Anybody know how many people Mr. Parker promoted to 10th degree or maybe I should say how many he put his name on the certificate for their 10th?
And who they where?

Do you mean of American Kenpo, or did you mean recognize the person as creating their own unique martial art?

In American Kenpo, Mr. Parker promoted a handful of people to 7'th Deg.

I think he also promoted Elvis Presley to 8'th in the 70s. I have never heard of any other promotion by him above 7'th in American Kenpo.

But who am I to know what Mr. Parker did, really? :asian:

Mr. Parker promoted no one to 10th.

:asian:

The Kenpo Exchange (http://www.freewebz.com/kenpoexchange/)

How many did he reconise as creating their own art?
If I'm correct Nick Cerio (sp) was promoted to grandmaster and Mr. Parkers was one of the people who promoted and agreed with this. I've heard there where others.
No disrespect to anyone ment.
Shadow

Ed Parker ranked no one to 10th. He gave some 7ths, an 8th to Elvis, and signed Nick Cerios certificate, but never gave him the rank. He just agreed.

Any of the 10th today have given themselves that rank or been given it through associations they run etc.

But then again, no one ranked Parker to 10th either.

Ok, Parker never Promoted anyone to 10th but did sign a few certificates. Now after his death I know there was a lot of internal conflict with more than a few people thing they should take over. Yes I know that his son now runs that segment of the Kempo family.
Anyone have any idea how many branches where created at that te by people wanting to run things.
I had just finshed studying with Steve Spry Befor Mr. Parkers death and I know That steve now runs his own Organisation.
Its not my place to say if he deserves to be the head man in anything I just dont think a 3rd dan should jump to the top of the list.
I know there are others who did the same thing and its a shame (imo) that gread and can distroy ansystem so easaly. I have seen it befor but it still bothers me
Shadow

Ed Parker Jr. doesn't run any organization. He will sell you manuals and stuff if you ask and his own artwork but he's basically an artist. He's been asked to run a lot of things and always declined.

However, I in no way shape or form speak for Ed Parker Jr. He does that for himself.

I have spoken with Steve Spry and actually bought a lifetime membership in his organization back in the day. However I no longer train with/under his organization. He seemed like a nice guy when I spoke with him.

There are a ton of Kenpo guys out there. Every kenpo page has weblinks. I myself have a page, although I only list people I would suggest people check out.

http://members.tripod.com/~kenpo_ronin/seminars.html

This page is by no means complete but a starting guide.

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
its a shame (imo) that greed can destroy a system so easily. I have seen it before but it still bothers me

...and you'll see it again.

"Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful ship, the passengers set sail that day, on a man's life long trip!

The weather started getting rough, the head of the system lost! If not for the courage of a few arnisadors, the arnis would be tossed.

The ship set ground on the shore of this unchartered desert isle, the passengers all jumped off the boat, yelling "I'm now the king" to the rank and file!"

In other words...Watch Modern Arnis. Now that Remy is gone they'll tear each other apart. Remy was the only one who held the can of whoop @ss big enough to hold it all together.

I stand corrected on Mr. ED Parker Jr.
I was given bad information it seems.

Gou, if I may ask what year(s) did you study with Spry? just courious
Shadow

In other words...Watch Modern Arnis. Now that Remy is gone they'll tear each other apart. Remy was the only one who held the can of whoop @ss big enough to hold it all together.


Isn't Dan Inosanto a practitioner of Arnis?

Hi Kirk,

Modern Arnis in this case refers to a particular style/system of Arnis.

The terminology in the Fillipino MA's is more than somewhat confusing as instructors shift between calling their system escrima, arnis, or kali. There is alot of history behind the different names and lots of different systems.

Dan Inosanto has studied several styles of escrima/arnis/kali but not Modern Arnis (or if he did, not enough to be considered a high mucky muck in the Modern A hierarchy).

Just trying to clarify,

Lamont

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
Gou, if I may ask what year(s) did you study with Spry? just courious

I didn't study with Steve Spry. I studied under a student of his, Mr. Jamie Seabrook. This was in 95/96.

Thanks Gou,
I was just wondering if we had been there in the same time period. I was there a few years earlyer. I sat on the promotion board for his first student to test for Black.
I was around just after he opened up on Beach Blvd. Befor the strip joint moved next door.I even remember when he was on LaPalma Blvd. befor he moved to Beach.but I didn't study with him at that time.
Any chance you ever met Neil Boneiface(sp)
sorry never could spell that name.

I'm in Canada. We have nothing but snow here. That and bears. But we have 2 kinds. Polar and every other kind.
:rolleyes:

There was one other promotion to 8th Degree Black Belt (Associate Master). This rank was awarded to the legendary Jay. T. Will in which my kenpo lineage is traced back to GM Parker through is student Master Ed. Hutchison. Master Will was Master Hutchison's Instructor and just 1 of the 10,000 or more students of Master Will! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

That's news to me. I'm having a hard time believeing it. Jay T. Will is a great Martial Artists but I thought his 8th and so on came from Tracy's.

From The Ed Parker Family Tree, which was last revised 1982, Jay “T” Will is listed under the Al & Jim Tracy Family Tree.

Sanxiawuyi
:asian:

But I have spoken to many people who say that Tree is so politically motivated that it's not worth much.

Well, some may say that Tree is politically motivated and not worth much, but this tree is exactly as published by Ed Parker in 1982.

Maybe, the only people who complain are the ones that claim they should have been on the tree (with no proof - or diplomas), and are not. Mr. Parker never changed the Tree.

:asian:

Or maybe there are those who are on the tree who were apologized to when they saw it before it was published. Those who might have been given the explanation that the politics were needed to keep the ship running smoothly.

The tree is the tree. Like it or not I suppose eh?

:shrug:

But if that Tree falls in the forest, and there is.... :rofl:

By the way Gou, I like that symbol you use for your name with the charter for dog. Did you design that yourself?

:asian:

Yeah. I designed that myself. There are only 7 people so far who are allowed to wear that symbol and 3 of them are deceased.

Originally posted by GouRonin
That's news to me. I'm having a hard time believeing it. Jay T. Will is a great Martial Artists but I thought his 8th and so on came from Tracy's. Gou you are right about Jay T. Will defecting to the Tracy camp. But he redefected back to the Parker Camp because Parker was his best friend. They were in the Coast Guard and became one in the same. So, it was not until Master Will switched back to the Parker Camp that he was promoted to 8th Degree! Before he died, Master Will promoted only 2 Black belts to the rank of 6th Degree. Master Dave Harris was one of those Black Belts. In the American Kenpo promotion ranking system; one would have to promote 2 ranks under themselves. Master Harris is head of the United Kenpo Karate Association/UKKA , in which Grandmaster Will founded and directed. For more info; you can contact the UKKA at 2805 E. Oakland Blvd. PMB#223 Ft. Lauderdale, Fl 33306 USA , Phone # 945-941-8436, Fax# 945-941-3194! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

I'll contact them when I get a chance. Is there a non-partisian party that can confirm this?

Thanx.

I also should add that whatever is the case Jay. T Will is a hell of a martial artist.

Originally posted by Chiduce
There was one other promotion to 8th Degree Black Belt (Associate Master). This rank was awarded to the legendary Jay. T. Will in which my kenpo lineage is traced back to GM Parker through is student Master Ed. Hutchison. Master Will was Master Hutchison's Instructor and just 1 of the 10,000 or more students of Master Will! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Alright I am really scared now!!!!

I remember Mr. Will, and all of the problems that he was associated with.

The truth is that Mr. Parker was at a test that Mr. Will was on the Board for as well, and another person decided that Mr. Will should be promoted and got Mr. Parker to sign the diploma that day. He did not promote him directly at that time. Mr. Will was from the Tracy Lineage, and then tried to convert to Mr. Parkers American Kenpo, and never did much as he got more wrapped up in the unfortunate actitivities.

Mr. Parkers main association with Mr. Will was that he appreciated Mr. Will's support of the International Karate Championships.

Am I correct in understanding that there were no degrees above 7th that were actually tested for?

Originally posted by Not Important


Alright I am really scared now!!!!

I remember Mr. Will, and all of the problems that he was associated with.

The truth is that Mr. Parker was at a test that Mr. Will was on the Board for as well, and another person decided that Mr. Will should be promoted and got Mr. Parker to sign the diploma that day. He did not promote him directly at that time. Mr. Will was from the Tracy Lineage, and then tried to convert to Mr. Parkers American Kenpo, and never did much as he got more wrapped up in the unfortunate actitivities.

Mr. Parkers main association with Mr. Will was that he appreciated Mr. Will's support of the International Karate Championships. Sir; I only have one question then. If you are right about Jay T. Will being of just the Tracy Lineage; then why does the Tracy Promotion List not include him even at the rank of Shodan, much less 7th Dan/Shichidan? This would lead one to assume that Jay T. Will was an Ed. Parker Black Belt. Now, my instructor was on their black belt list for promotion to Sandan in 04/90. Jay T. Will promotions are no where to be found because he was promoted by GM Parker! The reason why Jay T. Will is on the Tracy Lineage tree anyway is because the Tracy's were Master Will's Sempai at the Parker Camp. So, as Black Belt equivalents; the Tracy's were considered assistant instructors and took over classes when needed. This gave them the right to say that Master Will was a student of theirs also! They even helped GM Parker name his American Kenpo Techniques! The real information is in my last post which includes the address and phone number of Master Dave Harris of the UKKA or United Kenpo Karate Association in which Master Will Promoted Him to 6th Dan. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Originally posted by GouRonin
Am I correct in understanding that there were no degrees above 7th that were actually tested for? Go, Not Important is not exactly right here. If he would have known why the Tracy's claimed Jay T. Will in their lineage, then he would have known or said that the Tracy's were Master Will's Sempai in GM Parker's Dojo! My teacher, Master Ed. Hutchison is shown on the Tracy Promotion List, yet Master Will is not included on any of the Tracy's promotion lists, because they were Master Will's instructors at the Parker Dojo. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Sadly, he disagrees with Jay T. Will being promoted to 8th by Ed Parker.

