Who has contributed the most to JKD?

[Kempojujutsu]

Taken what Bruce Lee made, it seems JKD has gotten more complexed, then what it was back in the late 60's early 70's. Which martial artist do you think has help push or expand JKD to 2003?
Bob:asian:

[Touch Of Death]

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

I would imagin it might be Dan Insanto but that is just my geuss:asian:

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death


Nice reply for an honest question.

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad
Nice reply for an honest question.
I miss read the question and gave the answer based on TKD. Once I reread the question, I edited the answer. So sue me!

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I miss read the question and gave the answer based on TKD. Once I reread the question, I edited the answer. So sue me!

Someone seems touchy. The only reply I saw your signature line and nothing else. So I must have seen it after you editied it.

[Withered Soul]

Bruce Lee?;)
Hmm. I'd say Rick Young and John Little (the guy who edited Bruce's books).

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Withered Soul
Bruce Lee?;)
Hmm. I'd say Rick Young and John Little (the guy who edited Bruce's books).

I would think its a no brainer with the answer being Dan Inosanto who physically and philisophically has done more than any other individual JKD'er.

John Little is just an writer/editer. Who is Ric Young? Is he downline from Dan?

:asian:

[Kempojujutsu]

IMO I would have to say Dan I. Would you consider Larry Hartsell, a major contributor to JKD?
Bob :asian:

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu
IMO I would have to say Dan I. Would you consider Larry Hartsell, a major contributor to JKD?
Bob :asian:

Yes I would consider Larry Hartsell a major contributor and a man of his word. Being one of Bruces "original" students, he humbly achknowledges Dan Inosanto as his instructor.

:asian:

[IMAA]

None other than Sifu Dan Inosanto. Since Sigung Lee's death Dan has made it his life long passion to pass on Bruce's teachings and philosophies. Most of those out there that are JKD'ers today have only came to light thru Dan Inosanto. Yes in the last 25yrs new names, old names, same names have come alight and praised JKD as the only true system. We have alot of people that have helped contribute to JKD.
Larry Hartsell, Steve Golden, Pat Strong, Tim Tackett, Taky Kimura and his son Andy, Jerry Poteet, these to name a few. A couple off the top of my head of the JKDC group im sure Vunak, Burton Richardson, and some others. Then you have the groups like the Progressive fighting Systems people, the Combative Solutions groups, Straight Blast Gym and their gorillas. and the small timers w/ no names like most of us on here. And of course you can't forget those that have squashed the name of JKD like those of Gary Dill, Lamar Davis, Ron Prather. JKD has all grown but thru only one Man and that has to go back to Guro/Sifu Dan Inosanto. Its up to us as to keep it strong and proper. If it is going to stay running for another 30yrs.

JUST my opinion.
thanks

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by IMAA

And of course you can't forget those that have squashed the name of JKD like those of Gary Dill, Lamar Davis, Ron Prather. JKD has all grown but thru only one Man and that has to go back to Guro/Sifu Dan Inosanto. Its up to us as to keep it strong and proper. If it is going to stay running for another 30yrs.

JUST my opinion.
thanks

Can you elaborate?

:asian:

[IMAA]

No Im sorry, I probably said too much already. Im not going to take that any farther than what I already have. It's not hard to do any amount of research on the web with these guys and get the truth. In fact I dont like to be the leader of "bad" gossip so I wont, however I can lead you into the direction or source of where It's all at.....online.....
http://www.forumco.com/pauljbax/FORUM.asp?FORUM_ID=30&CAT_ID=7&Forum_Title=1%2DJeet+Kune+Do


http://www.forumco.com/bigjkd/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=1&CAT_ID=1&Forum_Title=1+%2D+Combative+Solutions+Forum

Search these sources thoroughly and ask your questions concerning these gentlemen and Im sure someone will be more than happy to give you any information on these guys you wish to know. As for me I know one of those guys personally and have seen him in action. And I wont comment on anything because Im just not the gossiper. ENOUGH SAID......again too much info already......thanks

Cory

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by IMAA
No Im sorry, I probably said too much already. Im not going to take that any farther than what I already have. It's not hard to do any amount of research on the web with these guys and get the truth. In fact I dont like to be the leader of "bad" gossip so I wont, however I can lead you into the direction or source of where It's all at.....online.....
http://www.forumco.com/pauljbax/FORUM.asp?FORUM_ID=30&CAT_ID=7&Forum_Title=1%2DJeet+Kune+Do


http://www.forumco.com/bigjkd/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=1&CAT_ID=1&Forum_Title=1+%2D+Combative+Solutions+Forum

Search these sources thoroughly and ask your questions concerning these gentlemen and Im sure someone will be more than happy to give you any information on these guys you wish to know. As for me I know one of those guys personally and have seen him in action. And I wont comment on anything because Im just not the gossiper. ENOUGH SAID......again too much info already......thanks

Cory

After I asked I did find something. But I was leaning towards Gary Dill. Dill was James student for about a year while my Sigung was James student for 10 years. He has said that Dill wasn't a bad guy. I was wondering if you were talking about marketing practices.

I don't blame you either for not wanting to "talk bad."!!

:asian:

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by IMAA
No Im sorry, I probably said too much already. Im not going to take that any farther than what I already have. It's not hard to do any amount of research on the web with these guys and get the truth. In fact I dont like to be the leader of "bad" gossip so I wont, however I can lead you into the direction or source of where It's all at.....online.....
http://www.forumco.com/pauljbax/FORUM.asp?FORUM_ID=30&CAT_ID=7&Forum_Title=1%2DJeet+Kune+Do


http://www.forumco.com/bigjkd/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=1&CAT_ID=1&Forum_Title=1+%2D+Combative+Solutions+Forum

Search these sources thoroughly and ask your questions concerning these gentlemen and Im sure someone will be more than happy to give you any information on these guys you wish to know. As for me I know one of those guys personally and have seen him in action. And I wont comment on anything because Im just not the gossiper. ENOUGH SAID......again too much info already......thanks

Cory

All that I found on Gary Dill was someone questioning a letter from James Lee to teach. The fact that it came 2 weeks before James death is nothing. Everyone knew James was sick, but nobody knew how bad. If Bruce would of known that he was "deathly" sick, he would of been by his side!

That letter was authenticated by Taky Kimura and Linda Lee publically. And of all people, Linda would know James writing and signature. She lived in James house during the Oakland years.:confused:

Can you send me a "more direct" link?

:asian:

[IMAA]

Concerning Proff. Dill, I don't have anything against him either. He seems to have a great insight on what JKD is and is not. I can't comment on him as a Martial Artist at all... I have never seen him move or whatever. His marketing skills im sure are what others are concerned with from Prof. Dill also. I talked with Proff Dill on the phone about 2 yrs ago briefly, about his summer training camp and he sent me a bunch of info on him, and James Lee. I read over it and I honestly didnt see much wrong with anything he put in it...

Well take care

C. Ballinger

[progressivetactics]

I am a strong believer in Paul Vunak. I think that he really truly pushes JKD and all its positives (although he doesn't live all the positives). Of course, his knowledge/ability came through Guru Dan, so Mr. Inosanto of course gets top position, but Vunak really continues to push JKD, which is kind of what the post asked about.

Inosanto never claims JKD, although it is certainly his to claim, now.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by progressivetactics
I am a strong believer in Paul Vunak. I think that he really truly pushes JKD and all its positives (although he doesn't live all the positives). Of course, his knowledge/ability came through Guru Dan, so Mr. Inosanto of course gets top position, but Vunak really continues to push JKD, which is kind of what the post asked about.

Inosanto never claims JKD, although it is certainly his to claim, now.

Heres a couple of links for the Full Instructors under Dan Inosanto and Paul Vunak. Dans lists 284 Full Instructors and they are just the current members! Voo's is just a fraction of that, although in my opinion he is somewhere up at the top.

http://www.inosanto.com/cgi-bin/database/a76b-7626.cgi

http://www.fighting.net/instructors.php


:asian:

[KennethKu]

Reading his latest BS in some of the mags, Vunak is bizillion miles away from the core concepts of JKD. Whatever happened to being "direct, simple and economic of motion"? On his way to hoping on the BJJ bangwagon, Vunak has tossed the core JKD ideas out the window.

[KennethKu]

The truth be told, the people who understand more about JKD, are people who are not involved in teaching JKD. Lee's fellow WC students when he was under Yip Man, have great insight into what JKD really is. Hawkin Cheung and William Cheung, have written insightful articles detailing the essence of JKD, both strenght, weakness and its core essence.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by KennethKu
The truth be told, the people who understand more about JKD, are people who are not involved in teaching JKD. Lee's fellow WC students when he was under Yip Man, have great insight into what JKD really is. Hawkin Cheung and William Cheung, have written insightful articles detailing the essence of JKD, both strenght, weakness and its core essence.

The truth be told, the people who understand more about JKD, are people who ARE involved in teaching JKD!

Those old guys knew Bruce well, but what JKD "was" and what JKD "is" are not one in the same! :D

[sercuerdasfigther]

akja,

that leads to the question "is jkd any better today then it was?"

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by sercuerdasfigther
akja,

that leads to the question "is jkd any better today then it was?"

First “those old guys” were not JKD people. They were Bruces peers in Hong Kong. Bruce left Hong Kong when he was 18. He stayed in contact with them, but they were not his students and and I don’t believe that they would of really “seen" JKD for what is. They themselves, all of them, have been and are still "bound" by their traditional systems.

Now I think that today JKD is what Bruce “in the end,” ultimately wanted for his art. JKD is about ourselves exploring our self-knowledge and self-discovery of “our” ultimate reality of combat.

But we must accept the bitter with the sweet. For the Yin to exist, there must be Yang. The politics and confusion of “whose right” is the bitter and the sweet is when we actually achieve our ultimate reality of combat.

If you listen to Helio Gracie, he says that all Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. It all came from the Gracies. It is similar with JKD. It all came from Bruce. First the techniques. Then the concepts and philosophical aspects of how to choose our techniques and make them work.

If I come to the conclusion that Bruces “Original” method is a great method to expand on. There should not be a problem. But why the label of OJKD or JKDC. I hear and see a lot and what most describe as JKD and what they are describing “both” OJKD and JKDC is me.

I do see though that the concern is valid on both sides and sometimes I do lean in 1 particular direction. What I don’t agree with on the concept portion is that JKD is not an art. It is not 100% concepts and philosophy. If it was, it would only exist in our minds or it would be taught in every martial art school imaginable with no credit to JKD.

JKD is a concept and a martial art. We use the concepts combined with the art to achieve “our ultimate reality.” Todays JKD that was taught with Jun Fan as a base is both a martial art and a concept. If one is fortunate enough to understand the concepts then they have the right to do whatever they chose to with their art and or concepts.

But it is wrong to say that my way is right and your way is wrong. My way is not your way. My self-knowledge can be shared with you, but will not make it the same.

So I feel that the “way of no way, the art of no art” is definitely better today but somethings that have been done and said by the heavy hitters of the art and concepts can be done without.




:asian:

[KennethKu]

There is no such thing as JKD as a martial art. Bruce Lee had pointed out in his own words that he did NOT invented a new style, nor HIS OWN fighting method. JKD is a method (a scientific method) to train in martial arts. A true JKD practioner, applies the JKD method to learn (and refine) other martial arts. I have yet to hear any JKD people truly comprehend this point. They all yep non-stop about Jun Fan this , jun fan that, OJKD, JKDC etc etc etc. Missing the point completely. Non of those has anything to do what JKD really is. It is nothing more than Bruce Lee's method, apporach, philosophy to learn, train and apply OTHER martial arts!! It is NOT Bruce Lee's fighting method.

[KennethKu]

Akja, I didn't mean for the previous post to offend you (only mean for other JKD talkingheads in the magazines ). While I disagree to many of your viewpoints, you are still a stand up guy in my book. You believe in yourself and your skills, and that is all good. (BTW, you really don't know jack sh#$ about JKD, bro! :D )

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by KennethKu
Akja, I didn't mean for the previous post to offend you (only mean for other JKD talkingheads in the magazines ). While I disagree to many of your viewpoints, you are still a stand up guy in my book. You believe in yourself and your skills, and that is all good. (BTW, you really don't know jack sh#$ about JKD, bro! :D )

Ken, where have you been? I missed ya!

Heres a reading thats kind of in between what "we" are "seeing."

A few words from Tim Tacket an older guy from behind the scenes a bit.

"When I studied JKD with Dan Inosanto in the backyard, Bruce was still alive, and there was a way to do things. There was a way to do the lead punch. There was a way to do the side kick. These are just 2 examples of many. There is a core curriculum. This doesn't mean that you should be bound by it. If you can find a better way, by all means throw the JKD method away. JKD has a basic structure. The punches and kicks that Bruce taught work best from that structure. There are also basic prinicples. For example, Bruce said to avoid passive moves as blocking is the least efficient method of defense. He also stressed that you should have the minimum of resposes to a single stimulus. To understand JKD you need to understand its structure.


__________________
Tim Tackett"

Heres the direct link:

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?postid=74650#post74650


Also alot of Bruces "own words" contradicted himself. They're a;; in print but we have to understand "his evolution" to be able to take them in context.


:asian:

[KennethKu]

Bruce Lee's half assed attempt at mixing his philosophy with MA and without a cohesive effort to organize and structure his thought, left a bunch of confusing notes behind for John Little and other editors to sort out.

