My wife and I get to enjoy a special treat next month when we will fly to Japan to visit with our son and his family. He is a Naval Officer stationed at Atsugi NAF just southwest of Tokyo. It will be very special for the wife to see the three grand kids and Japan for the first time, and me returning after over 40 years.

My son wants to take me over to the Kodokan for a visit. It was there that I earned shodan under supervision of Kotani sensei (last Kodokan Judo 10th dan alive) in 1960. Wow, that was a while back! It seems like just a few years ago in some weird way! Anyway, it would be nice to lose twenty years so I could work out, but this old fart will not do so.

Also I have Japanese astronomy colleagues to visit – some I have met with and some not. They always treat us like royalty and I am the red carpit will roll out again. Several consider me a Ph.D, like it or not – I only finished an electrical engineering degree and stopped that foolish school business in my early 30’s. But my mail is addressed to Dr. J.D. Beish and that they will not change!

At any rate it will be an experience. My son was supposed to come here to visit, but the cost would have been prohibitive given the three kids and a wife and him qand with visits to both sets of grandmas and grandpas. So is getting off cheaper by paying our way over there! Nice, huh?

It will be great to see them and also see the great hall where I enjoyed so much Judo in my younger years. What is it they say – “you can take a kid from Judo, bit you can’t take Judo away for the kid“ :-)

How wonderful? Do you still speak any Japanese?

Have a safe trip, Jeff! Is the Kodokan even in the same building from 1960?

Cthulhu

Oh yeah...have fun, too!

Even after all those years I still remember a little conversational Japanese. I was quite fluent then, plus all the subsequent years teaching Judo (partly in Japanese) of course I retain much of that also. At one time I cold speak Japanese, German and a little English :)

The new Kodokan was opened in 1959. I took my batsugan for shodan at the old Kodokan. That is now a boxing gym. It was an old wooden building that somehow survived the war (I think). I only have a few photos of my time there and they are slides that have turned reddish yellow. It was a brand new place then.

Jeff

Our trip to Japan was enjoyable. My son, wife, and oldest grandson took several trains from Atsugi NAF to downtown Tokyo and after asking several people finally found the Kodokan. It was nestled in between skyscrapers and was hard to find. The last time I was there it was all by itself next to a train track. Of course, that was over four decades of progress ago.

We went down stairs to eat, they FAQ’ed in a menu in English :-), then we went visiting the museum and some offices where I talked with some old Judo players. There is a viewing gallery overlooking the main floor. It had changed a little, but still appeared the same except for the color of the tatami covering floor. I remember them just being a straw colored. Also, I could not find the workout and testing room where I tested for shodan, but it was probably right in my path and being an old fart I just couldn’t see it. Actually, we used the main workout floor (dojo) for the contesting. Then you had to defeat at least six Judoka of the same or higher rank as you were, in a contest referred to as batsugan (if that is the proper way to spell it). Anyway, after that exciting blood sport we had to perform some kata and other stuff in a testing area. Then you paid like $2 for a certificate and license in Judo as a beginner (1st dan) and some of us American/European types would get one with some English stuff on it. I joined the Kodokan and became a life member after some years. I showed my LM card to the guy running the museum and we had a great time chattering with each other about the good old days. The good old days appeared to all but gone there, as well as here.

I visited my son’s Judo class somewhere near the Navy base and met some very nice Judoka, several were Americans with Japanese parents and so on, and some locals. While I wanted to workout or begin teaching real bad I bit my lip and sat by watching. IMHO they could have benefited from some of the “old ways” that still remains within my habitual mind and their Judo was not quite up to what my memory says was all that great. Neither did I think the Judo at the Kodokan was all that great either, but I must remember that most of them were high school students (all but two were yundasha) and memories always feel better in one’s own mind than what actually was.

My astronomer friends took us for a tour of Yokohama, an observatory there, to eat lunch where I gave them a lecture on Mars in a nice room upstairs in this huge building – then to China Town for an eight course dinner (sat on the floor) and plenty of beer and saki. Hey, it must have cost them a small fortune since a beer in Japan costs $9 in our money! Yes, if you plan to visit Japan being okani, plenty of it. If that is the correct spelling then “okani” is money.

Japan is a great place to visit – but I would not want to live there. Somewhere we read that the population of Japan is near 136-million! Hey, that’s 48% of the population of the USA and only 4% the square area of the USA!!! Sardines have more room!

Originally posted by jeffbeish

Then you paid like $2 for a certificate and license in Judo as a beginner (1st dan)

I enjoyed your travelogue--going to China Town in Japan!--but this part is my favorite. A black belt is a beginner--not the attitude you find here in the States it seems.

Welcome back!

Mmmmm...China Town. I've got to say, Yokohama's China Town is one of my favorite places to eat. Last time we went, my sister-in-law and her husband took us to this little hole-in-the-wall restaurant that turned out to have quite possibly the best Chinese food I've ever eaten outside of Hong Kong and Singapore.

Thanks for posting about your trip. It was interesting to hear how things have changed from what you remembered.

Arnisador,

I attempted to translate and find the word(s) sho-dan on my old Kodokan license and it is just too hard for me now. I used to read all that chicken scratching, but that is what it looks like to me now :D The best I came up with was that “sho” means sprit, vitality, or essence,” but the two symbols must be taken in context so I may be off base. I was taught that they did not use the word, ICHI (Japanese for one) to define 1st dan because the rank or grade meant, ”to begin to learn.” Something like, now that you have been shown all the techniques of Judo it is time now to learn Judo. The Way. Gentle Way and so on. You can’t just literilly translate this stuff because it even confuses us old guys :)

Another distinction is the 4th dan grade. It is not referred to as SHI-dan or YON-dan (some do but they are incorrect) because that is the first grade in the intermediate master grades; yodan and godan and they use the word YO for some reason I can’t remember. The first set, if you will, is the basic or lower grade group; shodan, nidan, sandan. The grades from 5th dan and below are allowed to wear a black obi or belt. Then the next set or group is rokudan, shchidan, and hachidan who can wear a red and white obi (usually for ceremony) and the last two, kudan and judan, may wear a red belt indicating “master” I think. No one ever explained to me what a “master” was since some refer to anyone who is allowed to wear a black belt is a “master.” The terms may not fit our version of the definition of what a master is. All I remember is that SHODAN was the beginning of our learning experience in Judo, nidan through godan were earned the hard way and any rank above that was more of less given for political reasons (service, old age, etc.). Hope that confused you like it did me :)


Kumaisan,

The name of the Chinese Restaurant is Haku-Raku-Ten. It appeared to be one of the more expensive places, but we saw a lot of fancy places in China Town. My family was guests of a group of Japanese astronomers that I have corresponded with for three decades but never met in person. They must have spent bookoo okani because we drank several beers each and at least one bottle of expensive Chinese Saki (big bucks). The eight-course meal was excellent and it was the first "sit-on-the-floor" meal that I had enjoyed for some four decades. I lived in Japan then Okinawa for two years, so was familiar with the customs and such things. We also toured Kanagawa Prefectural Youth Centre (KYC) astronomical observatory in Yokohama. We must have taken at least four taxi rides here and there in Tokyo and Yokohama -- on their dime! Guess they make much-o Yen over there. :D

Arnisador, the yen to dollar exchange then was 360 yen to one dollar. So, things were cheaper then. I think we paid 50 cents a day to sleep over and study at the Kodokan back then. I'm not sure what the Air Force paid them but I attended a class in combative measures than lasted several weeks at the Kodokan and then stayed around a few more weeks for advanced study. That is when I made shodan. We would eat rice and sushi down stairs for a dime or two, all you cold stuff in your face. When I received my certificate they wanted about 720 yen for it, handling material costs for he paper and ink I would guess. I is a nice looking thing that I sill hang on my office wall..

