio owners need to learn the real money is in helping overweight, out of shape and sick people which is a huge market.

I developed a specific style name and training just for this group with in the TKD Dojang. We do not allow people under a certain age with out permission to insure they don't make any of the over 40 and out of shape people are not made uncomfortable.

The focus of the class is based on physical, mental and nutritional training based on both Eastern and Western Science. Breathing based on ChiGong and Hapkido, Movements that can be adapted for all levels of ability and finishing with a final 10 minutes accomplishing a complete spinal passive adjustment that most Chiropractors don't want you to learn because you will no longer need them. The group becomes a support group of like minded people. Three days a week m-w-f and since they need to be away from general your general classes you can do it on your slack hours later at night earlier or off days like Tuesday Thursday Saturday morning.

Next thing you know 25% of these people want something more and start TKD. Ive lost people because they felt so good the looked at thier life and said Hey I don't like who im with I don't like my job I can do anything they leave town get another job. Also many of these people may be well conected and instrumental in giving more support to your programs for kids and adults.

The point to the training is to feel better and be able to do more for yourself and with your kids and grandchildren later in life not become the image of what advertising or the media is bouncing around in our face day and night. Why is the media doing this are they religous fat people and out of shape people are going to Hell!!! No!!! its money.

Western culture wants every thing fast a pill buy this or that because you need to look like that or you are a looooooooooserrrrrrrrrr. If they can depress you enough they can sell you anything!!!!!!!!!!

Biggest problem in the US in teaching MA is Eastern philosophy believes the individual is smaller than the goal two circles small and large and submit themselves to the goal with out question not worrying about how long it takes or how many times is takes to get there.

Western culture parents adults children believe they are important and the largest circle so the goal is small as soon as it is boring or hard they give up.

That is why they fail no life skills no ability to set and achieve goals. Thats why we have colored belts and people thinking they know better or won't do this or that they are unteachable.

Oh, so what this really is, is a shameless plug for TKD? :D I understand that you, like so many others, are passionate about your art, but keep in mind, there are countless ways to lose weight.

IMHO, looking at your eating habits is a good place to start. Talk to someone who can give you advice on what foods you should be eating. Start an exercise program. Ever notice how large portions are at restaurants? Cut down on portion size, watch what you eat, get off your ass, and start walking, join a gym, etc, and you'd be surprised at the results. As for pills...LOL...nope, just like people who think theres some magical martial art, there is no magical diet pill. Hard work, hard work, hard work, oh yeah, and hard work.

[SahBumNimRush]

I'll ignore the inflammatory prose, and just respond to the points in your post.


"Most physical training instructors Aerobics, Martial Arts, Yoga what ever are not qualified to work with obese or over 40 out of shape people. "

What qualifications do you deem necessary to work with overweight clients/students or people over the age of 40 years old? As an instructor myself, I teach all ages and body types. I don't see that the challenges of teaching overweight students or older students are any more difficult than teaching younger students or students that are more athletic. Certainly the challenges are different, but that is the challenge of being an instructor; identifying the needs of the student and identifying how to properly convey that knowledge to the student that is both effective and motivational/inspiring.

"In fact most istructor work from a perspective of should look and be able to do what I do forgeting they have many years and muscle memory and conditioning that give them that ability. "

I am fortunate enough to train at a dojang that has 2 7th degree black belts, a 6th degree black belt, and 3 5th dan black belts (including myself). All of them, with the exception of myself are 60+ years old, and have been practicing for 35+ years. I think that your statement is one of a young and naive instructor, because it shows a thought of egocentrism. If you, as an instructor, can only teach to those who are like you in ability, you aren't really an instructor. That makes you a conductor, IMHO. Anyone can conduct a class, but teaching a class is another thing entirely.

"The leading cuase of obesity is not just the food but self medicating with food due to deprsion. The last thing a depressed over weight person needs is to be put in a room with skinny bouncing spandex wearing beautiful people making them feel even more depressed before they even begin to hurt themselves!!!!!"

There are a plethora of variables contributing to today's obesity epidemic, and I agree therapeutic eating is certainly one of them. However, putting older and/or overweight students in a class with younger students doesn't have to be a negative thing. It can be a healthy environment to challenge those students, and to show them what they can achieve through hard work. In my class, we do not separate rank, age, fitness level. Everyone is in the same class. This way, younger ranks witness what the skill levels of the higher ranks are, and it is inspiring to the younger ranks. This can also be the case when comparing younger aged students to other ages, especially in the case of maturity. Furthermore the advantages cross over when speaking about older students and over weight students. Some healthy/athletic students may not have started out as healthy/athletic students, some of them start as overweight and through hard work achive their goals. This is certainly inspiring, I've witnessed its power.


"Movements that can be adapted for all levels of ability and finishing with a final 10 minutes accomplishing a complete spinal passive adjustment that most Chiropractors don't want you to learn because you will no longer need them."

I am a chiropractic physician, and active and passive spinal mobilization is I educate my patients on. Stating that practicing this negates the need to see someone in my profession is akin to saying that knowing how to change your oil means you never have to see a mechanic.




"The point to the training is to feel better and be able to do more for yourself and with your kids and grandchildren later in life not become the image of what advertising or the media is bouncing around in our face day and night."

You hit the nail on the head, I agree with you 100%. The goal of training is personal improvement. I train in Moo Duk Kwan TKD, and Duk means virtue. The western translation, however, does not exactly coincide with the eastern meaning of the word virtue. Our western understanding of the definition of “virtue” refers to trait or quality deemed to be morally excellent and thus is valued as a foundation of principle and good moral being. However, Duk is a Daoist concept, referring to virtue or ability for one to realize his/her own potential. Duk, or De in Chinese, is a subtle concept that is difficult to grasp in western society. The Chinese text, Doadejing, explains that De (Duk) is the sum of all power that is inherent in each individual that can be realized through the way (Dao / Do). Duk can also be described as the active, living, or cultivation of “the way” (Do). Master Mike Haught compares this concept to a “virtuoso,” a virtuoso does not play a violin from reading music, but rather plays through from his soul/heart. He realizes his innate potential, this is the concept of Duk.

