Questions about sikaran.net

[RyuShiKan]

After looking at your website I have a few questions.

First:
Since you claim to be doing a Phillipino Art what’s up with the JKA (Japan Karate Assoc.) stances like this guy is doing?
Is that the way you tell your students they will be attacked?

[RyuShiKan]

and this one too.........what I am wondering is why the guy in blue doesn't bust you right in the ribs with that hand that's pulled back...............seems like the technique your trying is a bit too open.

[RyuShiKan]

this is textbook JKA.........:rofl:
I see so many street fights like this:rolleyes:

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
The Sikaran Institute of Karate is pleased to be hosting the 2003 New England Martial Arts Festival on July 19, 2003.

Again………I don’t get it. Sikaran Institute of Karate?:confused:
Are you doing an art from the Philippines or a Japanese/Okinawan art?



Originally posted by tshadowchaser
This is an opportunity for the entire Martial Arts community to come together in friendship to share knowledge with fellow students of the Martial Arts and participate in demonstrations and classes with students and instructors from various systems.

I am wondering why people would get together to share knowledge with people they don't know?

I think I'll go loan my Glock to the first person I see walking down the street.........:rolleyes:



Originally posted by tshadowchaser
This is also an excellent opportunity for instructors to introduce their systems to the general public and do a bit of promotional work for themselves.



Sounds more like a “networking” convention.

[RyuShiKan]

Matrix Reloaded?

[RyuShiKan]

A very Aikido style technique which is nicknamed the goose neck.
and again with the JKA "attack mode" stance by the guy in blue.
Found here: http://sikaran.net/photos/content/2003-05-20/sikaran%20105.jpg

[RyuShiKan]

I think I saw this a one "those" bars in Bangcock once;) ..........
http://sikaran.net/photos/content/2003-05-20/sikaran%20117.jpg

[RyuShiKan]

You honestly don't tell your students people fight like the guy in blue do you?

http://sikaran.net/photos/content/2003-05-20/sikaran%20012.jpg

[RyuShiKan]

Talk about well trained........this dude in blue still has his left arm pulled back to his side even when he is about to be dumped on his butt..........http://sikaran.net/photos/content/2003-05-20/sikaran%20120.jpg

[Rich Parsons]

RSK,

I only know tshadowchaser from this board, so there is no friendship nor bond of training. I only know you from this board so the same go for you also.


Some people have studied more than one art and have students that only train in one of those arts themselves. Maybe, the guy in Blue was a Traditional JKA student, so what? Is he still training to learn? Are you trying to say that all Japanese methods of training have no value? I do not get your out attacks here?

Do you have a web site full of demo pictures I can go look at ? Or do you just sit back pump steroids as you ICON suggests. Yes this comment could be interpreted to be insult, yet I think it just as justified as yours.

BTW nice Quote for
" "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."
John Wayne"

Maybe is you actually did not go out and insult people, maybe you might not get it in return. Where is Yiliquin1 now to talk about the hypocrisy?


As to the FMA and JKA being mixed in a name, some would say that Sikiran would be more Indonesian and Filipino, yet that is another discussion, but it would be nice if the people who are out there making sure everyone looks exactly like them would get all the data down. Maybe? And as to his name, it is his choice of a name, If I would to have a school called, All arts but anything trained by RyuShiKan, I could have the school, yet it might upset you or others, and many would not understand the meaning, yet it is just a name.

Speaking of names what is your real name?, are you respected? Oh yeah BTW why did your parents name you that? was it for family tradition of where they came from or because they taught the name sounded nice? or what? Just curious? What is the name of your school?


As to getting together and seeing others and trading ideas, some people like this others don't. If you do not then fine. I just do not understand the Glock comment. Did you not just walk into a club one day and then started learning?? Who took the risk on you? If it was family, then are you saying that you can only learn from a family member to make sure the art does not leave the family and keep it hidden and secret and there by more powerful?



Now, so you know a little bit more about me.

My Name is Rich Parsons, oh wait that is my ID here, Guess I am not afraid of people knowing who I am. I have trained officially in a FMA (Modern Arnis ) club since 1985 and before I was just trained on the streets and by some friends who had trained elsewhere. I did pick up another FMA in 1998 and that was to train with Manong (GM) Ted Buot weekly in Balintawak. NO, I do not have a webpage, and when I do get one, I will send the link to you for a review, ok? Do I care what you think about me? Nope? Do I care what tshadowchaser thinks about me? I do care about the general populace of the MA community and those that are GUESTs here at Martial Talk. If people can go about and just blindly insult, then it will be rec.martialarts . Just my opinion.

So, I wait, your answers. You insisted on other threads that people answer you and your questions, well I am waiting for you to answer mine?

Now back to the regularly schedule Thread Talk


:asian:

[Bob Hubbard]

Robert,
TS can answer better than me. However:

Are you familiar with his system, or the FMA? The word "Karate" is rather generic, like klenex and xerox.

My system (Modern Arnis) also uses some karate stances and forms. There is a Japanese influence in some of the FMA. Does it matter?

Again, photos posed for instruction, often differ from those 'in-action' shots.

The idea for this convention is an honorable one. What is wrong with sharing and networking? I've seen tech companies do it all the time.

A little less sarcasm maybe, and a more open mind. We got 1 mouth and 2 hands, but 2 eyes and 2 ears. That makes for an interesting ration of output to input don't you think?

:asian:

[chufeng]

Where is Yiliquin1 now to talk about the hypocrisy?

RP,

Are you trying to bait him into an argument?

If you had been paying attention, you would know that he is taking a break from this website (and others) because he grows tired of the sokedokes getting to say pretty much whatever they want and the people who call them out getting spanked...

...and if you DO know that he's taking a break, then poking him in the ribs when he's not here SCREAMS volumes of what kind of guy you are...

I don't want to argue with you...I don't even want to discuss this further, but, I won't sit here and watch you hit someone who's not present on the boards.

