Would you?

[Xue Sheng]

I have a question loosely based on something I ran into a few years back (very loosely based)

If a martial arts teacher that was VERY good at their style, was a good fighter, as well as a very good teacher that had a great lineage and they offered to train you for next to nothing would you train with them?

But wait, don’t answer yet

First you would need to stop training all other styles for 1 to 2 years to get the basics down but after that it would not really matter what else you wanted to train but even with that 1 to 2 years you would still have a lot to learn.

And, here is the kicker; you really don’t much like the style. It is effective, it has has a long (and pretty cool) history, it is a great style in and of itself but it is simply not your style.

Would you train with this teacher?

[dbell]

At my current state in MA yes, I probably would. A few years ago (say 15 or so) no, I probably would not have.

This sounds very intriguing actually.. What system was it?

[Daniel Sullivan]

Before answering, I would need to have an extremely good reason as to justify cessation of training in all other styles for two years. No, to get the basics down is not an extremely good reason for me at this point in my life, as I have teaching duties in two other styles.

Saying that I would be moving to his/her studio located in a remote region of Japan to live and train would be an extremely good reason, though I would have to put a great deal of consideration into whether or not such a move would be feasible. If that were the case, and I could work out the details, I would consider that a good reason and may decide that the opportunity to live abroad and train in this art that isn't "my art" would be worth it for that reason.

Daniel

[Omar B]

There are schools that bar you from training in other styles (Hwa Rang Do if I remember correctly is one). Personally, my answer would be a no. From your clause "it being a style you don't much like" what came into my head is CMA which for whatever reason just never appealed to me. The thought of giving up JMA for 2 years just because of an effective teacher is a bit of a stretch since there are many effective teachers of whatever style you may like. You just have to look.

[Steve]

Not me. My goals in MA aren't to be the best, most effective or most knowledgeable martial artist around. Far from it. I am in this strictly because I enjoy the hell out of it. This isn't about edification for me. I'm in it to have fun.

So, it could be the best, most effective martial art ever, I won't train in it if I don't enjoy it.

[shesulsa]

No. I shouldn't require to stop training in my current style to embark on the basics of another, especially if I don't like it. Though I'm curious why one wouldn't like something effective, but then that's just me.

Further, I'd think the whole idea that I MUST give up training anything else but that for a minimum of two years is a crock and I'd question the teacher's ability and/or ego.

I think timing in opportunity probably matters a bit, but weighing pros and cons, I have to say generally 'no.'

[Xue Sheng]

At my current state in MA yes, I probably would. A few years ago (say 15 or so) no, I probably would not have.

This sounds very intriguing actually.. What system was it?

Like I said it was loosely based and this is purely hypothetical. I just had this thought while walking into work this morning form my parking lot.

It was Bagua, and I like Bagua, so it was not so much that I did not like the style as it was I just did not want to have to go through learning and remembering more forms. At that time I was doing Yang and Chen Taijiquan, working on Xingyiquan and thinking about a return to Wing Chun. So I did not do it. But there are styles I am not all to fond of and I have meant teachers over the years that are very good at that style that I do not think I would go train with if they made me this offer.


Before answering, I would need to have an extremely good reason as to justify cessation of training in all other styles for two years. No, to get the basics down is not an extremely good reason for me at this point in my life, as I have teaching duties in two other styles.

Saying that I would be moving to his/her studio located in a remote region of Japan to live and train would be an extremely good reason, though I would have to put a great deal of consideration into whether or not such a move would be feasible. If that were the case, and I could work out the details, I would consider that a good reason and may decide that the opportunity to live abroad and train in this art that isn't "my art" would be worth it for that reason.

Daniel

No travel to foriegn lands is involved and it sounds as if you like Japanese styles so this may not apply at all.

As to the basics bit, HEY!!! I come from ICMA :D

Actually that part would not apply to all styles and generally it would not be applied to a style you have been training for many years already. But I can tell you from experience that I did not start understanding Taiji and how it is suppose to work until I stopped thinking about it form my TKD and Jujitsu background and then later stopped Wing Chun.

And now due to my Taiji and now Xingyi background I can no longer do Wing Chun apps, (I tried not to long ago), they all come out Taiji or Xingyi. If I wanted to go back to Wing Chun I would have to stop Taiji and Xingyi IMO.