"Western culture wants every thing fast a pill buy this or that because you need to look like that or you are a looooooooooserrrrrrrrrr. If they can depress you enough they can sell you anything!!!!!!!!!!

Biggest problem in the US in teaching MA is Eastern philosophy believes the individual is smaller than the goal two circles small and large and submit themselves to the goal with out question not worrying about how long it takes or how many times is takes to get there.

Western culture parents adults children believe they are important and the largest circle so the goal is small as soon as it is boring or hard they give up.

That is why they fail no life skills no ability to set and achieve goals. Thats why we have colored belts and people thinking they know better or won't do this or that they are unteachable."

A good martial art teaches self-discipline, humility, self-confidence, and self-respect; all of which address the issues you speak of about western contemporary society. That's why our students are such moral pillars of society! They have been taught that the world doesn't revolve around them, and where their responsibilities truly lie.

[ralphmcpherson]

That show gives unrealistic expectations to over weight people. The people on the show live their full time, they adhere to diets and constant training and the fact they have a tv camera in their face makes it harder to give up. In the real world people have jobs and a budget and replicating what they see on the show is near impossible. Also, some of the stuff they do on the show is downright irresponsible, on one episode they had all the "biggest losers" doing a 30 klm run. I run regularly, I am lean and fit and I would struggle to make 30klm and yet they had people who had done next to no exercise for the last decade, carrying way too much weight attempting 30 klm. How someone didnt die is beyond me, I just hope the viewers at home arent stupid enough to attempt this.

[MJS]

That show gives unrealistic expectations to over weight people. The people on the show live their full time, they adhere to diets and constant training and the fact they have a tv camera in their face makes it harder to give up. In the real world people have jobs and a budget and replicating what they see on the show is near impossible. Also, some of the stuff they do on the show is downright irresponsible, on one episode they had all the "biggest losers" doing a 30 klm run. I run regularly, I am lean and fit and I would struggle to make 30klm and yet they had people who had done next to no exercise for the last decade, carrying way too much weight attempting 30 klm. How someone didnt die is beyond me, I just hope the viewers at home arent stupid enough to attempt this.

I've said to my wife, many times, that I can't believe that they have these huge people, who dont exercise, run a half marathon. Hopefully these people are being constantly monitored. Personally, I'm of the belief that you need to start off slow, gradually building up.

But then again, I'm not a trainer, I'm not on the show, so who knows. I dont believe anyone has died yet, and hopefully it'll stay that way.

[d1jinx]

I like the show. I watch it. I think it is a very motivational show to even myself. I'm skinny and yet I find it motivating what they accomplish.

There is alot that goes on behind the scenes that dont get added in the show, like doctor supervision and on-staff medical personel constantly monitoring them.

Regardless of whats been said here prior to me, I think the show is pretty good. Jill and Bob are damn good trainers from what i see. and get results...

[d1jinx]

I like the show. I watch it. I think it is a very motivational show to even myself. I'm skinny and yet I find it motivating what they accomplish.

There is alot that goes on behind the scenes that dont get added in the show, like doctor supervision and on-staff medical personel constantly monitoring them.

Regardless of whats been said here prior to me, I think the show is pretty good. Jill and Bob are damn good trainers from what i see. and get results...


oh... and jill used to be a fat girl!!!!! so she has some first hand experience on being fat and loosing wieght.

[d1jinx]

hey its on.... gotta gohttp://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[MJS]

I like the show. I watch it. I think it is a very motivational show to even myself. I'm skinny and yet I find it motivating what they accomplish.

There is alot that goes on behind the scenes that dont get added in the show, like doctor supervision and on-staff medical personel constantly monitoring them.

Regardless of whats been said here prior to me, I think the show is pretty good. Jill and Bob are damn good trainers from what i see. and get results...


oh... and jill used to be a fat girl!!!!! so she has some first hand experience on being fat and loosing wieght.

My wife and I watch the show as well, and we both enjoy it. I do give the contestants alot of credit for what they do, and the goals that they reach.

While the methods may seem harsh, Bob and Jill are getting results. :) Personally, I would love to have access to either of them, even if it was for no more than a week.

[granfire]

That show gives unrealistic expectations to over weight people. The people on the show live their full time, they adhere to diets and constant training and the fact they have a tv camera in their face makes it harder to give up. In the real world people have jobs and a budget and replicating what they see on the show is near impossible. Also, some of the stuff they do on the show is downright irresponsible, on one episode they had all the "biggest losers" doing a 30 klm run. I run regularly, I am lean and fit and I would struggle to make 30klm and yet they had people who had done next to no exercise for the last decade, carrying way too much weight attempting 30 klm. How someone didnt die is beyond me, I just hope the viewers at home arent stupid enough to attempt this.


I don't know, I think the billions of commercials that tell them the next new pill will have them lose weight without moving off the couch are more unrealistic. I am not watching the show as I don't do reality TV.
But frankly there is only one way to lose weight: move more, eat less.

[MJS]

but frankly there is only one way to lose weight: Move more, eat less.

qft!!!!

[Master Dan]

Ok now I have hit a real nerve for those of you who feel atacked but you are not the issue and your feelings are not the issue. And don't give me your crap about credentials of trainers or style or credos None of you have spent $4 million personally on the best doctors and surgeons for terminal child in the US over 8 years. The one thing I learned as I hired and fired them was they taught me that you are the best judge of your own body or your child and don't let any one tell you different. Doctors and experts all can have bias, or mental issues that make them the wrong person to deal with.