:asian:
chufeng

[DAC..florida]

:asian:

WOW!

You could cut the tention in here with a knife!

:asian:

[tshadowchaser]

You who know nothing abouty my art ,

Picture number one and your question:
Do you know the background of the student I am working out with?
Have you ever paid any attention to the post I have made in various threads stating that I have a Korean, Oakinawan,Chinese background with rank in more than one system. (I studied more than one at a time , my mind is able to assimilate) Plus I told him to do the tech. that way. Your not having been present at the time of the photo may explain why you are unable to figure out that we where doing a specific defense against a specific attack .Unfortunately most people don¡¦t study my art and attack me in ways that do not have stances that YOU might approve of.
Photo 2
Had he done as you suggested at that moment he would have gone to the hospital. Im not that slow and he¡¦s not that dumb. From your remark I take it you either never did demo¡¦s with your instructor .
Photo 3
YEP you bet your +++
Question 4
If you had taken the time to read the whole thing you would have seen where I said it was for the public. To educate as well as do some self promotion. I am not afraid of being beside other instructors and showing my art. Or discussing it in friendly ways.
This area has seen TKD for thirty years and many potential students don¡¦t even know anything exists or they base all arts on what they have seen before. I am trying to help educate the general public. If you can not conceive of this or do not understand the concept Sorry
#5 Matrix
No a moment in one of the two man forms we do . Actually I thought it was pretty good considering the one on the left is a paraplegic. Again your ignorance of anything I do is showing And I really don¡¦t care what bright comment you make about it.
#6
SO. Can you see all of nmy body. All of my hand . In fact do you know what I am doing or are you making and presumption on your little knowledge of what I do and comparing it to what you do.
#7
I don¡¦t doubt you visit gay bars what so ever
#8
nope but it¡¦s a good pic
#9
fast wasn¡¦t I ƒº

Ok not that I have been polite and tried to answer in a refined way may I ask are you just trying to star a flame war.
You seem to be very good at that sort of thing. Always claiming you are debunking someone or something but never having the courage to explain your techniques or show pics of them.
I really don¡¦t care if you like what you saw or not . I think you like to hide behind your 6000 miles form everyone distance and snipe at anyone you please. Why don¡¦t you contribute something that is friendly and not be so negative all the time.
My background is wide in the arts I still study with a few high ranking people. My personal instructor in Sikaran Had a multi system background before studying Sikaran . My stances are my stances if you don¡¦t study my system and if you have not studied it longer and have higher rank in it than I do Stuff it.
You have tried to start arguments with me before I choose not to reply Guess what this will be my last reply to you on this thread any other reply or short I will consider to be that of an aggressive attack ment to provoke an argument and start a war.

Master Sheldon L Bedell of Sikaran

Aka tshadowchaser

[grimfang]

I will not comment on certain aspects of the initial post here. I am only going to comment on the logistical & technical issues that arise when dealing with live photography and internet content.

The Sikaran Institute of Karate does not use "staged" photos for demonstration purposes. All photos are taken "live." We do not use a professional photographer. We have one student who is generous enough to take 5 minutes of his own time to take the photos for the site. He is not using a high quality camera. It is not capable of taken lots of photos in rapid succession. I suppose the photographer could take more time away from his own studies in order to take better pictures. I suppose we could also spend an entire day each week creating "staged" photos, or adjust the lesson plan for the day in order to accommodate promotional goals. That would not be an appropriate use of anyone's time.

The actual photo selection is chosen by the webmaster. The school trusts the webmaster to use good judgment in photo selection. Because the school has chosen to update the content regularly, it is not always practical or possible for the material to be reviewed prior to uploading. People have other things to worry about, and the website is not the #1 priority for every person at every moment. As a result, some of the photos may not necessarily show all of the details relevant to a full understanding of a technique… in many photos, you are unable to see what the other hand is doing. Also, you can not always see what occurs before or after the action in the picture. We also need to keep in mind that when looking at a photo, you CAN NOT HEAR WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED WITH THE CLASS. The photos only give a small portion of the story, not the whole story. It’s a matter of CONTEXT.

Then, there is the issue of storing the photos. The webmaster does not have a large number of photos to choose from (because, as stated earlier, the photos are taken by a student in class during a 5 minute period.) The webmaster selects photos, uploads what he feels is appropriate, and deletes the rest. If the content were to be removed, then there would be nothing to replace it. The webmaster is under contract to update content on a weekly basis, unless specified in writing. Sorry, that’s the way this internet thing works.

So, what you are seeing is only seeing a small group of photos taken during a live class, without details of what is being said at the moment, taken by an amateur photographer and posted by a webmaster with contractual obligations.
If you have ANY questions, concerns, complaints, comments, or suggestions, please feel free to send them to the webmaster or amateur photographer. He can be reached at grimfang2@yahoo.com

I hope this clarifies some of the issues for everyone. I realize that the issues involved with webdesign & maintenance are not fully understood by those who have not made a career of it.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by chufeng
RP,

Are you trying to bait him into an argument?

If you had been paying attention, you would know that he is taking a break from this website (and others) because he grows tired of the sokedokes getting to say pretty much whatever they want and the people who call them out getting spanked...

...and if you DO know that he's taking a break, then poking him in the ribs when he's not here SCREAMS volumes of what kind of guy you are...

I don't want to argue with you...I don't even want to discuss this further, but, I won't sit here and watch you hit someone who's not present on the boards.

:asian:
chufeng

C,

It was not a Poke at Yiliquin1 at all. He argues quite well, and from what I have seen does not pull punches, no matter what the case maybe. And even if RSK and Mr. Stone have agreed in the past, it was my comment that RSK was provoking and being the hypocrite.

