BB how long ?

[tshadowchaser]

After reading the thread 1 in 2000 I think it may be time to review a thread topic which I know has been used before:
How long dose it take to make Black Belt in your school/organization/ system?
Under 2 years
2-4 years
3-5 years
5-10 years
10 plus years
Now give an average because we all know some get there faster than others.
Also if a student starts at say age 5 when is the earliest he can reach Black Belt?
If you want you may add the requirements for BB, number of forms, number of self-defense moves, etc.

[Blindside]

For my instructor's kenpo school the average to black is about 6 years, the fastest on record was 3.5 years and that was a student with experience in a related system.

Given those numbers conceivably a 5 year old could make black by 11ish, but in the 33 years the school has been open the youngest to test for a jr. black rank was 16. I think we had three of them that tested at that age. As a note, the kids work off the same curriculum as the adults, we just can't test them with full contact on their black belt test.

[Miles]

My average is 3-5yrs.

Can a 5yr old get a black belt? No, in TKD (Kukkiwon) this is a "poom" which is an acknowledgment that the student under the age of 15 has met the physical requirements but is not mentally prepared to be a dan holder.

[searcher]

3-5 for my students to be eligible to test for BB. My students can test for a jr BB ages 5-16 and then come over to the adult ranks at 16(but they have to retest for the adult rank).

We have a 50 man fight for adult BB ranks that is non-negotiable, that most adults have trouble with. I would never put a kid through somehting like that. They also have to do teh adult test break.

[rlobrecht]

2 - 4 years at my school. Kids are allowed to earn a black belt, but it's the same curriculum for all.

For the 1st Dan test, you have to perform the first 9 ITF patterns, 12 or so self-defense moves, a ton of bag work (appx. 40 different attacks - at least 10 times per side), point sparring, and board breaking with both hands and feet. Our school has just started teaching weapons to colored belts, so I'm not sure how that will be incorporated into the BB test.

Rick

[terryl965]

Well Sheldon my ansawer is in between it takes four to seven years at my school. We do have junior B.B,'s but they are poom ranks and it will take a five year old until he is 12 to get that. There have only been a few poom ranks in my school below 12 two being my sons and the other two's being TX_BB two sons but they all started by the time they was walking so no fair I know. Right now all of them are Poom ranks except my oldest Zachary he is 16 and holds the rank of a Dan.

[CrimsonPhoenix]

The average is 4-5 years at the school I'm in. However, when this question is asked, it is always followed by: "The majority don't get their black belt in 4 years. Most earn it in 5-6."

In our system, kids aren't allowed to test for black. The required age to test is either 16 or 18.

Also, in the time that I've been a student at my school, I've only seen two tests for BB. We're small so the tests are rare occurances. Each one was an individualized test that was about 3-4 hours long and designed to push the student to their personal limit, which means that no black belt test is going to be the same. They are still tested on all of the material though. I know this isn't unique, but I really like the way it's done. Even if there were two candidates who were ready to test at the same time, their tests would be on different days.

[chaos1551]

I'm not sure about the length of time it would require to earn BB in my school. Looking at my rate of progress and looking ahead at what I have to learn to get to BB, I estimate the total time to BB as roughly seven years. I hope that, as my kids get older, I can devote more time to my training and shave that down to five or six. Unfortunately, I can hardly conceptualize all the material I need to learn between now (orange) and then.

[Big Don]

When I test for my Black Belt at the end of next month, it will be five years and three weeks. Exactly.

[Cirdan]

A dedicated student will typically take 7 years to reach BB at our club. It is possible but pretty hard to do it any faster unless you have prior MA training that relates. I would guess the percentage that reach BB is a bit below 1%

BB curriculum includes 14 kata, 13 one steps, 10 advanced two man drills, takedowns, leg block drill, joint locks and pushing hands. Plus a lot of the usual basics, sparring, pad work and ukemi. Instruction is also mandatory for the higher Kyu levels.

You can not test for BB until you are 16. There is a junior BB but no one has ever tested for it so I am not sure if there is a minimum age. Anyway most kids reach the age where they start to learn the adult stuff before they reack kid BB.

We usually don`t accept students below the age of 7 because they don`t have the needed coordination to benefit from the training yet. Some do and have been allowed to join.

[ATC]

5 - 6 years but there are those that do it faster but not by much.

[Korppi76]

I think I should have voted 5-10 instead of 3-5 I voted.
Black Belt can be done in less than 4 years but I have never heard anybody doing that. 5 years seems normal if your club has good teachers who help you to get it. But most people spent more time to get it. This is for Aikikai aikido.


Edit.
If someone starts aikido at age of 5 then s/he can get black belt at age of 16 and 3.kyu at age 13. (juniors have 8 kyu system which has even some sub ranks. I dont know how those sub ranks works.)

[Drac]

A lot depends on the student..How fast does he/she pick up and retain the new techniques? Can they explain what it is they are doing? There is no kata in the Combat Hapkido system so its all about technique and their execution in a self defense situation..

[Stac3y]

Our "official" line is that it takes 3-5 years. I don't think anyone has ever made it in 3--you would have to train 5 nights a week and never get sick or injured, I think. I will test this fall after 4 years of training. Minimum age for an adult black belt is 16, but 16 year old black belt candidates are few and far between.

Our junior students don't get the same type of black belt as adults; they get a junior black (has a white stripe running through it). It takes them 5+ years, so most of them don't get it, as we move juniors to the adult class at age 13.

[SahBumNimRush]

I took me almost 7 years to earn my black belt, although the bare minimum anyone can earn their black belt in our organization is 3 years. I earned my black belt in 1991, and I will admit the standards were higher back then in our organization than they seem to be now. These days the majority of the students make black belt around 3-4 years, but in my school it can be much longer, because I am trying to maintain the standards that I was raised in as best I can.

I believe the youngest black belt we've ever awarded in our association was to an 11 year old. I don't think that is a bad thing necessarily. It gives the student ample time to grow into their rank without getting burnt out as a gup. They typically stay a 1st dan for a good while, because from a maturity stand point it can take a while to grow into that rank.

[MJS]

After reading the thread 1 in 2000 I think it may be time to review a thread topic which I know has been used before:
How long dose it take to make Black Belt in your school/organization/ system?
Under 2 years
2-4 years
3-5 years
5-10 years
10 plus years
Now give an average because we all know some get there faster than others.
Also if a student starts at say age 5 when is the earliest he can reach Black Belt?
If you want you may add the requirements for BB, number of forms, number of self-defense moves, etc.

5-6 yrs. Of course, IMHO, I dont think there should be time frames, and I dont think people should ask when they're going to be promoted. Why? Time frames give false impressions to people. People assume that once the time is reached, the BB will be given. IMO, it should be solely up to the inst.

As for young students...well, IMO, I'm not a fan of kids starting at that age, but times change I guess. Anyways...regardless of what age they start, if I had it my way, a full BB would not be given until at least 16. I'm fine with the Jr. BB, as its not a full BB, and it will also allow the student to learn the rest of the material, as usually kids are put on a modified material program, meaning they are not learning what an adult would.

[Cirdan]

I also train at a Ju Jutsu Dojo so I`ll make a post about BB at that place too.

BB typically takes 5-6 years. There used to be a minimum time between gradings that would add up to four and a half years for black belt. It is not unusual for some students to stay at brown belt for a long time, getting ready for the test takes focused training. Not that you have to be young and atletic to do it, we had one impressive gentleman who passed at age 70.

Minimum age for 1. Dan is 18, there is no kid black. Kid kyu ranks are treated as two belts below adults. If you start very young and reach full brown belt as a young teenager you will keep that rank until you are 18. Doesn`t mean you won`t be taught according to your skill tho.

The system has been changed recently so there is no official BB curriculum. Tests are usually 95% pair work doing combinations with strikes, throws, locks, ground fighting and self defense.

[Brandon Fisher]

I said 3-5 no one has ever done it in under 3 years and only one did it in 3 years but he was in the dojo 6 days week 4 - 5 hours a day on average.

[Blade96]

about 6-7 years in our style (shotokan).

Big Don, good luck on that BB test! I hope you pass!

[Big Don]

Big Don, good luck on that BB test! I hope you pass!
Thanks, I need it. Stress is NOT my friend...

[Blade96]

Thanks, I need it. Stress is NOT my friend...

Don't worry. Some wise shotokanka told me to make friends with your butterflies and your stress. Because having stress means that you understand the importance of the event and the importance of what is about to happen.

This was told to me when I was a white belt and about to have my own grading to pass from white to yellow.

Another wise one in my dojo, Yondan, also told me that in his opinion the two hardest ones are the yellow belt test and the black belt. Guess I did ok by passing the yellow, my Yondan told me after that he failed his the first time.

I thought this advice might help in your case as well.

[Sandpaperhead]

My instructor has yet to give a black belt to any of his students... I think he expects a few thousand hours of training before administering a black belt. How he got his blackbelt was one day the grandmaster came over while he was training, pulled him aside and handed it to him.

According to my instructor though it takes about 5 years before black belt... but there are practitioners of this style that take longer.

About 5 year old kids... my instructor doesn't like teaching people under 15.

[Kyosanim]

I realize why this is an issue, but I think to much emphasis is placed on rank in the martial arts especially the dan grades. Why not just do the art for the sake of doing it? Just because your a black belt does not mean you can't be beaten.

Just my perspective.

[Big Don]

Five years and two days

[Cirdan]

Congrats, Big Don!

:-partyon:

[tellner]

It depends very much on what a "Black Belt" means in your system. And that is as artificial and socially-constructed as everything else related to martial arts ranks.

If it means "Can maintain his own training in the basic formal curriculum" that's one thing.

If it means "Can pass on the entire system by himself and raise others to the point where they can" that's different.

If it means "Can hold his own in a fight with the other Black Belts" it's something else entirely.

Pick your definition. That will answer the question.

[Maiden_Ante]

I think you're required to train at least for five years in my dojo... but I'd guess it takes more time for most people since they might not graduate every term.

[Dirty Dog]

I voted 5-10, but it seems that 4-8 would be more accurate. There have been (as always...) exceptions by those with prior training. Since we joined this school, there has been one BB promotion, after (I think) 10 years of training. And one to Cho Don Bo who has been with the school for about 6 years. This is a WTF affiliated school, Moo Duk Kwan, using the Palgwe forms for geup ranks.

June will be one year at this school for my wife and I and 4 months for my daughter. My wife is currently 7th geup, and my daughter will likely test for her 8th geup in June. My wife and I train 2-3 classes/week, each 2-2.5 hours long, and train about 2 hours a day at home, including class days. My daughter is 21 and lives alone, but I think she gets in about an hour a day, and on class days she comes over and works with me for about an hour before class. I think both of them are at or slightly ahead of the 'average'.

[Xue Sheng]

Traditional CMA, we don't have any belt ranks so I guess the answer would be never

[Shifu Steve]

First of all in my opinion I think the only ranks that matter are student, teacher, and master. Everything else is filler. You learn until you’re ready to teach. You teach until you have mastered the content. Once you’ve mastered the content you continue to learn, improve, and see things in new ways. I didn't vote because I think how long it took me personally is irrelevant. I know phenomenal fighters that should not be given permission to teach within their systems. They cannot convey the information they’ve learned effectively. My understanding is that the black belt rank is the first rank that formally recognizes the student can teach others. This is a great responsibility and can impact the lineage of the style or system. It’s for this reason that I think there should be no average time it should take to achieve such a rank. It’s dependant on the student.

Those particular ranks matter to me because they hold significance. Not everyone is equipped to teach and not every teacher has mastered their subject(s). The whole belt ranking system is beyond me. I don’t know this for a fact (I’m sure someone on this site does) but isn’t the belt system relatively new (like in the last 100 years)?

[Brandon Fisher]

Those that cannot on convey info but are technically very good is where the saying that there are black belts and then there are sensei's comes from.

[Milt G.]

Hello,

I think that four to five years is optimal for promotion to Shodan, or 1st black. Of course this will vary some from practitioner to practitioner.

NEVER less then three years.

Thank you,
Milt G.

[Balrog]

I think there's an option missing from the poll:

As long as it needs to.

[Steve]

It's still an average of 10 years in BJJ, I think. I know that my coach just promoted his first two black belts this last weekend. They've both been training for a long time. Bill has been training for about 10 years and Todd's been training for closer to 14 years.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Where I got my Black belt, the shortest I know was 4years.
This guy trained in class 4-5 times a week and he also trained at home 3-4 hours a week. He got his SHodan and a year later he was gone.

The longest took 12 years.

I took 5.

In the school we run now, we have 6 Kyu ranks, you will spend 9 months to a year and a half at each rank, depending on attendence, ability and spirit/commitment.

We won't train children, I do a kids class but it's a hodgpodge of things I hav learned in all the arts I have studied and geared towards little kids having fun and become aware of how to move their bodies. I dont have ranks in this class.

My Son's will be let in under 14 but only if they get a Shodan in another art or do a combat sport for awhile. That be the only way I can see someone under 18 becoming a Black belt. If they were a Legacy, earned a Belt somewhere else and then trained with us and acts like a grown up.

[mcmoon]

First of all in my opinion I think the only ranks that matter are student, teacher, and master. Everything else is filler. You learn until you’re ready to teach. You teach until you have mastered the content. Once you’ve mastered the content you continue to learn, improve, and see things in new ways. I didn't vote because I think how long it took me personally is irrelevant. I know phenomenal fighters that should not be given permission to teach within their systems. They cannot convey the information they’ve learned effectively. My understanding is that the black belt rank is the first rank that formally recognizes the student can teach others. This is a great responsibility and can impact the lineage of the style or system. It’s for this reason that I think there should be no average time it should take to achieve such a rank. It’s dependant on the student.

Those particular ranks matter to me because they hold significance. Not everyone is equipped to teach and not every teacher has mastered their subject(s). The whole belt ranking system is beyond me. I don’t know this for a fact (I’m sure someone on this site does) but isn’t the belt system relatively new (like in the last 100 years)?


yea the belt ranking system came from judo

[ap Oweyn]

Took me about 10 years to earn a black belt. Though that was completely unrelated to style or organization. I nearly got a black belt in taekwondo, then left the system and began the whole affair again in eskrima. Got a black belt in eskrima in 94. And haven't set foot in a ranking system since.

[Daniel Sullivan]

After reading the thread 1 in 2000 I think it may be time to review a thread topic which I know has been used before:
How long dose it take to make Black Belt in your school/organization/ system?
Under 2 years
2-4 years
3-5 years
5-10 years
10 plus years
Now give an average because we all know some get there faster than others.
Also if a student starts at say age 5 when is the earliest he can reach Black Belt?
If you want you may add the requirements for BB, number of forms, number of self-defense moves, etc.
I answered three to five as it applies to students that I teach privately.

I keep students in the current rank material until they are reasonably proficient in it. One student was 10th geub for four months. Another for eight. I won't move them to the next grade material for at least three months. This is not accounting for students who have previous experience in a similar art who can just pick it up toot sweet. So far, however, I don't have any of those.

Daniel