Origin of the MOTTs

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by David Hoffman (in the WMAC forum) "I can also confirm the promotions to the title: Master of Tapi-Tapi, as previously announced. Professor considered these titles to be different from rank, as was the Datu title and others. Ranking had different criteria than titles. I was personally present when these were announced. I also read and discussed the announcements that were published with Professor; word for word."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David,
The promotions of the MOTTs is the most [i]secretive[i/] (for lack of a better term) promotion in Modern Arnis history. I mean this in the fact that a blow by blow description of the promotion has never been put forth. It showed up on Jeff's website as a done deal and that was that. Even the MOTTs have never said how it exactly happened.

Could you post a detailed "time, place, form and event" of the promotion. I, for one, would love to have the facts.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[Mao]

Why would a blow by blow be so important. With all the recent uproar about such things it would only be picked apart and sniped at anyway. I could give facts, but there are those who would snipe at them, or not believe them or whatever. It just isn't worth the hassle. Who, outside of our organization, really gives a hoot, and why?
Mao

[Dan Anderson]

Dan,
Why would it be important? To fill the void with data. Wherever there is a void, inaccurate data will always get dubbed in to fill that void.

Unfortunately, you have a point about it will get picked apart and sniped at. I won't. I am turly curious. For me, it is important that I am informed and for no other purpose than to fill the void.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[dearnis.com]

Dan (Dan A. that is...)
Is that like being "truly" curious.
I am too actually.

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by Mao
I could give facts, but there are those who would snipe at them, or not believe them or whatever. It just isn't worth the hassle.

I agree with MAO, that now might be the wrong time. That being said, the people should be able to know what people are claiming and other sides to the story.

[Mao]

What "void"? People already know the "claims". I would only be adding ammo for the poop throwing contest. It has been cnfirmed...............oops, a typo,dearnis, that's like "confirmed", by David Hoffman. Alot was said to me by Remy, my lovely Wife and I were with him a few days before his passing, and alot was said to others. Much of what was said to me only my Wife and I know. Some people would not believe some of the things he said to me. It is better left un repeated. I see no need to continue with a he said, she said, lets debate and decide for ouselves thing. I think we should just "do our work" for the BETTERMENT of modern arnis, as in the big picture, not the what can it do for me picture.
With respect,
Mao

[Dan Anderson]

Dan,
You're getting geared up for a battle that I am not starting nor fighting. Dates, events, when, where, in front of who he awarded what is where the void is. I am not interested in any kind of flame war regarding MOTT titles, legitimacy or whatever. I got over being pissed at the MOTTs a while back. In fact, Ijust got an email from Randi Shea inviting me to one of the IMAF camps in the near future.

Tim got promoted by test in 2000. Dieter got his 6th and datuship (is there a word?) in Germany mid '90s. I got mine in 1992 in Portland, Oregon at the NW Camp. Data on these I have. Data on MOTT title awards I don't. That is all it is pure and simple. Perhaps if you privately email me that might do it.

Like I said, I'm not interested in any kind of flame war. I'm legitimately curious about info not broadly released.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[Brian Johns]

It appears from the latest posting on the WMAC forum that Datu Hoffman has graciously offered to discuss these issues by private e-mail with Dan Anderson. Hopefully, the discussions between those two will be fruitful.

As for my personal opinion, it's in line with MAO. I think that each one of us has to decide which organization we would be happy in and move on and respect the other Modern Arnis organizations. We all have different paths, that's all.

Take care,
Brian Johns
Columbus, Ohio

[Mao]

Dan A.,
I'm not gearing up for a fight, nor did I mean to imply that your starting one. Just stating my opinion. (with gentle voice inflection) It has been said more than once that what other organizations do shouldn't matter to another organization. Unless someone is writing a book. One of my points was that there is alot of info. that has not been broadly released. I don't think alot of it needs to be. Rest assured that some it would be hurtful. No need for that.
Mao

[Dan Anderson]

Dan,
Thanks for the clarification. The typed word doesn't show any kind of inflection whatsoever. As I told David Hoffman, I don't care about the pain and anguish of RP's final days nor do I need any dirt or controversy. There is an information void in my understanding of the history of Modern Arnis that I would like filled. That's all.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[Roland]

Do NOT start making claims about what Professor "may" have said to you before his passing.

[Rich Parsons]

Please Keep the discussion friendly and polite.

Rich Parsons
MT Moderator

[Dan Anderson]

Guys, Guys, Guys, Guys, Guys, :eek:

I just want some info. Use the phone lines for blasting.

Dan, the non-moderator :asian:

[Mao]

Roland,
Back off!! I didn't claim that "perhaps" Remy said something to me. The fact is, he did. It is your doltish kind of comment that keeps me form discussing matters like this. Get a life.
Mao

[dearnis.com]

From discussing them even.