There are schools that bar you from training in other styles (Hwa Rang Do if I remember correctly is one). Personally, my answer would be a no. From your clause "it being a style you don't much like" what came into my head is CMA which for whatever reason just never appealed to me.

but…but…CMA always spoke very highly of you :D



The thought of giving up JMA for 2 years just because of an effective teacher is a bit of a stretch since there are many effective teachers of whatever style you may like. You just have to look.

That would depend on where you were, if it is NYC you are right. If it is in the wilds of upstate NY (real upstate, Adirondack upstate – not Westchester county :D) then that is generally not the case.

[Xue Sheng]

Not me. My goals in MA aren't to be the best, most effective or most knowledgeable martial artist around. Far from it. I am in this strictly because I enjoy the hell out of it. This isn't about edification for me. I'm in it to have fun.

So, it could be the best, most effective martial art ever, I won't train in it if I don't enjoy it.

Thanks I agree

But a bit of a redirection here... I did not say it was the best just that he/she was very good at it and it was effective


No. I shouldn't require to stop training in my current style to embark on the basics of another, especially if I don't like it. Though I'm curious why one wouldn't like something effective, but then that's just me.

Further, I'd think the whole idea that I MUST give up training anything else but that for a minimum of two years is a crock and I'd question the teacher's ability and/or ego.

I think timing in opportunity probably matters a bit, but weighing pros and cons, I have to say generally 'no.'

Thanks

There seems to be an issue with the stopping what you are doing here, not just from Shesulsa. Forgive me, I come from mostly Internal Chinese Martial Arts with some External CMA and it is not all that uncommon a request and it is not ego it is practicality. My Taiji sifu asked me to stop training everthing else for a bit (and when I did I discovered things made more sense) and it was not ego and even my Sanda sifu asked me to make a choice between Xingyiquan and Sanda since he did not understand how anyone could be new at 2 styles and do either one justice when it comes to learning.

So lets me remove that bit completely so we can get by that

Sorry but I think we need a CHANGE IN PLAN

Now it is

If a martial arts teacher that was VERY good at their style, was a good fighter, as well as a very good teacher that had a great lineage and they offered to train you for next to nothing would you train with them?

But wait, don’t answer yet

And, here is the kicker; you really don’t much like the style. It is effective, it has has a long (and pretty cool) history, it is a great style in and of itself but it is simply not your style.

Would you train with this teacher?

[shesulsa]

If a martial arts teacher that was VERY good at their style, was a good fighter, as well as a very good teacher that had a great lineage and they offered to train you for next to nothing would you train with them?

But wait, don’t answer yet

And, here is the kicker; you really don’t much like the style. It is effective, it has has a long (and pretty cool) history, it is a great style in and of itself but it is simply not your style.

Would you train with this teacher?

Sure. :) Why not?

[Daniel Sullivan]

Thanks I agree

But a bit of a redirection here... I did not say it was the best just that he/she was very good at it and it was effective



Thanks

There seems to be an issue with the stopping what you are doing here, not just from Shesulsa. Forgive me, I come from mostly Internal Chinese Martial Arts with some External CMA and it is not all that uncommon a request and it is not ego it is practicality. My Taiji sifu asked me to stop training everthing else for a bit (and when I did I discovered things made more sense) and it was not ego and even my Sanda sifu asked me to make a choice between Xingyiquan and Sanda since he did not understand how anyone could be new at 2 styles and do either one justice when it comes to learning.
Now, I would consider that a good reason.

I stated whether or not I would personally, however, based on the fact that I have teaching obligations in two other styles, thus such a request would be impossible for me.

Were I relatively new to training in two separate arts, focusing on one and putting the other aside until later is perfectly reasonable.


So lets me remove that bit completely so we can get by that

Sorry but I think we need a CHANGE IN PLAN

Now it is

If a martial arts teacher that was VERY good at their style, was a good fighter, as well as a very good teacher that had a great lineage and they offered to train you for next to nothing would you train with them?

But wait, don’t answer yet

And, here is the kicker; you really don’t much like the style. It is effective, it has has a long (and pretty cool) history, it is a great style in and of itself but it is simply not your style.

Would you train with this teacher?
Hmmm. I was really hoping for that move to a remote region of Japan (or China or Korea) and live with the master, but I guess that was not part of the equation. Bummer.