I have invited him here to explain. Hopefully he will soon.

Mr. Conatser asked me to print this.

DCGoldendragon: I dont know where you received your information from but Jay T. Will definately did NOT get an 8th Degree from SGM Parker, for that matter Ed Hutchison left Mr. Parker many years and was never promoted by Ed Parker to a high rank of Black either.

His e-mail address is up there. Send him and e-mail if you choose to.

Hi Chiduce,

If you get a copy of J.T. Will's "Advanced Kenpo Karate" you will see that the techniques are right out of the Tracy Curriculum. There are obvious overlaps with the AK material, but the point is the naming structure is strictly Tracy. If my memory serves the book was published in 1983, well after Mr. Parker had made the shift in technique nomenclature.

Lamont

Originally posted by Chiduce
Go, Not Important is not exactly right here. If he would have known why the Tracy's claimed Jay T. Will in their lineage, then he would have known or said that the Tracy's were Master Will's Sempai in GM Parker's Dojo! My teacher, Master Ed. Hutchison is shown on the Tracy Promotion List, yet Master Will is not included on any of the Tracy's promotion lists, because they were Master Will's instructors at the Parker Dojo. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

O.K. I didn't want to go their, but if you all must know.

Having my last conversation with Al Tracy back in 97, and how his system of Kenpo has turned out so many greats, and he included the likes of : Jay T. Will, Keith Hackney (White Tiger, because of his UFC appearence), and a few others.

Not to pick on the Tracy's but they have been known to remove people from their lineage, like Mr. Wills counterpart Mr. Babcock, he is on the Mr. Parkers tree as well, under the Tracy's but has been missing on many (not all) of their lineage tree's. Mr. Babcock was removed, because he was wanted for Flashing, and Mr. Will was left out because of his cocaine convictions, and a whole list of other charges that would remind you of John Gotti's trial.

sorry a sad witness to the events..............

Originally posted by Not Important


O.K. I didn't want to go their, but if you all must know.

Having my last conversation with Al Tracy back in 97, and how his system of Kenpo has turned out so many greats, and he included the likes of : Jay T. Will, Keith Hackney (White Tiger, because of his UFC appearence), and a few others.

Not to pick on the Tracy's but they have been known to remove people from their lineage, like Mr. Wills counterpart Mr. Babcock, he is on the Mr. Parkers tree as well, under the Tracy's but has been missing on many (not all) of their lineage tree's. Mr. Babcock was removed, because he was wanted for Flashing, and Mr. Will was left out because of his cocaine convictions, and a whole list of other charges that would remind you of John Gotti's trial.

sorry a sad witness to the events.............. Sir; that would have some merit; but if you check out Tracy's explantation of James Ibrao and the Partker Days he does state that Jay T. Will was a Parker Black Belt. Even the rank of Shodan would trace him directly to the Parker Lineage. The reason why i say this is because Master Ed. Hutchison did not put the Tracy's in his Lineage Chart back to GM Parker. Though Al Tracy Promoted him to Sandan in April Of 1990. Yet, he did include Jay. T. Will and from Will directly to Parker. Not, Will, Tracy. and then Parker! Since Master Hutchison Founded the non-traditional no holds barred street combative of Dragon Kenpo; his technique names were right out of the Tracy lineage also! Defense Against A Choke From Behind, etc,. I personally do not think that Hutchison did not want to distance himself from the Tracy Lineage because of Master Will's cocaine convictions! I feel that it was just because that Jay T. Will was the proof , since he was a Parker Black Belt that he had a direct lineage to GM Parker. If you would please check out my previous post on this subject; the name, address, and phone number of Master Harris is posted. You can ask him why he was promoted by Master Will to 6th Dan and why he would put false information or mis-information about his direct Lineage to Grandmaster Ed. Parker and not through the Tracy Brothers! This is an excellent discussion on the lineage and rank of Parker and Tracy, as well as Parker/Tracy Black Belts. Also, thank you sir for your information into the behind the scene lives of these contoversial martial arts legends! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

To Whom It May Concern,
Why all the hullabaloo? Mr.Will was a talented martial artist, and kenpo senior. The mess and/or messes he got into later in life. Have no real bearing on who promoted who when, does it? As far as I can recollect from print etc.. Mr.Will was a legite blackbelt, and this was attested to by both Mr.Parker, and the Tracy camp. I don't understand what the original beef was regarding all this? :(

Originally posted by donald
To Whom It May Concern,
Why all the hullabaloo? Mr.Will was a talented martial artist, and kenpo senior. The mess and/or messes he got into later in life. Have no real bearing on who promoted who when, does it? As far as I can recollect from print etc.. Mr.Will was a legite blackbelt, and this was attested to by both Mr.Parker, and the Tracy camp. I don't understand what the original beef was regarding all this? :( Sir, we are not beefing about anything! I 'am in the direct lineage of both Master Will and the Tracy Brother Masters to Ed. Parker! Master Will taught my instructor, Master Hutchison whom in turn taught myself and others, etc,.! Thus, this information which was given on this forum is not a heated argument about who, is a bad martial artist and who is not! It is just an honorable discussion on the information which we all have received over a said period of time in our learning process. Why would i down my own lineage, for personal, martial or any other reasons? I'am happy to be openminded enough to absorb these previous posts without bias toward any. I 'am very happy to be a part of both lineages, because i can now trace my lineage to Yoshida also. I honor the Tracy's for their historic work on the martial arts and continued efforts to bring the truth to light concerning both lineages and the Yoshida Mitose Clan! I hope this gives you another view of the origin/s of modern kenpo! Sincerely; In Humility; Chiduce!

Originally posted by Chiduce
Sir, we are not beefing about anything! I 'am in the direct lineage of both Master Will and the Tracy Brother Masters to Ed. Parker! Master Will taught my instructor, Master Hutchison whom in turn taught myself and others, etc,.!

I suppose you ought to throw me in there too. I have a certificate from Ed Hutchinson's Dragon Kenpo AKA "Karate For Outlaws" not only certifying me as a black belt from them but a seperate one that certifies me as a teacher of their system.

I got it for buying 2 CD's with video of their techniques.

Ed Hutchinson also SOLD his rank and leadership of Dragon Kenpo via e-bay if I remember correctly. if I'd had any extra cash that would have made me the leader of the system.


Originally posted by Chiduce
I 'am very happy to be a part of both lineages, because i can now trace my lineage to Yoshida also. I honor the Tracy's for their historic work on the martial arts and continued efforts to bring the truth to light concerning both lineages and the Yoshida Mitose Clan! I hope this gives you another view of the origin/s of modern kenpo! Sincerely; In Humility; Chiduce!

The lineage of modern Kenpo is being re-written as we speak. To each their own I say. Don't ask me to believe it all though...
:shrug:

Originally posted by GouRonin


The lineage of modern Kenpo is being re-written as we speak. To each their own I say. Don't ask me to believe it all though...
:shrug: Go i agree, with enough money you probably would have bought the name of the system online! Yet the DKKA is no more and that in a sad way is good for the kenpo community today. Ed Hutchison is believed to have taught as many as 10,000 students also! Dragon Kenpo is now under a new age of development and rehabilitation. We are now headed by an 8th Degree Black Belt in Hutchison's Dragon Kenpo Karate and 10th Degree Black Belt in Hap Ki Mu Sul. The International Dragon Kenpo Association has members world wide and even re-certifies and verifies the old DKKA Certifications. There are now three types of memberships; Full Member; Associate Member; and Student Member! There are as many different styles of Hutchison Dragon Kenpo as it's current member schools and clubs! There also is video testing thru 4th Dan and after this ranking there is sweat time and contribution to the martial community and arts time before testing can occur beyond 4th Dan! Dragon Kenpo today is in collaboration with the World Sokeship Council, Various Independant Martial Arts Associations And Federations; And New System Certification Associations! The IDKA members range from the average practitioner to Martial Arts Hall Of Fame Inductees. We are growing in the positive! Yes, the lineage of modern kenpo is being rewritten and so is the case with the Self Defense Science Of Dragon Kenpo Karate! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Chiduce,
What is Dragon Kenpo? I remember the ads in Blackbelt, but never really checked it out. If I understand G.R.'s post regarding this correctly, the system, or Association was a sham? Your post sounded like you agreed with that assesment in past tence, but now they have overhauled their Association practices? Who is this person/persons who has taken over from Mr.Hutchison? Do they trace their kenpo to the Parker/Tracy tree? Just asking out of curiosity, no agenda okay!?
Salute in Christ,
Donald :D

Originally posted by donald
Chiduce,
What is Dragon Kenpo? I remember the ads in Blackbelt, but never really checked it out. If I understand G.R.'s post regarding this correctly, the system, or Association was a sham? Your post sounded like you agreed with that assesment in past tence, but now they have overhauled their Association practices? Who is this person/persons who has taken over from Mr.Hutchison? Do they trace their kenpo to the Parker/Tracy tree? Just asking out of curiosity, no agenda okay!?
Salute in Christ,
Donald :D Sir, Dragon Kenpo was never a sham. Master Ed. Hutchison was indeed taught by Master Jay.T. Will and Founded the Dragon Kenpo Karate System. The head of the system now is Grandmaster Rodney Lacey! Master Lacey was the only DK practitioner to attain the rank of 8th Dan/Hachidan to my knowledge, which was conferred by Master Ed. Hutchison! Master Lacey is also a 10th Dan/Judan in the martial art of Hap Ki Mu Sul in which he founded. Master Lacey's Hap Ki Mu Sul Certified By The World Sokeship Council and he is recognized by this same council as an 8th Dan Dragon Kenpo Karate! Master Hutchison taught several Sokes and 10th Dans the Dragon Kenpo System. One of which is Soke Giovani Acevedo of the renowned International Goju Kempo Federation University Of Martial Arts. Master Lacey is the Director Of Operations Of The International Dragon Kenpo Association! I'am also on the Board Of Directors of the IDKA and hold the position of Secretary. Master Lacey is the Headmaster Of the Defensive Arts Academy, the Url is http://www.geocities.com/defensive_arts_academy and my Url/s are http://www.chiduce.swsites.net and http://maxpages.com/butokutsururyu The other pages can be foud on either of these sites. Take a look at Dragon Kenpo's Different looks on my favorite links page! The sham thing was never true, yet Master Hutchison had some questionable practices in regard to awarding rank! To tell you the truth; some how by Gods Grace And Mercy; it all worked out just fine! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Originally posted by donald
Chiduce,
What is Dragon Kenpo? I remember the ads in Blackbelt, but never really checked it out. If I understand G.R.'s post regarding this correctly, the system, or Association was a sham? Your post sounded like you agreed with that assesment in past tence, but now they have overhauled their Association practices? Who is this person/persons who has taken over from Mr.Hutchison? Do they trace their kenpo to the Parker/Tracy tree? Just asking out of curiosity, no agenda okay!?
Salute in Christ,
Donald :D Yes sir, our lineage has been verified through Grandmaster Jay. T. Will to Grand Master Ed. Parker And Grandmasters, Tracy Brothers. The lineage was confirmed by Grandmaster Al Tracy. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Originally posted by donald
Chiduce,
What is Dragon Kenpo? I remember the ads in Blackbelt, but never really checked it out. If I understand G.R.'s post regarding this correctly, the system, or Association was a sham? Your post sounded like you agreed with that assesment in past tence, but now they have overhauled their Association practices? Who is this person/persons who has taken over from Mr.Hutchison? Do they trace their kenpo to the Parker/Tracy tree? Just asking out of curiosity, no agenda okay!?
Salute in Christ,
Donald :D Donald, if you would also go to the Yahoo Dragon Kenpo Forum; you will find that a New DK Curriculum will be started at Liberty University or Jerry Faldwell's School very soon! One of the P.E. Professors is an Ed. Hutchison Black Belt and his website is posted on the forum! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

The new Dragon Kenpo has more respectability than the previous association.

Originally posted by GouRonin
The new Dragon Kenpo has more respectability than the previous association. Yes, sir it does and we had to fight like heck for it! Yet, it was well worth the fight! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Curious: What is the current rank of Ed Hutchinson? I thought he was a grandmaster, but I don't want to assume that blindly. I ask this because I found it out that he was promoted to 3rd in 1990 and is now (or was a few years ago) so highly ranked. This is not a slam of EH, or his skills or his students, and I am sincerely interested in an answer, so please try not to assume that I mean any offense to Dragon Kenpo people.

I wrote: >>I found it out that he was promoted to 3rd in 1990 and is now (or was a few years ago) so highly ranked.

That should have read, "I found it ODD that he was promoted..."

Sorry for the typo

Originally posted by warriorsage
I wrote: >>I found it out that he was promoted to 3rd in 1990 and is now (or was a few years ago) so highly ranked.

That should have read, "I found it ODD that he was promoted..."

Sorry for the typo Sir, when you or anyone found a new martial arts system and apply for your system to be certified. There is a promotion when your system is accepted by the certifying body to 4th Dan /Yondan/Yodan. After this phase is complete, you can apply for a lineage trace or further certification by a higher governing body than the previous one, At least this is the way that most new system founders started. Next is the higher body verification of your current rank in your new system and the lineage trace. If the lineage trace is good then the search for verification of at least shodan ranking in another system done! If you cannot verify the last condition, the higher governing will assign you to the new Master training program; in which you will be assigned to one of the governing body Grang Masters for instruction. Upon completion of the Grandmaster's program you will have met that last requirement! You will then be awarded the title of Shodai Soke and rank of 10th Degree. Now this is the catch; once your new system has been certified by the 1st governing body and you are awarded the rank of 4th Dan; you can promote in your system as high as you see fit. Thus, even though you are ranked as at 4th Dan and are the founder of a new certified martial art system; as long as you do not proclaim yourself the title of Soke, then you can promote in your new system as high as you wish. this is because you can still get your system certified by a higher governing body! Now there is also middle ground certification by the higher body or another certifying body which is not as high as the soke council but is recognized by the council as an official certifying body! There is one requirement which i left out and that is the higher body will require you to be at least 5th Dan. so, the 4th Dan is considered a 5th Dan equivalent for the system new system creation and can send in to the middle certifying body a video tape of the new system along with other set requirements and be promoted 1 rank higher to 5th Dan for this middle higher certification! Still as long as the founder does not self proclaim him/herself as a Soke they can promote within their system as high as they want. So, the rank of 4th Dan and 5th Dan Master or Headmaster Of The New Ryu and/or Ryuha exists! This, is actually how the certification works! I'am also founder of a new martial street combative called Butokutsuru Ryu Kenpojutsu or translated as the ( Virtuous Crane's Law Of The Dragons' Fist ) the Dragon here represents only all wisdom within the Crane's Law Of The Fist, as following the Way of Butoku, and Busan. Anyway most new system founders only like to be addressed as either 4th or 5th Dan and not Master; which is also my case! I hope this sheds some light on your question! Remember, this certification process applies to all new system founders regardless of style with one exception; the New Inheritor Of A System after the original Headmaster has either stepped down or dies! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

But really it only applied if you decide to go by some council's will and their determinations.

Personally, I think Ed Parker did it best. He went out and proved what he was doing and let others choose to follow.

Not to demean what you are doing, it's just not for me to follow.

Originally posted by GouRonin
But really it only applied if you decide to go by some council's will and their determinations.

Personally, I think Ed Parker did it best. He went out and proved what he was doing and let others choose to follow.

Not to demean what you are doing, it's just not for me to follow. You are not demeaning anything to me or my organization. We are world wide now and continuing to grow and contribute to the martial arts community! As with any good thing the basis is on attraction rather than promotion! I do not make the rules for the martial arts community; yet as a practitioner i 'am inclined to follow those rules which would benefit the community at large! If it was not for GM Ed. Parker, which i never had the pleasure of meeting, i would not be continuing my martial arts studies to this day! It, took some 3,4,5, and some even 10 years to obtain the 1st Degree Black Belt, and others even longer! I'am proud to say even longer myself. So, i know when, and how to study the martial way which works for myself and those like me to benefit the community as a whole! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Chudice, I posted earlier on that Jay T. Will NEVER was promoted to 8th degree by Ed Parker personally. and received no response. I would like to see the certificate and verify the number on it to validate your claim.

It is a well known fact that Mr. Parker didn't promote "anyone" to higher than 7th Degree. (Elvis, Cerio, and Griffith were crossover or honorary issues).

Many of these men are well known Seniors in Kenpo i.e., Dave Hebler, Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, Huk Planas, Joe Palanzo, Bob White, Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Ron Chap'el, Chuck Sullivan, John Conway (D), and Arturo Petit (D). These were the legitimate promotions under Ed Parker directly......... do any of these remember Jay T. Will being added to the list....... no.

I find it interesting that 11 years later some try to rewrite history and attempt to incorrectly insert individuals into the linage.

Did Mr. Parker consider himself a 10th degree black belt or did he only take the title SGM ("above and beyond rank" as they say)?

What was his rank in kosho-ryu?

I only had the privledge of speaking with Mr. Parker two times but from my very short conversations (only a few minutes each) I had the impression that he accepted the title rather than thinking of himslef as 10th.
My impression was of a man who was very happy with his "children "those being the students, and with the way his art had grown. I did not sence someone who goes around saying " i'm a 10th degree" rather a man who gave of himslef to better the art he loved.
Again this is only my opion based on two very short meetings. He was kind enough to speak with me when he had never seen me befor and to exchange words of encouragement I shall always remember those meetings and the man.
Shadow

I was talking to a kenpo instructor about rank one day, and was told the following.
Mr Parker was known as GM holding 10th degree and there would be no other 10th as that was his title and rank as founder of the system.
When he died, others in the system wanted to be promoted to 10th but couldn't because he held the rank. Thus SGM was created to elevate Mr. Parker above all others and yet let them be 10th degrees now. Don't know if it's true or not but it kind of makes sense. Till they made him SGM no high ranking black belt wanted to be a 10th.

:asian:

"Did Mr. Parker consider himself a 10th degree black belt or did he only take the title SGM ("above and beyond rank" as they say)?"

The Shadowchaser pretty much hit it. Mr. Parker never claimed any titles but they are essential when dealing with a large International group. He is the one and only Founder of American Kenpo...... his System, all others are spin offs or one of many of the "Ed Parker Kenpo Systems" we have today.

"What was his rank in kosho-ryu?" Ed Parker had no rank in Kosho-ryu - that is not his Art and had nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
"What was his rank in kosho-ryu?" Ed Parker had no rank in Kosho-ryu - that is not his Art and had nothing to do with it.

I must have misunderstood--wasn't this one of the arts he put into his kenpo?

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Chudice, I posted earlier on that Jay T. Will NEVER was promoted to 8th degree by Ed Parker personally. and received no response. I would like to see the certificate and verify the number on it to validate your claim.

It is a well known fact that Mr. Parker didn't promote "anyone" to higher than 7th Degree. (Elvis, Cerio, and Griffith were crossover or honorary issues).

Many of these men are well known Seniors in Kenpo i.e., Dave Hebler, Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, Huk Planas, Joe Palanzo, Bob White, Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Ron Chap'el, Chuck Sullivan, John Conway (D), and Arturo Petit (D). These were the legitimate promotions under Ed Parker directly......... do any of these remember Jay T. Will being added to the list....... no.

I find it interesting that 11 years later some try to rewrite history and attempt to incorrectly insert individuals into the linage. Go to the UKKA Website where Master Dave Harris Dave Harris has become the Director of Grand Master Will's Organization: This is where i got my information from and Master Harris is supposed to be one of only 2 Black Belts promoted to Rokudan. The # is (954) 941-8436 or fax (954) 941-3194. You can also inquire to his family about his 8th Dan certificate. There was also another post on this forum 10th Degree about GM Parker and Master Will being on the same testing board, and another master on the same board talking with GM Parker about promoting Master Will to 8th Degree. That day Master Parker is said to have signed the 8th Dan Certificate at the testing for another black belt. This information came from the historian! I will give you his name in the next post! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Chudice, I posted earlier on that Jay T. Will NEVER was promoted to 8th degree by Ed Parker personally. and received no response. I would like to see the certificate and verify the number on it to validate your claim.

It is a well known fact that Mr. Parker didn't promote "anyone" to higher than 7th Degree. (Elvis, Cerio, and Griffith were crossover or honorary issues).

Many of these men are well known Seniors in Kenpo i.e., Dave Hebler, Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, Huk Planas, Joe Palanzo, Bob White, Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Ron Chap'el, Chuck Sullivan, John Conway (D), and Arturo Petit (D). These were the legitimate promotions under Ed Parker directly......... do any of these remember Jay T. Will being added to the list....... no.

I find it interesting that 11 years later some try to rewrite history and attempt to incorrectly insert individuals into the linage. The historian is Sanxiawuyi; is post may have been on another subject though, yet this is what he said! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Anyone can post whatever they want....... I was there. Again, if you have an IKKA certificate and certificate number to verify your claims then show me.

Mr. Parker sat on a number of boards for promotions as a guest. That does not mean that he was a personal student...... if he was then he would have been promoted directly by Ed Parker himself and given an IKKA certificate (which I have not seen produced as of yet). If he did in fact sit on a board where the group decided to promote Jay to 8th then fine, but he was not a direct student above all those that were proven and known personal students (not secret) as I listed prior. If he were a direct student of Ed Parker we would have been glad to add him to the list of Seniors, as it were he was NOT. If Ed Parker would have promoted him to 8th EVERYONE would know of it not just your group. Need I say more.

What "family" are you suggesting I ask........... Jay T. Wills? If that is the case that would prove nothing.

I'm sorry to press this issue but I just do not like the propagation of false information. There are too many of us out there still alive that know the truth and we must stand or rumor will soon become fact.

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Chudice, I posted earlier on that Jay T. Will NEVER was promoted to 8th degree by Ed Parker personally. and received no response. I would like to see the certificate and verify the number on it to validate your claim.

It is a well known fact that Mr. Parker didn't promote "anyone" to higher than 7th Degree. (Elvis, Cerio, and Griffith were crossover or honorary issues).

Many of these men are well known Seniors in Kenpo i.e., Dave Hebler, Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, Huk Planas, Joe Palanzo, Bob White, Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Ron Chap'el, Chuck Sullivan, John Conway (D), and Arturo Petit (D). These were the legitimate promotions under Ed Parker directly......... do any of these remember Jay T. Will being added to the list....... no.

I find it interesting that 11 years later some try to rewrite history and attempt to incorrectly insert individuals into the linage. Sir, first lets get this straight; i'am learning new things everday! To my understanding the head of Master Will's UKKA at the present was telling the truth about his master! I have already made martial art's history myself and did not want too. Yet that is another subject! I'am trying to become a martial historian in time and make my own contribution. I definitely, would not like to rewrite someone else's history! I have enough trouble at the present having to promote my own system and have as it documented history! I became interested in the Martial Way because of just seeing people like GM Parker in a balancing side kick. I use the AK equation formula and 3 phase conceptuality in the other system which i'am teaching. So, i'am not trying to do anthing but understand the truth about Master Will. Personally, i think that was a shot below the belt! Yet, the street has no rules, neither do i! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Well if you intend to be a true and correct historian in Kenpo then you need to research the facts and not just rely on one site.

I have nothing against Jay T. Will or his organization or heirs. I do have a problem when people do not tell it like it was. A fine martial artist (particulairly fighter) he was....... however, when you do time for selling cocaine out of your studio, that hurts all the martial arts and in particular the person we are talking about, so to glorify him now years later is not right. Yes, he was a fine competitor but lets not get carried away with whom he studied and give ranks out to him above and beyond Ed Parkers most personal and highest ranking students. Thats it. The truth is the truth.

What "Martial Arts history" did you make anyway, just curious.

Not trying to be a shot below the belt just the truth on a topic you brought up pal.:D :asian:

I've known Dennis Conatser for a long time, and he WAS a personal student of Mr. Parker's. I am currently a student of Frank Trejo (Whom ran Mr. Parker's Pasadena Studio for approx. 15 years before Mr. Parker Passed, and teaches there to THIS day).

According to both of these men (as well as many of the other 9th and 10th degree black belt's that I know in todays kenpo world) nobody earned a rank above 7th degree black from Ed Parker. This my friend is the cold hard truth. If you have been told otherwise... you have been lied to.

Originally posted by WilliamTLear
I've known Dennis Conatser for a long time, and he WAS a personal student of Mr. Parker's. I am currently a student of Frank Trejo (Whom ran Mr. Parker's Pasadena Studio for approx. 15 years before Mr. Parker Passed, and teaches there to THIS day).

According to both of these men (as well as many of the other 9th and 10th degree black belt's that I know in todays kenpo world) nobody earned a rank above 7th degree black from Ed Parker. This my friend is the cold hard truth. If you have been told otherwise... you have been lied to. Sir, I still will not believe what you and other's are saying until i'am satisfied with my own search about Master Will's rank! I know there is a lot of misinformation out there! Though, i do have a question? Why would Sanxiawuyi know about the testing board and GM Parker signing Master Will's 8th Dan certificate? What you are saying is that there is absolutely no truth to this historian's statement? Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

...and correct me if I am wrong...

That Jay T. Will may have a signed 8th certificate from some system that might have Mr. Parker's signature on it but Mr. Parker did not grade Mr. Will to 8th. He was merely there to watch someone else grade him and sifned as a witness perhaps?

Arnisador,
In an attempt to answer your question strictly from a historical perspective. Although you could say that the roots of Parker System Kenpo go back to the Kosho-Ryu. It can only be said because of the Mitose, Chow, Parker connections. Mr.Parker was
( if I have my facts straight) given some type of promotion by Mr.Mitose, but Mr.Parker never to my recollection acknowledged it. By that I mean, never promoted it, never used it in any fashion. Simply because he was never a STUDENT of Mr.Mitose's, and the kenpo Mr.Parker taught was not what Mr.Mitose demonstrated, or propigated. Therefore Mr.Parker did not lay claim to ANY ranking that originated from the Kosho-Ryu. I believe I have laid out the basic facts. Can/do any of the P.S.K. seniors on this forum agree/disagree with what I've posted? I would be very interested to hear...
Salute in Christ,
Donald:D

Yes Donald I agree with most of what you said, the part of Mitose promoting Ed Parker tho I have to disagree with. All his early promotions came from Chow. He only claimed Chow as his early instructor in Kenpo after the intro from his brother Frank.

He did not utilize or like any of Mitose's system. He was not comfortable with his attitude or conviction. He always distanced himself from this person.

His academic achievement and personal drive led to the creation of his own unique American Kenpo system, which was way ahead of its time back then. Today many studios are moving to the type of movement and logic we have used for many years now.

yes, Gou......

You are correct in your thoughts...... (why can't others deduct this)?


As to Chiduce,

I don't care if you believe what I'm saying or not. I know its the truth. I do respect your position ~ do your research and you will find out that what I say is correct. No Mallace intended, just facts.

I also am not challenging/validating Sanxiawuyi's claim either..... I was not there..... but if in fact the claim is true ..... that does not constitute people claiming Ed Parker PROMOTED him...... he meerely witnessed the promotion. Once again..... produce an official IKKA Numbered Certificate with Jay T. Will as an 8th.:asian:

Originally posted by Chiduce
The historian is Sanxiawuyi; is post may have been on another subject though, yet this is what he said! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I have never posted about any of these things, ecept for saying Jat T Will is under the Tracy Tree.

What claims do you think I made?

Sanxiawuyi
:confused:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
yes, Gou......You are correct in your thoughts...... (why can't others deduct this?)

Because I'm a frickin' genious. I'm brilliant. I'm smart. Learned. Full of wisdom. Deep in thought. Shall I go on?
:cuss: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
His academic achievement and personal drive led to the creation of his own unique American Kenpo system

Thanks donald and Goldendragon7. Can someone give a non-kenpo person a brief list of what art(s) went into Mr. Parker's kenpo?

Parker added as he went along. If he liked it it went in. The list would be very long. Plus he used his students like an experiment to help him add.

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
I also am not challenging/validating Sanxiawuyi's claim either..... I was not there..... but if in fact the claim is true ..... that does not constitute people claiming Ed Parker PROMOTED him...... he meerely witnessed the promotion.

Again,.... what claims did I Supposedly make?

Sanxiawuyi
:confused:

Originally posted by Chiduce
Sir, I still will not believe what you and other's are saying until i'am satisfied with my own search about Master Will's rank! I know there is a lot of misinformation out there! Though, i do have a question? Why would Sanxiawuyi know about the testing board and GM Parker signing Master Will's 8th Dan certificate? What you are saying is that there is absolutely no truth to this historian's statement? Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!