Titles and degrees do not make good doctors or instructors Period!!! The point is the mentality of how you work with those who are overweight or out of shape or over 50. I have personally traveled nation wide and seen young people forcing people over 40 to do training that is for teenagers rediculous!!

My point is that people have to train enough to get inshape enough to train. I did not imply the instructor had to be fat but must change thier thoughts on what an obese or out of shape person should do during the work out instead of look at me what I can do. but its not how far you stretch but doing it properly whats right for you today.

The comment of well yeh there fat of course they are going to get injured makes my point its a judgement call on part of the person doing the training. The point to training is like slow consistant progress with out injury. My GM who was one of the best fighters in the world and first cousin to Mas Yama told us to much running is bad it wears out parts of your body instead when we were on the track sprint 100 yards then slow down recover your heart rate for a time then sprint again this is more like fighting fast then slow. He also always stresed that overtrianing to injury was stoopid becasue your training will go up and down like a roller coaster and eventually you stop training be more like a train takes time to build speed and then constant then slow down you should always control your effort not collapse at the end.

There are ton of specifics if you don't know them work with successfull health care professionals that means they actually do a good job based on thier customer base not thier money or degrees. I recomend chiropractic, nutritionists, naturopathic, orthopedic surgeons, Physical theropy. The good ones are happy to share knowledge with you for free. Once you have started a good class they will even refer thier patients to you for training and theropy with suggestions of what they can and should not do. Now you have a free referal to increase your membership and you need to collect letters of reference from these health care professionals it will help you do more in the future.

Also the statement about this or that person over 60 who has trained for 50 years and can do this or that its not about them its about taking people off the couch some who have never been off the couch and giving them something to do that makes them feel better every time they come and feeling good about who they are today regardless of were they would like to be. Giving them a scure non judgemental enviroment to do this is half the battle.

Diet is a negative word. Healthy eating and lifestyle change is a much more effective. If you want to feel ten years younger in general eliminate all cofee and cafeen, yes you will go through emotional and physical withdrawle but with increased water and changing to Ginseng the effects are dramtic and an increase in energy and decrease in pain.

In my area you loose one cup of water for every 15 minutes outside just breathing at 20 below. However orthopedic surgeons say that 80% of their surgeries are related coffee and tobacco use related to dehydration and the carsonogenic substances that attack joints and skelatal disks and pads.

For the average Master or instructor (not you super elite) teaching a class that three days a week has 45 minutes of just breathing and stretching in it will increase your flexability by 100% and you will be able to do forms flat out cold with out warm up.

Leeding cause of death in US of ages over 55 are falls or related complications due to falls. Now you are not going to teach old or out of shape peopel to fall but giving them balance by strength training that is circular not linear will decrease thier chances of stepping wrong or having a bad fall by 100%

Being Ignorant is not a negative term it just means you have not learned yet Stoopid is refusing to learn. Quote my father

[granfire]

However orthopedic surgeons say that 80% of their surgeries are related coffee and tobacco use related to dehydration and the carsonogenic substances that attack joints and skelatal disks and pads.

interesting, never heard of that....

[MJS]

Ok now I have hit a real nerve for those of you who feel atacked but you are not the issue and your feelings are not the issue. And don't give me your crap about credentials of trainers or style or credos None of you have spent $4 million personally on the best doctors and surgeons for terminal child in the US over 8 years. The one thing I learned as I hired and fired them was they taught me that you are the best judge of your own body or your child and don't let any one tell you different. Doctors and experts all can have bias, or mental issues that make them the wrong person to deal with.

Titles and degrees do not make good doctors or instructors Period!!! The point is the mentality of how you work with those who are overweight or out of shape or over 50. I have personally traveled nation wide and seen young people forcing people over 40 to do training that is for teenagers rediculous!!

My point is that people have to train enough to get inshape enough to train. I did not imply the instructor had to be fat but must change thier thoughts on what an obese or out of shape person should do during the work out instead of look at me what I can do. but its not how far you stretch but doing it properly whats right for you today.

The comment of well yeh there fat of course they are going to get injured makes my point its a judgement call on part of the person doing the training. The point to training is like slow consistant progress with out injury. My GM who was one of the best fighters in the world and first cousin to Mas Yama told us to much running is bad it wears out parts of your body instead when we were on the track sprint 100 yards then slow down recover your heart rate for a time then sprint again this is more like fighting fast then slow. He also always stresed that overtrianing to injury was stoopid becasue your training will go up and down like a roller coaster and eventually you stop training be more like a train takes time to build speed and then constant then slow down you should always control your effort not collapse at the end.

There are ton of specifics if you don't know them work with successfull health care professionals that means they actually do a good job based on thier customer base not thier money or degrees. I recomend chiropractic, nutritionists, naturopathic, orthopedic surgeons, Physical theropy. The good ones are happy to share knowledge with you for free. Once you have started a good class they will even refer thier patients to you for training and theropy with suggestions of what they can and should not do. Now you have a free referal to increase your membership and you need to collect letters of reference from these health care professionals it will help you do more in the future.

Also the statement about this or that person over 60 who has trained for 50 years and can do this or that its not about them its about taking people off the couch some who have never been off the couch and giving them something to do that makes them feel better every time they come and feeling good about who they are today regardless of were they would like to be. Giving them a scure non judgemental enviroment to do this is half the battle.

Diet is a negative word. Healthy eating and lifestyle change is a much more effective. If you want to feel ten years younger in general eliminate all cofee and cafeen, yes you will go through emotional and physical withdrawle but with increased water and changing to Ginseng the effects are dramtic and an increase in energy and decrease in pain.