Maybe a good definition:

SHODAN (1st dan or degree black belt) indicates that the student is sincere in following Judo (gentle way). It is the first serious step on an endless path of discovery and inquiry.

Originally posted by jeffbeish

I'm not sure what the Air Force paid them but I attended a class in combative measures than lasted several weeks at the Kodokan and then stayed around a few more weeks for advanced study.

I didn't realize the Air Force was using Japanese nationals for instruction then, even as consultants!

All these details are fascinating. Thanks!

The USAF began sending airman to the Kodokan in 1954 for combative mesaures (hand-to-hand combat) training so we could train the SAC bomber crews in survival fitness, etc. Judo classes were a byproduct of that effort and it just grew onward. We began sometime in the 1950's with a loose association of several groups in the Air Force an dwe then formed the Air Force Judo Associaiton (mostly SAC) then the Armed Forces Judo Assoc. and finally the US Judo Assoc. Good old days. You may find some of this info on the Kodokan web page, long since changed of course, but similar stuff.

Lots of people went through the classes and most of them are at room temperature today.

When I referred to the rank paper issued to us for black belt grades by the Kodokan you may be interested in what I can read from it. The special rank certificates we received in those days were among the first Kodokan Judo rank papers issued in both Japanese and in English. It is a nice looking certificate with several stamps by individual officials of the Kodokan, hand-written in Japanese above the English inset. The inset on mine states:


Diploma

Mr. Jeffrey D. Beish
is herewith licensed to rank in the FIRST Grade of
the Kodokan Judo of Japanese origin, in recognition
of the great progress that he has made by his diligent
study of the art.
We expect him to endeavour for further progress
In the future.

Tokyo: September 28, 1961

Risei KANO
President of the Kodokan Judo Institute


In those days, maybe today, we were issued similar certificates for teaching Judo, Judo kata, etc., and other stuff I never achieved. I have been a yodan, or 4th dan, for many years and in Japan that is the first grade that is allowed to teach Judo – usually as an assistant to sensei. In this country I have seen Judoka as low as sankyu teaching Judo classes. That is because of all the pseudo-politics that prevailed in American Judo now for the past 50 years whereby the old governing body of Judo discriminated against anyone who was not of Japanese or Korean origin. That is a fact, pure and simple, and us old guys still carry that burden in ourselves. In other words, the big shots in the Federation (JBBF) did everything they could to hold back us European type Judoka in promotions.

Well, some of us were promoted in Japan by our sensei who cared for us and in my case, since I was a life member of the Kodokan, my sensei just submitted my promotions through the Kodokan. Don’t need some so-called American Judoka or Federation bully group pulling any tricks on me.

If you sense some hostility in my words then you are right, think of this; I still feel towards that Judo governing body as I do about those scum who flew into the Twin Towers in New York -- but our towers was American Judo. But, who remembers or even cares now? :o

When I left Japan in the mid-80's, the yen rate was hovering around 200 yen/dollar. 2000yen was roughly $10. Almost half that, now.

Hey, Jeff...what do you think of the new Hubble pics? (I know, OT...sue me :))

Cthulhu

I do review Hubble images from time to time, but Mars is my interest and the other stuff, while interesting, is really more refined old stuff. Since setting up my mid-sized telescope (12.5-inch f/7 Newtonian) I used it for viewing Mars this past year and some this year, but moved it around back and have not used it since. I will set up my 16-inch f/7 soon.

I do like to observe dark sky objects; however, Monday morning at 2 a.m. I got up for the mid-sleep pause to the bathroom and heard a dog barking, so I walked in the living room to take a look out front. Behold :eek: , there was the huge black bear standing in my driveway staring at me! Since my wife has never seen one in the “wild” I got her up, she went :rofl: and then I walked out front and yelled at the thing to MOVE IT! No, I did not go far from my front door – I was raised in the Tennessee Hills and know bear (the ancient art of respect for wild beasts). It was near full Moon and that huge beast was stood at least 42 inches on all fours. 300+ pounder. He snorted at me and turned and walked across the street and into the bush.

In time I will begin to view the heavens again because my sky here in very dark. So dark in fact that a black bears would be hard to see as theose snealy beasts go for the kill! :D

Heh. Reminds me of the story of an astronomer (can't remember who...someone famous), who went out of the dome during a run during the winter. In the darkness, he heard what he thought was a large dog next to him so he playfully petted it. Come daylight, they found mountain lion tracks in the snow where he had been standing. :)

My first interest was planetary astronomy, after sending for prints from Pioneer and Voyager when I was a wee lad. However, deep sky objects are always fun to look at! :D

Cthulhu

er...then I got interested in martial arts. Yeah. That's an effective way to get back on topic. Ahem.

The information on the old diploma is neat. There's a thread in the General forum now that's wandered into whether or not black belt is really a "beginner" or an expert. This shows what the judoka thought about that!

I lookd in General but couldn't find that particualr thread. Could you point this old dude to it please?

The thread wandered a bit, so you wouldn't have been able to recognize it by its title:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1804&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Anyone know any Judo players in Texas?

http://www.martialtalk.com/images/2kodokan.jpg

Left a friend, Preston Pugh (nidan) standing by statue of Kano at Kodokan in 1961. Right me by stature in March 2002. Old fart returns!

A statue of Jigaro Kano! It's obvious that there would be one but I hadn't thought about it before.

His statue is hard to find now since when I looked a truck and a van were parked right up against it blocking it from the street view. Parking in Tokyo is at a premium! Anyway, we came back after eating in the Italian restaurant down stairs and the autos wee gone so I could get a picture of me next to it.

The first time I was in that Kodokan, the old one is now a boxing gym, it was right after it was finished in 1959. Only the railroad tracks were close by then. Now it is lost within all the skyscrapers. Even they have added several more floors to the Kodokan since I was there last. :mad: :D Just kidding

I did notice they moved the plaque that says "Kodokan Judo Imnstitute," in Japanese, to behind Kano.

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/images/judoteam.jpg

Wow, old stuff. In the attached image is an old newspaper photo taken of the 1962 313th Air Div Judo team from Okianwa ready to go to Japan. I am standing to the far left.

In right image it's me again but this time I'm only 19 years old! The photo was taken outside the Naha AB Gym Judo dojo. Can a person actually have been that young? :D

:asian:

You were lucky to have started so early! Neat!

Lucky? :) Life past me like a blink of the eye. I was 12 when I first learned falling ways and Ogoshi. I am 62 now. It's like my mind went from kuzushi (12 - 32) then drive (32 - 42) and hen excute (52-62) Ogoshi - it seems lkike it went that fast. :asian:

After a few years in the Air Force I managed to get my undergraduate degree in electrical engineering, then got out after eight years and went to work with Link Aviation (flight simulators) as a field engineer. Then after finishing my BSEE I learned to spell errectreektical engineer and was one for 35 more years. From 1973 on I have been also engaged in scientific research as a planetary astronomer/observer/author and from all that experience learned how to research most anything else. It’s like a compulsive hobby to look into the nature of everything.

People-study is also a hobby and I found over the years that Martial Arts people are a study for sure. Anyway, so many of the old gang is dying off now and it seems like they are just forgotten. From my association in astronomy, where everyone who works in the field ends up in some history book. It seems that the only real compensation for working in astronomical research is getting your name in print because the pay is lousy. That is why so many of us are either engineers or doctors. That pays well and supports our weird hobbies – like Judo and astronomy.

Jigoro Kano, founder of Kodokan Judo, wrote about the many facets of Judo and he seemed to be telling us that there is a measure of scientific method in practicing Judo. The more advanced study in Judo, i.e., kata, physical fitness, self-defense, etc., is based on sound scientific methods, even though it borders on pseudo science as all human nature study is. When we think about how easy we humans accomplish certain tasks in life and then try to explain it then the mystery begins. Since no two people are the same this study is difficult at best. We humans tend to “cook” the books when subjective elements are introduced into the equation. In other words, human nature study such as psychology and even Judo techniques are too close to being subjective that we just go along with much we are told about it all.

Maybe as we grow older we can get though some of the BS and see our Judo study for what it is – hard work! This hard work then can be watched, emulated by others, and then even duplicated to some extent. In some ways that too is scientific method.

So, from the 50 years since I began Judo and having a scientific background I may be able to cut through t he fog enough to just think I understand it all. Hum, old saying coming up: "The fog is so fine that you can't hold it in your hands, yet it can hide a mountain.” (In Japanese it loosely translated into: “fukai kiri eme mo motenai kaku reru daizan”)

http://www.martialtalk.com/images/PhilMeDon.jpg

The blond kid in front is my son and is now 36 years old, in the Navy for nearly 15 years and a Naval Lieutenant! The two older guys actually had dark hair in 1974 when this photo was taken! Phil Porter on left and me right. Good old days gone by.

Amazing! Did your son stick with it?

Did you compete? Have you ever used Judo in a self-defense situation?

He was in Judo from the age of five until he finished high school. After college he joined the Navy and worked out sometimes abroad ship and at some of the bases he was stationed at. Now he lives in Japan and is busy with his Master's program, but does work out occasionally off base. He was a good competitor in his teens, but like any other red blooded American teenager, he gave Judo up for girls. He is 36 now, married with three kids, one does Judo.

I started competing after joining the Air Force in 1959. Before that there was so little Judo where I lived it wasn't practical to have tournaments. While living in Japan and Okinawa I attended shiai (contest) practically ever week for two years and occasionally Air Force tournaments. In 1960, '61, and '62 I went from Okinawa to Japan in big AF shiai. Only done good in 1961 when I messed up and won the 5th AF (Yakoda, JP), PACAF (Hawaii), then All-AF (USA) 140-pound class. I stopped competing in 1965.

Self-defense yes. In 1961 the AF sent me to the Kodokan for a five-week Combative Measures Instructors school. So, I taught it for decades. I found it more practical to defend myself on rare occasions with jujitsu/Judo techniques rather than use karate. It was a lot safer for the other dude. Once after downing too many beers a nasty guy took exception to me talking with a young lady and hit me in the forehead with a beer bottle. Well, I think it is called uraken in Japanese, but I hit the guy in the mouth wit ha back-fist that took out most of his front teeth, broke his jaw. Before the blood from the forehead cut blinded me I hit him again with something and he went down. Needless to say we left in a hurry before the cops got us. Nasty stuff that karate, especially when you instinctively react to a situation - without restraint.

Four clubs in the 1970's in Miami. Two were 150+ members and two were 50+ members. Made an old man out of me managing all those kids!

Originally posted by jeffbeish

Four clubs in the 1970's in Miami. Two were 150+ members and two were 50+ members.

That's incredible! A recent issue of NAPMA (www.napma.com)'s magazine discusses the steady decline of Judo from its peak in the 1960s--numbers like that really drive it home. You only find that at TKD schools nowadays, it seems!

Ah, here is that issue, with some online articles:
http://www.napma.com/index.cfm?CFID=221265&fuseaction=magazine.535&pageid=1173

Yeah, I assisted Robby Robinson at Bergstrom AFB, in the mid-1960's and we won the largest Judo club in the world award two years in a row. Someone on Guam beat us out the third year. Can't remember how many we had, but we ran two kids classes, twice a week and two senior classes four nights a week, and a police class on the weekends. I think we ran Judo and kenpo class six days a week. I was also at the Kittyhawk club (Ohio) in 1968-69 and they had hundreds of members. I had at least a hundred kids on the mat twice during the week and on Saturday.

Even in the 1970's clubs in Miami had hundreds of members. I still have several Bronze Club Charter thingies on the wall for 150 members each. It seemed to go down hill in the 1980’s. Too many lawsuits, lost friendships and down right hatred amongst Judo organizations.

I just faded away like most old Judo sensei or coaches as some call us. Judo politics became the in thing. I rank politicians down about at the same level as swamp slime.

You mentioned training lots of kids when you were teaching. I've got a question for you, if you don't mind. I'm teaching my 12 year old son a bit of grappling (BJJ, though I studied Judo for a year and a half when I was in college and so I tend to do a bit more stand-up as part of it). He recently got fairly extensive orthodontia and will have it for another two years. Any tips on not cutting his mouth up while we train?

Get him a mouthpiece like boxers use. Ask the orthodontist for a mouth protector – it only costs money .:D Many of the kids I taught had them, but I never thought about it much – the parent took care of that .:D Just be careful. One thing people forget is that Martial Arts, Judo among them, it that we learnd to deal with adversity. The Marine corp teaches their grunts to deal with it.

Well, got to run to Sebring for the big fireworks show.

:p

I hadn't found this thread befor today Jeff your views on how Judo has change would be welcomed. Do you think that the level of training and the intensity are lacking now or is it that in order to compet with the ranks and egos in other arts that grading is now not as hard.

What was the biggest difference that you noticed in the practice area?

Shadow:asian:

Ego had a lot to do with it. I can't really say if the training is as intense now as back in years past. I haven't been on the mat in over ten years, so I am not current with the happenings in Judo.

It is hard to say what he difference is. The great names in American Judo that I have posted here still are involved in some way. Jim Bregman is back as president of the USJA and was touring with George Harris recently. I occasionally read-in the Judo list or e-mail with some Judo friends but news of Judo events are few. It just didn’t work out like many of us thought it would. Of course, some of the major players of the past are gone now, so the news of the old days begin to slip away.

The loss of people that takes place over the year is one of things we incounter as we grow older, Looking for the names we knew and not finding them was always a surprise to me. Trying to figure out who this new (to me) kid is and who he studied from is sometimes confuseing but it dose lead us back to the roots often. I guess its the sam in all the Martial Arts.

Do you feel that Judo was hurt by the Kodokan trying to keep such tight grip on what was allowed and promotons?

Shadow:asian:

IMO it was not the Kodokan’s problem or fault, it was the establishment nisei (2nd generation Japanese-Americans) Judo bosses that ran the Judo Black Belt Federation of the past. Prior to the 1950’s only a few non-Japanese-Americans practiced Judo. In t he early 1950’s more and more non-Japanese-Americans were exposed to Judo either from their military experience or living in areas where Judo was popular.

Many of us were involved in Judo from being stationed in the Far East in the military and learned at the Kodokan and even better Judo dojos and were promoted into the black belt ranks early in life. Many of the military people I know came back from the Far East in the sandan or yodan ranks, moist of us were shodan or nidan. That is where we all stayed for decades because the JBBF would never allow us to advance. They used the excuse that we did not have the skills, etc., and more bovine excrement, so we had a big falling out. Plus, when the Air Force Judo Association encompassed the whole military and we became the Armed Forces Judo Association (AFJA), we had the largest yudanshakai in the JBBF, but our votes did not count wit the same weight as the nisei populated yudanshakai. Even thought many of the AFJA were nisei and their sons, we were still second rate citizens.

I always managed to secure a Kodokan tank license (certificate) because I knew some higher-ranking Kodokan Judo sensei and just asked them to send me one when I was promoted. The JBF thought they were soul proprietors of rank in the USA, but the Kodokan really had the authority so I just went to them. That’s the good thing about them being the big bosses of rank. Recently while visiting my son at Atsugi NAF, Japan he took us down to the Kodokan to visit. I had not been there in over 40 years so it was a thrill for me for sure. I would have never found it anyway, since all the tall buildings hide it now.

Anyway, when I was talking with the museum curator we discovered that we had been at the Kodokan at the time when it was first opened and I showed him my life membership card. He was surprised that I still had it! He asked what my rank was and if I was licensed by the IJF. Yes, but my certificate had been ruined during hurricane Andrew and I wanted to replace it. We went next door and he had one made for me, I paid something like $10 in yen. No problem GI.

It was okay by me that the Kodokan had sole authority for Judo rank. They took away the JBBF’s authority more than once I am told. It’s all political BS anyway. Everyone pays for the paper so what’s the big deal?

-Mod. Note-

Deleted duplicate post.

Cthulhu
-MT Mod.-

Originally posted by jeffbeish

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/images/judoteam.jpg

Wow, old stuff. In the attached image is an old newspaper photo taken of the 1962 313th Air Div Judo team from Okianwa ready to go to Japan. I am standing to the far left.

In right image it's me again but this time I'm only 19 years old! The photo was taken outside the Naha AB Gym Judo dojo. Can a person actually have been that young? :D

:asian:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DustyMars


See if you can find Preston and Hatch, I am standing at left and in right image I was only 19 years old!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It occurred to me after looking at the image in my previous message, judoteam.jpg, that my generation of staunch Republican conservatives screwed up by not getting more involved in the “civil right” movement. This photo was taken of a bunch of military Judo players who treated each other like brothers and for years afterward, during the early 1960’s. Our life in Judo taught us more than just techniques – like welfare and benefit for all – something many other Martian Arts do not do. One may wonder what a different it would have made if some of us would have stood up and kicked some establishment political butt back then. The way of the world.

Old saying cometh forth: "I choose the path of my conscious." (Meaning: From birth you are given many paths of life of which to choose; choose one then travel it well, as it passes but once in your life time.” In Japanese: “ ryo shin no michi wo yuku).”

Wow that article was sad! It made me want to go learn Judo
so I could teach it! hehehe The sport aspect of Judo is very
appealing. I wonder what could make it have a resurgence.

To answer that question little historical aspect is in order. I believe in my own experiences and little in reading of the official line. From 1968 and for ten years the USJA membership grew to 25,000, on average, per year. From my records it was apparent we had at least an 80% drop out rate in our clubs. So, from an average member of all my Judo clubs of around 350 I retained 70 students from year to year. USJA and USJF membership in Dade County Florida retention was about 1800 or 2000. Florida usually was # 1 in membership and Dade and Broward Counties were #1 in Florida. So, that is galled “grass roots Judo.”

IMHO if we had continued on the path we set out for in 1968 the USJA and USJF would most likely have sported over 100,000 members by 1988. Also, if the USJA and USJF had swallowed some pride, ego and vanity the USJI would have been unnecessary. Even so, USJI would have added to the total. So, we had the big wars, Judo politics won, and we lost. I’m not saying the USJA was not justified in carrying out lawsuits, etc., it was what happened afterward that killed us all. The war continued. I remember taking with the Federation big shot in the area, a very nice guy who has done great things for Judo, and we agreed that things were out of hand – but we had little to say about it. I totally disagreed with him then and still do. We could have said a lot with our individual grass roots Judo programs like the Texas bunch did – they just worked together for the greater good.

Now, how did this effect out dismal standing in international competition? In Japan, Europe, South America Judo is grass roots and is huge. From the masses come the champions. It was the way the Air Fore did it in the 1950’s and 60’s and it worked fairly well for us, but the United Sates just has too many other interests for the young and Judo organizations would never take lessons for other sports.

One sport in particular that I have followed since a teenager is stock car racing, NASCAR. I grew up around it and watch the sport grow from a bunch of small town crazy bootleggers race on dirt tracks in the late 1940’s until today. The grand stands may have held 100 people then but now even the smaller tracks will hold 70K to 100K people and the big ones over 225,000. You couldn’t ask for a better sport that defines grass roots than NASCAR. Now, today it is the largest spectator sport in the history of the USA. Bar none, each week NASCAR draws more spectators than all other sports combined.

Take TDK or some of the popular Japanese and Okinawan karate, it is big time in this country. Why? Because they had some people who knew how to market their products. Not Judo. No, Judo organizations were too busy feeding their vanity and egos. We missed the boat. Judo is the largest Martial Art activity in the world, bit not here. Check it out.

IMHO Judo will always be in the backwaters of American recreational activities. Except for swimming and wrestling, Judo is absolutely the best exercise that a person can possibly engage in. No other activity I know of utilizes and exercises as much of the body as Judo does. This is of course open to question by some, but I have done a lot of activities in my life and for experience say that with some degree of authority. Yet, even if some may disagree the facts is that Judo will never be popular in this country until every Judo player makes it so, and we will be at or near the bottom of international competition until that happen.

Also, if when Judo players end their competition years they would learn to teach, coach, or whatever, and build up grass root Judo they could help increase popularity. And, practice traditional recreational Judo so they can stay involved. Judo is more than a sport, so when we end our sporting years we can then learn Judo. That is the definition of shodan: SHODAN (1st dan or degree black belt) indicates that the student is sincere in following Judo (gentle way). It is the first serious step on an endless path of discovery and inquiry. Hum, the word "sho" has a lot of meanings!

Actually, it is the first and last step – everything in-between "If one is to polish himself, one must follow a moral path of Morse." (Meaning: To better oneself, one must have stepped over rocks on the Path of Life).” In Japoanese, “O nore wo migaku wo aruku beshi”

Tell me more. These organizations, USJA, USJF, USJI do they still
exist? What is their take on the decline? They must have
addressed this issue at one point or another.

I think that a determined man, could start a "bug" in his own
community. There's pre set marketing ideas that people have
shared for various things. I'll bet that there's a ton of people
that are unaware that:
1) judo has a competitive (sport) aspect to it
2) judo is an olympic sport
3) judo is one of the most popular m.a. activities outside our
own country (I wasn't aware of this myself until you mentioned
it).
4) judo is a safe recreational activity for all ages
And I think if made aware, one could set up a great club or even
commercial school, but even more .. could maybe get schools to
have it as a sport at their school. Local competitions with a big
community awareness could get a lot of people interested. Many
times, sports have been brought in to troubled neighborhoods
and used as it's own vessel to keep children off the streets.


Another question ... how does judo training fair, compared to
other arts? If one were to start studying now .. how long before
he/she could start teaching?

For TKD especially I think they have made a point of marketing it very well--they approached it as a business. It was a vocation as well as an avocation. Why not? It only makes sense, really, not to count on your love of the art.

I note also that (amateur) wrestling has never been so very popular here in the states--it's the first sport to be dropped by a high school or college if there's financial exigency.

Kirk, we did all that and more. It worked. Then we failed.

I haven't been involved with the orgainzations for at least 20 years. As a life member my dues are zero :)

Others here may be able to comment further -- I am just an old has-been.

Originally posted by arnisador

For TKD especially I think they have made a point of marketing it very well--they approached it as a business. It was a vocation as well as an avocation. Why not? It only makes sense, really, not to count on your love of the art.

I note also that (amateur) wrestling has never been so very popular here in the states--it's the first sport to be dropped by a high school or college if there's financial exigency.

Correct-a-mundo on both counts. It is more complicated, but we shall not go there! What many in the American Judo world for got is the following:

The Last Teachings of Professor Jijoro Kano

Judo is the way to use most efficiently one’s mental and physical strengths.

By training, one should discipline and cultivate his body and spirit through the practice offense and defense thereby, to master the essence of this way. And, by dint of these means, it is the ultimate goal of Judo to build oneself up to perfection and benefit the world.

I'll never agree with that last statement. No I don't personaly know you but you have brought the world of JUdo alive through these posts. History is befor my eyes to read and envision.

Please , tell us more of the days you studied and some of those fun and not so fun events that shaped Judo here in the U.S. and elsewhere

Shadow:asian:

It's hard to begin, but you asked for it :). Maybe from the present back. I worked in Time Service Engineering at the U.S. Naval Observatory and retired last year. Was working inside the Beltway for 4.5 years. Really was not interested in Martial Arts then, other than BS'ing about it, but did manage to call or e-mail a few Judo people I knew in the past. Jim Bregman lives in the area and I promised to go up to see him, but was too busy retiring and getting ready to move. Jim as a great Judo competitor, 1964 medal winner, and is now President of the USJA. Talked with George Harris, one of our best Judo competitors of all time and lives close by, but didn't get over to see him. Senator Ben Campbell (R-CO) lives I the area part time and I ran into him on the Memorial Bridge one day. He was riding his "Hog" and I yelled at him. Ben was another of our greatest Judo competitors. I had been in some of Ben's clinics in the past and met him way back in the early 1960's. Not sure if he remember me or not. I was not one of our great competitors.

Before that I lived in Cutler Ridge, Florida (south of Miami) for 25 years and ran several large Judo clubs. That was a great time in the old life, Judo was popular there in the 1970's and early 1980's. Like my predecessors I would start a club, build it up and train a worthy assistant then leave the club to them and move on to a new place. The last club was at Homestead Air Base, about 5 miles from my home. A good friend, Len Vireira, retired from the Air Force and I took over both his Judo clubs at the base sometime in the early 1980's. Lost contact with him, but think he moved up near Patrick AFB near Melbourne.

Homestead turned out to be a bummer. I was given space in the weight room at he base gym and had about 50 students. Some GI's and some from several near by clubs. A few older high school types from a friend's club wanted some rough and tumble Judo so they too joined up with my club there. The other club was for kids at some youth hall on base. By then the Air Force was in full retreat from supporting Judo and it became difficult to teach class without people wandering across the mat area, or at times interfering with us. There was a time when we Judo instructors could close up the whole basketball court for as long as we wanted. That really riled up the tall guys :)

I had two assistants; one was my best female competitor, Gail Bowen, who I promoted to nidan right after she twice defeated the best gal in Broward County! And the other was a huge Army guy who got shodan in Korea. Later on after the Homestead clubs closed up Gail finished up college and was commissioned in the Army. Haven't seen either one of them in many years.

Funny story about Gail. Her father was the president of Southeast Airlines. The CIA airlines! He was a friend and supported Gail in her Judo. She assisted me at Homestead and had a boyfriend who was stationed there and was a former college wrestler from Wisconsin. In fact he had been a State champion and/or AAU champ before. Anyway, he once wanted to demonstrate how some wrestling techniques they used from Judo, so I allowed him to get yoko shiho gatame on me, using his methods, and he nearly split me in two. He was a strong as a bull and I was stupid enough to let him get me in that hold-down! Well, I told him I was impressed and to let me up. He would not! Hum, I thought, I was nearly passed out from his bear grip - so I just took one of his carotid arteries between my thumb and finger and he went out like a light. Later he complained that I used an unauthorized Judo technique. I smiled and told him it depended on what Judo rules he was referring to.

When the Air finally got to me I just gave up and turned the clubs over to the big guy and retired from teaching. It was time anyway - since the age of 12 years old I had practiced Judo and taught it for 20 years, it was time to do something else. The big Army guy was stationed at a nearby G2A missile range and finally learned how to perform uke duties in kata and uchikomi! Once while I was trying to demonstrate to class how a smaller guy could throw down a big guy with seoinage he leaned on me so hard that we both crashed to the mat, with him on top of me! Now this guy weighed 300 pounds at least and only 170! So, I asked him to randori with me whilst I again demonstrated to the class seoinage, but this time I did not pause to explain anything, I slammed him down so hard he couldn't breath very good for an hour! Little guy gets bug guy sort of thing. The bigger they are the harder they fall :)

The last year of my reign over my class at Homestead was a great disappointment to me. The Air Force seemed to want Judo out of the weight room and the kids club was more of a baby-sitting thing, as many kids' Judo classes are, so I took the hint and departed. The big guy got out of the Army and the clubs just ceased to exist. Of course, in late August of 1992, Homestead Air Force Base blew away in the hurricane and it was closed. Too bad, the Air Force was a great place for Judo activities for nearly 30 years from 1950 to about 1980.

During the years after I quit Judo some time in the early 1980's some of my old Judo clubs have survived under the care of a few of my assistants. Hopefully they will continue and their assistants will take over and so on. That is about all one can expect of all the time and effort one has to do to start Judo clubs. It is very difficult to find a place to practice in the first place, but setting up a club is ten times harder. In 1973 I joined a club in Miami and the guy running it, Henry Kollegian, introduced me to some big shots in the Dade County Community school system. From there I set up three clubs at various locations. The first thing to do was to arrange for space and to find some mats. Of course, the school had no idea what I was doing and their support was misguided at beast, but after a while they just left me to do the job. That takes a lot of conspiring and manipulating, but if one know the psychology of that profession then you use Judo psychology to make the school think they are managing it all and then just get the job done despite them.

My assistant was a Cuban-American dude, Alberto Sanchez, was about my age and had been in the Bay of Pigs thing. He had been the student of Cuba's 9th dan Japanese Judo senei (name forgotten) for about 20 years and the Judo Black Belt Federation in the USA would only allow him to be a brown belt! Well, I gave him one of my old worn out obis and had him to shodan in a few days - he was an excellent Judo player and made me the best assistant I had ever had. Last time I hear he was rokudan!

With the help of several others we set up around ten Judo clubs in the school system. Judo was big time in Dade County. It was a great time then. I have scanned a photo of some of the gang during one of Rick Martens and Phil Porter clinics, standing from left to right: Harold Forchey, ??, Humbereto Bercera, Phil Porter, Lerenzo Mesa, Alberto Sanchez, Frank Payne. Kneeling from left to right: Len Viriera, me, and Ike-Mont-Ros.

Can't remember the big guy's name second from left in back. Harold is a "former" Marine and a hair dresser! Hum, what a combination :)

All of the American-Cuban guys were in the Bay of Pigs thing. Meas, right of Porter, was 50 years old in that photo and had at least 1,000 Judo players in all his clubs! A great guy and friend.

Looking at the photo in the last post brings back memories. That was taken around 1975 or 76. Harold is not a 7th dan. The second guy I promoted to shodan before then and his name is Gus Hernandez. He has a couple large clubs. Humberto may be godan or so and built up a few good clubs. Phil is now 9th dan and run some big Martial Arts thing. Mesa, if still alive, was shichoidan and probably holds the record for membership in that area. Alberto still runs one or two of my old Judo clubs and rokudan I think. Frank was a high school teacher who lived a block from me then, is godan Judo and rokudan in some sort of jujitsu now.

I have lost track of Len who I think ended up yodan or godan, maybe lives on the east coast of Florida now. Me, well it's just old me. They forced yodan on me years ago. Means tittle to me now. Ike, well he was my good buddy from a club a few blocks away from my two clubs in South Miami, he's most likely yodan or godan now. We had monthly shiai for out kids and gave each one of them a trophy to take home. It cost us a small fortune, but well worth it. Some of the sensei around thought that was a bad idea, but besides Mesa's clubs, we maintained the largest Judo clubs in the county for years and at least the happiest parents in town. Some of Ike's students went on to place high standings in the national tournaments too. Not bad.

Over looking all the civil strife and Judo politics I must say that I have known Porter for many years and we are among a very few Judoka that past the fifty-year mark in the art. While Phil still does clinics and whatever I only workout when the spirit moves me. At least he stuck with it all the years.

Since leaving the Miami area in 1996 I have completely lost contact with the gang in that image. Someday it would be nice to have a reunion of sorts. I wish there were more photographs of other instructors or sensei in the area, but many of the ones I had were destroyed when Andrew nearly blew us away in 1992. I knew Jack Williams, USJF leader, fairly well and several other federation people in the area. They all had large clubs. Henry Kolligian had huge Judo clubs. Pedro Fleitos took over one of my clubs. Rick Fernandez, Bob Cole, Ruth Burkhart, Dan Zinn, Howard King,. We also had a black belt named West, who worked for National Geographic and a shark expert for them. He would keep shark away while the camera guys would take films of them! Broward County had Darrell Sweany, Frank Donaldson, Mike Cobb, Wally Philbrick, and I think Jerry Armstrong.

If I left anyone out it is only because I wanted to or forgot them. At any rate Florida was always had the largest USJA membership with Dade and Broward Counties holding the record for membership for decades, if not longer, and a bunch of black belts too numerous to name. Forgot George Bass up in northern Florida! George was president of the USJA for many years and is retied now living near Lakeland, just 50 mils from me. Got to get up to see him!

Many of my old letters, newsletters, photographs, book, and other stuff were ruined by hurricane Andrew. The northern edge of the eye past over my house. Fortunately for us it only damaged my home and caused water damage and some other things. The houses on either side were nearly blown down. Weird how that happened -- it was like that in many areas of the storm path. Weird how it left some of my papers and books alone and made mush out of others.

Judi was alive and well when I was there in south Florida. For the first ten years I worked from midnight to 8 a.m. and have never remember much of it then. Of course, others just didn't understand why I could fall asleep standing up whilst refereeing a match in the middle of a Judo shiai! Some matches were just boring :)

By that time I had taught kids so long and slacked up on real work outs with adults I was hard pressed to throw down a white belt and was discusted with that too. Live and learn. It would have been great if the big guys had Judogi lapels down around their waist, then it would have been more in tune with my training of late :)

Jeff, that's a hell of a contribution on your part to your art! Kudos
to you! Have you since just stopped training altogether, or just
stopped having an interest in forming anymore judo clubs?
I bet the popularity in Dade was due to such large contributions
by yourself.

Actually, ther are many more Judo people out there that contributed more than me. Mosty of them never had their name up in lights and are just forgotten souls.

During the years after that I worked out in my backyard with some of the older students and would get into some advanced shiai stuff. I could teach it but never could quite make it work as well, especially during the time of my last tournaments. The grass out back was covered with thick Zoysiagrass, similar to the grass used on golf course greens and made for good Judo mats. Before long about 50 students would show up during the week! They also did yard work :) When I worked mid-night shift it was hard and raising a family, teaching Judo nearly every evening a week, and stupid tournaments nearly killed me. Glad when some old guys died off and let me on the day shift!