So sorry but I also have to second that of WilliamTLear
As I heard and inquire for another student of EP that EP never promoted anybody above the Seventh Degree.
With all the respect.

M

Originally posted by Chiduce



Though, i do have a question? Why would Sanxiawuyi know about the testing board and GM Parker signing Master Will's 8th Dan certificate?

What are you talking about!! I have know idea what you guys are talking about. I didn't say any of these things!

Did I miss something!!??

Sanxiawuyi
:soapbox:

What are you talking about!! I have know idea what you guys are talking about. I didn't say any of these things!

They think that you have seen a certificate of Jay T Wills with Mr Parker's signature on it promoting him to 8th.

my 2 cents: Mr Will's name shows up on the Tracy's tree at 8th so I would be led to believe that he was promoted by the Tracy's not Mr Parker.
In my talks with other kenpo black belts they too believe that Mr Parker never promoted anyone past 7th, except for Elvis.

Interesting discussion so far, but some seem to be taking it personal now. :asian:

LOL......... well I'll be.........

I guess we have revealed the first one of Chiduce's claims to be totally FALSE! :rolleyes:
lol




As to answer Arnisador...... There were no "Arts" that Ed Parker put into American Kenpo other than his early training with Professor Chow and HUGE amounts of LOGIC.

That's why it is uniquely his system, not a combination of others. Of course he had much input from many different individuals but no specific Systems.

Originally posted by GouRonin
...and correct me if I am wrong...

That Jay T. Will may have a signed 8th certificate from some system that might have Mr. Parker's signature on it but Mr. Parker did not grade Mr. Will to 8th. He was merely there to watch someone else grade him and sifned as a witness perhaps? What i read on this forum was that GM Parker and Jay T. Will were on the same testing board ( along with others) testing someone else! That is when one of the other testers which knew GM Parker arked him to promote Master Will to 8th Dan also that day. Parker agreed and signed Will's certificate at that testing along with promoting the original practitioner that day! Now personally, it sounded too crazy not to have some merit! Though, there is still the question of who was being promoted originally and who was the board member that talked to GM Parker about promoting Master Will to 8th Dan. This post was made by Sanxiawuyi. Since he is a martial historian i assumed he has a reliable source from which this information was extracted! Though, it could be just speculation. Of course i would think that he would not have posted this statement without some type of reliability! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Originally posted by Chiduce
This post was made by Sanxiawuyi. Since he is a martial historian i assumed he has a reliable source from which this information was extracted! Though, it could be just speculation. Of course i would think that he would not have posted this statement without some type of reliability! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

SHOW ME WHERE I POSTED THIS!!
I have no idea what you are talking about, I never made a post like that, and further more I know nothing about Jay “T” Will.

My original post was Mr. Parker promoted no one to 10th.

Your have your “sources” wrong.

With respect,
Sanxiawuyi
:angry:

Originally posted by Sanxiawuyi


SHOW ME WHERE I POSTED THIS!!
I have no idea what you are talking about, I never made a post like that, and further more I know nothing about Jay “T” Will.

My original post was Mr. Parker promoted no one to 10th.

Your have your “sources” wrong.

With respect,
Sanxiawuyi
:angry: Yeah, i can see that now! I admit that i'am wrong. I have been searching the other posts myself and i made a mistake! It was posted though by someone, not unless i'am getting wall eyed vision. So, i humbly apologize for my mistake of including you forum name in my post! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Originally posted by Chiduce
Yeah, i can see that now! I admit that i'am wrong. I have been searching the other posts myself and i made a mistake! It was posted though by someone, not unless i'am getting wall eyed vision. So, i humbly apologize for my mistake of including you forum name in my post! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Thank you for the apology. I don’t know a great deal about the more recent history of Westernized Kenpo, most of my research has been with earlier history, and my academic background is in East Asian history and philosophy, predominantly methodologies, and theories necessary for the study of the history of China, and Japan.

Sanxiawuyi
:asian:

Yes, thank you both for letting the truth shine forth. :D No malice towards anyone just please research the facts first.

It is very easy to mix up facts :confused: so be sure to have your ducks in a row when you make a statement otherwise someone may ask you to back up what you post.

Chiduce I have been involved in the Martial Arts way to long to tarnish my reputation. I would not lead you down a path of lies. That you can take to the bank. I however, have been wrong at times as well and it takes a credible man to admit his mistake. Kudos to you!:asian:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Yes, thank you both for letting the truth shine forth. :D No malice towards anyone just please research the facts first.

It is very easy to mix up facts :confused: so be sure to have your ducks in a row when you make a statement otherwise someone may ask you to back up what you post.

Chiduce I have been involved in the Martial Arts way to long to tarnish my reputation. I would not lead you down a path of lies. That you can take to the bank. I however, have been wrong at times as well and it takes a credible man to admit his mistake. Kudos to you!:asian: Thank you very much sir! Sincerely, In Humility; chiduce!

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
[B]Yes Donald I agree with most of what you said, the part of Mitose promoting Ed Parker tho I have to disagree with. All his early promotions came from Chow. He only claimed Chow as his early instructor in Kenpo after the intro from his brother Frank.

Sir,
This phantom promotion that I refer to. Was'nt really a promotion, as in testing, board of peers, etc.. My understanding is that Mr.Mitose attempted to "bestow" a ranking on Mr.Parker. This was supposed to have happened after Mr.Parker had established himself in California. I can't recall the source of this info. Except to say, I know I did'nt just pull this out of the air. It may of been an interview through a magazine? I am sure that there has to be a P.K.S. senior out in cyberspace, who knows of what I refer? At least I hope I have'nt gone roun tha bend!!!!
Salute in Christ,
Donald :asian:

Well Donald, I would agree with the idea that Mitose may have "attempted" to give Ed Parker some sort of promotion.... but Ed Parker never accecpted any such document.

In case anyone is still curious, Jay T Will was promoted to 8th Dan on 05/08/90 by Al Tracy. His certificate number was -B-802-

Thank You, Turner

:asian:

In rereading the thread I realize that someone already said that, sorry for being redundant.

I love the signature block, GD7

:asian:

When I grow up I want to be a 10th degree, but only if I can have tons of people saying they love what I am doing to my face and stabbing me in the back later. Yep that sounds like fun to me.

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Thank You, Turner

:asian: I also chatted with Grandmaster Al Tracy via e-mail and Master Will's 8th Degree was not conferred in American Kenpo; but Traditional Kenpo! I can send you the e-mail if you like! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

That's what I have been saying all along.

:asian:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

That's what I have been saying all along.

:asian: Yes, and i see that now! The mis-information that i was receiving at the time really screwed my lineage understanding up! Since i trainded in matsumura orthodox shorin-ryu karade-do. We had our own kenpo system. This is what intrigued me to seek out the true lineage of my kenpo system. I give out kenpo lineage charts to my students to give them some understanding of where there system starts and some idea where they are going as they progress to the higher ranks. This information if it is correct, can be passed on the their students. So Master Conaster; i want to thank you for setting the record straight for my lineage information! My charts will be changed so that there will not be a direct line from Master Will to Parker for our system. it will go down from Grandmaster Parker to Al and Jim Tracy to Jay T. Will ( with his line looping to Parker) to Master Hutchison (with his line looping to Will And Tracy) to myself to my students! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

That's what I have been saying all along.

:asian: Yes, and i see that now! The mis-information that i was receiving at the time really screwed my lineage understanding up! Since i trained in matsumura orthodox shorin-ryu karade-do. We had our own kenpo system. This is what intrigued me to seek out the true lineage of my kenpo system. I give out kenpo lineage charts to my students to give them some understanding of where there system starts and some idea where they are going as they progress to the higher ranks. This information if it is correct, can be passed on the their students. So Master Conaster; i want to thank you for setting the record straight for my lineage information! My charts will be changed so that there will not be a direct line from Master Will to Parker for our system. it will go down from Grandmaster Parker to Al and Jim Tracy to Jay T. Will ( with his line looping to Parker) to Master Hutchison (with his line looping to Will And Tracy) to myself to my students! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

Ohhhh Master Conatser is all knowing!! Hey Mr. C did you notice I got my yellow belt, man and I didnt even get punched!!

I'll give you the kiss of the Dragon next lesson.:asian: :rofl:

GD7, do you still do the prmotion kick?
The kenpo school I'm at does, and I like the idea and meaning.

:asian:

The rite of passage is alive and well in the IKKO always has been, probably always will.

:asian:

Did Mr. Parker really kick that hard?

:asian:

Originally posted by Klondike93
Did Mr. Parker really kick that hard?
:asian:

What do you mean?

If you mean for promotions........... NO, the purpose is not to hurt or injure anyone. Just an initiation. He did land a few good ones now and then especially to some of his tougher guys.... but not ever did I witness any abuse or anything of the sort, nor the full extent of what he COULD DO. (thank God)!! Nobody would be around to tell about it!! lol

:asian:

I did mean the promotion, when you see some of the pictures of him promoting, doing the kick, the person is usually bent in half like he's really laying that front kick in there.

:asian:

Mr. C, do you do kicks for every belt level? My instructor does
punches for purple and below.

Sometimes I kick others I punch or heel palm. Just depends on the student and the circumstances and how I feel.

:asian:

again it is a ritual and not a display of power from the Testor to the testee....... (no pun intended)

Has everyone been explained the promotional ritual?

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Sometimes I kick others I punch or heel palm. Just depends on the student and the circumstances and how I feel.

:asian:

again it is a ritual and not a display of power from the Testor to the testee....... (no pun intended)

Has everyone been explained the promotional ritual?

is it not to signify birth into a new level, and in every birth there is a little pain.

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Sometimes I kick others I punch or heel palm. Just depends on the student and the circumstances and how I feel.

:asian:

again it is a ritual and not a display of power from the Testor to the testee....... (no pun intended)

Has everyone been explained the promotional ritual?

No, I don't know anything about it :(
But I'm all ears (so to speak).

Keep in mind this original process may have been changed by different organizations today.. here is the original format tho.....

FORMAL PROCEDURES TO BE OBSERVED DURING EXAMINATION FOR PROMOTION (Observers are not permitted to witness the Formal Test)

During the testing period for promotion, the following formalities should be adhered to:

LINE UP The students (or student) being tested will be
commanded to line up at the designated area.

TRAINING HORSE -
They will then be commanded to execute a Training Horse Stance (with their fists clenched and cocked on their hips).

They are to remain in this stance until the Board of Examiners
(Testing Committee) give them further instructions.

MEDITATE Meditation will be the next command.

ATTENTION Attention will be the next command.

SALUTATION The group will then be commanded to execute the Full Salutation.

BOW The command to bow will then be given.

SIT DOWN Students being tested will then be commanded to sit down on the mat, cross their legs, sit erect, and keep their
hands on their laps. (The Board of Examiners has the option to
request that students stand, reposition themselves, or make any
other adjustments dictated by environment, or by the nature of
the Test.)

FRONT & CENTER When student names are called, they are to
come to the front, center themselves before the Board, stand at
Attention (with their hands alongside their legs), and focus their
attention on the Chief Examiner conducting the test.

RESPONSE Students will then listen to what is asked of them and
respond, "Yes Sir", in acknowledgement of each and every
request.

COMMENCE Depending upon the request, the student will
commence by demonstrating his skill and knowledge according to
the best of his ability.

SALUTE After completing everything that is requested, the
student will then salute the Board of Examiners and await the
command to return.

RETURN The student will then be commanded to return to his/her
position and await further instructions. (Encourage students to
take prompt action when returning to their former position.)

LINE UP At the conclusion of the testing period, all students will
be commanded to line up in a straight line in front of the Board
of Examiners. They will then be commanded to remain in a
Training Horse Stance (with their fists clenched and cocked on
their hips.) They are to remain fast and await further
instructions.

DECISION - At this point the Board of Examiners must make whatever decisions are necessary to establish who passed or
failed their test. It is suggested that the Board of Examiners seek
an isolated area, or room, where no one (other than the
Examiners) can hear the discussions and decisions that are being
made. Once the decisions are made, with the majority rule taking
precedent, return to the testing area to inform the students as to
who passed or failed.

NOTE: Students being tested are to be warned that any talking,
slouching, or unapproved adjournment during the testing period
could result in disqualification.

FURTHER NOTE: Realizing that testing procedures often require
tailoring, permission is hereby granted if such action is
necessary to improve the situation.

REMINDER: The above procedures are for FORMAL TESTS and
observers are not permitted to witness such tests. Instructors,
however, may wish to conduct INFORMAL TESTS of their own. In
this case observers may be permitted if so elected.

FORMAL PROCEDURES TO BE OBSERVED DURING PROMOTION

RETURN - The Board of Examiners, upon their return, will now
become the Presentation Committee.

ATTENTION At this point it is the duty of the Chief Examiner to
call the students to Attention. Upon his command, the students
will snap to Attention and face the Presentation Committee as
they re- enter the room.

COMMENTS General and specific comments will then be
addressed to individuals or the group as a whole. Students will
then be told whether they passed or failed.

FRONT & CENTER Those individuals who did not pass the test
will be asked to reassemble to the rear. Those who passed will
be asked to move to the front and center themselves before the
Presentation Committee. If the number of students who passed
are of concern, it is recommended that two or more lines be
formed to accommodate the group. If there is only enough to
form one line, have the students remain where they are
presently standing.

KNEEL The students will receive the command to kneel before
the Presentation Committee.

NEW BELT The new belt will then be placed on the floor in front
of, and parallel to the student.

OLD BELT The students will then be commanded to take off their
old belt. They are to neatly fold their old belt and place it
vertically and to the left of their new belt so that when the left
end of the new belt touches the bottom end of the old belt, they
form the letter "L". They will then be instructed as to the
significance of this belt formation.

THE TOUCH From the students' kneeling position, command
them to bow, and touch their foreheads to the top and flat side
of their new belt. Have them remain in this position for at least
six (6) seconds before returning to their kneeling, upright
position. They will again be instructed as to the significance of
this formality.

NEW BELT The students who have passed will then put on their
new belt and will adjust the knot on their belt so that it is
positioned properly.

RISE Upon the command rise, the students will then snap into an
Attention Stance.

TRAINING HORSE - When commanded, the students will then drop
into a Training Horse with their fists clenched and on their hips.

INITIATION The Chief Examiner and the Instructor(s) will then
initiate the students, as well as explain the reason for the
initiation.

ATTENTION The passing group will then be commanded to come
to Attention.

LINE UP The entire group (whether they passed or failed) will
then be commanded to again return back to their original
formation when first tested and line up in an orderly manner.

COMMENTS Final comments will be addressed to the students.

COMMITTEE - At this point the Presentation Committee will also stand and form a line facing the students. The highest ranking
belt will stand to the extreme left (Committee's point of view) and
all others (highest to the least) to his right.

SALUTE & HANDSHAKE All students will then be commanded to
execute a Humble Salute and shake the hand of each Committee
member, starting from the highest to the least ranking black belt.
(From the student's point of view, they will start at the right and
work their way to the left.) The first student to start this
procedure will be the student with the highest rank. All others
are to follow in the order of their succeeding rank. Congratulations are in order if committeemen wish to do so.

JOIN - When the Senior Student salutes and shakes the hand of
the last Presentation member, he and the remaining students
are to join the line and in turn salute, and shake the hands of
each of the remaining students. Students may also congratulate
each other if the wish to do so.

MEDITATE The entire group will then be asked to Meditate.

ATTENTION They will then be commanded to come to Attention.

SALUTATION All will then be commanded to execute a Full Salutation.

BOW The final formal command will be to execute the concluding bow.

DISMISS All will then be dismissed.

NOTE: All students will be required to pick up their belt (if they
have not already done so) and clean up the testing area.

REMINDER: Observers are not permitted to witness the FORMAL
TEST. They may, however, be allowed to witness the
promotion.

PRESENTATION OF RANK CEREMONY

When you are commanded to take off your old belt from your kneeling position, you will be required to neatly fold your old belt and place it vertically and to the left of your new belt. When properly positioned the left end of your new belt should touch the bottom end of your old belt so that the letter "L" is formed. (See illustration.) You will then be informed that this "L" shaped belt formation has four significant meanings -- LIE, LONGEVITY, LOYALTY, and LOTS & LOTS. The following will then be read to give you an indepth understanding of the significance of these terms:

1. If the "L" formed before you stands for a LIE, a LIE that you
are not deserving of your new rank, then you are not to
accept it. However, if you feel that you have earned it,
knowing with assurance that it is not being given to you as a
gift, you may then accept it.

2. If receiving your new rank is not a LIE then "L" can take on
its second meaning -- LONGEVITY or your ability to prolong
your life. LONGEVITY can only come about if your knowledge of
Kenpo is internalized to a point of spontaneous and
successful application. If receiving your new rank is a LIE,
then LONGEVITY will be short lived.

3. "L" also refers to LOYALTY. Whether it be to your instructor,
association, or country, LOYALTY cultivates integrity and
respect.

4. The statement, "One becomes humble when he comes to the
realization that what he knows is very little.", is an
introduction to the meaning of the fourth "L". In this case
"L" stands for LOTS and LOTS. That is, no matter how good
you become there is still LOTS and LOTS to learn and perfect.

From your kneeling position, you will be commanded to bow and
touch your forehead to the top and flat side of your new belt. You
will remain in this position for approximately five (5) seconds
before being asked to return to your kneeling position. The
significance of this formality is as follows (read):

1. At the moment your forehead touches your new belt you are to
mentally transfer your previous knowledge to your new rank
and to establish room for greater knowledge yet to come. You
are to also ponder on the following:
a. Fully understand your new roll as a senior student.
b Become a competent example among your fellow
students.
c. Create rapport among them.
d. Encourage, and assist them whenever possible.
e. Avoid taking advantage of them.
f. In no way subject them to ridicule and suppression.

While still kneeling the following will then be read to those being
promoted:

As you are promoted to your next rank, do you solemnly pledge
to use the art of Kenpo solely for purposes of defense and never
for aggression? (Wait for response.) Will you strive to impart an
attitude of respect and appreciation for the art of Kenpo, and an
understanding of what Kenpo truly entails? (Wait for response.)
Will you endeavor to refrain or sanction the use of Kenpo for
destructive or harmful designs? (Wait for response.) Do you make
these promises solemnly and on your honor? (Wait for response.)

As long as you continue to keep this oath inviolate, may it be
granted that you enjoy the life and practice of Kenpo, and forever
be respected by your associates. However, should you trespass
and violate this oath, it is hoped that the reverse will not be your
lot.

Let us now recite the Kenpo Creed:

"I come to you with only Karate, empty hands. I have no weapons, but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles, or my honor; should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong; then here are my weapons, Karate, my empty hands."

By the authority granted under the constitution of the governing
body of the (Organization Name), we do hereby grant you your
new and respective rank(s).

The student(s) who have passed will then put on his/her (their)
new belt and will adjust the knot on his/her (their) belt so that it
is positioned as required -- left side for males and right side for
females.

The following will then be read:

Any dishonor to this school, the (Organization), or to any of its members can bring immediate and automatic revocation of rank and honor. As symbolized in our association patch, the bottom which forms the shape of an ax represents the executioner. In the event a member is influenced by evil ideas and thoughts contrary to our philosophy, or shames the (Organization), he is to be cut off, never to co-exist with us again.

Those who have been promoted will then be asked to stand in a horse stance with hands clenched and cocked at the waist. At this stage all will be informed of the next part of the ceremony -- the BIRTH OF PAIN. The following will then be read or extemporaneously discussed:

The earning of your new rank can be compared to the birth of a new child. For those of you who have been advanced from one color belt to another, the birth of your new rank is obvious. On the other hand for those of you who have received tips within the rank of Brown or Black, your new rank, although not as obvious, is indeed significant. Therefore, comparable to a female who goes through labor pains during the birth of her new child you too will be symbolically experiencing the birth of pain regarding your new rank. This experience is obtained through the execution of a "friendly kick" or "hand strike" as a reminder that the new rank you have received did not come easy. Accordingly rank should not come easy for those you teach. Make every effort to make them work for their rank as you have. The birth of pain is a reminder that your students should earn and not be given new rank.

There .......... now you have it...........

:asian:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Keep in mind this original process may have been changed by different organizations today.. here is the original format tho.....

FORMAL PROCEDURES TO BE OBSERVED DURING EXAMINATION FOR PROMOTION (Observers are not permitted to witness the Formal Test)

During the testing period for promotion, the following formalities should be adhered to:

LINE UP The students (or student) being tested will be
commanded to line up at the designated area.

TRAINING HORSE -
They will then be commanded to execute a Training Horse Stance (with their fists clenched and cocked on their hips).

They are to remain in this stance until the Board of Examiners
(Testing Committee) give them further instructions.

MEDITATE Meditation will be the next command.

ATTENTION Attention will be the next command.

SALUTATION The group will then be commanded to execute the Full Salutation.

BOW The command to bow will then be given.

SIT DOWN Students being tested will then be commanded to sit down on the mat, cross their legs, sit erect, and keep their
hands on their laps. (The Board of Examiners has the option to
request that students stand, reposition themselves, or make any
other adjustments dictated by environment, or by the nature of
the Test.)

FRONT & CENTER When student names are called, they are to
come to the front, center themselves before the Board, stand at
Attention (with their hands alongside their legs), and focus their
attention on the Chief Examiner conducting the test.

RESPONSE Students will then listen to what is asked of them and
respond, "Yes Sir", in acknowledgement of each and every
request.

COMMENCE Depending upon the request, the student will
commence by demonstrating his skill and knowledge according to
the best of his ability.

SALUTE After completing everything that is requested, the
student will then salute the Board of Examiners and await the
command to return.

RETURN The student will then be commanded to return to his/her
position and await further instructions. (Encourage students to
take prompt action when returning to their former position.)

LINE UP At the conclusion of the testing period, all students will
be commanded to line up in a straight line in front of the Board
of Examiners. They will then be commanded to remain in a
Training Horse Stance (with their fists clenched and cocked on
their hips.) They are to remain fast and await further
instructions.

DECISION - At this point the Board of Examiners must make whatever decisions are necessary to establish who passed or
failed their test. It is suggested that the Board of Examiners seek
an isolated area, or room, where no one (other than the
Examiners) can hear the discussions and decisions that are being
made. Once the decisions are made, with the majority rule taking
precedent, return to the testing area to inform the students as to
who passed or failed.

NOTE: Students being tested are to be warned that any talking,
slouching, or unapproved adjournment during the testing period
could result in disqualification.

FURTHER NOTE: Realizing that testing procedures often require
tailoring, permission is hereby granted if such action is
necessary to improve the situation.

REMINDER: The above procedures are for FORMAL TESTS and
observers are not permitted to witness such tests. Instructors,
however, may wish to conduct INFORMAL TESTS of their own. In
this case observers may be permitted if so elected.

FORMAL PROCEDURES TO BE OBSERVED DURING PROMOTION

RETURN - The Board of Examiners, upon their return, will now
become the Presentation Committee.

ATTENTION At this point it is the duty of the Chief Examiner to
call the students to Attention. Upon his command, the students
will snap to Attention and face the Presentation Committee as
they re- enter the room.

COMMENTS General and specific comments will then be
addressed to individuals or the group as a whole. Students will
then be told whether they passed or failed.

FRONT & CENTER Those individuals who did not pass the test
will be asked to reassemble to the rear. Those who passed will
be asked to move to the front and center themselves before the
Presentation Committee. If the number of students who passed
are of concern, it is recommended that two or more lines be
formed to accommodate the group. If there is only enough to
form one line, have the students remain where they are
presently standing.

KNEEL The students will receive the command to kneel before
the Presentation Committee.

NEW BELT The new belt will then be placed on the floor in front
of, and parallel to the student.

OLD BELT The students will then be commanded to take off their
old belt. They are to neatly fold their old belt and place it
vertically and to the left of their new belt so that when the left
end of the new belt touches the bottom end of the old belt, they
form the letter "L". They will then be instructed as to the
significance of this belt formation.

THE TOUCH From the students' kneeling position, command
them to bow, and touch their foreheads to the top and flat side
of their new belt. Have them remain in this position for at least
six (6) seconds before returning to their kneeling, upright
position. They will again be instructed as to the significance of
this formality.

NEW BELT The students who have passed will then put on their
new belt and will adjust the knot on their belt so that it is
positioned properly.

RISE Upon the command rise, the students will then snap into an
Attention Stance.

TRAINING HORSE - When commanded, the students will then drop
into a Training Horse with their fists clenched and on their hips.

INITIATION The Chief Examiner and the Instructor(s) will then
initiate the students, as well as explain the reason for the
initiation.

ATTENTION The passing group will then be commanded to come
to Attention.

LINE UP The entire group (whether they passed or failed) will
then be commanded to again return back to their original
formation when first tested and line up in an orderly manner.

COMMENTS Final comments will be addressed to the students.

COMMITTEE - At this point the Presentation Committee will also stand and form a line facing the students. The highest ranking
belt will stand to the extreme left (Committee's point of view) and
all others (highest to the least) to his right.

SALUTE & HANDSHAKE All students will then be commanded to
execute a Humble Salute and shake the hand of each Committee
member, starting from the highest to the least ranking black belt.
(From the student's point of view, they will start at the right and
work their way to the left.) The first student to start this
procedure will be the student with the highest rank. All others
are to follow in the order of their succeeding rank. Congratulations are in order if committeemen wish to do so.

JOIN - When the Senior Student salutes and shakes the hand of
the last Presentation member, he and the remaining students
are to join the line and in turn salute, and shake the hands of
each of the remaining students. Students may also congratulate
each other if the wish to do so.

MEDITATE The entire group will then be asked to Meditate.

ATTENTION They will then be commanded to come to Attention.

SALUTATION All will then be commanded to execute a Full Salutation.

BOW The final formal command will be to execute the concluding bow.

DISMISS All will then be dismissed.

NOTE: All students will be required to pick up their belt (if they
have not already done so) and clean up the testing area.

REMINDER: Observers are not permitted to witness the FORMAL
TEST. They may, however, be allowed to witness the
promotion.

PRESENTATION OF RANK CEREMONY

When you are commanded to take off your old belt from your kneeling position, you will be required to neatly fold your old belt and place it vertically and to the left of your new belt. When properly positioned the left end of your new belt should touch the bottom end of your old belt so that the letter "L" is formed. (See illustration.) You will then be informed that this "L" shaped belt formation has four significant meanings -- LIE, LONGEVITY, LOYALTY, and LOTS & LOTS. The following will then be read to give you an indepth understanding of the significance of these terms:

1. If the "L" formed before you stands for a LIE, a LIE that you
are not deserving of your new rank, then you are not to
accept it. However, if you feel that you have earned it,
knowing with assurance that it is not being given to you as a
gift, you may then accept it.

2. If receiving your new rank is not a LIE then "L" can take on
its second meaning -- LONGEVITY or your ability to prolong
your life. LONGEVITY can only come about if your knowledge of
Kenpo is internalized to a point of spontaneous and
successful application. If receiving your new rank is a LIE,
then LONGEVITY will be short lived.

3. "L" also refers to LOYALTY. Whether it be to your instructor,
association, or country, LOYALTY cultivates integrity and
respect.

4. The statement, "One becomes humble when he comes to the
realization that what he knows is very little.", is an
introduction to the meaning of the fourth "L". In this case
"L" stands for LOTS and LOTS. That is, no matter how good
you become there is still LOTS and LOTS to learn and perfect.

From your kneeling position, you will be commanded to bow and
touch your forehead to the top and flat side of your new belt. You
will remain in this position for approximately five (5) seconds
before being asked to return to your kneeling position. The
significance of this formality is as follows (read):

1. At the moment your forehead touches your new belt you are to
mentally transfer your previous knowledge to your new rank
and to establish room for greater knowledge yet to come. You
are to also ponder on the following:
a. Fully understand your new roll as a senior student.
b Become a competent example among your fellow
students.
c. Create rapport among them.
d. Encourage, and assist them whenever possible.
e. Avoid taking advantage of them.
f. In no way subject them to ridicule and suppression.

While still kneeling the following will then be read to those being
promoted:

As you are promoted to your next rank, do you solemnly pledge
to use the art of Kenpo solely for purposes of defense and never
for aggression? (Wait for response.) Will you strive to impart an
attitude of respect and appreciation for the art of Kenpo, and an
understanding of what Kenpo truly entails? (Wait for response.)
Will you endeavor to refrain or sanction the use of Kenpo for
destructive or harmful designs? (Wait for response.) Do you make
these promises solemnly and on your honor? (Wait for response.)

As long as you continue to keep this oath inviolate, may it be
granted that you enjoy the life and practice of Kenpo, and forever
be respected by your associates. However, should you trespass
and violate this oath, it is hoped that the reverse will not be your
lot.

Let us now recite the Kenpo Creed:

"I come to you with only Karate, empty hands. I have no weapons, but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles, or my honor; should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong; then here are my weapons, Karate, my empty hands."

By the authority granted under the constitution of the governing
body of the (Organization Name), we do hereby grant you your
new and respective rank(s).

The student(s) who have passed will then put on his/her (their)
new belt and will adjust the knot on his/her (their) belt so that it
is positioned as required -- left side for males and right side for
females.

The following will then be read:

Any dishonor to this school, the (Organization), or to any of its members can bring immediate and automatic revocation of rank and honor. As symbolized in our association patch, the bottom which forms the shape of an ax represents the executioner. In the event a member is influenced by evil ideas and thoughts contrary to our philosophy, or shames the (Organization), he is to be cut off, never to co-exist with us again.

Those who have been promoted will then be asked to stand in a horse stance with hands clenched and cocked at the waist. At this stage all will be informed of the next part of the ceremony -- the BIRTH OF PAIN. The following will then be read or extemporaneously discussed:

The earning of your new rank can be compared to the birth of a new child. For those of you who have been advanced from one color belt to another, the birth of your new rank is obvious. On the other hand for those of you who have received tips within the rank of Brown or Black, your new rank, although not as obvious, is indeed significant. Therefore, comparable to a female who goes through labor pains during the birth of her new child you too will be symbolically experiencing the birth of pain regarding your new rank. This experience is obtained through the execution of a "friendly kick" or "hand strike" as a reminder that the new rank you have received did not come easy. Accordingly rank should not come easy for those you teach. Make every effort to make them work for their rank as you have. The birth of pain is a reminder that your students should earn and not be given new rank.

There .......... now you have it...........

:asian:

Ya like I said without the technical breakdown of a grading. But thank you for posting the breakdown of grading for now I have a copy of the offical script.

a credible insturctor for help with your studio thru an organization..... at least this is one good example of some of the information that is available. **wink**

Use it in good Kenpo Health!! Keep the traditions strong vs watered down.

:asian:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

a credible insturctor for help with your studio thru an organization..... at least this is one good example of some of the information that is available. **wink**

Use it in good Kenpo Health!! Keep the traditions strong vs watered down.

:asian:

Just got to love those subtle hints. Yes I am still considering it, it would be a lot easier if there were some videoson the market that would help me have th einofrmation at my fingertips.

I do have private custom ones you know!:asian:

I do have private custom ones you know!

We are talking Kenpo training, aren't we? :o


:asian:

Of course we are talking Kenpo and ONLY Kenpo!!

Geez

:asian:

Ricardo guy from Texas!:rofl:

Hey Mr.C, tell us if any high ranking guys every got demoted?

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

I do have private custom ones you know!:asian:

I will definitely have to keep that in mind. I am always looking at expanding my horizons and knowledge base.

Originally posted by Ronin
Hey Mr.C, tell us if any high ranking guys every got demoted?

Oh man, you are really looking to start trouble aren't you!!

Hmmmm No, I can't think of any high ranking guys ever getting demoted.

:mad:

Some people want all the dirt. I never heard of anyone being demoted but I have heard of people falling out of favor in the Kenpo community.

you have to watch all the "ronins" they are all trouble.

:asian:

It must have something to do with the name.

I'm sure!

:asian:

Hey Mr. C whats the kenpo senior counsel up to these days?

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Ricardo guy from Texas!:rofl:

I heard that. The next time you get a Philly Cheese Sandwich, I hope you find an eye ball in it!:mad:

Man, I don't wanna make you that mad! I forgot you know all my famous eateries!:rofl:

:asian:
just teasin with ya you big lovable texas armadillo!

howd we get on the subject of food?

I was under the impression that Grandmaster Parker promtoed Nick Cerio to 9th degree from 5th?
Tigerstorm

Originally posted by tigerstorm

I was under the impression that Grandmaster Parker promtoed Nick Cerio to 9th degree from 5th?
Tigerstorm

I was under the impression that he never promoted anyone
past 7th degree. Minus the notorious honorary 8ths. I've
never heard of anyone getting 9th?

It was a cross over rank certification that was dated. Cerio was to join the IKKA and start teaching the curriculum ..... withing a short period of time, he opened a studio close to an exisiting IKKA studio so the friendship was ended.


:asian:

Ok thank you
Tigerstorm

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

It was a cross over rank certification that was dated. Cerio was to join the IKKA and start teaching the curriculum ..... withing a short period of time, he opened a studio close to an exisiting IKKA studio so the friendship was ended.

Was anyone else a crossover rank? How long after he met Mr.
Parker did his cert get signed?

They knew each other for years....... But Cerio decided to finally join and study "under" Ed Parker and was to learn his system or so he said.

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

They knew each other for years....... But Cerio decided to finally join and study "under" Ed Parker and was to learn his system or so he said.

Majorly uncool! :mad: :mad:

Except for what his people want to claim ...... and he didn't learn the American Kenpo Material.

But I don't think it matters much today.

:asian:

Originally posted by GouRonin


Any of the 10th today have given themselves that rank or been given it through associations they run etc.

But then again, no one ranked Parker to 10th either.

That is not 100% accurate. A panel of Masters can elevate someone to 10th under the Intrnational Sokiship rules as well as some other sanctioning bodies. Within one's own system, a senior master can have his own black belts elevate him as long as he has at least 2/3 of them agree and at least 10 to promote. Don't like that idea at all, but I know someone who did it. No I do not like or respect him so I will not mention his name. You can also inherit it.

Originally posted by Chiduce

There was one other promotion to 8th Degree Black Belt (Associate Master). This rank was awarded to the legendary Jay. T. Will in which my kenpo lineage is traced back to GM Parker through is student Master Ed. Hutchison. Master Will was Master Hutchison's Instructor and just 1 of the 10,000 or more students of Master Will! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
My instructor was also ranked by Master Will. He went under him after SGM Parker passed on.

Originally posted by Chiduce

Before he died, Master Will promoted only 2 Black belts to the rank of 6th Degree. Master Dave Harris was one of those Black Belts

Have to disagree there, he promoted Rich Alford also, I have seen the certificate.

Originally posted by Seig



That is not 100% accurate. A panel of Masters can elevate someone to 10th under the Intrnational Sokiship rules as well as some other sanctioning bodies. Within one's own system, a senior master can have his own black belts elevate him as long as he has at least 2/3 of them agree and at least 10 to promote. Don't like that idea at all, but I know someone who did it. No I do not like or respect him so I will not mention his name. You can also inherit it.
Sorry guys, that was just a touch of it, obviously some of you knew much more and I posted before I read all the way through!

If you get a chance ask Big D about the reasoning that Parker gave for ranking himself. It makes perfect sense and I agree with him.

Just reading all this string wore me out ... Only to end up back where I thought it was. Talk about a good house cleaning.

Everything stayed pretty clean up until the demise of the IKKA's influence, and fragmentation of the Kenpo Seniors in various directions. In all else, I just remember Dennis Conatser was there with Mr. Parker ... like a bad penny, he always turned up (just kidding.) If anyone knows the history it would be him. Maybe we can talk him into writing a book. I would buy it. Maybe even a couple of books. Uh-oh, now it could be volumes. Watch out, now it is video tapes, CD's, DVD's.

You see how confused it has gotten in a decade since the IKKA's demise. Imagine what it will be like a decade from now if we do not preserve this knowledge.

Oos,
Michael B.:asian:

I have stated before that I did in fact asked him the all important question........ "Who promoted you to 10th?" Of course I qualified it by also saying.... "Sir, I really don't care because I love the system but I have heard others ask and are afraid to ask you and that has peaked my curiosity as well. I really don't care one way or the other because you are an awesome teacher and have developed a great art, but how did you come to wearing a 10th Degree."

Mr. Parker just looked at me for a minute and then said... "Well, to tell ya the truth, I looked around at all the other "Masters of our Time" and evaluated just what they had contributed to the Arts. I then made a list of "MY" accomplishments, and regulated my rank accordingly. No one else has:

* brought together Martial Artists like the Long Beach
Internationals has done for as many years in a row -
* has the current terminology as we have
* Applied Logic in the manner I did
* Created several training aids to illustrate our Art
- Universal Pattern
- Web of Knowledge
- 8 Preparatory Considerations that tailor to the current times
- Movement Curriculums that are Logical and Practical
- Applied Principles of Motion to everything we do
- Taught methods of teaching the material
- Promoted Creative thinking within the ranks
* Written Thesis
* Form Thesis
* Created the 1st truly American Developed Art not a
transplanted one from Asia or elsewhere

"As I looked at these accomplishments in comparison with other "Current Masters of my Time" I ranked myself accordingly."

I said..... Yep ...... you got my vote! No one in history has accomplished what you have...... That's why I'm here and not somewhere else. He just looked at me and laughed ...... then said, "Lets go to Genghis Khans, I'm hungry!"

I never really thought about where Mr. Parker got his rank, just didn't care I guess. The man was pretty smart about the art of fighting and what it takes to win.

But I still can't get over the one's that have promoted themselves to 10th since he died. Now there are more 10th degrees than you can shake a tree at, where were they when he was alive?


:asian:

Originally posted by Klondike93

I never really thought about where Mr. Parker got his rank, just didn't care I guess. The man was pretty smart about the art of fighting and what it takes to win.

But I still can't get over the one's that have promoted themselves to 10th since he died. Now there are more 10th degrees than you can shake a tree at, where were they when he was alive?


:asian:

Yes there are quite a few AK grand masters out there and the number can only go up as groups and people splinter off.

None of them has even come close to actually developing anything "NEW" like Mr. Parker did. They are all reworking or spin-offs of what he already established.

I myself am comfortable to just keep alive all the Art he had while he was here and expand it as he wanted it!~

"There are two ways of spreading the light......... One to be the candle or Two... the mirror that reflects it."

We can't all be candles but we can all be mirrors!