Responsibility

[Master Dan]

I take no prisoners when it comes to parents!in the Dojang. The good ones we do all we can for them and we really try to have entire families train together. For all the talk most kids and teenagers really want to have adult participation especially parents.

However there are many bad types but lets drop the ones that the kids have no parents or thier parents have substance abuse and other issues. The other bad parents are the never say no, give them anything they want with out earning it, my kid is always right it's the rest of the world that has a problem. Maybe its different for you but for me home school parents are the worst. The majority shelter thier kids from public school and any activity they deem threatening to thier childs well being. Any teacher that atempts to give them structure or dicipline is eliminated by these parents. Thier kids wind up developing with out social skills, conflict resolution and many other delayed or learning disabilities that make it diffulcult to set and obtain goals as adults. These spoiled kids wind up being obese, with organ failure as young as 5 years old, some with out any life skills that gives them any fight chance at basic or adult education.

Sometimes with much patients it is possible to educate and involve these parents over a long period of time and become part of the process when they see the physical and mental progress thier kids make from the TKD training. One thing I will not do is allow parents to tell me how to teach period take them some place else. In the end its not worth the kid quit or become dangerous and you have to kick them out. So some times no parent is better than having parents.

I even put these comments in our newspaper here and I get about 90% agreement at least to the people who stop me on the street. We have alot of problems with theft and vandelism and I advocated in the paper that adults need to stop just looking the other way or calling the cops who are too overworked. Jump out of your car and handle it right there! One of my business associates a respected man of the community later spotted kids about to spray grafity on a historical church here the city spent $4 million restoring. He jumps out of his truck and yells, Hey you little ***** I'm going home to get my hack saw and when I get back if any of you MF's are here I'm gonna cut your bikes in half. Needless to say they have never sprayed paint anywhere again. Now I understand that won't work in Oakland but each community does what it can.

Does it never cease to amaze any of you that a Parent wants to punish the instructor by pulling thier kids out of class??? Oh Yeh let them sit home stuffing thier face watching TV or playing games. They punish thier own children due to thier issues and the kid goes down the tube, fat, stupid, and delinquent boy you got even with that instructor??

It's not just MA its in our schools nation wide and the teachers cannot teach and are being forced to be councelors and parents.

WE NEED CORORAL PUNISHMENT!!!!!!! NOT FOR KIDS BUT FOR PARENTS!!!

I SAY SLAP THE PARENTS NOT THE KID!!!

[ATC]

I take no prisoners when it comes to parents!in the Dojang. The good ones we do all we can for them and we really try to have entire families train together. For all the talk most kids and teenagers really want to have adult participation especially parents.

However there are many bad types but lets drop the ones that the kids have no parents or thier parents have substance abuse and other issues. The other bad parents are the never say no, give them anything they want with out earning it, my kid is always right it's the rest of the world that has a problem. Maybe its different for you but for me home school parents are the worst. The majority shelter thier kids from public school and any activity they deem threatening to thier childs well being. Any teacher that atempts to give them structure or dicipline is eliminated by these parents. Thier kids wind up developing with out social skills, conflict resolution and many other delayed or learning disabilities that make it diffulcult to set and obtain goals as adults. These spoiled kids wind up being obese, with organ failure as young as 5 years old, some with out any life skills that gives them any fight chance at basic or adult education.

Sometimes with much patients it is possible to educate and involve these parents over a long period of time and become part of the process when they see the physical and mental progress thier kids make from the TKD training. One thing I will not do is allow parents to tell me how to teach period take them some place else. In the end its not worth the kid quit or become dangerous and you have to kick them out. So some times no parent is better than having parents.

I even put these comments in our newspaper here and I get about 90% agreement at least to the people who stop me on the street. We have alot of problems with theft and vandelism and I advocated in the paper that adults need to stop just looking the other way or calling the cops who are too overworked. Jump out of your car and handle it right there! One of my business associates a respected man of the community later spotted kids about to spray grafity on a historical church here the city spent $4 million restoring. He jumps out of his truck and yells, Hey you little ***** I'm going home to get my hack saw and when I get back if any of you MF's are here I'm gonna cut your bikes in half. Needless to say they have never sprayed paint anywhere again. Now I understand that won't work in Oakland but each community does what it can.

