kempo-muy thai

[liam]

I practice kempo since three years and because I'd like to improve my general martial arts skills, I have decided to also practice (besides kempo-my "first love") muy thai. I already went to a muy thai training and was very impressed. I'm sure that my skills in kempo will encrease thanks to MT.

Has anyone a similar "experience" that he would like to share (?), thanks in advance!

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

IMHO, Muay Thai is an excellent complement to Kenpo. You may here differently from some Kenpo devotees who think that everything there is to know is contained in Kenpo, but I think it is a good combo.

Muay Thai will help you with punching and kicking power. You'll learn to execute effective leg kicks, throw knees and elbows from a clinch, and to defend against those. Muay Thai conditioning is tops.

Go for it.

[Elfan]

I know a several kenpo school's that borrow heavily from Muay Thai "stuf" and I think overall it has been benificial to them.

[gravity]

I've only got 4 years of MA experience, 2 and a half of those in EPAK Kenpo. I personally find MT quite complimentary with Kenpo.

I recently came back from Bangkok, Thailand where I spent 2 weeks in a professional Muay Thai Camp. In my personal opinion the Muay Thai experience was first rate, after the training sessions I never felt more confident and at peace with everything in my life (training about 6 hours a day). I guess getting whacked in the head and thighs makes everything else seem small. I remember getting pushed in public places, the trains and markets and I would smile....the stupid idiotic kind of grin :D

I loved the MT experience so much that I plan on heading back to Thailand early next year for more .... how should I put it....adventures in pain :rofl:

[liam]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
IMHO, Muay Thai is an excellent complement to Kenpo. You may here differently from some Kenpo devotees who think that everything there is to know is contained in Kenpo, but I think it is a good combo.

Muay Thai will help you with punching and kicking power. You'll learn to execute effective leg kicks, throw knees and elbows from a clinch, and to defend against those. Muay Thai conditioning is tops.

Go for it.

Indeed, I think that much (if not all) of muy thai can be found in kempo-sparring but the training methods are completely different.
Kempo (our school): 1° 20 minutes stretching and other (e.g. sit ups and the like) ecercises-to be performed individualy-2° 20 minutes working with the bags (kicks), 3° 40 minutes self-defence techniques.

Muy thai : 1 hour warming up (I tought I would not made it through the end...), 20 minutes techniques, 10 minutes sparring.

Thanks for the support. I'll give feedback in a couple of months.

[liam]

Originally posted by gravity
I've only got 4 years of MA experience, 2 and a half of those in EPAK Kenpo. I personally find MT quite complimentary with Kenpo.

I recently came back from Bangkok, Thailand where I spent 2 weeks in a professional Muay Thai Camp. In my personal opinion the Muay Thai experience was first rate, after the training sessions I never felt more confident and at peace with everything in my life (training about 6 hours a day). I guess getting whacked in the head and thighs makes everything else seem small. I remember getting pushed in public places, the trains and markets and I would smile....the stupid idiotic kind of grin :D

I loved the MT experience so much that I plan on heading back to Thailand early next year for more .... how should I put it....adventures in pain :rofl:

wow, must be an incredible experience; do you have any links concerning those camps?

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
IMHO, Muay Thai is an excellent complement to Kenpo. You may here differently from some Kenpo devotees who think that everything there is to know is contained in Kenpo, but I think it is a good combo.

...


But then it is questionable if you like Kenpo or not... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Yes. It is questionable. Doing Kenpo on & off for 30 years (22 years very steady) since 1973. Love Kenpo, but a little tired of some of the dogma. Wish all Kenpo people were as wonderful as the best of us are and the rest of us think we are.

[Sigung86]

I hear ya Brutha! Been in it and at it since 1963! Kind of feel the same way most of the time.

[gravity]

Originally posted by liam
wow, must be an incredible experience; do you have any links concerning those camps?

The first 2 links are for camps in Bangkok, the country side is more obsure and its unusual for them to have websites sites.

http://www.thailandroad.com/jittigym/ (this is where I trained)

http://www.fairtexbkk.com/ (hope to train here next time round)

http://lannamuaythai.com/ (might train here next time...its up north, far from Bangkok - the site has heaps of interesting info on training experience & tips)

Enjoy :asian:

[Touch Of Death]

We work a lot of MT ideas these days in the school in which I train. Much of the same teaching can be found in the Benny the Jet seminars ( a must if you ever go to the Vegas Camp). MT offers so much protection it makes you wonder what the hell you were thinking before. Its blood simple my freinds.

