*Creating Power*

[Kenpo Yahoo]

How do you generate power for your strikes (kicks, punches, elbows etc.)? Feel free to pick any of the above. If you like... talk about muscle groups, body mechanics, and all that stuff.

Just trying to promote some thought. Not that I don't like talking about who's better than who, or why kenpo is or isn't effective, but I just thought we might do a little headwork for a while.

Any one interested?

[clapping_tiger]

Yesssss..... a non-political thread!!!

Basically I like to think of the power in my hand strikes comes mostly from the legs, and rotational force. Example, The basic reverse punch. As you extend the punch you transition into a lunge stance. The driving force begins from the back leg and extends out and penetrates through the knuckles. I feel that in order to have a powerful kick, any kick, you need to have a solid base. I think it's obvious that you legs are naturally stronger than you arms and easily have more that enough raw power to cause a lot of damage, the trick is to be able to pull it off properly. Practice, practice, practice the basics. If your weight is not directly over you supporting leg, you are either falling away from the target, falling into the target (ooo that could be very bad), or bounce off the target. On any of these options you are not in control of your body and may end up on the ground or find yourself wide open for a counter strike. As for elbows and knees, I think these weapons naturally have a lot of power, maybe it’s just me.

Now is it all just that simple, heck no. But it is a start.

[Arthur]

Spinal waves and the release of tension from antagonist muscle groups.

Arthur

[howardr]

Spinal waves and the release of tension from antagonist muscle groups.

You've piqued my interest. Do tell more: what are "spinal waves," and would you please elaborate and give some examples of release tension from antagonist muscle groups in order to generate power?

Thanks.

[yamabushi]

Summation of muscle forces combined with relaxation and breath.

[tonbo]

Rotational torque from the waist?

The interaction of opposite muscle groups?

The force of bringing a large stick down on my opponent?

Maybe it's just the Force (as in, "Use the Force, Luke!").

Lotta things create power. One of my personal favorites is "borrowed force"...:)

Peace--

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Borrowed force is an excellent way to maximize your strike, but how do you create the power for THAT strike?

Would you get more power stepping backward, forward, diagonally, or from a simple rotation?

What is a more effective means of energy transfer (for strike, not a kick) heel up or heel down, or does it matter?

What about opposing forces and directional harmony, how do they factor in to all of this?

[Brother John]

How do you generate power for your strikes

suddenly - swiftly and abruptly...

repeatedly

Your (smart-Alec) Brother
John

[Matt]

Originally posted by Arthur
Spinal waves and the release of tension from antagonist muscle groups.

Arthur

That's not fair - you're not really a kenpo guy. You aren't limited by our anal retentive labeling habits! But seriously - the spinal wave and relaxation principles are nothing to sneeze at. I'm getting some serious mileage out of stuff Arthur helped me with a couple of years ago. Thanks Dude!

That and being conscious of transferrence of mass.

Matt

[satans.barber]

Be angry with whatever you're hitting, and visualise your fist/foot/elbow etc. going right through the target.

Simple, and un-scientific, but effective non-the-less....!

Ian.

(I hope this works when I hit post, I've just installed a wireless network...look Ma, no han^H^H^H^H^H^Hwires!)

[Guiseppe Betri]

Power inside of a strike, regardless of what type of strike, comes from one's spirit. Yes, muscular mass can make a powerful strike, there is more than this however. What is your belief and how strong is your belief? Power is generated from within, from within one's heart and spirit.

[Les]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo

One:
Borrowed force is an excellent way to maximize your strike, but how do you create the power for THAT strike?

Two:
What is a more effective means of energy transfer (for strike, not a kick) heel up or heel down, or does it matter?




One:
Timing will enhance the power derived from using borrowed force.

Two:
This one really depends on if you are generating forward momentum or not.

I hope this is vague enough to stimulate some elaboration from other wiser members. :)

Les

[Klondike93]

Yes Arthur do tell :)


:p

[Straight Blast]

Bruce Lee said think of your center line as a hinge and slam you fist as you would slam a door (or something like that)

[LoneWolfandCub]

to quote Chubs on Happy Gilmore....
it's alllllllllllll in the hips baby...it's allllllllllllll in the hips

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by LoneWolfandCub
to quote Chubs on Happy Gilmore....
it's alllllllllllll in the hips baby...it's allllllllllllll in the hips


As well as legs, feet, upper body, shoulders, arms more than just the hips.


:p

[Touch Of Death]

I kneel in to my strikes. Sort of like a drop and push. To give an example of some power strikes... When practicing a spinnig back kick, don't pirrouette. Turn into a full reverse close kneel and perfom a back kick from that position. Put the two moves toguether and BAM you have power in you spinnig back kick.
Just a suggestion.

[LoneWolfandCub]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I kneel in to my strikes. Sort of like a drop and push. To give an example of some power strikes... When practicing a spinnig back kick, don't pirrouette. Turn into a full reverse close kneel and perfom a back kick from that position. Put the two moves toguether and BAM you have power in you spinnig back kick.
Just a suggestion.

Hmmm marriage of gravity, back up mass, and body allignment sound a little like this :) The key is to make it all gel or synchronize these elements

[LoneWolfandCub]

Originally posted by Klondike93
As well as legs, feet, upper body, shoulders, arms more than just the hips.


:p

Yeah a little of all that....synchronizing your right :) just didnt want to miss a good chance to use a happy gilmore reference!

[rmcrobertson]

Me being me, I'll note the mistakes in generating power I see most commonly:

1. Using the shoulders and biceps alone.
2. Failing to bend the knees.
3. Letting the toes stick out.
4. Fake "forward bows," with no weight transfer.
5. Trying to generate too much power too early in your training, and a resulting set of cheap imitations of the way someone generating power looks.
6. Reaching too far.
7. Stiffening the muscles too soon.
8. Not rotating.
9. Rotating part of the body/limbs away from the direction of most of the body.
10. Inhaling.
11. Not bending the knees.

[Klondike93]

7. Stiffening the muscles too soon.

Which muscles are you refering to?



10. Inhaling.

This is wrong? You should be able to hit with equal power whether inhaling or exhaling shouldn't you?




:p

[rmcrobertson]

Uh...#7 was very funny, and ya gots me on that one...or do I just have an evil mind?

As for the second point, well, maybe you can punch hard while you're inhaling, but I get the old reverse kiai effect...kinda like the Thermidorians in "Galaxy Quest."

[Klondike93]

That's what happens when there's too much tension in the rest of your body. If your body is relaxed while punching, you could inhale just as easily as exhale on a strike. Also think of your arm as a whip and not a battering ram when punching and see what happens.




:p

[rmcrobertson]

Well, sure, I guess.

Hate to sound excessively miffed, but I don't believe I used the idea of the arm as a battering ram. I think, in fact, that the whole point of not inhaling (unless you're Clinton...come to think of it, given his later adventures with Monica, the inhaling/exhaling pattern becomes kinda interesting, if you get my drift about which way the wind's blowing) as you strike is so that the arm doesn't "stiffen," prematurely.

Still--kiai while you inhale?

I'm glad Freud's dead, so he can't read this.

[Klondike93]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you did that, it was my way illustrating what I mean.

Why kiai? What is the purpose that it really serves? I figure after being in MA for almost 30 years now I better start asking questions that have been on my mind for a while now.




:asian:

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Klondike93
Sorry, didn't mean to imply you did that, it was my way illustrating what I mean.

Why kiai? What is the purpose that it really serves? I figure after being in MA for almost 30 years now I better start asking questions that have been on my mind for a while now.




:asian:

I do hope you're joking about not knowing what a KIAI is for, if not, you've wasted 30 years. It's prevalent in many other activities such as tennis, weightlifting, canoeing etc. , it's not unique to the martial arts. Those athletes may not know the KIAI by that name but they do know what it does.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[Klondike93]

Good answer Clyde, I know what it is, but what's it used for? What is the true purpose of it in creating power? Can you achieve the same results without it?




