ax(e) kick and crescent kick

[andurilking2]

can anyone give me a step by step on how they perform each of these kicks i have heard of a couple different ways

[Shodan]

These two types of kicks were taught to me as follows- first, the axe kick is usually delivered to an opponent who is already on the ground- and I have mainly seen the target area as the opponent's spine, but could be to opponent's front side, assuming they are down on their back. We do the axe kick by doing a high front kick over the target and then letting your leg drop straight down to the ground (target), all the impact being delivered by your dropping down heel (so your foot is kept in the front kick position- toes pulled back).

The crescent kick on the other hand- I learned two forms- an inward crescent and an outward. The inward striking surface is with the inner side of your foot- and usually to the face- your leg goes out as if delivering a front kick- but you shoot it to the outer side of the target and then it arches into the target in a half-circle motion- your leg is kept fairly straight, leaving a slight bend in the knee.

The outward crescent kick is very similar, only the kick shoots across the mid-line off to the side of the target and then arches back into the target and you are striking with the outer side of your foot now. Again, your leg should be fairly straight- but leave a little bend to the knee.

We also do the outward crescent kick with a spin in front- really adds to the force of the kick, but takes work to get this down and a few bout with dizziness from practicing it over and over!!

Anyway, hope this helps and wasn't too confusing!! :asian:

[tshadowchaser]

Most people I have seen try the axe kick do it like a frount strech raising the foot stright up as high as thy can then letting it decen . I see them useig th shoulder s a taget most of the time. It takes good timeing and quickness.

[Damian Mavis]

Wow Kenpo teaches Axe kick as a low attack only? That's a good use too but Axe kick is an amazing high angle attack. Besides knocking out a few people in TKD I use it fairly regularly in Muay Thai and it works like a charm. The thing about Axe kick is it reads as a side angle attack to the head or ribs so people defend from it by blocking to the side, the kick goes over the block and straight down on their face/head or collar bone and chest. The kick is supposed to break the collar bone (by ITF TKD use) but I find it has excellent knockout value. I've seen a few pro fighters on Satelite use it beautifully for knockouts or stun too. One of the worst injuries I've seen associated with this techique was when 2 of my redbelts were sparring kind of rough and one of them landed this kick on the others face..... at first the Doctor said there was nothing to be done about the fractured cheek bone and that it would heal fine, but then his eye started sinking into his head so he went back to get reconstructive surgery and a plate put into his face to hold it together. Bad bit of luck there...

Speed is the key, whip it up, around and down as fast as you can down their center line if you want it to be realstically effective unless your being nice, in that case landing it on their shoulder is always a good thing to do since it wont hurt much at all especially if you have foot gear on. If you don't have the flexibility to bring this kick above their head for maximum power then its not going to be as beneficial but I have seen some short stubby guys with low flexibility still pound this kick down on someones chest and take them out.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[progressivetactics]

the nice thing about the axe kick, if you are not gumby with stretch, when it gets to the top.......it comes down fast and hard....you can definatly knock someone out, or break a clavicle or shoulder on its way down.

The in to out crescent is a nice kick but the out to in, I don't have much use for......We teach it, but don't use it much.

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis
Wow Kenpo teaches Axe kick as a low attack only?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Nope... I learned it as the high kick with the shoulder/guard as a target, and I'm a kenpoist. Depends on your teacher, I guess. As far as I can tell, not many of our techniques have axe kicks in them.

[progressivetactics]

teaches it as a high axe as well.

[Shodan]

Yes- the axe kick is "mainly" used/taught at our school for a low target, however, not exclusively. I have seen the clavicle as a target also as well as the head- but most commonly, it is to the lower targets.

I agree- the inward crescent kick is taught, but not used much here- the outward crescent is practiced much more.

I think there might be an ending to a technique somewhere (Kenpo) that used the axe kick, but I don't know of any of the core techniques that use it..........hmmmmmm.......will have to check into what that ending is on.

Have a good day everyone! :asian: :karate:

[tonbo]

I have learned the axe kick, although it is not part of our school's Kenpo curriculum. I learned it as a high-target kick (shoulder/clavicle range) as well.

From my "technical" understanding:

An axe kick is one that goes up and comes back down pretty much in either a straight line or in a slight arc. It is meant to break the clavicle or other bones that it comes in contact with (i.e., if you bring it down on the neck of a bent-over opponent). It is used as a "hammering" type kick.

Crescents have either an in-to-out motion (where the leg goes outward from the body's centerline -- "outward crescent") or an out-to-in motion (where the leg starts from an "outward" position and moves in toward the centerline -- "inward crescent"). In my school, we use these mainly as means to relocate an opponent's front hand. The motion is basically the same as an axe kick. but less of an arc, and also returning to chamber after the kick. I have used both inward and outward crescents effectively, and I can generally get them into use when I really need them.

AFAIK, we only have one technique with an axe kick, and that is targeted to the back of the opponent's neck as they are bent down.

Hope some of this helps!!

Peace--

[progressivetactics]

personally, i see the inward crescent ( from the outside to the inside) about as practical as practicing grabbing a punch someone is throwing at you. It looks real nice in 1 steps or demos, but in reality the odds of landing it successfully are pretty slim.

[theletch1]

I've always seen crescent kicks as the jab of the kick world. It's a good way to set up for some thing else. I've never been too comfortable with the in-to-out as I feel it leaves me open for a split second.

[tonbo]

personally, i see the inward crescent ( from the outside to the inside) about as practical as practicing grabbing a punch someone is throwing at you. It looks real nice in 1 steps or demos, but in reality the odds of landing it successfully are pretty slim.

Actually, I have used this as a setup for a spinning back kick before, and it worked out just fine. It has its practicality, but it isn't always the most practical thing to fire off.

I'm not generally a fan of high or flashy kicks......I like to use kicks to work my opponent's base, so I rely more on snap kicks (front ball kicks) and roundhouses, spur kicks and so on, to do most of the work.

'Course, the occasional head shot is always amusing...;)

Peace--

[progressivetactics]

it works as a nice technique set up, I agree.
Still wouldn't risk it in the street. Just on a demo/test.

[fissure]

Inward/outward crescents are taught early on in TKD. The ax kick usually comes next. This is initially taught as a linear straight up and down motion. Later the crescent motion (both kinds) are incorporated into the motion. For instance if your opponent were lined up more to your left side (both of you have your left side leading - a "closed" stance) then the you would launch the "outside" ax kick similarly to an outside crescent kick. As it reached it's pinnacle, over the target area, you would drive down into the ax kick. Also at some point the "pushing" ax kick is practiced. The chamber would be that of a push kick, knee drawn back into your chest with the foot level with it, and then the kick is shot out, up and finally down. This is a good short range version of the ax kick.:EG:

[progressivetactics]

we teach a hatchet kick, where the knee is in the chest and the foot comes straight forward, with the blade being the striking surface, but that is no Axe kick.

bb

[fissure]

No it doesn't sound as though it is!
From your discription it would appear to be a variant of a push kick, using the foot blade as the striking surface.
As to thr "pushing ax kick"- this may be one of those times when words won't be able to explain the motion!

[MJS]

I was taught the ax kick as beginning like the outward crescent kick, then extending your leg and having it come straight down. I've seen TKD guys do it to the collar bone area. I've used it in sparring to bring down the hands of my opp.

The crescent kick. The outward crescent kick, I've done much like the ax kick, only instead of bringing it straing down, snapping it out in an arc. The same for the inward. Chambering your leg as if you're throwing a front kick, snapping it out and then back in.

Kind of hard to explain but I think we all get the basic idea!

MJS

[tonbo]

Still wouldn't risk it in the street. Just on a demo/test.

Amen to that. In the street, I'm a lot more blast and a lot less flash. May work for some, but not for me.

I will use it in sparring, though, from time to time. I think of the crescents as the foot equivalent of inward/outward parries....
:D

Peace--

[andurilking2]

Wow Kenpo teaches Axe kick as a low attack only? That's a good use too but Axe kick is an amazing high angle attack. Besides knocking out a few people in TKD I use it fairly regularly in Muay Thai and it works like a charm. The thing about Axe kick is it reads as a side angle attack to the head or ribs so people defend from it by blocking to the side, the kick goes over the block and straight down on their face/head or collar bone and chest. The kick is supposed to break the collar bone (by ITF TKD use) but I find it has excellent knockout value. I've seen a few pro fighters on Satelite use it beautifully for knockouts or stun too. One of the worst injuries I've seen associated with this techique was when 2 of my redbelts were sparring kind of rough and one of them landed this kick on the others face..... at first the Doctor said there was nothing to be done about the fractured cheek bone and that it would heal fine, but then his eye started sinking into his head so he went back to get reconstructive surgery and a plate put into his face to hold it together. Bad bit of luck there...

Speed is the key, whip it up, around and down as fast as you can down their center line if you want it to be realstically effective unless your being nice, in that case landing it on their shoulder is always a good thing to do since it wont hurt much at all especially if you have foot gear on. If you don't have the flexibility to bring this kick above their head for maximum power then its not going to be as beneficial but I have seen some short stubby guys with low flexibility still pound this kick down on someones chest and take them out.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
ok so it is pretty much an agreement this is how i originally learned an ax kick

[andurilking2]

im pretty tall so it doesnt matter too much to me but does anyone jump with the ax kick to add power. especially shorter guys(or girls) with lower flexability.

Ive also seen it done with a flip to add velocity.

[Damian Mavis]

Yes it can be done with a switch jump which is when you raise one leg, jump and then raise the other one for the kick wile the other leg shoots back for balance and stability in mid air. Jumping like that is a good way to move forward or backward while doing the kick.

I practice the flipping axe kick (dubbed the forbidden kick haha) but that is just for fun really. Who knows though... I saw a Canadian use it in UFC back in the day.. he missed but it looked damn kool and the other guy just kind of stood there blinking because he had no idea what the frik he just saw.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[twinkletoes]

I learned this one the hard way, even though it should have been obvious. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT use either crescent kick (inwards OR outwards) on anything more solid than an arm.

I wasn't thinking one day, while I was doing some heavy bag work, and blasted the bag with an outward crescent. I had so much momentum and torque coming into it that my body, including my upper thigh, continued past the bag. My lower leg, as dictated by physics, stopped upon contact with the bag. I nearly snapped my own LCL.

The knee is not made for lateral force, and kicking something of substantial mass with a crescent will provide just that kind of lateral force. Beware.....

~TT

[Damian Mavis]

I use crescent kick full contact all the time on the heavy bag.... all kicks if done incorrectly on a heavy bag can cause serious injury.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[sweeper]

I haven't practiced TKD and the only two round kicks I know are the thai round kick and the jkd hook kick, but both of them you rotate your whole leg so your knee is horizontal, I'm presumming that is how you would throw a crecent kick. If so your knee 'should' be able to take the strain if the striking angle is in line with the angle your knee bends.

Hope that made sence.

[twinkletoes]

sweeper,

you are correct. in the crescent kicks the knee is held vertically, and the force of impact is the horizontal plane that would go through the knee from side to side. This is, of course, a major way that the knee does not bend.

Cheers,

~TT

[Damian Mavis]

How would sweeper be correct? heh This is getting confusing.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[twinkletoes]

Sorry, that was an error.

Sweeper, you are correct in that round kicks point the knee in the direction of impact, so that it can flex to reduce strain.

In crescent kicks the knee faces perpendicular to the line of impact. It is therefore not able to reduce any strain on the leg upon impact, which is where the potential for injury lies.

Thanks Damian.

My bad.

~TT

[Damian Mavis]

What you have to keep in mind TT is that there are a multitude of kicks and even hand/arm strikes that if done a certain way on a heavy bag will cause serious if not permanent damage to your body. The trick is knowing how to practice those techniques safely at full contact on the bag.

Some examples:

Wheel kick, this kick (for my martial art) is a straight leg kick that spins around and digs the back of the heel into the target.... this means the pressure could be placed on the knee joint since the leg does not bend or flex in that direction causing a serious hyper extension. BUT if have your range and hip placement right then it takes all the stress off of your knee and this kick can be practiced safely.

Ridge hand strike, this is the oppposite of knife hand and if you throw this technique at the bag head level you can hyper extend your elbow or even snap it. If you lead with your shoulder though you take all the pressure off your elbow and can hit the bag as hard as you want and lean in with all your wieght.

These are 2 examples I'm just bringing up to demonstrate that all techniques can be practiced on the heavy bag if you do it correctly and safely.

The reason this is important enough for me to go into here is that I use to injure myself all the time trying to do techniques on the heavy bag full contact until I learned how to do them safely.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[twinkletoes]

Damian,

Those are great examples.

I would never go so far as to say you "can't" practice the crecent kicks full out on a bag, but it certainly seems you need to make some precautionary modifications to do so, like what you've described.

Best,

~TT