Does it never cease to amaze any of you that a Parent wants to punish the instructor by pulling thier kids out of class??? Oh Yeh let them sit home stuffing thier face watching TV or playing games. They punish thier own children due to thier issues and the kid goes down the tube, fat, stupid, and delinquent boy you got even with that instructor??

It's not just MA its in our schools nation wide and the teachers cannot teach and are being forced to be councelors and parents.

WE NEED CORORAL PUNISHMENT!!!!!!! NOT FOR KIDS BUT FOR PARENTS!!!

I SAY SLAP THE PARENTS NOT THE KID!!!Ohhh Kaaayyyyy!!!!!!????

[elder999]

Ohhh Kaaayyyyy!!!!!!????


7t8xwpW8gJQ

[terryl965]

I take no prisoners when it comes to parents!in the Dojang. The good ones we do all we can for them and we really try to have entire families train together. For all the talk most kids and teenagers really want to have adult participation especially parents.

However there are many bad types but lets drop the ones that the kids have no parents or thier parents have substance abuse and other issues. The other bad parents are the never say no, give them anything they want with out earning it, my kid is always right it's the rest of the world that has a problem. Maybe its different for you but for me home school parents are the worst. The majority shelter thier kids from public school and any activity they deem threatening to thier childs well being. Any teacher that atempts to give them structure or dicipline is eliminated by these parents. Thier kids wind up developing with out social skills, conflict resolution and many other delayed or learning disabilities that make it diffulcult to set and obtain goals as adults. These spoiled kids wind up being obese, with organ failure as young as 5 years old, some with out any life skills that gives them any fight chance at basic or adult education.

Sometimes with much patients it is possible to educate and involve these parents over a long period of time and become part of the process when they see the physical and mental progress thier kids make from the TKD training. One thing I will not do is allow parents to tell me how to teach period take them some place else. In the end its not worth the kid quit or become dangerous and you have to kick them out. So some times no parent is better than having parents.

I even put these comments in our newspaper here and I get about 90% agreement at least to the people who stop me on the street. We have alot of problems with theft and vandelism and I advocated in the paper that adults need to stop just looking the other way or calling the cops who are too overworked. Jump out of your car and handle it right there! One of my business associates a respected man of the community later spotted kids about to spray grafity on a historical church here the city spent $4 million restoring. He jumps out of his truck and yells, Hey you little ***** I'm going home to get my hack saw and when I get back if any of you MF's are here I'm gonna cut your bikes in half. Needless to say they have never sprayed paint anywhere again. Now I understand that won't work in Oakland but each community does what it can.

Does it never cease to amaze any of you that a Parent wants to punish the instructor by pulling thier kids out of class??? Oh Yeh let them sit home stuffing thier face watching TV or playing games. They punish thier own children due to thier issues and the kid goes down the tube, fat, stupid, and delinquent boy you got even with that instructor??

It's not just MA its in our schools nation wide and the teachers cannot teach and are being forced to be councelors and parents.

WE NEED CORORAL PUNISHMENT!!!!!!! NOT FOR KIDS BUT FOR PARENTS!!!

I SAY SLAP THE PARENTS NOT THE KID!!!


What and why is this here, does it have something to do with the thread? I am confused and bedazzled by it.:erg:

[Tez3]

What and why is this here, does it have something to do with the thread? I am confused and bedazzled by it.:erg:

While it's good to get things off your chest I have to echo Terryl's post!

[Bob Hubbard]

MOD NOTE:

Posts split off from Dojo/Dojang Archetypes
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89870

[Tez3]

I take no prisoners when it comes to parents!in the Dojang. The good ones we do all we can for them and we really try to have entire families train together. For all the talk most kids and teenagers really want to have adult participation especially parents.

However there are many bad types but lets drop the ones that the kids have no parents or thier parents have substance abuse and other issues. The other bad parents are the never say no, give them anything they want with out earning it, my kid is always right it's the rest of the world that has a problem. Maybe its different for you but for me home school parents are the worst. The majority shelter thier kids from public school and any activity they deem threatening to thier childs well being. Any teacher that atempts to give them structure or dicipline is eliminated by these parents. Thier kids wind up developing with out social skills, conflict resolution and many other delayed or learning disabilities that make it diffulcult to set and obtain goals as adults. These spoiled kids wind up being obese, with organ failure as young as 5 years old, some with out any life skills that gives them any fight chance at basic or adult education.