[purplekenposkunk]

Did they teach you the Tiger Uppercut?

http://photopile.com/photos/carbonwafer/Martialtalk/18814.gif

[MJS]

Originally posted by liam
I practice kempo since three years and because I'd like to improve my general martial arts skills, I have decided to also practice (besides kempo-my "first love") muy thai. I already went to a muy thai training and was very impressed. I'm sure that my skills in kempo will encrease thanks to MT.

Has anyone a similar "experience" that he would like to share (?), thanks in advance!

Better be careful with a post like this..it might get you into some trouble with some of the traditionalists on here. In case you have not noticed, some people think that Kenpo has it all. Don't be surprised if you hear "Why do Muay Thai, when Kenpo has all those kicks?"

Regardless of what some people think, I think that you are on the road to making yourself better. I also crosstrain and I find that it helps me greatly! Keep it up!!

MJS

[MJS]

Originally posted by Elfan
I know a several kenpo school's that borrow heavily from Muay Thai "stuf" and I think overall it has been benificial to them.

Robert--Did you read that?

MJS

[MJS]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Yes. It is questionable. Doing Kenpo on & off for 30 years (22 years very steady) since 1973. Love Kenpo, but a little tired of some of the dogma. Wish all Kenpo people were as wonderful as the best of us are and the rest of us think we are.

OFK-- All I can say is Ditto!! Once agin, more true words!!

MJS

[rmcrobertson]

Yep, sure did. And the way these posts are worded reinforces my general sense of being correct about a) the misunderstanding of kenpo's fundamental concepts and claims; b) the difference between those studying martial arts to become better fighters only and other interests; c) the extent to which "going outside," kenpo to, "fill up the holes in the system," is an endless enterprise; d) the dream of efficiency and invincibility.

And if we've absolutely got to personalize everything, could we try at least to render what I write accurately?

I think it's great that folks have time for all this cross-training. I think it's wonderful that they can learn so much. I look forward, over time, to reading about and witnessing all that they discover. Good for you, guys.

I simply don't agree that the motivation for this has anything to do with the faults of kenpo.

And--call me wacky--I'd still be pleased to see a smidgen of respect for us wacky "traditionalists." Not that I think this is in any way an accurate term.

[Touch Of Death]

Wacky,
Forget the holes in Kenpo stuff. If you were to train in the school down the street, reguardless of the system, you would benefit from the different ways of thinking. I think Roger Waters stated it best... "Tear down the wall.".

[Turner]

Originally posted by MJS
Robert--Did you read that?

MJS

I am assuming that you are saying this in friendly jest, but people can't tell that for certain without clarification. Remember that you are a direct reflection on your instructor and your method of training, not only on yourself.

Antagonistic remarks only serve to instantly discredit you no matter how much truth is in what you say. If you wish to be heard and remembered, speak quietly so that people will have to lean forward to hear what you say. Those that scream and shout at the top of their lungs get ignored.

I don't have much to say on the issue of combining Muay Thai with Kenpo since I haven't tried Muay Thai. However I have been a live-in student at a Kyokushin Karate School. Kyokushin can probably look like a distant relative of Muay Thai and I think the two fit well together.

Doug

[MJS]

Yup, that is exactly what it was...a friendly jest. No harm meant. I just wanted to point out that I am not the only one that sees nothing wrong with crosstraining.

As for antagonistic remarks, well, you might check back to some other responses. Some people can't accept someone elses reply and insist on going on and on and on and on....

MJS

[MJS]

OK...maybe someone can answer this question. In Kenpo, we have a roundhouse kick. It is your traditional kick, done with the usual snapping movement. Muay Thai also has a roundhouse kick. Rather than do the snap, they are putting their entire body behind the kick, which results in a very powerful kick. Most of these kicks by the way are delivered to the leg. Now, why can't you take the idea behind the MT round kick and add it to the Kenpo roundkick? Its still a RH kick, but you have changed it, making it more powerful. You are not studying MT, you are simply taking a concept. This is some of what I'm saying. I have NEVER once said to abandon your Kenpo, but look to another style to borrow an idea. This is somehow translated into crosstraining!! I don't see how?

Also, the difference between fighting and SD? I am not talking about entering the UFC, I'm talking about if you need to defend yourself, because someone is trying to attack you, don't you need to fight? You can sugar coat it anyway you like, but the fact remains, that you are still fighting. When doing the Sd tech of Kenpo, should you not train for that real confrontation? Hey, maybe not everybody does, but by thinking an attacker is going to stand there, give you no resistance, and move the way you want, all while delivering a multitude of strikes, we are living in a fantasy land, cuz it isn't going to be like that.

Nobody has ever said that they are invincible or are the ulitamte fighter. But, if all these ideas that everything is already there in Kenpo, then why are they not brought into the light right away starting with the new student?? Why do you have to wait until you reach BB, before you discover all the secrets? You should gradually bring this out and continue all the way to the end. Is it not important for the yellow, orange and purple belts to know this? Or is it just reserved for the advanced ranks? By not explaining this in the beginning we are doing noting but cheating the beginner out of alot of knowledge.

MJS

[qizmoduis]

At my AK school we learn both the chambered roundhouse and unchambered. The first uses the instep as the striking surface, while the second generally uses the shin. For both kicks, we've been taught to put your hips into the kick for more power. Unless, of course, you're going for pure speed.

The cut-kick is also fun.

Some of you folks who insist on finding "holes" may be just a little too rigid in your thinking, I think.

Since I'm only a blue-belt, I could be wrong, but I'd personally defer to my instructor over an anonymous board-poster.

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

The cross-training vs Kenpo deep study debate has been going on too long. We will never solve it, so I want to offer this analogy about the two smartest people I've ever met. Both of these are real people that I have known/knew for years.

Smartest guy # 1 was a radio announcer in New York since the 1930's. He spoke the most beautiful American English I have ever heard. When he was a child, his parents had him MEMORIZE an entire page of the dictionary EVERY day. He continued this practice into his adult life until he had mastered -- and I do not exagerate -- the entire Oxford unabridged dictionary. He completed this study in his early 70's and died in his 80's. His vocabulary grammer, and oratory was unparalleled. He could find the right words for any situation. He could state things in the simplest clearest manner possible so that EVERYBODY could understand, and he could use big fancy words so that NOBODY could understand him.

Smartest guy # 2 was a professional interpreter working for the League of Nations before WWII. He was the son of immigrants who ran a boarding house for new immigrants from many different countries. He studied languages in school and college. He was fluent in 9 languages and had an ear for accents. In WWII, he was drafted by the OSS, the precursor to the CIA. He went to Morocco posing as a Belgian -- even though he had never been to Belgium. His French language and accent skills did not betray his identity. He also went to North Russia in WWII and used his Russian language skills to get information from drunken officers and pass it on to the US Gov't. His memoirs are in a book titled "To Catch a Shadow" available on Amazon.com

The question here, and the question debated on this and at least a half-dozen other threads, is which is smarter the man who mastered one language, or the man who was fluent in many. You know what? The question about the two men is unanswerable. Neither can we simply answer the question about whether cross-training is more valuable than mastering Kenpo. There is clearly value in both paths.

Perhaps the analogy can help guide us. If we strive to be the most eloquent and masterful speaker/writer in our own language and country, then the path of in-depth study of a single language is the best path. If we strive to be a world traveler and converse with others in far away lands, then multiple languages is the best path. So too with martial arts study. Our goals and objectives must guide the choice of our path. Many of us have different goals and objectives and choose different paths. We need to acknowledge the merits of each others' paths with an open mind and with the respectful tone associated with Kenpo practice.

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by MJS
Nobody has ever said that they are invincible or are the ulitamte fighter. But, if all these ideas that everything is already there in Kenpo, then why are they not brought into the light right away starting with the new student?? Why do you have to wait until you reach BB, before you discover all the secrets? You should gradually bring this out and continue all the way to the end. Is it not important for the yellow, orange and purple belts to know this? Or is it just reserved for the advanced ranks? By not explaining this in the beginning we are doing noting but cheating the beginner out of alot of knowledge.

MJS

If your instructor doesn't know how to do it, how can he possibly pass it down? If you don't know it, how are you going to pass it down? When are you guys gonna get off thinking everybody is doing and learning Kenpo the same as you, they're/we're not. You're taking way too many generalizations in the course of these threads and to the common onlooker, Kenpo people don't know anything by the looks of these posts. In the future, would you please state that in your opinion, or where and how you train this is or isn't true? I don't train where you train and I don't appreciate people advocating that's how it's done all over. I teach a MT style roundhouse kick sometimes at Day One of training, complete with the rotation of the supporting foot.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[Scott Bonner]

Greetings, MJS.

I'll try to touch on your questions quickly.

1) There's no reason why a kenpoist wouldn't learn about the M-T style round. However, it wouldn't be a commonly used move because it's easy to block (in painful ways, I might add), relatively easy to see coming, and with proper follow-through leaves you open to certain counters (not allowed in M-T matches, so it isn't a vulnerability for M-T practitioners).

2) Does your instructor actually claim that you'll be able to pull off a complete self-defence technique with the bad guy just standing around? I bet not. The SD Techniques are teaching tools that are designed to never leave you in a lurch for what to do next when in a real self-defense situation. I don't intend to spend the time explaining this to you. It's been explained before by people infinitely more knowledgeable than me -- in books, on forums, and web pages. It's easy enough to find.

3) If Kenpo has secrets, someone wasn't paying attention. Mr. Parker purposefully "de-mystified" the martial arts. Things are taught in a progressive order, of course, and one would be a fool to do it otherwise. However, there shouldn't be any secrets, though it may seem so if one's instructor is less informed than some other instructor, so that what the other guy shows you seems like a secret revelation.

That being said, there are certainly enough Kenpoist out there doing the whole "oriental mystery art", "magic man on the mountain" flim-flam.

Just my opinions and limited knowledge.

Peace,
Scott

[qizmoduis]

Imagine trying to teach calculus to kindergartners.

:rofl:

[MJS]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
If your instructor doesn't know how to do it, how can he possibly pass it down? If you don't know it, how are you going to pass it down? When are you guys gonna get off thinking everybody is doing and learning Kenpo the same as you, they're/we're not. You're taking way too many generalizations in the course of these threads and to the common onlooker, Kenpo people don't know anything by the looks of these posts. In the future, would you please state that in your opinion, or where and how you train this is or isn't true? I don't train where you train and I don't appreciate people advocating that's how it's done all over. I teach a MT style roundhouse kick sometimes at Day One of training, complete with the rotation of the supporting foot.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

You're correct! If he doesn't know it, then how is he going to pass it down. But, if there is a question that he cannot answer, then are you saying that you should not go and find the answer on your own? I realize everybody trains differently, I have said that many times before. I realize that every school is different, but if someone is teaching something, such as the MT roundkick, they have obviously learned it from somewhere else...I guess they must have crosstrained.

Mike

[MJS]

Originally posted by Scott Bonner
Greetings, MJS.

I'll try to touch on your questions quickly.

1) There's no reason why a kenpoist wouldn't learn about the M-T style round. However, it wouldn't be a commonly used move because it's easy to block (in painful ways, I might add), relatively easy to see coming, and with proper follow-through leaves you open to certain counters (not allowed in M-T matches, so it isn't a vulnerability for M-T practitioners).

Easy to block? But if you dont block it right, it'll cut right through your defense. Easy to see coming? And a regualr RH kick insn't? MT fighters, if whrn throwing the kick miss, they usually continue the spinning motion, so as to face the opp. again.

2) Does your instructor actually claim that you'll be able to pull off a complete self-defence technique with the bad guy just standing around? I bet not. The SD Techniques are teaching tools that are designed to never leave you in a lurch for what to do next when in a real self-defense situation. I don't intend to spend the time explaining this to you. It's been explained before by people infinitely more knowledgeable than me -- in books, on forums, and web pages. It's easy enough to find.

No, he doesn't.


3) If Kenpo has secrets, someone wasn't paying attention. Mr. Parker purposefully "de-mystified" the martial arts. Things are taught in a progressive order, of course, and one would be a fool to do it otherwise. However, there shouldn't be any secrets, though it may seem so if one's instructor is less informed than some other instructor, so that what the other guy shows you seems like a secret revelation.

That being said, there are certainly enough Kenpoist out there doing the whole "oriental mystery art", "magic man on the mountain" flim-flam.

Just my opinions and limited knowledge.

Peace,
Scott

[MJS]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
You're taking way too many generalizations in the course of these threads and to the common onlooker, Kenpo people don't know anything by the looks of these posts.
Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde [/B]

I never said they don't know anything. But, it seems to me that some are more concerned with not looking bad and saying that the art covers everything, when in fact it doesn't.

Mike

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by MJS
I realize that every school is different, but if someone is teaching something, such as the MT roundkick, they have obviously learned it from somewhere else...I guess they must have crosstrained.

Mike


Yea, whatever

Clyde

[MJS]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Yea, whatever

Clyde

Yup, its ok to admit it Clyde. Some of us do crosstrain, and are not ashamed to admit it either.

MJS

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by MJS
Yup, its ok to admit it Clyde. Some of us do crosstrain, and are not ashamed to admit it either.

MJS

Yea, whatever

Clyde

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Clyde, MJS: You two really ought to take your personal fight outside. Like maybe over to the KenpoNet (just kidding).

[rmcrobertson]

That's what an MT roundhouse kick is? I'll be damned. I learned it, in plain ol' kenpo, as a thrusting roundhouse, the complement to a snapping roundhouse. Similarly, there are snapping/thrusting sidekicks, snapping/thrusting front ball kicks...huh.

I might add that if one examines the roundhouse kicks in, say, Attacking Mace and Shield and Sword, this same distinction between kicks appears as part of that there old-fashioned curriculum....

Part of the reason this binary opposition is embedded in kenpo is to sketch out the opposite ends of a spectrum of possible kicks.

Whoops, almost forgot. To suggest that MT offers a "more powerful," kick, one not present in kenpo, is not simply inaccurate. It also privileges "power," over two more important considerations, I would argue: effectiveness, and appropriateness. The best, "strongest," kick isn't always the one that pumps out the most foot-pounds.

P.S. And...well...I haven't yet got to a question my present instructor can't answer.

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
That's what an MT roundhouse kick is? I'll be damned. I learned it, in plain ol' kenpo, as a thrusting roundhouse, the complement to a snapping roundhouse. Similarly, there are snapping/thrusting sidekicks, snapping/thrusting front ball kicks...huh.

I might add that if one examines the roundhouse kicks in, say, Attacking Mace and Shield and Sword, this same distinction between kicks appears as part of that there old-fashioned curriculum....

Part of the reason this binary opposition is embedded in kenpo is to sketch out the opposite ends of a spectrum of possible kicks.

Whoops, almost forgot. To suggest that MT offers a "more powerful," kick, one not present in kenpo, is not simply inaccurate. It also privileges "power," over two more important considerations, I would argue: effectiveness, and appropriateness. The best, "strongest," kick isn't always the one that pumps out the most foot-pounds.

P.S. And...well...I haven't yet got to a question my present instructor can't answer.

So Robert, what would we do without the Korean arts so that we may learn to do the attack for Deceptive Panther? So now I have to cross train to figure out how to do a double roundhouse, wherever will it end? Who loves ya baby?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[rmcrobertson]

Yeah, and thank god nobody in kenpo knows how to do a jump-switch roundhouse kick....hell, if they did some sadistic black belt might throw them into warm-ups for his group classes...good thing I studied under the Dodger game where Chan Ho Park threw one (and promptly got his clock cleaned)....

[D.Cobb]

I realize that every school is different, but if someone is teaching something, such as the MT roundkick, they have obviously learned it from somewhere else...I guess they must have crosstrained.

Yeah, well if you were to look to the deep dark origins of American Kenpo, you know, go back to the Okinawan or even the Chinese roots.... guess what, the kick that you are all calling the
"Muay Thai" round kick, was being done, back then, by them..
So you see you don't have to borrow the kick from MT, it's already in EPAK.

--Dave


:asian:

[Fastmover]

I think one thing that everyone could borrow from the MT folks
is their methods of training. The way we train ulitmately will
decide what we become and these MT guys have that "put down
your purse and lets bang" mentality on a day in and day out
bases. Because of this they perform their vocabulary of
motion very well. Of course we can do the same thing, but I
think this has to be measured carefully weighing some pros and
cons.

From my personal observation, the MT folks are more extreme
with the training methods, but the down side of this I have found
much more MT fighters with permanent physical injuries even
mental injuries from the poundings they have taken. Obviously
this may not be for everyone.

Im a big fan of these guys and have no doubt of their skill, a skill
that has been honed by intense training.

Just my thoughts

[MJS]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
Yeah, well if you were to look to the deep dark origins of American Kenpo, you know, go back to the Okinawan or even the Chinese roots.... guess what, the kick that you are all calling the
"Muay Thai" round kick, was being done, back then, by them..
So you see you don't have to borrow the kick from MT, it's already in EPAK.

--Dave


:asian:

So the MT kick was created by the Okinawans and Chinese?? Yeah, ok..If it was being done back then, it was probably because it was added to their list of kicks....borrowed from MT.

[MJS]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Yea, whatever

Clyde

More wonderful words of wisdom I see.

Mike

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by MJS
More wonderful words of wisdom I see.

Mike

Yea, whatever

Clyde

[qizmoduis]

Originally posted by MJS
So the MT kick was created by the Okinawans and Chinese?? Yeah, ok..If it was being done back then, it was probably because it was added to their list of kicks....borrowed from MT.

Rigid thinking.

Honestly, this is possibly the second stupidest argument I've seen on this board. This is straight out of the nuthouse of Bullshido.com

"He's not doing Wing Chun! He did something that wasn't chain punching"

"He threw a shin-kick! That's Muay Thai, not Kenpo"

"Look, He did a <whatever>. That doesn't fit my narrowly preconceived notion of <insert art here>"

Blah blah blah.

I just spent the whole morning doing nothing but low shin-kicks in Kenpo class today. Since I wasn't chambering, I guess I wasn't doing Kenpo.

Not only were we practicing shin-kicks today, but we were learning when to throw them, and when NOT to. I think that's an important point that some miss in their fervor to prove that <insert art that is not Muay Thai or BJJ> sucks.

Rigid thinking.

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by MJS
So the MT kick was created by the Okinawans and Chinese?? Yeah, ok..If it was being done back then, it was probably because it was added to their list of kicks....borrowed from MT.

I think it was Clyde who said it best, when he said,

Yea, whatever


--Dave

:asian:

[rmcrobertson]

Just to pick up on something posted a bit earlier, I'm curious about putting together the ideas that a) we could learn a lot from muy thai, and b) muy thai folks seem to acquire a lot of injuries.

Perhaps one of the differences between the two has to do with the safety--short and long-term--of training? I'd be interested to see if anyone suspects, as I do, that part of the reason for the fairly-structured kenpo system is to cut back on damage?

[MJS]

qiz--- All I'm saying is that, fine, if you spent the entire morning doing Thai kicks, great. It just amazes me though that people can take a kick from another art and pass it off as something that they have been dong all along. You are dong exactly what I say that we all should be doing...borrowing things from other arts and adding them to your own training, to make yourself better.

For someone to take the rapid fire punches from Wing Chun and call it Kenpo or TKD or any other art, when it isnt, is wrong!

Mike

[rmcrobertson]

So...Mike, could you explain the difference built into the roundhouse kicks in Attacking Mace and Shield and Sword? Sure looks to me as though one's a thrusting roundhouse and one's a snapping roundhouse...

I don't quite get what the big deal is...after all, the arts all probably are Indian and Chinese adaptations of even older fighting techniques...so...

"Good poets borrow, great ones steal," is what we say in the lit game. From the first, I heard that Mr. Parker built kenpo as a rationalization of what was in other martial arts...one of several things that makes this "inside," and "outside," a hopeless discussion.

[MJS]

There is no big deal. I was just stating that by doing these kicks which are borrowed from other arts, we are all in a sense cross training.

Mike

[Kenpomachine]

First, there's many things which develop at the same time in different places, sometimes thousand of miles away. Are they borrowing from one another? Not necessarily.
Second, the guy asked about muay thai. And we have probably confused him more than we've helped. By the way, I don't remember who started this thread, but if you're still looking for an anwers, think about what would you expect from the new classes. Then, if you feel that's not being covered in your kenpo class and it is being covered in the muay thai, go for it. But you must know first what do you want from the new class.

[MJS]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rmcrobertson
[B]So...Mike, could you explain the difference built into the roundhouse kicks in Attacking Mace and Shield and Sword? Sure looks to me as though one's a thrusting roundhouse and one's a snapping roundhouse...

You're correct Robert. The kick in Attacking Mace is more of a Thai style kick. Depending how close they are to you though, you might be better off throwing a knee rather than a round kick. Times when I've done this, the person is so close that I feel I'd get more power with that. But, you're correct, you are hitting with the shin. Might not get as much power as if you were farther away from the person and throwing the kick to the leg.

Mike