:asian:

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Klondike93
Good answer Clyde, I know what it is, but what's it used for? What is the true purpose of it in creating power? Can you achieve the same results without it?




:asian:

Let me say that the KIAI has stood the test of time and trial by combat, at least with me. I believe the answer you seek is explained by buoyancy. As you inhale you tend to float into the technique, exhaling tends to ground you, or basically sink into the action, thereby utilizing all your mass in the strikes. Can't say if it works on the inhale but I'll give it a go, I've never tried.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[Klondike93]

Well I was currious because I've heard a lot of people say it helps give you more power and yet with Bruce Lee's 1-inch punch he never made a sound. He just moved and the person he hit went flying. No real big movement with the hips, drawing the arm back etc, just the punch. So there in lies my interest in why the kiai.



:asian:

[Arthur]

Hmm.. maybe that explanation is better suited to the new martialtalk magazine!?!

Jere are a few clis showing slow punching with great effect. Hopefully I'l have a nice explanatory article of how this works in an upcoming issue of martial talk mag.


ArthurSlow Punch in MPG format - 4.43 MG (http://russianmartialart.org/downloads.jpunch.mpg)

Slow Punch in Windows Media 9 format - streaming (http://www.russianmartialart.org/downloads/jpunch.wmv)

Arthur

[Klondike93]

Thanks Arthur ;)



:p

[Kalicombat]

While proper body mechanics are vital in generating power, you still need to strengthen the muscles. I get alot of flack from people that I train with that say "lifting is a waste of time", "it makes you inflexible and slow", and other such nonsense. To help create power, a person that is so inclined can do so whith working the core of the body. For me, powerifting, or doing the squat, bench, and deadlift for a 4 or 5 week cycle of high intensity, low weight, and high reps (10 to 20) to strengthen the ligaments, get proper form worked into the muscle memory, and condition the muscle for HEAVIER THINGS TO COME. Then an 8 week cycle of moderate weight, moderate intensity, and medium,(6 to 10) reps, 8 week cycle of low intensity, low reps (3 to 6), and heavy weights. The squat, bench and deadlift, are compound movements and not only work muscle, ligaments, and actually work at building the skeletal system but doing these lifts with HEAVY weights also condition the central nervous system. These lifts with 2 accessory exercises per lift is sufficient for building strength, power, and mass, which is not a bad thing. Also, a regular stretching regiment will help generating power.
Personally, kenpo has saved my life, as well as powerlifting and a NO CARB DIET. I will never win any physique competitions, but have lost 265 pounds due to kenpo, lifting and diet. All my lifts are far stronger now since losing the weight, then when I was over 500 pounds.

Hope this helps.
Gary Catherman

[kenpoevolution]

Exhaling while striking serves several purposes:

1) as mensioned before, it helps to settle your body weight

2) the sound of your exhale can scare your opponent and make them lose their focus

3) exhaling provides rhythm and focus to a series of moves

[parkerkarate]

I watched a show on Bruce Lee once and I took what he talked about to heart. He talked about how water both crashes and flows. You can use this in generating power. You figure out which are major and minor moves in whatever you are doing. Then you take priciples that we have all learned such as Marriage of Gravity, and borrowed force and you incorperate that also. Everytime you hit hard you wait until the last second to tense everything all your muscles. And you must breathe, exhale when you strike, leave nothing behind. Everytime you hit you don't focus on the front of the target but on the back. Most of these things came from Bruce Lee and they work.

[8253]

Does power not come from the mind?

[Touch Of Death]

I've been reading on other threads that perhaps it is possible to increase power by slowing your strike down. Does this make sense to anyone?

[Matt]

Originally posted by Klondike93
Thanks Arthur ;)



:p

I never get tired of watching that clip...:rofl:

It was even better seeing it live. :D

[KenpoDave]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I've been reading on other threads that perhaps it is possible to increase power by slowing your strike down. Does this make sense to anyone?

I see slowing yourself down as an effective way to increase your power only because you become more aware of correct timing and mechanics. I would not say that a slower punch is more powerful than a faster punch.