Many of them began to graduate from high school, a few from college, and slipped away out in the world. By the mid-1980’s the backyard dojo became a lonely place and I stopped teaching all together. Occasionally some old Judo buddy would call or come by and we would go work out.

In 1987 my old buddy from Bergstrom, Robby Robinson, wrote me and we got together and celebrated all the years in the past. He was our best man at the wife and my wedding and great friends until we left Texas. We had not seen one another for 22 years! We correspond daily now and he will visit here next month. He is hinting that he may retire here so that means only one thing: a dojo for old Judo players :) Anyway, he got me to work out occasionaly and in 1988 or so we both attended some clinics with Phil Porter and some other old USJA guys in our past. It was a great time for me to get back on the mat and throw down brown belts :) But, it was not long after that the old Gout man came! Judo is a thing of my past after that.

BTW, I posted this somewhere about finding Judo mats, etc.. When I established the Judo class in the community schools someone came up with the idea for mats that worked so well that many other dojos took it up. We used foam rubber sheets we found at a box and packing company that are used to pack electronic equipment. They were 3 inches thick, 10-feet long and 3-feet wide. I put them in one of those temporary schoolroom buildings in 1974 and they were still in use as last as 1988. We used some 2”x 2” boards to shore up one side of the mats that was about two feet short of the floor width.

Another club I made up some hinged side support boards because the dojo was in the school cafeteria and had to be moved to the side after class. Of course, 1974 prices were scary to 21st Century people – I think we paid something like $12 per sheet from a local packing and box company. At first I considered covering the mats with some terry cloth like material or something similar. However, the uncovered mats proved to be the cat’s meow so we left them as is.

Tatami are so expensive that only Ross Perot could afford them and 1-inch rubber-wrestling mats are also too expensive and will ruin you ankles and toes too. Arthritis is serious business when you get past 40! IMHO, those mats are responsible for many old Judo sensei to give it up.

Brain drain and grid-lock of the neurons is getting to me so I’ll have to think on this for awhile. :asian:

Let's see, some musing about south Florida Judo, now it was during late 1960's until early 1973 that I was working for a company in Binghamton, NY and would work out Hidi Oshishi's dojo occasionally. Hidi was a karate teacher in Binghamton; however, practiced Judo at his club. Judo practice was not frequent but when I was there between road trip assignments, so when not at Hidi's my son and I would go to the Y.M.C.A. and usually some Judo player would be here to work out with. Since I was engineering a lot my mat time was limited. Hidi was quite a character and a great karateka and swordsman.

One assignment I had was at a Luftwaffa base in southern Germany near Frieburg. Two Judo clubs there and I liked on so would go there to work out every few weeks. Can't recall their names but German Judo is very good. The sensei and his assistants were very friendly and welcomed me in their dojo with open arms, and falls :) Didn't care much for the French Judoka who would drop in from time to time. It's the difference between pure sports Judo and Kodokan Judo. I lived there 18 months, got my taxes back, and returned to NY. Was on the road to Tucson, AZ, but too busy for Judo then. In 1968 I was transferred to the Air Force Display's and Controls Lab at Wright Field, Ohio and joined up with the Kittyhawk Judo club again. I think in previous posts this subject was beat to death :)

The Kittyhawk club was great. It was for several years the largest Judo club in the world. The practice area had to be 75 or 100 feet long by 30 feet wide and was hand build by John Powell and gang. Can't remember what mat material it was but it was covered with a very light canvas that was better than tatami for Judo. The whole thing was mounted in a wooden frame (I think) and floated on old truck tires. Falling down on that was ever bit as easy at the big floor as the Kodokan.

Some of the best female Judoka in the world practiced there or were regular visitors. While Marie Wick was there after I left she taught me Ju no kata at several dojos and in Miami for the next decade or so. Some of the following were members and some regular visitors: Johnny Barton, Bonnie Corte, Ernie Curry, Sue McConnell, Joan Millay, Diane Pierce, Phil Porter, Bill Powell, Preston Pugh, and names of several other instructors that I just can't remember. We had some tournaments at the Columbus Judo Club and Phil Porter, Rick Metens and George Emert were these at times. George ran the American Judo Supply Company for years. Can't remember the Judo players there, a guy named Nelson and another really great competitor was there also.

It was a great Judo club then and I suspect that the old WWII building it as in was replaced later on.

Before leaving the Air Force I transferred Carswell AFB just west of Fort Worth, Texas. Because they deemed it necessary to move SAC from Bergstrom to Castle AFB, California and my old boss wanted me to go to Carswell. Since I lived in base housing fond memories of the housing there comes back every time I see the movie Strategic Air Command, with James Stewart and June Allison. A few scenes were made in one of those units at Carswell. A plaque hangs on the house they used.

Jerry Reid and Jay Cooper were sensei at the base Judo club. Jerry was on of the first Judo players in SAC and great competitors of the 1950's. He founded the Bergstrom Air Force Base and then transferred to Carswell in the early 1960's. Jerry retired soon after I came to Carswell and then Jay was transferred to another base, so I took over the club. There were around 50 members then and stayed the same until leaving the Air Force in early 1967. Also, I opened up a kids class at the Youth Activities Club and had 25 or 30 kids there as well.

Since I was assigned to the mobile KC-135 flight simulator they sent me for a month of every three to Barksdale AFB, Louisiana where Rick Mertens, John Preston and George Emert lived. I would workout at Rick's club most often and occasionally would drive down to the LSU to assist George Emert in his two Judo clubs there and would help Rick at the AFJA office get out the magazines, newsletters, and do filing of membership documents. Rick moved his office and he got several of us to help him with that too. In those days he needed all the help he could get. Unfortunately, the last time I helped George with his club I was just coming down with the Hong Kong Flu and his club missed a big tournament after that! It nearly killed me before George threatened to do it first!

During the 1967 we were one of the yudanshakai of the Judo Black Belt Federation (JBBF). It wasn't but a year or two since we were named the Air Force Judo Association (AFJA). but then took in all the military organizations to be renamed the Armed Forces Judo Association (AFJA). Since we were nearly broke most of the time the name change was great since we didn't have to changed the organizational patches. Just a litel of he history of that time:

In 1957 the Second Air Force held its championship tournament in Austin. Tex., and invited Roy H. ("Pop") Moore to officiate the tournament. Pop decided to stay, and, with the help of Col. Walthrop, Beverly Sheffieid, from the Austin Recreation Department. and a young competitor, Jerry Reid, from Bergstrom Air Force Base. the Austin Judo Club opened its doors. With the addition of members such as Bill Nagase and Sam Numahiri in Fort Worth, Karl Geis and Rick Landers in Houston, and Air Force Sargeant Rick Mertens in Shreveport, the Southwestern U.S. Judo Association came into being. The association annexed small areas out of several yudanshakais and covered the states of Texas, Louisiana, Arakansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico. In 1959 the Southwestern U.S. Championships were held in Austin, Tex.. with over 300 competitors attending. In the late 1950s Bill Nagase and Gail Stolzenburg competed in the National AAU Senior Judo Championships.