Sometimes with much patients it is possible to educate and involve these parents over a long period of time and become part of the process when they see the physical and mental progress thier kids make from the TKD training. One thing I will not do is allow parents to tell me how to teach period take them some place else. In the end its not worth the kid quit or become dangerous and you have to kick them out. So some times no parent is better than having parents.

I even put these comments in our newspaper here and I get about 90% agreement at least to the people who stop me on the street. We have alot of problems with theft and vandelism and I advocated in the paper that adults need to stop just looking the other way or calling the cops who are too overworked. Jump out of your car and handle it right there! One of my business associates a respected man of the community later spotted kids about to spray grafity on a historical church here the city spent $4 million restoring. He jumps out of his truck and yells, Hey you little ***** I'm going home to get my hack saw and when I get back if any of you MF's are here I'm gonna cut your bikes in half. Needless to say they have never sprayed paint anywhere again. Now I understand that won't work in Oakland but each community does what it can.

Does it never cease to amaze any of you that a Parent wants to punish the instructor by pulling thier kids out of class??? Oh Yeh let them sit home stuffing thier face watching TV or playing games. They punish thier own children due to thier issues and the kid goes down the tube, fat, stupid, and delinquent boy you got even with that instructor??

It's not just MA its in our schools nation wide and the teachers cannot teach and are being forced to be councelors and parents.

WE NEED CORORAL PUNISHMENT!!!!!!! NOT FOR KIDS BUT FOR PARENTS!!!

I SAY SLAP THE PARENTS NOT THE KID!!!


Before I comment further can you clear up this bit for me

"However there are many bad types but lets drop the ones that the kids have no parents or thier parents have substance abuse and other issues."

Are you advocating dropping kids because you don't think their parents are any good or if they have no parents? Are you saying we should punish the children of parents we disapprove of by excluding the children?

[tshadowchaser]

Parents should be told up front that they are not to interfer with class and that their child will make grade only upon his/her own accomplishments.
Now I have had a different encounter with home school children. Their parents brought them to me to learn to defend themsleves and wanted their kids pushed to the limits. The parents realised that not going to public school deprived the kids of some interaction with others and wanted them in an invirerment where they would have interchange of thoughts and physical involment that was controled.
If a parent wants to pull his/her child from class thats up to them. I do not charge for instruction so it is no loss of money for me. However I do fell it is a loss for the child.

[Steve]

Parents should be told up front that they are not to interfer with class and that their child will make grade only upon his/her own accomplishments.This isn't true. Is it? How many schools are there where kids make grade based on some accomplishment other than having been signed up for the requisite amount of time? Your school might be the exception, if you don't charge for your school's training.

But to the OP, I think it's a little wierd that the OP believes that parents are punishing him. Even the idea of that sets off the claxon alarms. A parent has a responsibility to their children. If my kid's in your class and I have any issues with how you're running them, I'm going to pull my kid. I'm paying you for a service and if you're not delivering, I'm going to stop paying you. It's a business arrangement.

So some times no parent is better than having parents.That's just wrong. Barring abuse, even a mediocre parent is better than no parent at all.

[Tez3]

'Master' Dan, in your profile it says you are a TKD Master, what does this mean as far as your qualifications are concerned? Not being rude, I've never met a 'Master' in any martial art so am intrigued to know what TKD classes as a master.

[risingfire]

I take no prisoners when it comes to parents!in the Dojang. The good ones we do all we can for them and we really try to have entire families train together. For all the talk most kids and teenagers really want to have adult participation especially parents.

However there are many bad types but lets drop the ones that the kids have no parents or thier parents have substance abuse and other issues. The other bad parents are the never say no, give them anything they want with out earning it, my kid is always right it's the rest of the world that has a problem. Maybe its different for you but for me home school parents are the worst. The majority shelter thier kids from public school and any activity they deem threatening to thier childs well being. Any teacher that atempts to give them structure or dicipline is eliminated by these parents. Thier kids wind up developing with out social skills, conflict resolution and many other delayed or learning disabilities that make it diffulcult to set and obtain goals as adults. These spoiled kids wind up being obese, with organ failure as young as 5 years old, some with out any life skills that gives them any fight chance at basic or adult education.

Sometimes with much patients it is possible to educate and involve these parents over a long period of time and become part of the process when they see the physical and mental progress thier kids make from the TKD training. One thing I will not do is allow parents to tell me how to teach period take them some place else. In the end its not worth the kid quit or become dangerous and you have to kick them out. So some times no parent is better than having parents.

I even put these comments in our newspaper here and I get about 90% agreement at least to the people who stop me on the street. We have alot of problems with theft and vandelism and I advocated in the paper that adults need to stop just looking the other way or calling the cops who are too overworked. Jump out of your car and handle it right there! One of my business associates a respected man of the community later spotted kids about to spray grafity on a historical church here the city spent $4 million restoring. He jumps out of his truck and yells, Hey you little ***** I'm going home to get my hack saw and when I get back if any of you MF's are here I'm gonna cut your bikes in half. Needless to say they have never sprayed paint anywhere again. Now I understand that won't work in Oakland but each community does what it can.

Does it never cease to amaze any of you that a Parent wants to punish the instructor by pulling thier kids out of class??? Oh Yeh let them sit home stuffing thier face watching TV or playing games. They punish thier own children due to thier issues and the kid goes down the tube, fat, stupid, and delinquent boy you got even with that instructor??

It's not just MA its in our schools nation wide and the teachers cannot teach and are being forced to be councelors and parents.

WE NEED CORORAL PUNISHMENT!!!!!!! NOT FOR KIDS BUT FOR PARENTS!!!

I SAY SLAP THE PARENTS NOT THE KID!!!


I gotta say, this looks like it belongs in the "Respect here today gone tomorrow" thread or the other one the mod spoke about. With that said I am not sure if it’s okay to respond here or not?

I think Master Dan has some good points. I agree with a great deal of what he said typed. However, some of it I do not agree with or believe. I think I will address only one topic I do not agree with since I am not sure if I respond here. This seems like a very hard-nosed stance with only black and white...life is in shades of gray as well...we must not forget that. I have been involved in the homeschool community my entire life. I was homeschooled after 7th grade. My sister was homeschooled entirely. I am not a social deviant, nor do I lack social or learning abilities. I actually believe my mind is more free than the GI-JOE assembly that the schools throw out. They want children to remember a fact and spit it back out on command, no time for interpretation, (we have to go to assembly and watch a clown dance and talk about abstinence!). Whereas in my curriculum and many others we were taught to absorb the important facts and let the insignificant go. We were taught not only to respect authority but also why we should…or should not. Often times because our parents work we are self-directed learners. This is why homeschool student excel in university as opposed to many public and private educated students; they are used to being spoon feed information, we know how to go and find it. Where they fail, we succeed. Homeschool students are able to take instruction as well as obtain the information on their own. This type of learning applies to MA as well. I don't know where you live or what group of homeschool students you have been working with, but that is not the majority, that is a minority. Look...I can even spell lol;) If you point to a religious factor, many of us are not religious; I myself would align more with spiritual without the organization of religion. My church is the world; as is my classroom. Homeschool students are not under socialized. We often make friends with children in our neighborhoods and actually have an easier time of making friends. Being self-directed in learning will also lead to self-direction in social situations. We have not been tainted by the hands of underpaid and tired teachers, (I am not disrespecting teachers, and my parents have both been teachers in the public system. Having to put out "fires" all day and try to act as a stop-gap for parents made them quit), or children from homes that are broken into shards....name your cliché... My main point is, "Don't dis the home educated "G" :)"
As far a corporal punishment goes...I find it an abhorred practice...used on children or adults...it’s just wrong, but that is my opinion. I believe you can get to someone is better ways. Thank you master dan for the post, I agree with much of it, you can view my thoughts under, Respect here today gone tomorrow, this post might have been served better under that thread or the one the mod spoke of.
Okay maybe two topics...just a little...sorry...i have a big mouth:)

[dancingalone]

'Master' Dan, in your profile it says you are a TKD Master, what does this mean as far as your qualifications are concerned? Not being rude, I've never met a 'Master' in any martial art so am intrigued to know what TKD classes as a master.

In TKD, the title of master is frequently awarded at specific dan ranks. I believe the ITF considers a 7th dan to be a master, and the threshold in the KKW is lower... something like 5th dan. Maybe someone knowledgeable can explain it further, but I think there's also an instructor's certification which can cloud the issue further in both orgs.

And of course, there's nothing to prevent you (in the States at least) from just calling yourself a master and advertising your services as such.

[terryl965]

In TKD, the title of master is frequently awarded at specific dan ranks. I believe the ITF considers a 7th dan to be a master, and the threshold in the KKW is lower... something like 5th dan. Maybe someone knowledgeable can explain it further, but I think there's also an instructor's certification which can cloud the issue further in both orgs.

And of course, there's nothing to prevent you (in the States at least) from just calling yourself a master and advertising your services as such.


In the KKW and WTF 4th dan is consider a Master, but yet one can go and get an instructor certificate from the KKW that says he has been their and is ready to teach. The IFT I was under the impression was 5th was consider a Master, byany means I am consider a Master of what I have no clue because I am still learning on a daily bases. It is a word that I personally do not like but yet some feel they need to let people know they are.

I guess my 47 years speak for itself and title are just a thing that people need to be validated by their peers.

[shaunkwondo]

Wow. There is so much I want to say, I don't know where to be begin. In fact, I don't have the time or energy right now. "Master Dan", I really hope you don't believe all the stuff you just wrote. If this was your way of getting something off your chest, I think there are more professional and constructive ways of doing so. Do you realize that some of your students/parents can view this site; some of which may fall into that very broad category that you created?

I will say this. It is very ugly to categorize people based on their personal or social situation/circumstance.

I personally know many students that could prove you wrong on every count, beit home school, without parents, or parents that have substance abuse issues.

You say, "drop those kids"; I say, those are the kids that need it most. Apparently not from you though.

[Tez3]

In the KKW and WTF 4th dan is consider a Master, but yet one can go and get an instructor certificate from the KKW that says he has been their and is ready to teach. The IFT I was under the impression was 5th was consider a Master, byany means I am consider a Master of what I have no clue because I am still learning on a daily bases. It is a word that I personally do not like but yet some feel they need to let people know they are.

I guess my 47 years speak for itself and title are just a thing that people need to be validated by their peers.

To be honest this is what I was thinking, I've never met anyone who has called himself a Master, I don't think anyone actually needs to unless it's to impress non martial artists.

Shaunkwondo, I agree with you but am waiting for clarification from the OP as to what he meant, I suspect he means he will throw kids out if he doesn't approve of their parents or if they don't have any but his OP is confusing in the way it's written so would like him to confirm or deny this is what he does.
I don't know any home schooled children, it's not a common thing here.


The children in our class do pass their gradings on their own merits, they work very hard to get their grades. In the TKD class I go to now and again from what I've seen they also work hard and gain their belts on their own achievements as they do in other clubs, Judo and karate as well as JKD I've been too. It seems to be more the norm than the exception. Admittedly I don't know any place where you sign up for any length of time or have contracts, it's all been pay on night or monthly.

Parents - we've had some pushy ones, we've had a couple leave because their children couldn't grade as they weren't ready, we've had a couple of dads who wanted us to turn their kids into 'ninjas' but talking to them usually sorts it out. We do our best for the kids, all kids both civvie and military. The military ones are going through a hard time so we help mums as much as we can until dads are back. Here when dad comes back on R&R the children are allowed off school to spend time with them so we also don't expect to see them but often they will come in to train just to show dad what they've learnt while he's away.
We consider it's not our business to judge parents and will take any child that wants to train.

[Bruno@MT]

I even put these comments in our newspaper here and I get about 90% agreement at least to the people who stop me on the street. We have alot of problems with theft and vandelism and I advocated in the paper that adults need to stop just looking the other way or calling the cops who are too overworked. Jump out of your car and handle it right there! One of my business associates a respected man of the community later spotted kids about to spray grafity on a historical church here the city spent $4 million restoring. He jumps out of his truck and yells, Hey you little ***** I'm going home to get my hack saw and when I get back if any of you MF's are here I'm gonna cut your bikes in half. Needless to say they have never sprayed paint anywhere again. Now I understand that won't work in Oakland but each community does what it can.


I agree with the gist of what you are saying, but getting out of your car and angrily yelling at kids spraying graffiti is in places can get you shot, stabbed or beaten up. And then mommy can explain to the kids why daddy is not coming home ever again.

It would work wonders already if you can get people just to properly handle their own kids. If they did that, it would already make a world of difference.