Chad
Typo Cop
:D

[Mao]

Typo Cop,
Thanks for the levity. :)
Mao

[Cruentus]

POOP FIGHT!!!!!

:goop: :rockets: :teleport:

After Having said that....

This issue has been hammered to the floor. I will admit to having been one of the hammerers. As one of the hammerers I will say that at this point that I agree with MAO that now would not be the right time or place to get into a "History of the MOTTS," for it would just spark up flames, as it has. At some point, we have to agree to disagree, then do what's best for the art.

MAO, Whoopass, as well as other members of IMAF, Inc. have maintained that they do not feel that they have to justify themselves, or explain their position online. I respect this position.

However, I have always maintained my belief is that if you have an organization that claims leadership, you should have an open and public communication line to answer questions, concerns, and even slams. This is the only way we can check and balance ourselves, and seperate what is real from fraudulent. There are no laws to regulate the martial arts, so we must do so ourselves through open communication. This doesn't mean that you have to answer to things on MartialTalk, per say, but I believe that something should be in place. I also believe that the history and origin of leadership should also be an open book. There should be something to really break it all down, whether it be in a press release, something on a website, or what have you. I don't think that there should be this stuff: "I was told something in secret, but I can't/won't tell you about it, so just trust us when I say that we are the leaders and you should agree with us and follow us." This may work for the Bush administration, but this doesn't work in martial arts. (lol) I jest a bit, here, but I do feel that open communication with everyone, including "outsiders" is important for an organization that claims leadership.

The above is only my opinion. Others share different opinions on how communication should be handled. It's been argued over (and over again) last year, but I think that it is time to agree to disagree. The MOTT's can and will handle THEIR organization how they see fit, regardless of my or anyone elses opinions. I just hope that we can all remain friends in the art at the end of it all.

Your friend in the art,
PAUL JANULIS
"Rankless"
:cool:

[Mao]

Hey Paul,
I know you were jesting a bit. I just want to clarify that as far as the MOTTS are concenred, nothing was done in secret. At some point perhaps we'll all talk about many things. I think that right now we/people are straightening up their own houses first, or maybe should be.
Mao

[dearnis.com]

awww.
no typos.
:(

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Mao
Hey Paul,
I know you were jesting a bit. I just want to clarify that as far as the MOTTS are concenred, nothing was done in secret. At some point perhaps we'll all talk about many things. I think that right now we/people are straightening up their own houses first, or maybe should be.
Mao

Understood. :cool:

[Roland]

I can live with that!

Can you?

[arnisador]

Please, keep the discussion polite and respectful.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

[Brian Johns]

Originally posted by Roland
I can live with that!

Can you?

Roland,

I can vouch for what Mao is saying as I accompanied him to Victoria to visit Professor in February of 2001. While there, Professor expressed his frustrations to us over various things in the Modern Arnis world. Much of it does not need to be repeated since it would be pointless. I have no doubt that he probably expressed these thoughts to other people.

Lest you think that all conversations were the "confidential" kind, they were not. The vast majority of the conversations concerned the history of arnis, his life experiences, his hopes for the future of arnis and talking about his days in the Phillippines.

The point of this post is that Mao is right about what he is saying. Maybe you didn't like the way he said it. You know how it goes when you type something over the internet. Voice inflection is just not there.

Take care,
Brian Johns

[Mao]

Whoopass,
Thanks for the backup. Obviously This Roland clown is clueless. I can live with that.
Mao

[Mao]

I just smile at his ignorance and feel sorry for him. No malice.
Mao

[Mao]

Forgive him, he knows not what he talks about. The poor thing.

[Roland]

you never really mentioned anything about your first trip up there, it was really your reference to your second trip, where you say...

"Alot was said to me by Remy, my lovely Wife and I were with him a few days before his passing, and alot was said to others. Much of what was said to me only my Wife and I know. Some people would not believe some of the things he said to me. It is better left un repeated."

Attack me with as many of those other small posts as you need, that is ok, not an issue for me.
Your lies are!



oh yeah, for those of who really know me, you know why this is so upsetting, for the rest of you, I just do not care.

Whoopass, Thank you for trying to be a voice of reason, I can totally accept that!

Mods, sorry for being such pain, but I am trying my best to keep in check!

[Bob Hubbard]

Gentlemen,
I'm uncertain what past events caused the obvious bad blood here. In any event, it is best settled off board.

Warnings were issued and ignored and this looks like it will only get worse.

Therefore, this thread is closed.

Dan Anderson, I do not know if you got your information, but we will leave this thread visible so that all parties can get in touch if need be.


sigh.