Meanwhile, I attribute generating power to the strength and speed of the limb, the rotational force of the body, and the forward momentum of the body, all applied within the parameters of correct timing and distance.

[psi_radar]

Spinal waves and the release of tension from antagonist muscle groups.

The bruises are still fading from all the spinal waves I was on the receiving end of this past weekend at Vlad's seminar.

[howardr]

Originally posted by Kalicombat
Personally, kenpo has saved my life, as well as powerlifting and a NO CARB DIET. I will never win any physique competitions, but have lost 265 pounds due to kenpo, lifting and diet. All my lifts are far stronger now since losing the weight, then when I was over 500 pounds.

Hope this helps.
Gary Catherman

A hearty congratulations Gary!!! That is an amazing accomplishment. That's the sort of thing people need to hear when good people, such as Dr. Atkins, are being bashed as they are right now. I know I feel my best when I am eating somewhere in between Atkins and The Zone (good proteins, relatively small amount of low-glycemic carbs).

Congrats again!

[Sapper6]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo
How do you generate power for your strikes (kicks, punches, elbows etc.)? Feel free to pick any of the above. If you like... talk about muscle groups, body mechanics, and all that stuff.

Just trying to promote some thought. Not that I don't like talking about who's better than who, or why kenpo is or isn't effective, but I just thought we might do a little headwork for a while.

Any one interested?

Check out this book, "Zen in the Martial Arts" By Joe Hyams

[Rick Wade]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I've been reading on other threads that perhaps it is possible to increase power by slowing your strike down. Does this make sense to anyone?

Look at the Paul Mills clip in which he executes a block.

I thought that was a joke and I asked an AKKI 4th degree member about it and he personally shoed me that slow block generating power. I was in pain on my arm for a solid 48 hours and it was still tender for a week. He also showed me how to do it. It was awesome.

Thanks
Rick

[kenpo_cory]

Well I was currious because I've heard a lot of people say it helps give you more power and yet with Bruce Lee's 1-inch punch he never made a sound. He just moved and the person he hit went flying. No real big movement with the hips, drawing the arm back etc, just the punch. So there in lies my interest in why the kiai.



:asian:

Well, I think Bruce is generating power through mostly rotational force but in a very short distance. There is no big movement but more of a twitch, internal energy being released in a very short movement. It's like a wave traveling up through the body and out the arm. My instructor is very good at using that principle. As far as the kiai, I don’t think it HAS to make a sound; you can expel a large amount of air with out the sound. But I have never seen a video with sound of Bruce Lee doing that 1-inch punch.

[kenpo3631]

"Rotational torque"

Is there another kind of torque? :idunno:

[kenpo_cory]

"Rotational torque"

Is there another kind of torque? :idunno:

Dont think so. But I didnt use the term torque, I said rotational FORCE.

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Let's not miss the obvious. If technical superiority in the Martial Arts is the equalizer against the big guy, what do you do when the big guy is as good as you are?

Work on your technical game (i.e., marriage of gravity), but strength-train like a mad man too. The bigger you are, the harder you'll hit. And don't forget to train legs...you can't fire a cannon out of a canoe.

My Kenpo sparring partner is a 265 lbs body-builder who is as quick and tricky as any of the smaller, twitchier black belts in the studio (interesting place to be, in front of a fast-moving, clear-minded train). My BJJ randori partner is a state champ power lifter, and it takes him a lot less energy to wrangle me then it does for me to chase him...not to mention he can choke somebody reeeaaaalllly hard.

And learn about the biomechanics of power. Sports physiology and kinesiology journals and texts are full of articles and research pieces on optimum form for generating ballistic kinematic forces (i.e., throwing a ball or shot put). Watch quarterbacks throw for length or speed, or an Olympic javeline thrower chuck one down field...hop, skip, jump, BAM! That's the intensity you want in a rear-hand strike...not just the mere shifting of 60/40 weight distributions in stance, but the whole-hearted intensity of a shot-putter going for gold. More strength; more momentum; more intensity; and get out of the stance box.

Mental exercise: Can you imagine SGM Parker after a couple years in the gym on juice and Growth?