Due to time constraints in my present life, probably. I simply do not have the time another commitment of that nature.

If I had the time? Absolutely.

Daniel

[Rich Parsons]

I have a question loosely based on something I ran into a few years back (very loosely based)

If a martial arts teacher that was VERY good at their style, was a good fighter, as well as a very good teacher that had a great lineage and they offered to train you for next to nothing would you train with them?

But wait, don’t answer yet

First you would need to stop training all other styles for 1 to 2 years to get the basics down but after that it would not really matter what else you wanted to train but even with that 1 to 2 years you would still have a lot to learn.

And, here is the kicker; you really don’t much like the style. It is effective, it has has a long (and pretty cool) history, it is a great style in and of itself but it is simply not your style.

Would you train with this teacher?

If it is an issue of not being my style I might consider it.

If it is an issue I do like nor enjoy the style then I would not. End of story. If I do not like it I would not do another system or style.

Now if it was an issue of just being different and the teacher was really nice person and I could learn from them and I had the time and money, I would train.


The Stop training in another system or style is a problem though. If I was total beginner, I can see this comment. But at this point in my training I think I can still approach it open minded and do it their way to learn. So if I had to stop all other training, I would most likely not do it.

[Flying Crane]

Hi Xue,

I guest first of all, I'd need to examine how happy I was with the training I was already getting. If I'm happy with it and I have confidence in my teachers and I'm getting high quality instruction, there's little reason to go elsewhere even if the other teacher is tops.

Also, given that it's a system that doesn't appeal to me, I'd probably say No anyway. I'm personally not interested in Brazilian Jujistu for example. If Royce Gracie moved in next door to me and set up a training hall and offered to let me train for free, I still wouldn't go train with him.

[Drac]

Prolly not...

[Phoenix44]

you really don’t much like the style


That's all I need to know.

No. Life is too short.

[harlan]

Style doesn't matter as much as teacher.

Bad teacher + bad style = waste of time.
Bad teacher + good style = look elsewhere.
Good teacher + bad style = has potential.
Good teacher + good style = ideal.

Good teacher makes the difference.

Answer: yes.

[ap Oweyn]

No.

For various reasons. But they're all pretty academic given that last one. I don't particularly like the style.

The End.

[ralphmcpherson]

No , I wouldnt. If my current instructor was losing passion for what he does or if I was feeling apathetic about my current art I would probably look into it, but if it was an art I did not like I would probably not bother anyway. I love my current school and my instructor is the best Ive ever had so in my current situation there is no reason for me to really look at training elsewhere.

[Big Don]

And, here is the kicker; you really don’t much like the style.
Life is too short to do things you don't like.

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks all

I have no idea why this question popped into my demented little noggin yesterday but it did.

My answer would also like be I would not train it... but then I am not 100% sure about that. It could be that I simply do not understand the style and that training it I may fall in love with it. Or it could be that I discover why I disliked it in the first place.

I have often wondered what would have happened if I took the guys offer to teach me Bagua, but then I like Bagua so it is not the same thing. I just had no desire to learn anymore forms. But there is always the possibility that I could contact him again later, I know where he is and where he teaches and I have since found out his Sifu is out of Beijing and REALLY into the fighting applications of Bagua.,, and my yearly trips to Beijing will be starting wihtin the next couple of years :EG: but if I trained Bagua I would most definitely have to give something up... there is just not enough time in a day to do it all... But that would be stuff of another post.

Again thanks
Xue


.

[geezer]

Life is too short to do things you don't like.

Ditto.

There, you see! ... I knew that if I kept reading Big Don's posts, eventually I'd find one that I totally agreed with... and Hell hasn't even frozen over yet!

But seriously, Xue... if the style doesn't suit your abilities and temperment, it's not worth it. It's one thing to investigate a system that doesn't particularly appeal to you. But I can't see dropping everything else to study it in depth.

[Xue Sheng]

Ditto.

But seriously, Xue... if the style doesn't suit your abilities and temperment, it's not worth it. It's one thing to investigate a system that doesn't particularly appeal to you. But I can't see dropping everything else to study it in depth.

I'm not dropping anything the scenario presented was hypothetical. It was just something my demented little brain came up with yesterday morning while walking into work form my car. And it was loosely based on the Bagua thing I previously encountered, which I did not do due to the fact I simply did not want to learn more forms

[jks9199]

No.

For various reasons. But they're all pretty academic given that last one. I don't particularly like the style.

The End.
That's where I'd be, too...

Why waste the time on something I don't like?

[harlan]

Sorry, but I find it amusing that 'liking' something should ever be considered criteria for studying a martial art?

'Sorry sensei...but I don't like kumite.' Better yet, 'I hate kata...do I have to learn it?'

Personally, I don't want to do kung li exercises, and have no interest in ancillary studies such as Feeding Crane (Kung Fu), and Bagua seems so boring, and the various sword arts leave me cold.

HOWEVER...that doesn't mean I don't see the value in learning them - to bring back to my core study.

[shesulsa]

Sorry, but I find it amusing that 'liking' something should ever be considered criteria for studying a martial art?

'Sorry sensei...but I don't like kumite.' Better yet, 'I hate kata...do I have to learn it?'

Personally, I don't want to do kung li exercises, and have no interest in ancillary studies such as Feeding Crane (Kung Fu), and Bagua seems so boring, and the various sword arts leave me cold.

HOWEVER...that doesn't mean I don't see the value in learning them - to bring back to my core study.

This is along my lines of thinking, personally, and most especially because it was stated the art has an interesting history and is *quite effective.* I'd at least give it a shot. Who knows? Perhaps my perception could change.

[geezer]

I'm not dropping anything the scenario presented was hypothetical... it was loosely based on the Bagua thing I previously encountered, which I did not do due to the fact I simply did not want to learn more forms.

I still wouldn't do it. Regarding forms: Some people have a great ability to quickly learn and remember sequences of movement. Professional dancers for example. People in the martial arts with such an ability often love to learn as many forms as they can. I do not have that ability. I once trained in a system with many complex forms, and I found that not only was I ill suited to learning such a large number of sets, but that the excessive emphasis on forms wasn't very helpful to me in terms of learning an effective art. Later I took up Wing Tsun and felt that it suited me far better. Different people learn differently. But knowing how I learn, I would never devote myself to a training system with many forms... regardless of the skill of the instructor.

[Xue Sheng]

I still wouldn't do it. Regarding forms: Some people have a great ability to quickly learn and remember sequences of movement. Professional dancers for example. People in the martial arts with such an ability often love to learn as many forms as they can. I do not have that ability. I once trained in a system with many complex forms, and I found that not only was I ill suited to learning such a large number of sets, but that the excessive emphasis on forms wasn't very helpful to me in terms of learning an effective art. Later I took up Wing Tsun and felt that it suited me far better. Different people learn differently. But knowing how I learn, I would never devote myself to a training system with many forms... regardless of the skill of the instructor.

I have known a few forms collectors a most (not all) are just that forms collectors but beyond that most (not all) know not much else.

Although I like taiji there are IMO to many forms in my flavor of Yang style (8) and although I do feel they are all important and they do have similarities, it is too many.

That is one of the reasons why I liked Xingyiquan.... there is generally not that many. 2 main forms and then depending on style various weapons forms. Although those 2 main forms can be broken up into 17 forms it is still not as complicated as the 8 I know in Yang style

[chaos1551]

I would. It wouldn't be a hard decision to make, but only because of where I live--there just aren't many choices.

If I had more choices, I likely still would. A good fighter and a good teacher is something I would find great value in. Even if I didn't like the style and I didn't like the instructor personally, I would probably take it as a challenge to learn to see past those things and find value.

Sometimes it's the things you don't like or don't understand that you have to gravitate towards, because they will stretch you into learning something you never would have if you'd stayed in your comfort zone. Just mind the cold prickly/warm fuzzy rule so you don't get yourself into trouble.

[CoryKS]

And, here is the kicker; you really don’t much like the style. It is effective, it has has a long (and pretty cool) history, it is a great style in and of itself but it is simply not your style.

This is a deal-killer. I tend not to learn very well if I don't enjoy the material.

[repz]

When you said, "and you dont like the style", thats automatically a no-no.

It has to be fun for me, otherwise i wouldnt muster the energy to train.

[Rich Parsons]

Sorry, but I find it amusing that 'liking' something should ever be considered criteria for studying a martial art?

'Sorry sensei...but I don't like kumite.' Better yet, 'I hate kata...do I have to learn it?'

Personally, I don't want to do kung li exercises, and have no interest in ancillary studies such as Feeding Crane (Kung Fu), and Bagua seems so boring, and the various sword arts leave me cold.

HOWEVER...that doesn't mean I don't see the value in learning them - to bring back to my core study.

Harlan,

I like what I do. That is why I started with FMA and staid with FMA. I do not like forms, but I study them and teach them. I do not like very high kicks to the head, but I respect them, and also train for myself to kick as high as reasonable which is my chest level or head/chin level on most people.

I do not like the teaching style of TKD. I do not study TKD. I have lots of friends who have studied and still teach TKD. Nothing wrong with the system if it fits your needs and likes.

The slippery slope your arguement leads to is that if people do not study an art for killing, as that is the ultimate in defense, which leads to weapons (* which a lot of systems do not cover *) which leads using ranged weapons and firearms which is a different approach. Which should lead to using weapons of mass destruction preemptively against people as I do not like it but it is the best defense in the end.

But, in the end if you like the teacher and like the system it would go along way to studying and paying for the lessons. If I do not like to do it, and it is not fun at some level then I know I will not continue it. I know most people do not have the commitment I have so if the average person is in it for fitness or basic selfdefense or keeping oneself moving they will move along to something else if they enjoy that more. It is human nature.

Making sacrafice is good and required, but the if there is choice between one that requires more than you are willing to give and another that fits which one do you think the average person is going to choose?

[Bruno@MT]

Not liking the art would be the kicker for me.
If I had the chance to get personal training from one of the Genbukan shihan I would take it immediately. Otoh, if the art itself would be something I don't like, and I have to drop the arts that I do like... what would be the point?


Sorry, but I find it amusing that 'liking' something should ever be considered criteria for studying a martial art?

'Sorry sensei...but I don't like kumite.' Better yet, 'I hate kata...do I have to learn it?'

Liking an art has everything to do with it.
I like my art, and the things INSIDE that art which I may not always like are part of the package.

This discussion is about disliking an entire art. Why in the name of all that is good and holy would I want to practise an art that I don't like at any level?

Take boxing for example, or TKD. Both are fine arts in their own right, but I wouldn't want to actually practise them, even if I got trained by someone who is very good.

[Blade96]

I have a question loosely based on something I ran into a few years back (very loosely based)

If a martial arts teacher that was VERY good at their style, was a good fighter, as well as a very good teacher that had a great lineage and they offered to train you for next to nothing would you train with them?

But wait, don’t answer yet

First you would need to stop training all other styles for 1 to 2 years to get the basics down but after that it would not really matter what else you wanted to train but even with that 1 to 2 years you would still have a lot to learn.

And, here is the kicker; you really don’t much like the style. It is effective, it has has a long (and pretty cool) history, it is a great style in and of itself but it is simply not your style.

Would you train with this teacher?


Not me. My goals in MA aren't to be the best, most effective or most knowledgeable martial artist around. Far from it. I am in this strictly because I enjoy the hell out of it. This isn't about edification for me. I'm in it to have fun.

So, it could be the best, most effective martial art ever, I won't train in it if I don't enjoy it.

This would pretty much be my answer too.


I still wouldn't do it. Regarding forms: Some people have a great ability to quickly learn and remember sequences of movement. Professional dancers for example. People in the martial arts with such an ability often love to learn as many forms as they can

Like me. I do have this ability. actually when i first started out in MA for the very first time (in the kenpo school) and we were doing kata. being new to ma, i didnt even know anything about kata. what it was, what it was for. The BB teaching me said after that 'most people can remember only about 2 or 3 movements in sequence, you got 6 or 7. thats great!' I long remembered that. Even now, doing my yellow belt kata, heian nidan (i'm almost yellow waiting now for my test) I know the kata already. While the other white belts dont. Not being cocky, just honest! :( It doesnt take me long to learn sequences of movement. and to long remember them. My sensei had to literally tell me to stop when i jumped ahead in my training and learned heian nidan. he said 'you cant chase 2 rabbits' He's right, but thats just me. I love kata! and want to learn them all! I cant wait!