In my area you loose one cup of water for every 15 minutes outside just breathing at 20 below. However orthopedic surgeons say that 80% of their surgeries are related coffee and tobacco use related to dehydration and the carsonogenic substances that attack joints and skelatal disks and pads.

For the average Master or instructor (not you super elite) teaching a class that three days a week has 45 minutes of just breathing and stretching in it will increase your flexability by 100% and you will be able to do forms flat out cold with out warm up.

Leeding cause of death in US of ages over 55 are falls or related complications due to falls. Now you are not going to teach old or out of shape peopel to fall but giving them balance by strength training that is circular not linear will decrease thier chances of stepping wrong or having a bad fall by 100%

Being Ignorant is not a negative term it just means you have not learned yet Stoopid is refusing to learn. Quote my father

WOW, you come off like quite the know it all, dont you! Actually, you didn't hit a nerve with me, at least, but it just amazes me, with some of your posts, and the way you word things....like you're the only one with all the answers. News flash for ya pal, you dont have them all!

As I said, which I'll say again....TKD isn't the only way to lose weight. And yes, credentials do play a part. Its one thing to have someone with the creds. to back what they say, and another to have someone just flapping away.

Why is diet a negative word? If you read what I said earlier, I did mention watching what you eat.

On a side note, this is the 2nd post, of many, that, well...is pretty insulting and rude. Maybe you should read the forum rules before you post. :) I mean, look at your first post....skinny biatch. Nice, real nice.

[Master Dan]

That show gives unrealistic expectations to over weight people. The people on the show live their full time, they adhere to diets and constant training and the fact they have a tv camera in their face makes it harder to give up. In the real world people have jobs and a budget and replicating what they see on the show is near impossible. Also, some of the stuff they do on the show is downright irresponsible, on one episode they had all the "biggest losers" doing a 30 klm run. I run regularly, I am lean and fit and I would struggle to make 30klm and yet they had people who had done next to no exercise for the last decade, carrying way too much weight attempting 30 klm. How someone didnt die is beyond me, I just hope the viewers at home arent stupid enough to attempt this.

thank you thank you my point exactly!!!! and all the over weight people or kids watching that are just getting one more thing shoved in there face that says if you do not look like this your not worthy?

The show exploits these people and a few survive? I really wonder if investigated how many they have injured? Oh the personal injury attorneys should be listening? Oh and by the way there is no waver in the world that cannot be overturned if the plaintiff can prove neglagence on part of the trainer, school or activity.

If this country wants to solve it health care costs it will have to change its approach to alternative education and trianing for prevention not treatment.

Corporate American revolves around addictions. They have addicted us to large portions, additives and treatment instead of prevention and self healing. Insurance companies have learned it is cheaper to withhold treatment for seniors till it is to late so they may only have to pay for short terminal care. sad to say some employers are the same a short death is better than a long treatment.

[MJS]

The difference between this show and what the majority of overweight people do, is that the people on the show, are working out for hours at a time, multiple times a day. As for the injuries...of course, as I said, if all you do is sit on your ass and eat, of course when you start really pushing yourself, injuries do happen. I've yet to see anyone die on the show though. Of course, the show has also changed the lives of numerous people, so its not all bad.

[d1jinx]

ahhh... i got lost somewhere. I'm checking out. enjoy the thread.

oh... and I still like the show.http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif till next week!

[The Last Legionary]

http://martialtalk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=114&pictureid=1629

[jks9199]

Let me suggest that everyone step back, and re-read the forum's policies, found HERE (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=141). Let's drop the insults, and keep things polite and respectful, OK?

[Marginal]

interesting, never heard of that....

More interesting would be a source. Pubmed's drawing a blank.

[Bruno@MT]

Tae Kwon Do studio owners need to learn the real money is in helping overweight, out of shape and sick people which is a huge market.


Imo MA teachers should teach MA and leave the lifestyle market to others. Personally I think that MA studio should be about MA and not about increasing profits through business opportunities related to physical activity.

As soon as MA teachers need to focus on making 'real money', I think their priorities are out of whack.

[MJS]

Imo MA teachers should teach MA and leave the lifestyle market to others. Personally I think that MA studio should be about MA and not about increasing profits through business opportunities related to physical activity.

As soon as MA teachers need to focus on making 'real money', I think their priorities are out of whack.

Amen!!! Speaking for myself only here, as I know everyone has diffeent reasons for training, but for me, my goal is self defense. I view everything else, ie: better fitness, stronger, more stamina, flexibility, etc, as side benefits. I dont do to class to get stronger, I lift weights for that, but I gain strength from the exercises. I dont go to class to meet people, although I've met some fantastic people as a result of training.

Of course, what you quoted sounds so typical of sooooo many schools today....they dont give a **** about the quality of the students, as long as they can brag that they have hundreds coming in, and are making that cash.

[Brian R. VanCise]

While I do not care for the OP's tone I will say that from all accounts in my dealing with professional's in the health and fitness arena they all feel that Jillian is completely unqualified to be doing what she does. That and the means she generally uses are unsafe for the contestants. That being said the show and both Bob and Jillian do get some results. The question for the contestants is can they keep the weight off long term. (that is very hard once back in the real world)

[Brian R. VanCise]

Imo MA teachers should teach MA and leave the lifestyle market to others. Personally I think that MA studio should be about MA and not about increasing profits through business opportunities related to physical activity.

As soon as MA teachers need to focus on making 'real money', I think their priorities are out of whack.

Absolutley!!! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[MJS]

While I do not care for the OP's tone I will say that from all accounts in my dealing with professional's in the health and fitness arena they all feel that Jillian is completely unqualified to be doing what she does. That and the means she generally uses are unsafe for the contestants.

Could you expand on this Brian? What are the differences between what she does and her training background, vs. a trainer that you'd see in a gym?



That being said the show and both Bob and Jillian do get some results. The question for the contestants is can they keep the weight off long term. (that is very hard once back in the real world)

Agreed! However, there have been many contestants who've managed to keep it off. Alli comes to mind, from a few seasons ago. :)

[Brian R. VanCise]

No doubt some have kept it off while others have put back on quite a bit. Once back in the real world with all the distractions that are had and the choices it is hard for many of them to maintain there end of the season weight. Still quite a few also do maintain it because they are finally exercising.

Jillian apparently had physical trainer credentials a long time ago but never recertified or kept up to date before the show! That and since the show's become a hit she has been coming out with this and that to make money. ie. yoga dvd's and the absolutely by all accounts one of the worst kebblebell dvd's ever. (bad form, dangerous practice, etc.) Here is link to my friend's facebook page who is one of the best kettlebell instructor's in the world scroll down the page click older posts and see the one on Jillian also check out the comments: http://www.facebook.com/#!/ken.blackburn

Also Los Angeles Times article: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/homeentertainment/la-he-fitness-jillian-michaels-20101011,0,5152686.story

My perspective on health, wellness and fitness was before I went fully into criminal justice I had roughy two years in sports medicine in College. I think the practices Jillian does would damage a lot of people if replicated on a large scale. Just my 02.

[Master Dan]

While I do not care for the OP's tone I will say that from all accounts in my dealing with professional's in the health and fitness arena they all feel that Jillian is completely unqualified to be doing what she does. That and the means she generally uses are unsafe for the contestants. That being said the show and both Bob and Jillian do get some results. The question for the contestants is can they keep the weight off long term. (that is very hard once back in the real world)

thank you good points I appologize to the MA talk if i started with an inapropirate word or two. Some times I know there are some really good people out there with great knowledge but seldom take the time speak or are reluctant because they don't wish to be targets of negative comments. So I jump in and push the edge a bit so while I have a big target on my back they will be motivated to respond with constructive input.
About my being rude? I think it is far more rude to condone exploitation of weak or vulnerable people for income or entertainment. As far as know it all? I aggree with certifications and qualifications but that dose not eliminate professionals personal mental or educational issues that combined with thier ego they make neglegent decisions that hurt or even kill people on a regular basis.

Case in point my daughter had a brain bleed the replacement Neuro surgeon that had place the origin brain shunt said call the family in and say good by.

In walks our original surgeon strait from Desert Storm with his boots still on and states I told that doctoctor to stop using that brain shunt 15 years ago if the kid bumps thier head it causes a bleed, I can fix this. 4 hours later after brain surgery she was laughing in her Great Grand mothers arms.

They used to call the other doctor dr. God because who would not listen to anyone. Thats a very bad know it all unwilling to change or learn anything even at the risk of other people getting hurt or killed.

If I bring up an issue or topic its not to preach to those who already know but in the hopes some who would like to do more for others might be motivated to do more or learn more to help others thats all.

Biggest Looser may be entertaining to some but it is ridicule to others and legitimizes Jillians training methods. I am saying as instructor you can work with people under the supervision and approval of professionals while learning your self instead of do this or that to look like me or some image putting them at risk.

[MJS]

No doubt some have kept it off while others have put back on quite a bit. Once back in the real world with all the distractions that are had and the choices it is hard for many of them to maintain there end of the season weight. Still quite a few also do maintain it because they are finally exercising.

Jillian apparently had physical trainer credentials a long time ago but never recertified or kept up to date before the show! That and since the show's become a hit she has been coming out with this and that to make money. ie. yoga dvd's and the absolutely by all accounts one of the worst kebblebell dvd's ever. (bad form, dangerous practice, etc.) Here is link to my friend's facebook page who is one of the best kettlebell instructor's in the world scroll down the page click older posts and see the one on Jillian also check out the comments: http://www.facebook.com/#!/ken.blackburn

Also Los Angeles Times article: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/homeentertainment/la-he-fitness-jillian-michaels-20101011,0,5152686.story

My perspective on health, wellness and fitness was before I went fully into criminal justice I had roughy two years in sports medicine in College. I think the practices Jillian does would damage a lot of people if replicated on a large scale. Just my 02.

Thanks Brian. A few more questions for you. :)

1) What are your thoughts on Bob?

2) Are Jillians creds. UTD now? If so, then I'd say theres no issue. If they are not UTD, then how could a show go on giving the impression that she's a legit trainer? Wouldn't that be like me going to work as a mechanic at a car dealership....but not knowing a clue about cars?

[Nomad]

Has anyone ever taken the time to investigate the show Biggest Looser? How many peopole have been injured trying to do the stuff some Skinny Biach is forcing those people to do?

Most physical training instructors Aerobics, Martial Arts, Yoga what ever are not qualified to work with obese or over 40 out of shape people. In fact most istructor work from a perspective of should look and be able to do what I do forgeting they have many years and muscle memory and conditioning that give them that ability.

The leading cuase of obesity is not just the food but self medicating with food due to deprsion. The last thing a depressed over weight person needs is to be put in a room with skinny bouncing spandex wearing beautiful people making them feel even more depressed before they even begin to hurt themselves!!!!!


Not that it's my favorite show or anything, but I have watched occasionally. They don't have skinny bouncing spandex wearing beautiful people in the gym... it's other folks with problems (obesity, depression, and so on) exactly like theirs. This creates a team atmosphere and allows them to draw inspiration from one another.

They do have a team of physicians there to monitor the health of the contestants, and there have been remarkably few injuries on the set for such big people who are obviously not used to physical exercise.

