I have a question!

[DAC..florida]

How many different style's or sets are there in TKD? :asian:

[Damian Mavis]

The main 2 being ITF and WTF style but I have heard of many different ones and independants throughout the world.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
How many different style's or sets are there in TKD? :asian:
Style is dependent on the instructor, each instructor teaches a bit differently.

But as Damian pointed out, there are two major ones. ITF and WTF. The philosophy of ITF is more traditional, while the WTF is more sport. But again, it's dependent on the instructor.

The independent organizations do still get their rank from Kukkiwon most of the time as with the WTF and ITF. And each organization use the same forms most of the time as well.

The taegeuk forms are common in most WTF and ITF schools while Palgwe forms are more predominant in WTF schools although some ITF schools that I know of practice palgwe forms as well.

[MartialArtist]

some basics on the structure (http://jenningscc.com/TaeKwonDo/Structure.htm)

[Galvatron]

Originally posted by MartialArtist

The independent organizations do still get their rank from Kukkiwon most of the time as with the WTF and ITF.


While im sure there are ITF instructors out there that have Kukkiwon certificates, your statement is a little misleading. The Kukkiwon does not certify rank for the ITF. Kukkiwon is the WTF headquarters, and issues rank only for the WTF and it's various NGB's.
ITF practitioners get their rank from the ITF.

[MartialArtist]

ITF practitioners, when they get their dan certificates, is from Kukkiwon. You don't have to be in the WTF.

[MartialArtist]

Kukkiwon is primarily responsible for international black belt rank standardization and certification, while the WTF is primarily responsible for the administration and promotion of taekwondo as an international sport.
On the side note, ITF as stated before stresses traditional values more.

[fissure]

The different kwans (school/style, similar to the Japanese use of the word ryu) that existed in the past have been "swallowed" up by the unified TKD that exists today. 15-20 yrs ago most dojang listed a particular kwan somewhere in their affiliation, nowadays only the organization is given - ITF, WTF or whatever

[fissure]

ITF practitioners, when they get their dan certificates, is from Kukkiwon. You don't have to be in the WTF
MartialArtist: I have never heard of this before. I must say you may be mistaken in this. ITF practitioners do not learn Taeguek or Palgwae sets, their dan rank forms are also different. As such they would have to learn multiple sets of poomse just to test, as these (Taeguek and Palgwae) are the only forms listed by the Kukkiwon's text book.
Perhaps a knowledgable ITF practitioner would be helpfull in clearing this up?:asian:

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by fissure
MartialArtist: I have never heard of this before. I must say you may be mistaken in this. ITF practitioners do not learn Taeguek or Palgwae sets, their dan rank forms are also different. As such they would have to learn multiple sets of poomse just to test, as these (Taeguek and Palgwae) are the only forms listed by the Kukkiwon's text book.
Perhaps a knowledgable ITF practitioner would be helpfull in clearing this up?:asian:


What part of florida are you from.

[Damian Mavis]

I run an ITF school, I assure you that no ITF schools anywere learn those patterns or get certificates from the Kukkiwon.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[DAC..florida]

I guess I should rephrase my question to how many original kwons were there, and also how many known off shoots of the originals are there.

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis
I run an ITF school, I assure you that no ITF schools anywere learn those patterns or get certificates from the Kukkiwon.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

I thought that was the case but i was not posetive so until I could get some proof I wouldnt argue on that, but thank you for your insight.

[Galvatron]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
ITF practitioners, when they get their dan certificates, is from Kukkiwon. You don't have to be in the WTF.

I hate to tell you my friend, but you are dead wrong. The Kukkiwon does not issue rank for anyone other than members of the WTF's national governing body organizations around the world.

The ITF isn't even based in South Korea, much less Seoul where Kukkiwon is.
The ITF and WTF are two organizations that are completely independent of each other.

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by Galvatron
I hate to tell you my friend, but you are dead wrong. The Kukkiwon does not issue rank for anyone other than members of the WTF's national governing body organizations around the world.

The ITF isn't even based in South Korea, much less Seoul where Kukkiwon is.
The ITF and WTF are two organizations that are completely independent of each other.


Sho-Nuff :rofl:





:p

[Disco]

For all concerned or interested. The confusion / confused perseption that the Kukkiwon certifies all.

An E-mail inqu: 7/4/03 2:31:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: nancyinbed@shaw.ca
Reply-to: admin@comdo.com
To: Disco
Sent from the Internet (Details)

No the kukkiwon is WTF.

CJS

----- Original Message -----
From: Disco
To: moderator@itf-information.com
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 4:30 PM
Subject: Certification Information

Does the Kukkiwon issue the Black Belts Certificates for the ITF?iry to ITF HQ 7/2/03, had this return response.
:asian:

[Damian Mavis]

What confusion? There was no confusion.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[TallAdam85]

No to people teach the same so if u look at it like that then There are millions of styles. But sometimes teachers add extra stuff in like some teach tkd and hapkido.