If I ever have a problem with someone, I ask them a question. I try to keep it as polite as possible. Yet, as before when dealing with certain individuals on this site and has happened to me personally before, when one seems to get some heat, others jump in and redirect the issue. Does this seem to scream about your values and ethics?? I wonder sometimes, yet I try to gove the benefit of the doubt.

As it seems to me, you still have not answered a queston I posed to you earlier. And yet that could be seen to scream volumes about you also sir. You were the one that directly told me I could not have a personal opinion here on this board because of my Moderator position, hence my Personal Opinion Follows on almost all of my posts since. It seems to me that it is ok for certain people to throw jabs and stones (* Not a pun against Mr. Stome *), and yet not be held responsisble for their own actions, nor do they answer my questions when they are quite easy to answer, even if they are just an opinion. Yet, I seem to be lacking in some quality that you and others seem to think I should have, and yet, when I ask the tough questions like your friends, then I catch the heat. Well, If you do not like what I have to say then make it a point to tell me. Do, not just infer or make sly comments. You yourself promised me that all four involved in a nice little debate had dropped the subject, yet it continued(s), does this also speak volumes about you sir??? Personally, I assumed you were left out in the cold on that one, and did not hold you responsibile even though you seem to have a postion of authority with some of the players involved.

So, I am still waiting for RSK's replies. If has and I have not read it yet, then ok, if not Still Waiting . . .

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

Picture number one and your question:
Do you know the background of the student I am working out with?
Have you ever paid any attention to the post I have made in various threads stating that I have a Korean, Oakinawan,Chinese background with rank in more than one system. (I studied more than one at a time , my mind is able to assimilate)[u] Plus I told him to do the tech. that way.[u]


Why on earth would you suggest your student to stand that way?
Do you tell them people attack like that?



Originally posted by tshadowchaser
Your not having been present at the time of the photo may explain why you are unable to figure out that we where doing a specific defense against a specific attack .

Like I sad……. Do you tell them people attack like that?
If you do then why would you?




Originally posted by tshadowchaser
#6
SO. Can you see all of nmy body. All of my hand . In fact do you know what I am doing or are you making and presumption on your little knowledge of what I do and comparing it to what you do.

Actually if you reread my comments you will see I make no comments (other than a joke or two about certain photos) about the way you defended but on the way “blue boy” was attacking……….my comments were based on seeing those exact same ridiculous styles of attack that are done by the JKA folks here in Japan.



Originally posted by tshadowchaser
#7
I don¡¦t doubt you visit gay bars what so ever

Who said anything about gay bars?



As for not knowing anything about your style……….I actually met someone here in Japan that claimed to teach Sikaran. I met them 2 or 3 times because the class they taught was either before or after the one I was teaching…..I can’t recall their name but they seemed nice. We talked about technique and they showed me what they were teaching.

[chufeng]

RP,


you still have not answered a queston I posed to you earlier

Which question might that be?
Please ask again because I'm not digging through a bunch of threads to find it...

In fact, I thought the RSK/DAC/ARK issue was over...
You might notice my absence from any of those follow-on arguments.

Hold weight with whom?
The only one I hold any weight on is YiLiQuan1...I am his senior...but, I do not censor his comments, nor do I advise him on how to post...

My earlier comment to you seems to have set under you like a burr, sorry...let me remove it.

As a moderator, when jumping in with an opinion, people will still see it as a moderator's comment...plain and simple...quite frankly, I don't care how you post, but given the way things have gone recently, it seems the people who make completely outrageous claims have a better foot-hold than those who actually have something solid to contribute. I do my best to stay within the rules that YOU and your cohorts come up with...but I am growing weary of the bull-scat here as well...the only reason I stick around is because some of the members here may actually teach me something...and I may have something worthwhile to contribute.

As I said earlier...if you didn't know yiliquan1 was on sabattical, then my post was to inform you of same...I hold no grudge against you...but if you did know, then that small fragment of your post was out of line.

...again, please repost your question...I'll be happy to respond.

:asian:
chufeng

[paihequan]

I'm going to regret chiming in here but I think you'll find that a great many styles use a similar attacking method to that illustrated in the photo's in question as means of simply demonstrating a given technique response on a basic level.

http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken/heartpalm.jpg

I can certainly see both points of views and RyuShiKan is correct in his views of the practicality of utilising this tyrp of attack within a street-orientated situation. As one who has worked in the Security Industry for over 10 years, this type of attack and response would not be advised.

Of course it would not be advisable for one to attack in that manner within the street (long, low Karate-like stance & Chamber) but for the purpose of basic training within a particular style, school or breakdown of a form then I guess it is a matter of stylistic preference.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by paihequan
I'm going to regret chiming in here but I think you'll find that a great many styles use a similar attacking method to that illustrated in the photo's in question as means of simply demonstrating a given technique response on a basic level.


This is true many folks do use this sort of attack to practice but the question I am asking is "WHY?"

It's not a normal method of attack..........

[Bob Hubbard]

I was going to check Roberts website, but I noticed its not where I looked. http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Palace/2264/

Robert where'd ya go?

[tshadowchaser]

RSK,
I'm pretty sure if you met someone in Japan he was most likely from the Geronimo Family of sikaran . That is a different system than I am in with different cultural back ground and martial arts training (he was Issinryu I belive and TKD befor sikaran) where involved in his style. . To the best of my knowledge we have not had an instructor from our system in Japan until very recently and he is back in the states already haveing comleted his assignment for the comany he works for.


I simply told him to attack in a stance he choose the one he did. It was a photo shoot

yes people do attack like that in tournaments sometimes

perhaps I was jokeing when I made the gay bar reffrence because you said you had seen the technique ( a hammer fist to the groin) in a bar. Most admit it slows a person down alot. they usualy dont get up if hit with it

and yes he may have some JAK background I am not his first instructor Hell I may have had some mixed in by some instructor somewhere along the line.

would you have rather seen him in street clothing standing upright like a street thug attacking like he had no idea what he was doing? The photos worked for the what I needed them to the time.

[RyuShiKan]

Now to answer Rich Parson’s questions.

I joined MT when “real names” weren’t required…..in fact I was probably one of the first to suggest real names be used in the profile…….ask Bob Hubbard, he might recall.


How long have I trained?

For almost 30 years.

Which arts have I trained in?

Judo
Karate
Sumo
Naginata
Kendo/kenjutsu

Who have I trained with?

Judo:
Katsuhiko Kashiwazaki
1981 World Judo Champion
5 time winner of All-Japan Champion (Weight Division)

Tadanori Koshino
1989 2nd place World Championships
1991 1st place World Championships
1992 Barcelona Olympics 3rd place


Karate
Oyata Seiyu-student of Nakamura Shigeru of Okinawa Kenpo-who was a student of Itosu Anko etc, etc,
1968 Bogu (full contact fighting) Champion
1968 Kobudo Fightintg Champion



Katori Shinto Ryu (briefly)
Sugino Sensei
Mr. Sugino was a direct student and I believe 8th dan of Ueshiba’s as well.

I have not listed several people for various reasons.

I was a “Golden Member” (no joke that’s what they called it) of the JKF- Japan Karate Do Federation for more than 10 years.


I know it’s not that impressive compared to some of the Grand Master Blaster Sokes that are on this board.......

[paihequan]

RyuShiKan,

I also agree, Iwould personally teach that the person hold is Hiki-Te in a more forward position then that shown in the original photo sequence and I would not advocate the use of the Zenkutsu -Dachi in such a long, drawn-out fashion as shown as this would be asking for trouble.

Most Chinese arts would hold the rear hand in a Wu-Sao or guard position protecting the centreline.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I was going to check Roberts website, but I noticed its not where I looked. http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Palace/2264/

Robert where'd ya go?


After all the lies I see on other people's websites I decided to pull mine down.

[Bob Hubbard]

http://community.webshots.com/sym/image3/9/41/25/16894125NKVBCmgnHz_ph.jpg

care to critique this one?

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
RSK,


Some people have studied more than one art and have students that only train in one of those arts themselves. Maybe, the guy in Blue was a Traditional JKA student, so what? Is he still training to learn? Are you trying to say that all Japanese methods of training have no value? I do not get your out attacks here?

Why would RSK attack Japanese training tools? Take a look at his location.

I think he's trying to differentiate the difference between TRAINING TOOLS versus combat. The fact that the guy is trying to do some of the training tools in a self-defense situation is absurd. It would be like a sprinter doing depth jumps during a race.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
http://community.webshots.com/sym/image3/9/41/25/16894125NKVBCmgnHz_ph.jpg

care to critique this one?

All I got was this message:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /sym/image3/9/41/25/16894125NKVBCmgnHz_ph.jpg on this server.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache/1.3.22 Server at community.webshots.com Port 80

[Bob Hubbard]

Link didnt work. Trying again.

Robert, whats your take on this one?

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by grimfang
I will not comment on certain aspects of the initial post here. I am only going to comment on the logistical & technical issues that arise when dealing with live photography and internet content.

The Sikaran Institute of Karate does not use "staged" photos for demonstration purposes. All photos are taken "live." We do not use a professional photographer. We have one student who is generous enough to take 5 minutes of his own time to take the photos for the site. He is not using a high quality camera. It is not capable of taken lots of photos in rapid succession. I suppose the photographer could take more time away from his own studies in order to take better pictures. I suppose we could also spend an entire day each week creating "staged" photos, or adjust the lesson plan for the day in order to accommodate promotional goals. That would not be an appropriate use of anyone's time.

The actual photo selection is chosen by the webmaster. The school trusts the webmaster to use good judgment in photo selection. Because the school has chosen to update the content regularly, it is not always practical or possible for the material to be reviewed prior to uploading. People have other things to worry about, and the website is not the #1 priority for every person at every moment. As a result, some of the photos may not necessarily show all of the details relevant to a full understanding of a technique… in many photos, you are unable to see what the other hand is doing. Also, you can not always see what occurs before or after the action in the picture. We also need to keep in mind that when looking at a photo, you CAN NOT HEAR WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED WITH THE CLASS. The photos only give a small portion of the story, not the whole story. It’s a matter of CONTEXT.

Then, there is the issue of storing the photos. The webmaster does not have a large number of photos to choose from (because, as stated earlier, the photos are taken by a student in class during a 5 minute period.) The webmaster selects photos, uploads what he feels is appropriate, and deletes the rest. If the content were to be removed, then there would be nothing to replace it. The webmaster is under contract to update content on a weekly basis, unless specified in writing. Sorry, that’s the way this internet thing works.

So, what you are seeing is only seeing a small group of photos taken during a live class, without details of what is being said at the moment, taken by an amateur photographer and posted by a webmaster with contractual obligations.
If you have ANY questions, concerns, complaints, comments, or suggestions, please feel free to send them to the webmaster or amateur photographer. He can be reached at grimfang2@yahoo.com

I hope this clarifies some of the issues for everyone. I realize that the issues involved with webdesign & maintenance are not fully understood by those who have not made a career of it.
Maybe I'm missing something :confused:

It doesn't look like some of the pictures were taken live. In the first picture RSK attached, the guy blocking it is looking elsewhere (probably a second camera or something) for demonstration purposes.

[RyuShiKan]

Cute dew rag………

I can’t really make out what they are trying to do……..looks like mid technique.

I would say that the distance between them is somewhat more realistic and both people are standing up right rather than one “posing” in a JKA “kamae”.

[RyuShiKan]

Geez Ron is it possible for you to post a BIGGER photo;)

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Link didnt work. Trying again.

Robert, whats your take on this one?
I think anyone with a brain would find the picture funny

:asian:

Just look at everyone's facial expressions

[tshadowchaser]

If anyone thinks I teach my students to go into a low stance as shownor a deep horse stance when in a street fight . Well.
:rofl:
I'm not even saying there might not be a time and place for in the street Im just saying classic stances have there part in trianing and practice, as do the unorthdox.
I think that if you look at most Martial arts sites the students and or instructor are in stances of one tye or another.
Most static stances have gone out of many systems but some still teach them for a varrity of reasons. I don't question them they have there ways I have mine you have yours.
As for a training tool vs a photo shoot which looks better

[RyuShiKan]

Hang on a second……..first you said: “Plus I told him to do the tech. that way.” then you said: “I simply told him to attack in a stance he choose the one he did.”

Then you said: “If anyone thinks I teach my stdents to go into a low stance as shownor a deep horse stance when in a street fight . Well.”

So my question is still why have your student pose like that for a demo photo?
You claim you don’t teach them to do that………..then why do it?

Sorry I just don’t understand the point those photos were trying to make……..

[Bob Hubbard]

The picture is of folks doing Ryushinkan Karate-Do.

The point here is that our expert in that art wasn't sure exactly what was going on...so, how certain can he, or any of us be of an art he knows nothing about.

:asian:

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
The picture is of folks doing Ryushinkan Karate-Do.

The point here is that our expert in that art wasn't sure exactly what was going on...so, how certain can he, or any of us be of an art he knows nothing about.

:asian:

Do you have the URL to RyuShinKan's website?

Just because it is not clear what is happening in one photo doesn't reflect on another photo from a different website.
I fail to see how they are connected.
I think your "point" was to try and come to the aid of one of your mods.

[tshadowchaser]

try this " do a right hand pnch to the head or chest in any stance you want"
no I said "If anyone thinks I teach my students to go into a low stance as shown or a deep horse stance when in a street fight . Well. :rofl: "
you know its not worth my time to continue this disscussion If yo dont like the site dont go there.
Until you post an equal number of photos ( as on my site) of you and your students doing anything buss off. Whats the matter afraid someonne will pick apart what you do in the photos.
you dont impress me by makeing fun people who do not do things your way
and I have said befor I do have a more classical background in some styles and Yes for some things and some forms I do teach these stances. But onthe street or teaching street techniques things are different. There is a difference between war and dance and photo shoots
waiting to see your 50 or so photos including sequence techniques.

[Bob Hubbard]

http://www.ryushinkan.bravepages.com/

The point is simple.
You took something, out of context, and chose to take it to task, while being unfamiliar with the art (or are you familiar with sikaran?) or the individuals in question.

Well, I took something from your own art, which you teach, yet you weren't 100% certain what was going on.

So, what qualifies you to do it to someone else Robert?

You claim -I- know-nothing in the arts, but I have admited it. You on the otherhand, pass yourself off as the judge, and jury of all that is 'right', and I think folks are tired of it. You could have handled this one 10 different ways, yet you chose to attack.

You could have simple posted a picture and asked 'what is this showing, and why is it there?" Instead, you get sarcastic and make 'matrix' jokes. Fine.

If you have something important to add to this website, then contribute, if all youre gonna do is play 'judge dread' then, why dont you go play with those who study your own art, like on E-Budo? I believe they even have a forum dedicated to your art. We're just generic 'karate'.

Then again, perhaps I've learned something in my short years that you in your long years havent.

Humility and respect.

:shrug:

Robert, either respect our rules and interact with the members here in a polite and respectful way, or leave. You don't have to agree with them or their ideas. You do however have to follow our guidelines.



The other thing is, I've seen a thousand pages with horsestances, yet any intelegent person knows that will result in a shot to the jewels. Do you teach the horsestance Robert?

Any child can take something out of context and make a point. I'd look at your own site, but, its gone. Maybe you're afraid someone else will do to you, what you've done to so many others?

Good evening/morning.
:asian:

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
no I said "If anyone thinks I teach my students to go into a low stance as shown or a deep horse stance when in a street fight . Well. :rofl: "

Which is precisely why I asked why do you have it in your photo/demo if you don’t teach it.


Originally posted by tshadowchaser
you know its not worth my time to continue this disscussion

I see.


Originally posted by tshadowchaser
I do have a more classical background in some styles and Yes for some things and some forms I do teach these stances.



Originally posted by tshadowchaser
Plus I told him to do the tech. that way.



Originally posted by tshadowchaser
I simply told him to attack in a stance he choose the one he did. It was a photo shoot

[RyuShiKan]

Kaith,

Basically all your little photo search did was prove you tried an internet search for my website by typing in ryushikan in a search engine and what you got was ryushinkan.
You were most likely looking for photos on my site but since you found none used the ryushinkan site.

I think I can guess what they are doing.

[RyuShiKan]

and here too........not too hard to figure out.

[Bob Hubbard]

One other small point here Robert...

The person you claim I am defending can handle himself. He wouldn't be a mod here if I thought otherwise.

He is a few things though to me:
-He is a valued member of this board, who has been here almost since day 1.
- He is a valued staff member who has excellent judgement and input.
- He is a paying client of my business
- He is a paying supporter of this board.
- Based on the referer logs, he has brought 5x the people you have here.
- He is a friend
- He is my senior in the arts.


That is who I am 'backing'.

:asian:

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Kaith,

Basically all your little photo search did was prove you tried an internet search for my website by typing in ryushikan in a search engine and what you got was ryushinkan.
You were most likely looking for photos on my site but since you found none used the ryushinkan site.

I think I can guess what they are doing.

Nah, I did a search, found the link to yours, saw it was empty, so backtracked looking for the art.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
- He is a paying client of my business
- He is a paying supporter of this board.



Now we are getting somewhere..........;)

[chufeng]

when one seems to get some heat, others jump in and redirect the issue. Does this seem to scream about your values and ethics?

Since you can't seem to keep the third person singular separate from the second person singular, I am assuming you are referring to me...if not, ignore the following:

Nowhere in my post did I try to redirect the argument...I simply defended a colleague who was absent...if that SCREAMS about my personality...go ahead and broadcast it.

:asian:
chufeng

[Bob Hubbard]

Yes Robert, we are.

He supports this board with his time, his energy and his money.
His concern is the long term viability of this forum.

What have you done besides drive away anyone who you have issues with? What is your concern? You've already said you wouldn't pay for this site.

He's recieved 0 warnings and suspensions since he signed up.

I think youre scores a bit higher there, isn't it?

You've quit in a huff twice already when you didn't get your way.

Certainly the mark of a senior kareteka.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
while being unfamiliar with the art (or are you familiar with sikaran?) or the individuals in question.

I have seen it and had someone “try” to do it to me.
Could have been the person or the art……..can’t say.
Hence my questions about why he is doing those stances for what was some sort of demo or prearranged attack simulation.
If you and your mod buddy would reread my questions they are about the attack………you know the boy in blue…………


Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Well, I took something from your own art, which you teach, yet you weren't 100% certain what was going on.

So if your going to make these kinds of statements make sure you know what you are saying.
That is not my art or what I teach. The name is similar and that is about it.
All Karate that is being taught is not the same.





Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Robert, either respect our rules and interact with the members here in a polite and respectful way, or leave. You don't have to agree with them or their ideas. You do however have to follow our guidelines.

Do you say the same to Moderators like Rich Parsons?



Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I think youre scores a bit higher there, isn't it?

Much higher.



Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
You've quit in a huff twice already when you didn't get your way.


Not because I didn’t get my way……hell I have never gotten my own way on this board.. ….you have to be a bleeding heart liberal to get your way around here.
It was also members of this board and even some of my detractors that emailed me and asked me to come back……..so I did.



Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
What have you done besides drive away anyone who you have issues with?

Maybe given this BBs a wake up call on some issues…..among other things.



Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
You've already said you wouldn't pay for this site.

Why should anyone pay for a MA BBs when there are so many that are free?

[RyuShiKan]

Also………to answer your question about this photo.
They are practicing the use of shuto uchi uke - inside knife hand block........actually the guy on the left is named Masuyama

You may want to show the whole photo next time instead of cropping it.

[RyuShiKan]

And this one from the same website.
They are practicing a typical Shotokan/JKA/Shito Ryu interpretation from a piece of Pinan 3 dan.
They are actually doing Shito Ryu by the way............

[RyuShiKan]

here is the near finish of the technique.

[Bob Hubbard]

You may want to show the whole photo next time instead of cropping it.

Robert, why would I want to present the whole picture? You rarely if ever do.


Do you say the same to Moderators like Rich Parsons?
All mods play by the same rules. Its not our fault that anything said my someone with a mod title is suddenly considered to be 'official'. Rich -has- been warned, -as have I- when things we've said were out of line.

The majority of our warnings issued to any member are in private.


Why should anyone pay for a MA BBs when there are so many that are free?
So is rec.martial-arts. Someone has to pay the bills. Maybe when I get to Japan, you'll let me 'hang out' at your school for free for a year or 2. After all, there is plenty of free martial arts classes out there too.

Oh, and concerning the money thing...Sheldon became a client and paying supporter in May of 2003. That eliminates 1 out of many reasons I back him. I'm very grateful to him, and all of those who have helped out to cover the bills and fund the expansion of this site. It definately wouldnt fit on a Geocities site, or on most shared hosting plans.


I have seen it and had someone “try” to do it to me.
Could have been the person or the art……..can’t say.
My personal experience with 'Karate' says its a joke, but thats based on my own experiences at a local school. I don't doubt the validity of an art based on a limited sample. That whole 'open mind' thing I hear so much about.

Concerning trying to figure out just what is going on in a still picture:
Sure, you might be able to ID something familiar. Then again, I've seen a lot of 'boy that looks awkward/stupid' pics in magazines, books and websites. After a year, I found out that the one leg movement (that looked like a Karate Kid thing) was actually a leg sweep and lift. The pictures however, looked like the 'chicken dance'. Of course, maybe my lack of familiarity with the details of the art had something to do with my lack of understanding?



Robert, if you feel that this board is so bad, then why did you repeatedly ask to be allowed back? I'm certain there are other forums that would be willing to give you your way, award you even for your dedication, experience, etc, in those ways you seem to desire. I wonder what the results would be if we did a public poll here on making you staff vs booting you?

Hmm......:confused:

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Robert, why would I want to present the whole picture? You rarely if ever do.

Not sure what you mean by that.






Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
So is rec.martial-arts. Someone has to pay the bills. Maybe when I get to Japan, you'll let me 'hang out' at your school for free for a year or 2. After all, there is plenty of free martial arts classes out there too.


You are welcome to since my classes are free.



Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Robert, if you feel that this board is so bad, then why did you repeatedly ask to be allowed back?

Because your such a swell guy Bob.

[Bob Hubbard]

Aw, gee, I luvyatooman!

Someone get my bud a beer.

:burp:


I think I'm done with this one....:flushed:

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

I think I'm done with this one....:flushed:


Hahaha:rofl:

[chufeng]

RP,

...still waiting for the question that I apparently missed...

:asian:
chufeng

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I wonder what the results would be if we did a public poll here on making you staff vs booting you?


Do as you like.
I am not interested in being part of the staff here in the least bit.


I do find it interesting how you and the other Mods have taken this thread from a question about a style one of your Mods practices to a thread about me and MT.


My original question still stands:

Why is the person in blue in those photos standing the way he is?

So far I have gotten two answers from tshadowchaser.......one time he said "I told him to stand that way" and then he said "I told him to take a stance".

Altohugh they are answers to a question they are not answers to mine.

It seems odd that someone teaching a Phillippino art and is demonstrating some sort of self-defence techniques would have their student take a very JKA tournament style stance.

Is their a specific reason or was it just the stance he chose?

The reason I bring it up is I find training students to attack each other in such a way is counter productive since most....maybe all people wouldn't attack in such a fashion.

[Bob Hubbard]

Your question was answered a while back.

In addition, you are waging a pursuit in the wrong forum, against rules covering such activity that were put in place specifically due to your SOP to do just that.

Regarding the poll, for kicks, I might just ask the questions, and since you wanted things more public, can serve as a test case.


(edited to correct some horrible spelling errors)

[tshadowchaser]

Here is the answere one more time
not everyone attacks the same way. Street people attack in a number of ways and martial arts people attack in a number of ways depending on there back ground, present training methods, doing what they think was asked, doing what they where told , any and all of the above or maybe because they just did it that way.
No one has said what was going on in specific when the photo's where taken:
what was being discussed
what had hapened befor or after the sequence that was posted.

The pictures didn't make the site might be more informative than what did for the blurr of some motions and the street stances would not have gathered as much flack then again mabe they would have if someone where looking fos something specific.
I am still waiting for the 50+ photos of RSk doing techs. so we all can view them (with open minds of course)

[paihequan]

To be honest I have to support RyuShikan on this one as I feel that the techniques shown are, to be honest, severely lacking in practical application.

In my over 10 years of security experience, I would never take up such a stance in defence ... too many variables such as the involvement of others, impracticality of the stance (lack of mobility) etc.

The issue is that just because this is the way it has been taught throughout the history of the Sikaran/JKA, it does not make it right from a combative point of view. The sad fact is many techniques are exectued in a pose-like fashion to massage the ego. That said, ego is a poor substitute for intelligence.

I feel that although RyuShikan may have worded it better, he did go straight to the heart of the matter and simply asked the questions many of us were considering! :asian:

[paihequan]

In an attempt to balance out the views expressed here, I'll post a image:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken/carp.jpg

It's a photo of myself demonstrating a Crane-Fist technique known as "Carp Swims Against the Current".

My reasoning is that a great many could read into this image what they will, some may openly see the stance shown as being impractical yet not understanding the mechanics nor application principles for same. Some may view the hand formation in the same way and for the same reasoning.

The aspect of single photo's/images on web sites etc is that they are subject to interpretation and do not show the "whole picture".

So while I do agree awith RyuShiKan about the practicality of some of the techniques shown I also have to agree with the others in coming to the understanding that each art has it's own way .... this is why it is called martial "Art"

It all has to do with a matter of viewpoint.

The best viewpoint and perhaps the lesson to come out of all this is ..... that all arts have something to offer. :asian:

[tshadowchaser]

It all has to do with a matter of viewpoint.

The best viewpoint and perhaps the lesson to come out of all this is ..... that all arts have something to offer.

I agree.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by chufeng
RP,



Which question might that be?
Please ask again because I'm not digging through a bunch of threads to find it...

In fact, I thought the RSK/DAC/ARK issue was over...
You might notice my absence from any of those follow-on arguments.

Hold weight with whom?
The only one I hold any weight on is YiLiQuan1...I am his senior...but, I do not censor his comments, nor do I advise him on how to post...

My earlier comment to you seems to have set under you like a burr, sorry...let me remove it.

As a moderator, when jumping in with an opinion, people will still see it as a moderator's comment...plain and simple...quite frankly, I don't care how you post, but given the way things have gone recently, it seems the people who make completely outrageous claims have a better foot-hold than those who actually have something solid to contribute. I do my best to stay within the rules that YOU and your cohorts come up with...but I am growing weary of the bull-scat here as well...the only reason I stick around is because some of the members here may actually teach me something...and I may have something worthwhile to contribute.

As I said earlier...if you didn't know yiliquan1 was on sabattical, then my post was to inform you of same...I hold no grudge against you...but if you did know, then that small fragment of your post was out of line.

...again, please repost your question...I'll be happy to respond.

:asian:
chufeng

chufeng
:asian:

I will dig them up and let you know the next time I have a couple of hours to go dig. :)

As to the Frauds, I think in the Bad Budo section, there is a post that credits you and your friends. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8442

I think this is good.

Now to remove a burr or two that seems to be under your saddle m friend.

I may not care for how some people executed theri questioning.

I may not have cared how it mayhave gotten out of hand and numerous threads had to be locked.

I do care, that threads that were not directly involved with a subject were continuously hi-jacked from both sides and no one could post for a while. That as a Moderator, I do care about. It makes the new people and those not ready to post yet, unsure if they should post.

Now, just because I do not like the way someone argues or tries to make a difference, does not mean I cannot respect them, nor respect their goal. I amy just not like the path they have chosen to get there. Yet, that is what makes us individuals and allows us the freedom to grow. I have never told you or your friends that you cuold not post on a subject, nor that could not discuss something, only to be friendly or to ask a question.

As to YiLiQuin1, I did know he was on leave, and I was trying to make a point, that his opinion would have been nice and respected, and desired by myself. You took wrong. For some reason, and you claim you have no ill will toward me, nothing I say can make you feel at ease or understadn that I am nto mad or out to get anyone. I am only trying to allow everyone a chance to post and or learn here.

In MY opinion it would be a shame for either of you to leave, yet if that is your wish then so be it.


As to the Moderator issue, well many will see that you are YiLiQuin1's instructor and they will make assumptions about you also. I cannot stop that. Nor Can I stop them from making assumptions about myself.


So, in your opinion, would it be much more appropraite if the Moderators had two accounts. Their normal posting account and then their Moderator Account? All post from the Moderator Account would offical types, where the regular account would be the opinion and issues and instruction and question posts??


No Hard Feelings, Just very confused sometimes, by how people always want it only their way, and when you approach them with their own arguements and their own tactics, they then want to go home like little children. I had hopes that people would not do that, but would respond and answer the questions when they are asked.

I apologize for hurting your feelings, and there was never an insult meant for anyone of you or your students.

Have A Nice Day
:asian:

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by chufeng
Since you can't seem to keep the third person singular separate from the second person singular, I am assuming you are referring to me...if not, ignore the following:

Nowhere in my post did I try to redirect the argument...I simply defended a colleague who was absent...if that SCREAMS about my personality...go ahead and broadcast it.

:asian:
chufeng

See Previous Post Sir,

I just never saw it as an attack and therefore in need of defense.

You have this assumption about me that I will do the worse, from the word go. I do not know how to make this better for you. You have this issue, if you wish to discuss it with me in person or in private or here in public on a separate thread.

And as to the redirect, the issue was that you were upset that I mentioned a friend and student of yours. Yet you seem to nit pick about the tense of prose. I do apologize for mixing tense and persons. I will do my best to make sure this is done so, for you in the future. Oh Wait this puts us right back with me not being able to get or post an opinion. So, you see, You have redirected me, from RSK, since I am posting to you about Word Tense and Person Choice in the prose.

I have no issue with you personally. see previous post. I do wish we could direct the issue I perceive from you though, that I am always wrong. Makes feel almost like I am married again. Oh I can be wrong, and I have admitted it when I realize or have been shown it, many others refuse to they just leave or change the subject.

Now to direct once again, I never meant an attack against your student.

OK?

I did mention that his input would be appreciated.


I am sorry you, can only see the evil or bad side of things, especially with me. I apologize for causing you these problems.
:asian:

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan

. . .

Do you say the same to Moderators like Rich Parsons?

. . .





Rich--
I'm writing on behalf of the Admin. Team in reference to the warning you posted here. With as many mods. and admins. as we have now, we think it's important that we all follow the standard template, without additional comments. We don't want to dampen your enthusiasm for taking on this task, but we are placing a value on presenting a uniform front! Thanks.
-Jeff


For the record, one of my Warnings that I have kept, just to remind me of what is acceptable even for a Moderator.



Rich Parsons
MT Moderator
:asian:

[Cthulhu]

I have issued warnings to my fellow admins.

Cthulhu

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by chufeng
RP,

...still waiting for the question that I apparently missed...

:asian:
chufeng

I was busy at work, sir, and I as I have only gotten this far through this thread and not many others, and have to go to bed soon for work again in the morning, I will ask for your patience in waitng for me to reply.


And if this a tactic to use my own words against me, then cool! :cool:

You see the difference here was that RSK was online and spouting off about posts ebing deleted as opposed to looking for new posts and seeing sikiran in the name field and checking it out. It he was on and off line without posting, form the time i asked the questions and then posted the waiting comment.

I can tell you one of them was What does a dead horse have to do with the post at hand?

Another one was in the Pissed off Thread, no one responded, I assumed I was being ignored. :asian:

I will get them all together, and post them in a separate thread just for us ok? Should I limit them to just the ones on hand or all the olds that may not be realavent at this time.

I will be at work, and then taking a private, and on Wednesday, I teach, and then on Thursday, I have a work party to go too, so it migt be Friday or Saturday before I can complete the list. Unless you just wish to answer the ones posted here.

1) What is so wrong with me, that I am alwaysd wrong in your book?

2) What did I do that made you think you must first ignore me then try to argue with me. (* Look it up :D *)

3) Any of the questions mentioned above.

:asian:

[Shuri-te]

There has been an argument made on this thread regarding the appropriateness of a deep front stance. This stance has use in both fighting, as well as training.

Regarding training, the photo clearly shows the person playing the role of attacker, not a defender. There has been criticism of this stance as being a bad fighting (i.e. defensive) stance and this position overlooks the obvious fact that the person is attacking.

Regarding an attacking stance, for training, this stance provides an excellent foundation for developing more explosive lower body attacking speed. Having the weight back and low requires a lot of thrust from the legs and hips to generate forward momentum. In the long run, this can training can have a significant pay off.

I am a big proponent of partner training. In my school, we defend primarily against head strikes. The stance that the attack is delivered in is an upright stance, as it is meant to simulate a true attack. The attacker's right hand is extended during the attack. In my school, sometimes students make use of the traditional chamber on the hip for the left hand, and sometimes the left is held up high to protect the face and be well positioned for a follow up strike to the head or neck. We do a mix of the traditional chamber and head-protection chamber, because both have their uses or applications.

Here's an example of a common use of the left hand in chamber on the hip, while the right arm is striking: An arm bar that looks just like a right lunge punch. The left hand traps the right hand, and while stepping forward, the right arm strikes forward, raking the triceps tendon with the ulna bone on the forearm. During the trapping and arm bar movements, the left hand grabs hold of the forearm and secures it to the hip, further rotating it with the natural counterclockwise chamber motion (palm up). There is utility in practicing this chamber, as well as one raised to protect the head.

I have been in lots of schools that do partner work where the attacker starts in a high stance, and either steps in or shuffles in for the attack, maintaining a high stance. The practice of this attack does little to condition the lower body. And it is my experience that the more partner work done like this, (in my dojo we do a great deal) the less intense the workout for the students. However, if the attacking student begins in a low stance and ends in a high stance, he is training his lower body during the attack. Is the attack slower, sure, but the defender doesn't need to sacrifice. He can wait longer before initiating the defensive combination.

My goal is to have students maximize their training time in the dojo. We tweak routines, partner work, and kata to try and get the best training possible. And hanging out in a deep stance and charging forward from a deep stance is a remarkably good way to increase the conditioning of the legs while in the dojo.

The deep stance also has a variety of uses in actual fighting. I can provide some uses if there is interest.

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
I have issued warnings to my fellow admins.

Ditto--and I recvd one as a moderator (and perhaps since--I don't recall).

(Please excuse my late reply as I have been traveling out of the country for work and only just returned home this afternoon.)

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

[Shuri-te]

Arnisador,

Welcome back.

[arnisador]

Thanks! Good to see you back a well!