Finally, in almost every episode I've seen (contrived or not is difficult to say), someone breaks down emotionally and hits on some of the root causes of their obesity, often rooted in the depression you speak of. To a large extent, it's addressing this that allows the person to move forward and self-motivate.

The dangers, IMO, lie mostly in people getting inspired to try this on their own, without the qualified medical and professional help that the show obviously has as a resource. Or in heading to the local gym and expecting the same kind of knowledge base in a trainer who may have had vastly less experience and training in obesity related issues. These are far more likely to lead people to serious injuries than the show.

On the other hand, when you get that large, there are usually some serious health problems (diabetes, heart conditions, joint issues, and so on) already going on that may just end up killing you if you don't do something about them. Personally, I think the inspiration to get up and do something is worth more than the potential risks of injury from someone doing it wrong.

[MJS]

Not that it's my favorite show or anything, but I have watched occasionally. They don't have skinny bouncing spandex wearing beautiful people in the gym... it's other folks with problems (obesity, depression, and so on) exactly like theirs. This creates a team atmosphere and allows them to draw inspiration from one another.

They do have a team of physicians there to monitor the health of the contestants, and there have been remarkably few injuries on the set for such big people who are obviously not used to physical exercise.

Finally, in almost every episode I've seen (contrived or not is difficult to say), someone breaks down emotionally and hits on some of the root causes of their obesity, often rooted in the depression you speak of. To a large extent, it's addressing this that allows the person to move forward and self-motivate.

The dangers, IMO, lie mostly in people getting inspired to try this on their own, without the qualified medical and professional help that the show obviously has as a resource. Or in heading to the local gym and expecting the same kind of knowledge base in a trainer who may have had vastly less experience and training in obesity related issues. These are far more likely to lead people to serious injuries than the show.

On the other hand, when you get that large, there are usually some serious health problems (diabetes, heart conditions, joint issues, and so on) already going on that may just end up killing you if you don't do something about them. Personally, I think the inspiration to get up and do something is worth more than the potential risks of injury from someone doing it wrong.

Probably one of the best posts I've read so far! These are some of the very points that I tried to make earlier. Every single person there, has the same issue.....being over weight. While they're all competing against each other, there is a huge amount of teamwork with all involved. I"m sure theres quite a bit going on behind the scenes that we dont see.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Thanks Brian. A few more questions for you. :)

1) What are your thoughts on Bob?

2) Are Jillians creds. UTD now? If so, then I'd say theres no issue. If they are not UTD, then how could a show go on giving the impression that she's a legit trainer? Wouldn't that be like me going to work as a mechanic at a car dealership....but not knowing a clue about cars?

I am under the impression from other trainers that her credentials are not up to date. However, that could easily be wrong and fixed in a heart beat.

As for Bob I do not think anyone has an issue with him professionally with credentials.

What get's most of the trainers that I have talked to riled is some of the things that they have these incredibly over weight people do. Such as jumping up or down off of podiums/blocks. (depth jumps) That considering the enormous weight coming down on the knees is very risky. Incorrect lifting or kettle bell lifting form. There are several others but I do not have the time to get into them.


It is a similar situation to Ceasar Milano the "Dog Whisperer". Several dog trainers that I know cringe at his approach on certain things. They do not necessarily have respect for how he does things.

I imagine it is similar to when you or I watch a show and they have martial arts in them and we say oh that is terrible or my wife the doctor watches a medical show and laughs and say's that is ridiculous. Experts in their field rarely like a show on TV that is or has a lot of producer involvement. In other words they have to be near perfect for us to give them a thumbs up!

Having said all the above "The Biggest Loser" and the "Dog Whisperer" are great entertainment! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Ken Morgan]

Western culture is not the problem. The break down of western culture is the problem.
Sean

OK, so no one else has bitten yet, so I will….what specific breakdown in western civilization are you talking about?

[MJS]

I am under the impression from other trainers that her credentials are not up to date. However, that could easily be wrong and fixed in a heart beat.

As for Bob I do not think anyone has an issue with him professionally with credentials.

What get's most of the trainers that I have talked to riled is some of the things that they have these incredibly over weight people do. Such as jumping up or down off of podiums/blocks. (depth jumps) That considering the enormous weight coming down on the knees is very risky. Incorrect lifting or kettle bell lifting form. There are several others but I do not have the time to get into them.

Thanks Brian. :) Like I said, my wife and I watch the show weekly and I've said the same thing to her...how the hell can someone, who weighs 400+lbs, who only exercises by lifting fork to mouth and sits on their rear, possibly run a half marathon, do 500 steps on a stepper, etc.? I dont know...its certainly crazy. LOL. But then again, one would think....and hope...that if something was that bad, why isn't it being addressed?



It is a similar situation to Ceasar Milano the "Dog Whisperer". Several dog trainers that I know cringe at his approach on certain things. They do not necessarily have respect for how he does things.

When I got my dog, a German Shepherd/Husky mix, I worked with 2 different trainers. Both had their own unique way of working with me and the dog. I'll watch Cesar from time to time as well. Comparing my trainers methods to his....well, lets say there were differences. :) There were things that were the same, to a point, but yeah, I've heard people complain about him as well. Is he right? Are the other 2 trainers right? Dont know...I'm not a trainer. LOL. But I will say that I've employed the methods that they taught me, and the dog has improved. Of course, I've had him for 6yrs, so God, I'd hope he'd improve. LOL. I will say though that Cesar does make some good points about the pack leader stuff.


I imagine it is similar to when you or I watch a show and they have martial arts in them and we say oh that is terrible or my wife the doctor watches a medical show and laughs and say's that is ridiculous. Experts in their field rarely like a show on TV that is or has a lot of producer involvement. In other words they have to be near perfect for us to give them a thumbs up!

Having said all the above "The Biggest Loser" and the "Dog Whisperer" are great entertainment! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

Exactly! :)

[Touch Of Death]

OK, so no one else has bitten yet, so I will….what specific breakdown in western civilization are you talking about?
I remember a few quotes, "Patience is a virtue", "Good things come to those who wait" being western wisdoms; So, the desire to have it all right now would be a sign of impatience; hence, its a break down.
sean

[Flying Crane]

I think a big point of the show is to get people to realize that they are usually capable of much more than they think they are.

that's been a big beef of mine for a long time. I believe that most people simply don't believe they are capable of much, and they live up to that expectation quite nicely.

We are constantly conditioned to believe that we can only be mediocre. We are told, well once you reach X age, you gotta start being careful, you are gonna have THIS and THAT problem, your health could suffer if you so much as walk down the street.. I call Bull-****. How would we feel, what would we believe we could accomplish, if we didn't keep track of age?

Getting people off the couch and getting them to recognize their own potential is a huge step, and that's what the show does. People who got so out of shape that they can't even walk around the block without getting winded, and then getting them eventually to be able to run a half marathon, it speaks to the potential that we all have in us.

If you want it badly enough, you can do it, you can make it happen. You may need guidance, if you have no experience with something you need to get educated to make sure you do it right and don't injure yourself, you need to know how to monitor your progress and avoid injury. But you can do it.

Societally, we need to reject the notion that we can only be mediocre, and start finding out what we can accomplish.

In a small way, I've had this discovery myself. I've always been motivated when it comes to training. I don't need someone else pushing me to train. A year and a half ago I was given the opportunity to train with my sigung. Sifu took me to meet him, and sigung agreed to let me join his training sessions. It was something I had hoped for, for years. I was ecstatic. But Sigung holds sessions from 9:00 pm to Midnight. The problem is, I'm not a good late night person. I'm a morning person. But I really wanted to train with him. So I figured out how to make it work for me, and I do it. I love it. I feel like I'm in a Shaw Brothers movie, trainining in the dark in his back yard where nobody else can see us. It was a small step, but I had to move outside of my comfort zone, to do this. I wanted to bad enough to do so.

[Nomad]

I am under the impression from other trainers that her credentials are not up to date. However, that could easily be wrong and fixed in a heart beat.

As for Bob I do not think anyone has an issue with him professionally with credentials.

What get's most of the trainers that I have talked to riled is some of the things that they have these incredibly over weight people do. Such as jumping up or down off of podiums/blocks. (depth jumps) That considering the enormous weight coming down on the knees is very risky. Incorrect lifting or kettle bell lifting form. There are several others but I do not have the time to get into them.


It is a similar situation to Ceasar Milano the "Dog Whisperer". Several dog trainers that I know cringe at his approach on certain things. They do not necessarily have respect for how he does things.

I imagine it is similar to when you or I watch a show and they have martial arts in them and we say oh that is terrible or my wife the doctor watches a medical show and laughs and say's that is ridiculous. Experts in their field rarely like a show on TV that is or has a lot of producer involvement. In other words they have to be near perfect for us to give them a thumbs up!

Having said all the above "The Biggest Loser" and the "Dog Whisperer" are great entertainment! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

How often do any "experts" in their field agree with one another? In the example of dog training, there are many different training methods out there, most of which are likely to produce results. Which is the best? That probably depends on which trainer you're talking to at the time.

The same goes with personal trainers, especially if they've been trained under different systems with different approaches. Is the biggest loser methodology the "best" way? It depends on how you measure it. They certainly do get dramatic results from the majority of the people on the show, and I haven't heard many reports of injuries sustained while under their supervision over the last several seasons.

Quick. Which is the best martial art? ;) How many martial artists look at the way someone in another style throws a basic technique, and pick apart the details? While the mechanics are undoubtedly important, it's been shown that there are multiple variations in form which also work.

[Carol]

I think a big point of the show is to get people to realize that they are usually capable of much more than they think they are.

that's been a big beef of mine for a long time. I believe that most people simply don't believe they are capable of much, and they live up to that expectation quite nicely.

We are constantly conditioned to believe that we can only be mediocre. We are told, well once you reach X age, you gotta start being careful, you are gonna have THIS and THAT problem, your health could suffer if you so much as walk down the street.. I call Bull-****. How would we feel, what would we believe we could accomplish, if we didn't keep track of age?


I agree.

Personally, I've found that the most important factor of an exercise program is sticking with it. However, I don't think anyone can be forced or goaded in to sticking to an exercise program.

One factor is enjoyment. Maybe people enjoy trotting endlessly on a treadmill...my hat is off to them if they do. I find working out at the gym to be maddeningly tedious.

Another factor is how it fits your life. If a person wants to do (say) Parkour...and enrolls in a Parkour class...only to find that their family routine gets tossed on its head because now its hardly ever possible to (say) eat together as a family....is this really a benefit? Of if the class suddenly makes one's commute or daycare/aftercare obligations far more complicated...putting additional pressure on one's life...is this really a benefit?

To me it seems that the people that have been the most successful with not only getting active but STAYING active have managed to do it by finding something they love, in a way that fits their life. The impetus that actually got me in to a martial arts school for the first time was because I needed something to do during my mandated lunch break...and hoped that such an activity would also be something I could skip the rush hour traffic. I gotta say...doing Kenpo instead of staring at the cafeteria walls for an hour, was fun...but doing Kenpo instead of sitting on a congested interstate was bloody awesome!! http://www.nbproducties.nl/smilies/headbang.gif

What is right for another person? Maybe it is working out of the gym, with its flexible hours and variety of exercise programs. Or falling in love with TKD and going to class 4-5 nights a week. Or choosing to commute on a bike. Or taking dance lessons and dancing a few days a week. For me, its hiking or photography. Photography doesn't sound like a strenuous hobby, but on my last cityscape/architecture shot I did, I mapped the route I took and realized that over the course of the shoot, I had walked about 5 miles. That's a respectable exercise, even with the occasional stops to shoot my subjects. Either way, I think adults are more likely to do something if that something doesn't stress them out.

A final thought, is the perception is that being overweight automatically equates to being out of shape. An overweight person can be very active and have good cardio fitness. I'm also a bit tired of the people that denigrate people simply for being overweight. Personally I don't find scorn to be particularly motivating, but the people that have reached out a hand and say "maybe we can work towards our goals together" have been the people that have literally changed my life. I hope I returned the favor by reaching out for their hand and trying and matching their enthusiasm.

I have never seen the show the Biggest Loser. But personally? While I think, realistically, sticking with an exercise program takes a bit more than "just do it", it doesn't take a lot more. It certainly doesn't take a personal stalff and a TV Production. A lot can be gained with a little motivation, a little creativity, and a dose of pragmatism. Once you discover what you love to do - whatever that is - it will become very hard for you to quit. :D :D

[Brian R. VanCise]

How often do any "experts" in their field agree with one another? In the example of dog training, there are many different training methods out there, most of which are likely to produce results. Which is the best? That probably depends on which trainer you're talking to at the time.

The same goes with personal trainers, especially if they've been trained under different systems with different approaches. Is the biggest loser methodology the "best" way? It depends on how you measure it. They certainly do get dramatic results from the majority of the people on the show, and I haven't heard many reports of injuries sustained while under their supervision over the last several seasons.

Quick. Which is the best martial art? ;) How many martial artists look at the way someone in another style throws a basic technique, and pick apart the details? While the mechanics are undoubtedly important, it's been shown that there are multiple variations in form which also work.

Well in general many "experts" will disagree in regards to many different things. Yet, quite often they will agree to a tee when they see someone doing some thing dangerous or if someone claims to be an expert and they simply are not. We have the same thing here in the Martial Arts world. Very few people take Ashida Kim, Frank Dux and a myriad of other people seriously. Now, do not think I am painting Jillian or Ceasar in that light but....... I have been in a room with other professionals in those areas where they did! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Cirdan]

Experts, meh. You don`t have to be an expert to loose weight, it is a very simple matter of exercising and eating reasonably well. You just need to decide to DO it and change your lifestyle. And you don`t have to do 30km runs, just walking a lot is enough. I lost 20kg over 10 weeks just by walking every day and my diet wasn`t even strict, just ate a little less and cut out the worst things like chips and chocolate. I still got some padding around my stomach but I intend to keep it, I don`t need a sixpack to feel good about myself. Having a little fat can actually be healthy.

Treating fat people like they are fragile beings who need a team of specialists to improve their lives is complete BS. Same with older people, they can still benefit immensely by training.

And yes I use the word fat, F-A-T. The first step is to stop making excuses.

[Nomad]

Experts, meh. You don`t have to be an expert to loose weight, it is a very simple matter of exercising and eating reasonably well. You just need to decide to DO it and change your lifestyle. And you don`t have to do 30km runs, just walking a lot is enough. I lost 20kg over 10 weeks just by walking every day and my diet wasn`t even strict, just ate a little less and cut out the worst things like chips and chocolate. I still got some padding around my stomach but I intend to keep it, I don`t need a sixpack to feel good about myself. Having a little fat can actually be healthy.

Treating fat people like they are fragile beings who need a team of specialists to improve their lives is complete BS. Same with older people, they can still benefit immensely by training.

And yes I use the word fat, F-A-T. The first step is to stop making excuses.

While I agree in principle with most of your post, I do think that if you've let yourself get to 450 lbs (as opposed to even 50 lbs or so overweight), you probably do need help to even start moving in the right direction. Many people in that particular boat have completely given up, and have no confidence that they can make a difference. One of the things the show gives them is the knowledge that they ARE in control, and can in fact reach their goals.

Breaking old habits is definitely not an easy thing.

[ATC]

Losing weight is simple. Only need to understand a 2 step process.

1. Eat less
2. Move more

That is it. If you do those two simple things you will lose weight. Look at any weight loss program and they all contain the same simple facts. Eat less and move more.

That is not a joke but true. I really can't understand why people make it harder that what it really is.

[granfire]

Losing weight is simple. Only need to understand a 2 step process.

1. Eat less
2. Move more

That is it. If you do those two simple things you will lose weight. Look at any weight loss program and they all contain the same simple facts. Eat less and move more.

That is not a joke but true. I really can't understand why people make it harder that what it really is.


It involves 2 things:
Movement and self control.

[Cirdan]

While I agree in principle with most of your post, I do think that if you've let yourself get to 450 lbs (as opposed to even 50 lbs or so overweight), you probably do need help to even start moving in the right direction. Many people in that particular boat have completely given up, and have no confidence that they can make a difference. One of the things the show gives them is the knowledge that they ARE in control, and can in fact reach their goals.

Breaking old habits is definitely not an easy thing.

If you are 450 lbs the weight is going to kill you. A person who used to train at our dojo was 500 lbs when the doctor told him he would die within a few years like that. Last time I saw him he`d lost over 120 pounds. Still a long way yo go but he actually looked good.

He was in control the whole time, he just didn`t chose to do anything about it until death looked him in the eye. While there are a few who need medical help or must be protected from themselves, the rest of us must simply accept responsibility for our own physical shape.

I was not critizising the show if you got that impression. Only watched it once or twice and it wasn`t that bad. If it can motivate people to loose weight, then good.