[progressivetactics]

too many TKD...
Can't they all just get along?

[Disco]

Damian, It wasen't you and it wasen't me and it surely wasen't almost all of the other's that posted. But alas, I fear there is someone who gives the impression of being confused. In multiple threads no less. Our duty is clear, we must stand tall and offer our assistance to unbridle the confusion that has overtaken our fellow poster.:D

[fissure]

What part of florida are you from

West Palm.

[DAC..florida]

Back to the topic, I heard that there were 10 original kwons and also some off shoots does any one here know the names.

[Galvatron]

Moo Duk Kwan, Chi Do Kwan, Chung Do Kwan, Song Moo Kwan, Chang Moo Kwan, Yun Moo Kwan, and the Oh Do Kwan are the only ones I'm readily aware of. I'm sure there are more though.

[Disco]

http://winstonstableford.com/p04.html

Gives the history of TKD.:asian:

[Damian Mavis]

That history seems to contain a few mistakes such as the description of ITF sparring as point sparring and General Choi not wanting to use continous sparring. If he didn't want to use continuous sparring and he left as a result of that then why did he continue to use continuous sparring after he was totally in control of his own federation?! I'm always shocked the stuff people beleive without actually seeing for themselves firsthand.... you know ITF tells eachother that WTF is soft and weak and a game and WTF tells eachother the exact same thing... it's really silly. I go out and check them all out and realise it's all the same basically.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Disco]

I've got to agree with you. With GM Choi no longer with us, I wonder if things will change? Anyway, it does list the kwans as DAC was asking for.
:asian:

[WaterCircleHarmony]

i asked a WTF friend who General Choi was. He didn't know but was a 1st dan.

[Langdow]

Why should he have to know who Gen Choi is? He was not a part of the WTF and many schools never acknowledge him in any way. True he is part of TKD history, but just because a person is a 1st dan doesn't require that they know who Gen Choi is.

[progressivetactics]

agreed.....but really....I haven't been in TKD for about 20 years, And I know who he is/was.
Not everyone is a historian, but shouldn't some of the key figures of different arts (or the same arts) be taught in class?

[Galvatron]

Some people don't research their art beyond what they are taught, and for various reasons I'm sure many instructors under the WTF umbrella don't mention General Choi.
How many 1st dans can tell you who the current president of the WTF is??

[Kodanjaclay]

<<Why should he have to know who Gen Choi is? He was not a part of the WTF and many schools never acknowledge him in any way. True he is part of TKD history, but just because a person is a 1st dan doesn't require that they know who Gen Choi is.>>

This is not entirely accurate. His actions helped contribute to the rise of the WTF. For historical reasons, he should be honored. It was he who unified the Kwans under the KTA. It was he who chose to use TKD as a method of remembering history. Granted, I don't care for some of the old politics, and being former military, I resent his traitorous actions; however, he was who he was, and like it or not, he made a significant contribution to both primary stles of TKD.

[progressivetactics]

but i never rec'd my first in TKD.

But maybe that is another good post idea......Should history teaching be a more dominant part of the arts?

[Kodanjaclay]

I believe it should. One cannot learn too much, but one can certainly learn too little.

[Damian Mavis]

Maybe I'm wrong about this but I was told South Korea actually wrote General Choi completely out of Korean History... which would explain how come WTF people know nothing about him. If it is true I think that is pretty disgusting only because whether good or bad you shouldn't erase people and their contributions to the world..... that just seems like one of the worst things you can do. Of course I guess the saying history is written by the victors comes from somewere and this is just another example.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Kodanjaclay]

Damian,

I can't say for certain. What I can say is that in the Kukkiwon Textbook, he is not mentioned in the history section of the book at all. I have to agree. While I do not support Communism, and I disapprove of some his choices, they were his choices, and his contributions should be honored. I do not practice ITF TKD, much i make sure my students know who Major General Choi was. I think that if it had not been for him, Taekwondo as we know it, may not exist.

[Langdow]

I agree with you all about Gen Choi . . . however my point being that a 1st Dan WTF student does not make him worse off for the study of TKD. It may make them or their instructor ignorant for not learning the history, but as TKD stylist it doesn't make them worse off.

I strongly feel history is important, but it doesn't impact my training one bit in the sense that I can't perform a low block more effectively if I know/or don't this history.

[DAC..florida]

Disco,

Great information I do appreciate it.




Im not going to sat that it should be requirement for someone to know who general Choi was but I do find it hard to believe that someone could study an art for any long periode and never at least look at the history.
:asian:

[progressivetactics]

besides The standard TSD people, my students have some familiarity with Gichin Funokoshi, Bruce Lee, Jigoro Kano, yip Man, Dan Inosanto, Gen Choi, JooBang Lee, Tadashi Yamashita, Moreiha Ueshiba, etc...We discuss, and explain a bit about other arts.

[Langdow]

Progressivetactics . . .
Why do you feel it's important to discuss these people with your students?
Just curious
:asian: