Questioning a master, what would you ask?

[Bob Hubbard]

Out of curiosity,

If you have the chance to ask questions of a martial arts master, what would you ask?



Lets keep em serious and respectful.

:asian:

[moromoro]

well that would depend on his style.


but universaly and in particularly if you are a high level yourself you would ask about strategy. this is the most important thing........................


terry

[grimfang]

first question i would ask a master, if given the opportunity: "Is there anything I can get for you? A chair? Coffee?"
After that, I would be content to keep my mouth shut, listen, and learn.
In the grand scheme of things, my specific questions would be pretty irrelevant, almost petty. And the odds are that if i paid attention and listened long enough, most of them will be answered in one form or another.

[RCastillo]

Once they reached a level within their own system, that there was no more to learn, how did they feel about themselves? Especially someone like Master Al Tracy who is 64, and has seen. and been through so much. :asian:

[moromoro]

some of us on this forum are fortunate enough to already be the presonal pupils of our styles Grandmasters. I guess we are the lucky ones....

[RyuShiKan]

Not to single anyone out but I am always curious as to why westerners go into “grovel mode” when they encounter a “master”. This seems to be some sort of western affliction that must have been caused by watching too many bad chop socky kung fu movies.
I have met many “masters” in Asia and have found the ones that really get into having the groveling students more often than not don’t know jack, and the ones that are down to earth and know their stuff treat everyone equally and don’t expect students to grovel before them……….in fact I know a few that despise it and think those kinds of students are brown nosers.
I am by no means a “master” but have had people try to kiss my back side………unfortunately for those unknowing folks that do this it really ticks me off and they find themselves being the crash dummy during technique demo time



The only question I would ask would be if it was alright if I trained with them……….then I would keep my cake hole shut and listen to what I was told to do and not do.

[moromoro]

I am always curious as to why westerners go into “grovel mode” when they encounter a “master”. This seems to be some sort of western affliction that must have been caused by watching too many bad chop socky kung fu movies.

i think it is because of the fact that many people dont train with their styles GM all that often yet alone on a weekly basis...
the groveling i think is too over the top..... look at some of the responses here.

[grimfang]

there is a big difference between groveling and showing respect and courtesy. If somebody has achieved the status of master (or grandmaster, or whatever...) and that person has chosen to take a few moments to share some knowledge with me, then the least i can do is try to make that person comfortable. Also, i feel it would be rather arrogant of me to interrogate this individual, or press him/her for specific information. This person would know what needs to be said, would know what information would be benificial to my current and future development.
Would i be willing to shine his shoes? Hell no. But I would certainly be polite and try to provide basic comforts, such as a chair and a beverage. Although I have not spent much time around a grandmaster, I can tell you from experience that a seat and a drink are things that they do enjoy on occasion. And they are less likely to tell me what I want to know if they are ucomforatble. Make the person comfortable, and that person will be more likely to spend a longer time speaking.
There are individuals who grovel. Odds are, they have watched too many movies, or are simply misguided.

[chufeng]

Once they reached a level within their own system, that there was no more to learn, how did they feel about themselves?

I doubt that a "master" believes there is no more to learn...


I don't think I'd have any questions...I'd just watch, listen, and feel.

:asian:
chufeng

[Elfan]

so how do you make a fist?

[Randy Strausbaugh]

What is true about your art and what is nonsense?

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh

[tshadowchaser]

there is a big difference between groveling and showing respect and courtesy. If somebody has achieved the status of master (or grandmaster, or whatever...) and that person has chosen to take a few moments to share some knowledge with me, then the least i can do is try to make that person comfortable.
To me this is acceptable.Why not show some common decencey and be polite to them.


moromoro some of us on this forum are fortunate enough to already be the presonal pupils of our styles Grandmasters. I guess we are the lucky ones....

How verry true some of us have had the pleasure of being the student of more than one Gradmaster in different styles That dose not mean that we where their best friend or that we called them by their fist name. Yes they where only human like us but some of us respect our elders in life and in the arts.

Sitting back and listening is a way of gaining knowledge. The arts are not completly about distroying something.
I am not sure what I would ask . Perhaphs I would ask what training was like when HE/She started and/or if he would tell me of those whom he traned with and what they relayed to him of their early training days. History comes to us in many ways.

Cultural and ethnic differences may relate how we answere in this thread but the attitue of being correct or not thinking the other person has a right to there ideas is the wrong way to go about haveing a friendly disscussion

[Kirk]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
I am by no means a “master” but have had people try to kiss my back side………unfortunately for those unknowing folks that do this it really ticks me off and they find themselves being the crash dummy during technique demo time

In kenpo, with the seniors (most don't like to be called "Masters")
it's a privilege to be "the crash test dummy".

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by grimfang
there is a big difference between groveling and showing respect and courtesy. If somebody has achieved the status of master (or grandmaster, or whatever...) and that person has chosen to take a few moments to share some knowledge with me, then the least i can do is try to make that person comfortable.

Why does the master rate this treatment? Do you treat everyone you meet this way? If not, why not? How does Mr. Master rate, and Joe Regular does not?

As long as you are treating Mr. Master no better nor any differently than Joe Regular, then offering a chair and a beverage is fine... But if Joe Regular gets to stand while you bow down before Mr. Master, then something is amiss...


Also, i feel it would be rather arrogant of me to interrogate this individual, or press him/her for specific information. This person would know what needs to be said, would know what information would be benificial to my current and future development.

Bull s**t. A martial arts "master" first of all would never allow someone to refer to him as such. Said "master" would never allow you to treat him/her in a manner that was better than the way other around were being treated. Nor would he/she believe that he/she was capable of determining your future destiny.

You watch too many kung fu movies, methinks.

If the person is a martial arts "master," then their advice and knowledge is restricted to their understanding of their martial techniques. They are not spiritual gurus, religious icons or some other form of enlightened being. They are people, just like you and me. Like the term sensei implies, they are those who have "gone before," and so while they may know more about some things than we are, they are not the all powerful, all knowing, all seeing mystical beings that the movies have burned into our collective unconscious.

Mr. Master wouldn't necessarily know what to say to you, nor what divine information to impart to further your future progress. Then again, maybe he/she would. He/she might just tell you to keep practicing...


Although I have not spent much time around a grandmaster, I can tell you from experience that a seat and a drink are things that they do enjoy on occasion.

Which would be so unlike anybody else...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Why does the master rate this treatment? Do you treat everyone you meet this way? If not, why not? How does Mr. Master rate, and Joe Regular does not?

As long as you are treating Mr. Master no better nor any differently than Joe Regular, then offering a chair and a beverage is fine... But if Joe Regular gets to stand while you bow down before Mr. Master, then something is amiss...



Bull s**t. A martial arts "master" first of all would never allow someone to refer to him as such. Said "master" would never allow you to treat him/her in a manner that was better than the way other around were being treated. Nor would he/she believe that he/she was capable of determining your future destiny.

You watch too many kung fu movies, methinks.

If the person is a martial arts "master," then their advice and knowledge is restricted to their understanding of their martial techniques. They are not spiritual gurus, religious icons or some other form of enlightened being. They are people, just like you and me. Like the term sensei implies, they are those who have "gone before," and so while they may know more about some things than we are, they are not the all powerful, all knowing, all seeing mystical beings that the movies have burned into our collective unconscious.

Mr. Master wouldn't necessarily know what to say to you, nor what divine information to impart to further your future progress. Then again, maybe he/she would. He/she might just tell you to keep practicing...



Which would be so unlike anybody else...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

All that you mention, is what bothers me now about TKD. I wish it were different.:asian:

[Bob Hubbard]

ok, I think we're heading in the wrong direction than what I was thinking.

hmm...

Lets try a different tact here....

Think 'interview' or "Q&A" session.

:asian:

[chufeng]

OK...

"Sifu, why did you decide to live in Unionville, Iowa?"

"What one quality of your art do think is most important?"

"How do you establish a "standard" but allow for variation within the system?"

"Where do you see your art 10, 15, or 20 years from now?"

"How do you prevent "wannabes" from riding on your coat-tails; in other words, how do you prevent frauds from using your good name?"

"How do reconcile the philosophy of non-aggression with the deadly aspects of your art?"

That is a preliminary list...
...questions I've already asked my teacher.


:asian:
chufeng

[Jill666]

I'm not sure I could pull a set of questions out of my... well I would be much more interested in seeing him promote his art, expain some principles, then feel it. I'd love to be uke for the greats.

Q&A isn't my bag unless I myself have a deep understanding of the art in question, or at least a good grasp of the principles behind that art's movement.

Just my initial thoughts.

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
ok, I think we're heading in the wrong direction than what I was thinking.

hmm...

Lets try a different tact here....

Think 'interview' or "Q&A" session.

:asian:

You should vaporize those that went against your directive. Send out Darth Maul!:eek:

[chufeng]

I'm not sure I could pull a set of questions out of my...

Jill,

I think Yiliquan1 said it best...the "great" masters are very uncomfortable with that recognition...they remain students in their hearts.

My teacher is the heir to BaiXingQuan...he is the founder of YiLi.

But, he is like an older brother to me, a father to others and an uncle to others, still...he is VERY approachable and always willing to answer any question, provided he has the answer. I think those who put themselves on a pedestal are fooling themselves.

Nishiyama Sensei was very approachable, but I was afraid of breaking some sort of protocol when I met him (I had just made my first black sash) and limited my questions and interaction with him...my loss, I suppose...

Oyata Sensei was approachable, but you had to be willing to suffer the pain of an "explanation." He liked to SHOW you what he meant...not a lot of talking. In fact, when he caught me watching him and my teacher working on something other than what I was supposed to be working on, he said, "What are you looking at...get back to work." He was very direct, but also easy to ask questions of.

If a "master" asks you, or your class, if there are any questions...chances are he REALLY wants to answer your questions...take advantage of that opportunity.

:asian:
chufeng

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by chufeng
Oyata Sensei was approachable, but you had to be willing to suffer the pain of an "explanation." He liked to SHOW you what he meant...not a lot of talking.

There are a couple of reasons for this.
One is that it is sometimes difficult for Mr. Oyata to explain in English.........hell it's hard for me to explain them in English too!
Two, language doesn’t explain things well enough……….feeling is believing.



Originally posted by chufeng
In fact, when he caught me watching him and my teacher working on something other than what I was supposed to be working on, he said, "What are you looking at...get back to work." He was very direct, but also easy to ask questions of.


In our dojo principles one of the precepts is “ask questions freely to your instructors or superiors”.
Questions are encouraged.

[tshadowchaser]

my wife (who is not a student of anyone) once asked a Grandmaster in a Chinese family art who the title of head of family would go to seeing s he had no sons and the title had always been passed down to the eldest son or grandson.
It made him think for a while.
She once approched another Master (when I was in TKD) and pointed to me saying "how can he become better and what is he doing wrong" you see she talked to them like she would anyone else and they gave her good advice. OH, the answere to this one was "find a better instructor". I did

[TKDman]

What is the meaning of life?

lol!

[tonbo]

She once approched another Master (when I was in TKD) and pointed to me saying "how can he become better and what is he doing wrong" you see she talked to them like she would anyone else and they gave her good advice. OH, the answere to this one was "find a better instructor". I did

ROFL!!

Now THAT is the sign of a true master!!!

I can't say as how I've trained with any real "masters", since they all seem to avoid that title as if it were infected. Most of the upper belts/dans that I have trained with (some very high level, some better known than others) seem to have a very "regular guy" attitude, and training has been kind of a give-and-take thing.

When I was in iaido, and our instructor's instructor came to visit, we got a small token gift for him as a way of saying "Thanks for coming out". He had come out west from Chicago, simply because our instructor had asked; our token of thanks was a nice Japanese tea bowl/cup. He loved it. It was simple, inexpensive, and unpretensious.

I think that, if anything, I would ask a "master" simple, simple questions: "What advice would you give me?" "Am I doing this stance right?", and so on.

Yes, they deserve respect. So does everyone else. Start out by giving respect, and pull it back in increments from those people that demonstrate that they don't deserve it. Grovel? No. Fawn over? No. But definitely make the person, master or not, feel welcome.