Also, you mention 'not taking prisoners' when it comes to parents, but if there is a good chance that you can improve a kid yourself by setting an example for them to follow, then you punish the kids and not the parents if you piss them off so much that they pull their kids from your class.

[Bruno@MT]

'Master' Dan, in your profile it says you are a TKD Master, what does this mean as far as your qualifications are concerned? Not being rude, I've never met a 'Master' in any martial art so am intrigued to know what TKD classes as a master.

Others already mentioned TKD. It is the same in Genbukan ninpo and jujutsu. After 4th dan there are non-technical ranks you must earn in order to progress further. As soon as you earn the first one, you are labeled a master level instructor.

[Gorilla]

Master Dan,

As a parent who has TKD Experience since 2001. I have seen many parents who have caused problems at the 3 schools which we have attended. I have always tried to be that parent who is a moderating voice. Most of these issues evolve around money. It is always sad that issues happen. I always try to be the voice of reason.

I have also seen TKD Master's who cause problems and blame it on parents.

At our second school the "so called" Master loved propositioning the moms. Something we found out after we left. This school had a ton of problems caused by the lack of integrity of the "Master".

This knife cuts both ways. We have had 2 great Master's the first one and our current one. The middle one was really bad!!!

I am always concerned about anyone who protests to much!!! You are hitting pretty hard for 2 posts!!!

[risingfire]

Geez guys I think some of you have some good points!
The more I read this I wonder. I think Master Dan meant that for the sake of the argument to drop those others with issues, maybe not drop them period per say. I'm not sure. Master Dan has made some good points BUT I feel like his energy could be directed in a negative way. I love opinionated people; I find it extremely interesting to debate with them. However, the way he directed it toward, xyz groups can be dangerous. I didn't like the homeschool stuff...what about the girl or guy who grew up with alcoholic parents or no parents...bet they didnt like that either. I dunno how I feel about this post. He seems like his heart is in the right place but it seems like the thought is small minded, I hate to even say that though, that puts me on the wrong side of the fence. I am thinking small community, or someone who wants to live in a small community. Every time I read this post I think of the Toby Keith song trailorville. I guess at this point I'm going to shut up, I just don't know what to say, I want to agree with much of it but at the same time its disturbs...lol

[ralphmcpherson]

In the KKW and WTF 4th dan is consider a Master, but yet one can go and get an instructor certificate from the KKW that says he has been their and is ready to teach. The IFT I was under the impression was 5th was consider a Master, byany means I am consider a Master of what I have no clue because I am still learning on a daily bases. It is a word that I personally do not like but yet some feel they need to let people know they are.

I guess my 47 years speak for itself and title are just a thing that people need to be validated by their peers.I, too, am not comfortable with the word master. The GM at our club is a 9th dan and has been doing tkd for almost 60 years and he is not comfortable with being described as a master. No matter how long I had trained for, or regardless of rank, I would never refer to myself as a master.

[dancingalone]

I, too, am not comfortable with the word master. The GM at our club is a 9th dan and has been doing tkd for almost 60 years and he is not comfortable with being described as a master. No matter how long I had trained for, or regardless of rank, I would never refer to myself as a master.

What about the reverse? Are you comfortable referring to your teachers as 'masters'? How do you address them?

[Master Dan]

Before I comment further can you clear up this bit for me

"However there are many bad types but lets drop the ones that the kids have no parents or thier parents have substance abuse and other issues."

Are you advocating dropping kids because you don't think their parents are any good or if they have no parents? Are you saying we should punish the children of parents we disapprove of by excluding the children?

No I was trying seperate the discussion away from kids who don't have parents or have or substance abuse or are abusive. Those are whole topics by themselves but sadly some times these kids have more of a chance than those who have suposably good parents who interfere badly and ruin development. I never eliminate any student who is trying at any level even if I have to pay for everything I can. Its the parents who punish the kids. Most people do not understand that Dicipline is not punishment its teaching with love. People learn from Dicipline not from Punishment.

[terryl965]

What about the reverse? Are you comfortable referring to your teachers as 'masters'? How do you address them?

Most of the ones I stay around wants to be called by their first name, about the only time they ask for the Master GM thing it at formal events because so many expect it.

[ralphmcpherson]

What about the reverse? Are you comfortable referring to your teachers as 'masters'? How do you address them?My instructors like to be called by there first name, our GM we just use his surname with "mister" in front. He would laugh at me if I called him master.

[dancingalone]

I'm not a fan of the title either, but that's my westernized outlook. On a educational note, can someone explain how the master title came into wide usage in taekwondo? It would be out of place in karate for example to refer to someone as "Master Smith". Yet, from what I can tell, it's not so unusual in TKD, and may even be common usage.

[elder999]

Most people do not understand that Dicipline is not punishment its teaching with love. People learn from Dicipline not from Punishment.


Discipline is a means to an end, and never an end in itself....

[Stac3y]

What about the reverse? Are you comfortable referring to your teachers as 'masters'? How do you address them?

I wouldn't be. Mr., Ms., Mrs.; Sir, and Ma'am are what I'm comfortable with.

[Steve]

No I was trying seperate the discussion away from kids who don't have parents or have or substance abuse or are abusive. Those are whole topics by themselves but sadly some times these kids have more of a chance than those who have suposably good parents who interfere badly and ruin development. I never eliminate any student who is trying at any level even if I have to pay for everything I can. Its the parents who punish the kids. Most people do not understand that Dicipline is not punishment its teaching with love. People learn from Dicipline not from Punishment.I think this depends entirely on how you define discipline. What do you mean by "discipline?" What does the term mean to you? How are punishment and discipline different to you? Can you give some examples?

[terryl965]

I'm not a fan of the title either, but that's my westernized outlook. On a educational note, can someone explain how the master title came into wide usage in taekwondo? It would be out of place in karate for example to refer to someone as "Master Smith". Yet, from what I can tell, it's not so unusual in TKD, and may even be common usage.

As far as I can tell it come from the meeting when they invented TKD, so it has been with it since the conception. As far as why, ego's I would imagine and that pretty much sums it up.

[dancingalone]

I wouldn't be. Mr., Ms., Mrs.; Sir, and Ma'am are what I'm comfortable with.

I like that. Or 'SaBum Smith' would also be a good alternative since this is the TKD forum.

[Gorilla]

When first involved in TKD I hated the Master Title. We use the term on our team because our Coach has earned that title by hard work, dedication and integrity! Terry is a very humble person and I am sure that he prefers Coach but everyone has such respect for him that Master just seems right!

A title that he has definitely earned!!!

[Master Dan]

Parents should be told up front that they are not to interfer with class and that their child will make grade only upon his/her own accomplishments.
Now I have had a different encounter with home school children. Their parents brought them to me to learn to defend themsleves and wanted their kids pushed to the limits. The parents realised that not going to public school deprived the kids of some interaction with others and wanted them in an invirerment where they would have interchange of thoughts and physical involment that was controled.
If a parent wants to pull his/her child from class thats up to them. I do not charge for instruction so it is no loss of money for me. However I do fell it is a loss for the child.

I agree with you I have had many home school or charter school parents with those attributes I was just pointing out the negative one and it does make you hurt for the kids.

Great to hear you don't charge!!! I have taught for free even spent proabably $500,000 over the last 16 years for underprivalaged and targeted and at risk youth. Money ruins everything it has wattered down and corrupted the original art. You should email me I would like to know more where you teach http://nometaekwondoacademy.yolasite.com/

[Master Dan]

Master Dan

Forgive me but I am still learning how to use this site I have hit some wrong buttons. Figured out how to reply but still do not understand how to make an original Post??

Also some times time very short I maybe making only partial comments. There is definately more positive than negtive. I teach all ages but I am happiest when one or more parents will train with thier children. I would say the largest percentage is Mothers. They find thier health improves and begin to convince thier friends to do the same soon they have thier own little social group.
In Eskimo culture adoption is normal and very frequent sister's will have baby's for other family members or any teen age girl that does not want to keep her baby other family members will take the baby.
Also strangers are adopted into the family and culture. I have always taught TKD as an Indiginous Native Art Form and we adopt the same principle in teaching always willing to adopt a new member into our family with teaching and nurturing the new student by family members and being supervised by the Elder in Charge which would be the Master Instructor.
http://nometaekwondoacademy.yolasite.com/

Quianna Eskimo Thanks

[terryl965]

Dan if you do not mind, how is it you can teach for free, do you have sponsors or some other avenue to support yourself and family? I am asking because we have five free program that help our youth and at risk childern and abuse women groups. I believe you may have come off very rough in the first post so I will hold judgement until later but it sounds and looks like you are doing some great work up north? Let me ask this other question how does one man run so many location or are you part of a bigger org?

[Master Dan]

Wow. There is so much I want to say, I don't know where to be begin. In fact, I don't have the time or energy right now. "Master Dan", I really hope you don't believe all the stuff you just wrote. If this was your way of getting something off your chest, I think there are more professional and constructive ways of doing so. Do you realize that some of your students/parents can view this site; some of which may fall into that very broad category that you created?

I will say this. It is very ugly to categorize people based on their personal or social situation/circumstance.

I personally know many students that could prove you wrong on every count, beit home school, without parents, or parents that have substance abuse issues. If all that were true you would be right. First things are not always as they seem depending on our words a person with a sensative bias hears or sees what they want to rather than what is there. Reality is 100% of perception regardless of facts. I am guilty however of stirring the pot sometimes to motivate creative discussion.

You say, "drop those kids"; I say, those are the kids that need it most. Apparently not from you though. I will be more careful with my words no I meant that some parents think they know better how to teach traditional MA and they pull thier kids out and that is simptomatic of thier trying to insulate or over protect thier child. That is only that particular case not a generaliztion of all parents and or home school ect. The venting I may be doing is the frustration that the child desperatly in that case needs the training physically and mentally.

As for offending any student or parent? not likely I am the farthest North most remote Master in the World, the only one to teach St Lawrence Island about 40 miles from the Rusian boarder in the Bering Sea (Deadliest Catch) none of them would remotely find or know about this site. But it was a good point. I teach in areas that I have to worry about a violent person walking in at any moment with a knife or gun. I have one parent a violent convicted felon who tried to set fire to the radio station becasue he was hearing voices and then tried to set fire to a house with women and children inside. His son was my student for three years and starting to do well. I never knew he had a father. The guy walks in one day starts saying alot of bad things in front of the children making threats I finaly had put him out and restrict him. Unfortunetly since this man came back into his kids life he now no longer trains and hangs out with a bad bunch. Its very sad.

This is what I meant by some times no parent is better than having one. Those of you who are parents this isn't about you or how you choose to teach. And to the person who said hey I shop around to get what I pay for its a business? I don't charge money for teaching If any money is accepted its from corporations or foundations and all of it used to supply equipment for the students. I follow a traditional method of teaching from my Master and his before him Our text book is in its 8th edition with the right instrution I think turns out one of the best overall well rounded black belts nationally but more important a happy healthy person.

[andyjeffries]

I like that. Or 'SaBum Smith' would also be a good alternative since this is the TKD forum.

And remember the title in Korean comes after the surname. You would refer to yourself as "Smith Sabum" and to someone else as "Jones Sabumnim" (adding the honorific -nim suffix when referring to someone else).

Cheers,


Andy

[MasterWright]

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Good one! Post some more if you can!

[Earl Weiss]

Humor aside.

Korean Flag on wall and Japanese terminology stinks.

[Daniel Sullivan]

I like that. Or 'SaBum Smith' would also be a good alternative since this is the TKD forum.
If using the Korean title, it would Smith Sabeom, or more likely just sabeom of the instructor is being addressed directly. In the third person, he or she would be sabeomnim.

Daniel

Edit. Now that I posted this, I see that Andyjeffries beat me to the punch.

[dancingalone]

And remember the title in Korean comes after the surname. You would refer to yourself as "Smith Sabum" and to someone else as "Jones Sabumnim" (adding the honorific -nim suffix when referring to someone else).



If using the Korean title, it would Smith Sabeom, or more likely just sabeom of the instructor is being addressed directly. In the third person, he or she would be sabeomnim.


Yes, I occasionally follow that convention when typing on MT.

Is it incorrect to westernize it and add the title to the beginning as we typically do in English speaking societies, such as Mister Jones or Captain Jones? I am not so sure it is. I have an Asian surname. Properly written, it should be last name first, then first name. Yet, as I am in America, my name follows the convention of [firstname, lastname]. I believe either usage is OK, although obviously the Western style is preferred given the locale.

I don't think it's worth the correction, although I appreciate the thought. If anyone addresses me as 'Sensei' or 'SaBum' I am more than pleased whether they choose to add it to the end of my name or the beginning.