These posts are great. I knew Hidi Oshishi a little way back when ( met him tru my instructor when Hidi did a few demos at our tournament). Haven't heard his name mentioned in many years and never did know he practiced Judo. Guess I should have suspected it.
Your posts bring to life a history that few can or are willing to tell. A personal thank you for these great insites into the world of Judo.

My wife grew up just down the road from Hidy Ochiai (http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=953)'s main school in Vestal. She never studied however.

It's great that you found Judo wherever you went! I studied Isshin-ryu in high school, had to srop it for Goju-ryu in college, had to drop it for Uechi-ryu in grad. school, etc., etc., etc. It's been very frustrating! It goes to Judo's a.) popularity and b.) integrity as a style--there are barely any variant judos (Kosen and BJJ perhaps), as oppose dto karate, jujitsu, even aikido.

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

These posts are great. I knew Hidi Oshishi a little way back when ( met him tru my instructor when Hidi did a few demos at our tournament). Haven't heard his name mentioned in many years and never did know he practiced Judo. Guess I should have suspected it.
Your posts bring to life a history that few can or are willing to tell. A personal thank you for these great insites into the world of Judo.

Hidi was Judo sandan and very good at it. We got along very well and had great workouts. He tried to get me to do all that Samurai sword stuff, but I opted out. He actually would put a watermelon or an egg on his wife’s neck and with a blind fold on would slice it into! Wow, I told him he was crazy. He said, no, my wife is crazy.” And laugh for 15 minutes. :rofl:

He liked Judo a lot but his business was karate, Can't remember what school now -- maybe Guju. :asian:

Originally posted by arnisador

My wife grew up just down the road from Hidy Ochiai (http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=953)'s main school in Vestal. She never studied however.

It's great that you found Judo wherever you went! I studied Isshin-ryu in high school, had to srop it for Goju-ryu in college, had to drop it for Uechi-ryu in grad. school, etc., etc., etc. It's been very frustrating! It goes to Judo's a.) popularity and b.) integrity as a style--there are barely any variant judos (Kosen and BJJ perhaps), as oppose dto karate, jujitsu, even aikido.

Vestal. We used to eat in a great steak house out there. It was one of those places with all the sawdust on the floor. I think IBM's first plant was there also. I finished my BSEE at Broome Tech out near Vistal. Hidi was a great guy. He had me over for dinner at times or we would eat and drink out. All Judo people drink :D :drinkbeer

I hear you, karate styles are numerous, but far in between. I gave up on it and did some kenpo with a guy at Bergstrom AFB. It was fun, but he belonged to the kajukenbo groups(s) and I taught Judo and some of what I rememberd of the karate I knew.

Also, I was too mean to do combat karate and Judo can be a recreational thing anyway.

Originally posted by jeffbeish

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/images/judoteam.jpg

Wow, old stuff. In the attached image is an old newspaper photo taken of the 1962 313th Air Div Judo team from Okianwa ready to go to Japan. I am standing to the far left.

In right image it's me again but this time I'm only 19 years old! The photo was taken outside the Naha AB Gym Judo dojo. Can a person actually have been that young? :D

:asian:

BTW, the Judo gang in the photo are, standing back row, left to right: Jeff Beish, Ed Kirby, Leroy Hutchenson, Jose Vasquez, Vetus McCray and Stan Arakawa. Kneeling from left to right: Barnard Wrye, Ron Johnson, Richard Whitcher, Bob Coffey, Preston Pugh, and Jim Hatch.

"It had changed a little, but still appeared the same except for the color of the tatami covering floor. I remember them just being a straw colored. Also, I could not find the workout and testing room where I tested for shodan, but it was probably right in my path and being an old fart I just couldn't see it."

When I wrote the above it did not occur to me that the Kodokan had changed so much. No wonder I did not recognize much of anything but the stature of Kano out front of the old side. Here is why things looked so different to me:

http://www.tnni.net/~dustymars/KODOKAN57.jpg
Kodokan when I was there in 1959

http://www.tnni.net/~dustymars/kodokan3.jpg
Recent photo of Kodokan

Notice that the section on the left is only three floors and the recent photo the left section is many more floors! Something has changed! Because it has been so many years I cannot remember if the main dojo floor was on the 7th or down at street level. At any rate were had several dojo rooms where specialized training would take place and batsugan would be occasionally done for promotions.

Jeff

How much of that building is given over to Judo nowadays?

From what I saw a lot of it is administrative, sleeping quarters, and a museum. The top floor, 8th, is a balcony that over looks the main mat floor. Not sure what is on the other floors, but they have at least two restaurants below street level.

It was smaller when I was there 40+ years ago and did not have a museum. A small sushi restaurant was in the basement but the sleeping area was very small. Several of us would sleep there on occasion but in a small room on futons. The rooms where we had lessons were scattered thoughout the old section. Too long ago to remember now, but it is a nice place now.

A Judo museum, you mean?

http://www.tnni.net/~dustymars/me.jpg

Talk about a museum! A living museum nearly 40 years. The last image was almost 10 years ago!!! :idunno:

jeffbeish-thanks for the great posts. i lived in japan in 1987-1988, was on the U.S. High School Team and got to train at the Kodokan. your stories brought back many good memories for me. I moved to Japan in 1998 and stayed for 3 years...teaching English and training in judo. I've been home for 3 years and miss it very much...teach judo now, but students give up too easy.

Judo has changed my life and brought me the greatest friends...I owe it dearly.

My wife and I flew over there in March 2002 to visit with our son and his family. He is a Navy Lieutenant that was stationed at Atsugi NAF for three years. Anyway, after what seemed a week of riding trains we found the Kodokan and sat and watched them workout on the main floor. I met the museum curator who remembered when I was the 40 plus years ago, not me personally but the sensei who taught Judo then, and had a great time taking. Also, visited my son’s Judo class near the base.

We didn’t workout very much at the Kodokan but at nearby dojos. The Kodokan was a little too formal for us younger types then :)

http://www.tnni.net/~dustymars/bergstrom_1965.jpg

Found this photo of our Austin Police Judo class while at Bergstrom AFB, Texas in 1965. The guy standing to the left is/was a detective with the Austin Vice and Narcotics and I am standing close to center under the net. The guy on the left and on the mat just in front the standing cop was Billy Speed -- who was shot to death by Chapman on the Texas Tower. This was at the beginning of the class and by the next year we had many more students from the Police department. The Police also had a special turnaments and would train at our club.

Talk about a museum! A living museum nearly 40 years. The last image was almost 10 years ago!!!
Bring back the beard!

Even my cat hates me! :)

Solong, too many trolls and phony paper tiger bad people on this group. Something changSo long, too many trolls and phony paper tiger bad people on this group. Someone mentioned that it had changed and it seems ugly Marxist politicians slivered from underneith the rocks and now populate this group -- not my cup of tea.

I'm sorry to hear that. I still hope you'll write a book about your Judo experiences!