I disagree with the statement that Bruce Lee's fellow students from his Yip Man era do not know as much about Lee's JKD. If you have read their writings and analysis of JKD, you might see it differently.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by KennethKu
Bruce Lee's half assed attempt at mixing his philosophy with MA and without a cohesive effort to organize and structure his thought, left a bunch of confusing notes behind for John Little and other editors to sort out.

I disagree with the statement that Bruce Lee's fellow students from his Yip Man era do not know as much about Lee's JKD. If you have read their writings and analysis of JKD, you might see it differently.

I've read a bit here and there, but the biggest factor was that they were not physically there. Mostly they kept in contact with Bruce through letters and when Bruce would make it back to Hong Kong. That hardly makes them "authorities" on the "evolution" that Bruce went through in America. Also Bruces "attempt" at mixing philosiphy and MA was that of a "young mind."

He came here when he was 18. He no longer had an instructor and America at that time was not very skilled in MA. He set out on his own and what came of it is the changes that "Bruce" went through from age 18 to the time of his death at 32 or 33.

My Sigung was NOT trained primarily in a concept manner, nor was I but I accept both the original and concept as ONE. Thats me.

:asian:

[KennethKu]

You said you are only briefly acquanted with their analysis, yet you saw fit to dismiss their analysis.... ;) lol

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by KennethKu
You said you are only briefly acquanted with their analysis, yet you saw fit to dismiss their analysis.... ;) lol

I did not dismiss their analysis. Based on "our" other posts, I said that they were not in my opinion "authorities" compared to those who actually teach JKD.

That was what I meant anyway.

:asian:

[sniperB-4]

I would have to say Dan Inosanto, but I think that Paul Vunak and Kelly Worden have done amazing things streamlining and making JKD an even more street oriented art. They have simplified and added a new level of brutal efficiency and aggressive nature.

[Cthulhu]

Since JKD is designed to be a personalized system, as long as someone trains diligently, they are contributing the most to their JKD.

Now, if you're talking in terms of popularizing JKD, that's another matter. I'd have to say Dan Inosanto, Paul Vunak, Chris Kent, Tim Tackett, Larry Hartsell, Burton Richardson, and John Little. Not only are some of these people big names in JKD, but many of them have written fairly popular books on JKD, or in the case of Burton Richardson, write regular magazine articles about JKD.

I'm sure I've missed a few names that follow under the same criteria, but these are the ones that come immediately to mind.

Cthulhu

[Fightfan00]

I think the answer would be Guro Dan Inosonto,but to tell ya the truth who would come in to tie for first,or be a close second would be Larry Hatsell,and Richard Bustillo.

[Black Bear]

No doubt Dan Inosanto. While everyone else is debating, he's been out there doing it. Seeking out the best fighters in all the cultures of the world. I mean, the guy's a zillion years old and rolling with the Machados.

Vunak is not my favourite JKD man in the world, but anyone who talks trash without having worked with his material firsthand... meh. *shakes head*

I think the greatest innovator in JKD TODAY is Matt Thornton. Amazing scholar-warrior in the tradition of Lee. His is the cutting edge at this moment.

[Shiatsu]

I totally agree with black bear.

[Black Bear]

Wow, another Matt Thornton fan! Last place I thought I'd find one.

[Shiatsu]

You won't find many here. Combat solutions forum has some too!

[James Kovacich]

You can catch Matt Thornton aka smartmonkey here
http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/

:asian:

[Black Bear]

Whoa, Mousel's sure looks different than it did when I last visted it... five years ago?

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Black Bear
Whoa, Mousel's sure looks different than it did when I last visted it... five years ago?

The JKD discussion is a bit childish but sometimes interesting.

:asian:

[Black Bear]

Well when I went there, I had a hard time getting around. Frankly looked a little tacky. I hang out at mma.tv, where Matt also answers questions on the JKD forum. Every once in awhile, someone would make a remark about what was going on at Mousel's. Don't know why I never went back.

[ufsofpa]

Alright lets get honest. First of all, Guru Dan is the one who contributed the most to JKD. Larry Hartsell, yes he did somewhat, but lets remember, Guru Dan introduced him to Bruce. So if it was not for Guru, Larry would not know as much as he does now. After Bruce passed on, Dan decided to continue the growth of JKD. He went and trained with damn near every Filipino master there is, Silat guys, Hell, hes the one who helped revolutionize Muay Thai by training with Master Chai.Larry brougt in wrestling into JKD, but lets not forget, Bruce trained with Judo Gene Lebell. Guru Dan sought out the Machados, Paulson, and other grappling instructers. Yes others today have helped with the growth of JKD. But we all owe it to Guru Dan, if not for him, we would not know as much about JKD as we do now.