As the saying goes: "Every man is my teacher; every man is my student". Pay close enough attention, and everyone can teach you *something*. In its own little way, doesn't that almost make most people you train with a "master"? :D

Oh, yeah.....and I would personally run from anyone that bills themselves as "Master". That sounds more like a masterful ego than anything else. Most of the "masters" that I have met have all introduced themselves by first name, no title, no pomposity. That, in my opinion, is really the mark of someone with class.

Just my opinion......your mileage may differ.

Peace--

[moromoro]

there seems to be a thin line between GROVELING and respecting in this thread


:asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian:

[Cruentus]

What are you looking at Biaach!

Wanna Fight!

:boxing:

Uh.....guess thats not really a question. It's a good thing I don't do that to my "master," or I'd be picking up my teeth every week.

Questions for an interview...

I would ask them to tell me stories about the "old days" of training, and (possibly) real life encounters of deuls and fights.

I train with manong Ted Buot in Balintawak, and he loves to tell stories. And....I love to hear em'!

:D

[moromoro]

I train with manong Ted Buot in Balintawak, and he loves to tell stories. And....I love to hear em'!

could you tel us of one such story???? fighting of course

[tonbo]

there seems to be a thin line between GROVELING and respecting in this thread

Yeah, it's a pretty thin line, in some cases.

Here's my unsolicited 2 cents' worth:

I think that anyone who has been around long enough to be considered a "master" in the martial arts has earned a good deal of respect. The time and effort that they have put into the martial arts should be recognized. However, I wouldn't treat them as superhuman, or godlike, or worthy of falling down on my knees in front of.

For the record, yes, I *do* treat guests at our school with the same level of respect. The other day, a lady showed up at our school for a meeting with our head instructor. He had been caught in traffic, and was going to be a little late. I offered her use of the office while she waited, and offered her a drink. She politely refused both; however, the offer was made. I would do the same for any visiting "master", any visiting instructor, or any visitor who was spending any length of time at the studio.

Is that groveling? I don't think so. I would say it is treating the dojo like my home, and making sure that guests are made to feel welcome. If they feel welcome, the chances are better that they will be back.

Once again: yes, masters have earned respect from me, regardless of style or age (we're talking legit masters, not 2-year-study-fakers). Then again, so have most regular guys who come to visit the dojo. I start out with respect for people, and, if they don't deserve as much as I initially give them, well.....they'll show it. ;)

Groveling before a fake or unworthy "master" is like tossing a match into a gas tanker. You're only going to feed the flame. I believe that true "masters" are going to make it clear that they are uncomfortable with special treatment--the ones that I have met just want to be one of the guys; they are learning, too, as they teach. And yeah, it's a privilege to be the "dummy" when they demonstrate....:D

Peace--

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by moromoro
could you tel us of one such story???? fighting of course

Definatily, but probably not til tomorrow. It'll take a lot of writing to get down the full effect.

Besides, me telling the story won't do it justice; It is much better to hear it from the old man. However, I'll try my best!

:D

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by moromoro
could you tel us of one such story???? fighting of course

There are a couple, and I will see what Paul writes :) and then decied what to post after him :D

[moromoro]

great stuff Paul and Rich cant wait to here some of the old stories.

[KenpoTess]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
There are a couple, and I will see what Paul writes :) and then decied what to post after him :D

Do tell :)

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by KenpoTess
Do tell :)

Actually I already did! In the first and second issue of MT magazine, I interviewed Manong Ted. I missed Sept., but I have Part III for Oct., and the conclusion part IV for November.

An awsome read. Not cause I wrote it; who cares about that. It was because of "who" I was interviewing. He's a real deal eskrimador; one of the few "old school" masters that we have left in Filipino Martial Arts. It is awesome hearing him tell stories from his unique perspective.

I recommend picking up a subscription to MT magazine; if not just for the interview, for the other articles as well. It is really inexpensive, especially considering the content of the magazine. I know that Kiath often has to scramble to get people (me included) to get there @$$es in gear to submit articles, but the end result so far has been great!

So for my stories and interview questions, check out MT mag! :asian: