Fyi

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Military Arnis at NROTC Norwich University

On April 29, 2003, the leadership team at NROTC Norwich University paid tribute to Colonel Mark Costa, United States Marine Corps in their demonstration of Military Arnis, the art of Professor Lisa McManus and a division of Modern Arnis. Colonel Costa, Commanding Officer at NROTC and a 30-year United States Marine, retired that day, leaving behind a legacy of leadership and enthusiasm that will long be reflected in the students he empowered during his command at NROTC. Colonel Costa, with his wisdom and leadership ability, is representative of the true martial spirit and our code: "Honor, Courage and Commitment to Others".

Military Arnis was developed by Professor McManus in 1999 with the blessing of the late Grandmaster Remy Presas, founder of Modern Arnis. Military Arnis was specifically designed by McManus to meet the needs of our United States Military teaching leadership and communication skills in addition to combative techniques from Modern Arnis, Small Circle Jujitsu, Wing Chun and Judo. Grandmaster Presas was thrilled to know that his art would be a valuable part of training the United States Military through the efforts of McManus. Military Arnis, the art of Professor McManus, is recognized as a division of the IMAF; therefore, the students are acknowledged by Grandmaster Delaney and the IMAF Board of Directors.

Mr. Ryan Mount, Mr. Kevin Wong, Mr. Stephen Johnson and Mr. Ross Abramowitz trained with Professor McManus beginning in the freshman year at NROTC Norwich University; now three years later, they are the first brown belts in the style. "Our standards are very high. The students in our program must first distinguish themselves as leaders in addition to mastering the martial skills of our Art in order to qualify for testing. Mr. Mount, Mr. Wong, Mr. Johnson and Mr. Abramowitz trained diligently for 3 years and surpassed our expectations. They raised the bar for the entire Command," reported a very proud McManus.

At the April 29th ceremony, Professor Mcmanus was recognized for her contributions to the development to the students at NROTC as leaders and awarded a plaque by the Commanding Officer NROTC Norwich University, Colonel Mark A. Costa, United States Marine Corps. "Honor, courage and commitment to others"

[The Mist]

I supspect you were just tossing that one out into the Lions den to see if anyone poked at the carcass? Was your point that you find it amazing how people try and rewrite history to suit there own personal agenda? I am only guessing of course!

:eek:

[moromoro]

sorry i had to comment.

coudnt they find anybody in modern arniis better than miss McManus. is she a professor of teaching???????


thank you

terry

[thekuntawman]

Originally posted by Renegade
Military Arnis at NROTC Norwich University


Military Arnis was developed by Professor McManus in 1999 with the blessing of the late Grandmaster Remy Presas, founder of Modern Arnis.

WHAT???? in 1999 she was a brown belter!!!:confused:

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by Renegade
Military Arnis at NROTC Norwich University

Military Arnis was developed by Professor McManus in 1999 with the blessing of the late Grandmaster Remy Presas, founder of Modern Arnis. Military Arnis was specifically designed by McManus to meet the needs of our United States Military teaching leadership and communication skills in addition to combative techniques from Modern Arnis, Small Circle Jujitsu, Wing Chun and Judo. Grandmaster Presas was thrilled to know that his art would be a valuable part of training the United States Military through the efforts of McManus. Military Arnis, the art of Professor McManus, is recognized as a division of the IMAF; therefore, the students are acknowledged by Grandmaster Delaney and the IMAF Board of Directors.



Eeeeeyyaaaauuuuggghhhhhhhhh!

After the hosing over I took for using the title Professor, I have to read this? I was a 6th degree for 7 years when she was a brown belt!?!

Man, somebody owes me an apology or at least a few beers.

Terry,
Go pick on Lisa and Jeff.

Yours,
(The highly disputed) Professor Dan Anderson

[bloodwood]

Military Arnis, the art of Professor McManus, is recognized as a division of the IMAF;

I guess she took ALL her years of military training and ALL her years of combat Modern Arnis to develop Military Arnis.

And all these years we've been kept in the dark about this awesome subsystem of Modern Arnis. I feel cheated. Maybe she'll write a book then that way we can get caught up in about 10 minutes or so.

Military Arnis my ass!!!
:tank: :moon:

[arnisador]

Originally posted by bloodwood
Military Arnis

How long was she in the military? In which branch?

[The Mist]

Dan no one owes you an apology. You are a world class and well respected martial artist. Having said that, you have been there and done that and should know better than to try and take the "Professor" title. She does teach at that acadamy... and her credentials are greatly exaggerated, which most of the community of Arnis People are aware of. You are not going to see a long list of people trying to talk her out of it. Because it would fall on deaf ears. The people "in the know" know what is going on over there and have to sit and stew because they can do nothing to control it. I am sure Mr Hartman just brought it to our attention, in case anyone heard about it second hand. Kind of a heads up, and take a look at this tomfoolery. So to speak. So, yes, you are right to get your ire up... but, it shouldn't be at us... it should be directed toward the Delaney camp. Things like this are part of the reason there is a rift in the IMAF. I don't represent that group so it is only speculation. Mr. Anderson you did the right thing by renouncing the Professor title. One could only hope she had the sense to do this also. But, don't hold your breath. Maybe she is sticking with the definition of "college" professor. But, knowing her... probably not.

:uhoh: :uhoh:

[arnisador]

Originally posted by The Mist
Maybe she is sticking with the definition of "college" professor.

I'm a college professor. Remy Presas would at times address me or introduce me as "Doctor" and allude to the fact that I was a teacher or (college) professor. He was also very pedantic in referring to Jordan Yee and Randi Schea as "doctor" (both are medical doctors). Prof. Presas had a great respect for education.

It would simply not occur to me to use my academic title of Professor in a martial arts context. It'd be like asking my college students to call me Guro. In fairness however, I must say that unlike other martial arts that use Professor as an official title (e.g. Kenpo) or award it to high-ranking practitioners as a sign of respect, Remy Presas was a physical education professor in the Philippines and this title followed him. In that regard one could argue that Ms. McManus is following a similar route. I would find such an argument disingenuous however because in the Modern Arnis world it is clear that the Professor was Remy Presas and thetitle came to refer to his knowledge of arnis, not his former occupation. For example, he gave out the title "junior professor" in Modern Arnis, which was not an academic title. It seems to me as though this use is meant to mislead people.

Has Ms. McManus been clear as to whether the professor title refers to her job or her position in Mr. Delaney's IMAF? Does she have a Professor title granted by Mr. Delaney?

[The Mist]

Arnisador (sp?) ... I agree... most of your post reflects what went on in a very big post that Dan Anderson started about himself.
I TOTALLY AGREE THAT THE TITLE OF PROFESSOR SHOULD NOT BE USED IN A MODERN ARNIS CONTEXT. :cool:

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by The Mist
1. Dan no one owes you an apology.
2. Mr. Anderson you did the right thing by renouncing the Professor title.
:uhoh: :uhoh:

1. I know. I'm having fun with the absurdity of it all.

2. At times I'm not so sure.

Over and out,

Dan Anderson

PS - Hey! I'm finally a Brown Belt poster.

[The Mist]

PS - Hey! I'm finally a Brown Belt poster.

I just made yellow belt, maybe I shouldn't be allowed to spar with you big boys. :)

[Guro Harold]

Military Arnis - I wonder how long before it becomes stand alone?

Watch out CQC(s)!!!

[Bob Hubbard]

What is her military qualifications?

Which theaters of combat did she see action in?

Which branch(s) did she serve with?


If the answers to these are : None, None, None then I have to wonder just what really is the true story here....

Too bad the JD camp is afraid to do much more than post 'atta boy' stories on their website and run ads in BlackBelt Mag.



:shrug:

[The Boar Man]

Reply to Kaith

I believe Mrs. McManus was in the Marines. FMA magazine had a cover article on her a few years ago and I believe she was in the Marines.

[moromoro]

Military Arnis

that name is down right disrespectful!
And unless she is a university educated professor that title used by her is very very disrespectful to me as a FMA practitioner.


thanks

terry

[moromoro]

the word disrespectful is too harsh,

i guess all you can do is sit back and laugh,

TO THINK THE MILITARY IS INVESTING ON HER, Thank god the war is over we might be ther longer if the troops are trained by her:rofl:


thanks

terry

[Tapps]

I have a good friend who is currently overseas with the US Army. He is a Black Belt under Tim Hartman and was training a batalion in hand to hand combat.

last time I talked to him he told me the army was very particular about what was taught. Even though his credentials got him the training assignment he has to follow a very strict army curriculum when training.

I find it hard to belive the Marines (or any other branch) operates differently. I belive it is likely "Military Arnis" has nothing to do (at least officially) with the armed forces.

Food for thought.

[Guro Harold]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Too bad the JD camp is afraid to do much more than post 'atta boy' stories on their website and run ads in BlackBelt Mag.


She writes most of the Camp Chronicles.

[bloodwood]

I believe her students are college ROTC.

[Matt Stone]

Just another case of someone trying to tag the word "military" onto their art in an effort to somehow cash in on the mystique of modern soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines and the relatively unknown and poorly understood lifestyle we lead...

I wonder what makes it "military," and how, specifically, swinging a stick at someone's head then tossing them a$$ over appetite helps in teaching military interpersonal communication and leadership skills... :rolleyes:

I've been in for 11 years now, ex-Drill Sergeant, ex-Infantry and Cavalry, and never once did anyone ever mistake trying to incapacitate or kill the enemy for an interpersonal communications class... :lol: Except maybe as a joke.

And just having had military service time (how long was she in, and what did she do while there?) doesn't make your martial art military, nor you a military martial arts instructor... :rolleyes:

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I think she was a marine photographer.

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Renegade
I think she was a marine photographer.

And as we all well know, those darn Marine Photographers are trained to take on and eliminate literally hundreds of enemy paparazzi with only the bare minimum of equipment...

Yeah, being a militar photojournalist is the epitome of combat training and experience... :rolleyes:

Whatever.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
And as we all well know, those darn Marine Photographers are trained to take on and eliminate literally hundreds of enemy paparazzi with only the bare minimum of equipment...

Yeah, being a militar photojournalist is the epitome of combat training and experience... :rolleyes:

Whatever.


Well let us assume she is a marine.

Then every Marine no matter the designation, I think that all marines have an infantry designation.

So, does anyone actualy know if she was truly in the Military?


:asian:

[Matt Stone]

Having a "designation" doesn't mean that the person in question actually does that kind of training on a regular basis... That is why they have their primary job skill - to do that job, not their additional "designation."

I am in the JAG Corps. I carry an infantry MOS as my secondary MOS, but the last time I saw a mortar was back in 1991... Since then, I've been doing my "real" job, being a paralegal.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[dearnis.com]

Yes, Lisa did serve in the Marine Corps.

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson
1. I know. I'm having fun with the absurdity of it all.

2. At times I'm not so sure.

Over and out,

Dan Anderson

PS - Hey! I'm finally a Brown Belt poster.

Ohhhh! Your a brown belt poster! Maybe you should get permision from Webmaster Bob Hubbard to start your own division of "Military Martial Talk." :p

Or better yet, just say something like "Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a talk forum for the military?" Then when Bob says "yes," then you go off and start your own division of 'military martial talk' and then just say you had the webmasters permission to do so. Yea, that's it.:rolleyes:

[The Mist]

That was Genius. Pure and simple.

[Bob Hubbard]

Works for me....

Now, if I can just get all you folks to send in your payments for all those MartialTalk belt promotions....



Supreme Grand Professor, Sensei-Soke, Ruler of the Dark Segment, and all around Hoopy Frood Kaith


:D

[Dan Anderson]

You forgot Darth Rustaz.

I am waiting to get my name back.

Yours,

[Bob Hubbard]

Yousa Senior Citisen Master JarJar Binks Anderson, Gungan K-Night!

:rofl:

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Having a "designation" doesn't mean that the person in question actually does that kind of training on a regular basis... That is why they have their primary job skill - to do that job, not their additional "designation."

I am in the JAG Corps. I carry an infantry MOS as my secondary MOS, but the last time I saw a mortar was back in 1991... Since then, I've been doing my "real" job, being a paralegal.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


Matt,

Thank you, I knew one of our Military Friends would step up and finish my thoughts.
:asian:

[Datu Tim Hartman]

What can I say? :deadhorse

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson
Eeeeeyyaaaauuuuggghhhhhhhhh!

After the hosing over I took for using the title Professor, I have to read this? I was a 6th degree for 7 years when she was a brown belt!?!

Man, somebody owes me an apology or at least a few beers.

Terry,
Go pick on Lisa and Jeff.

Yours,
(The highly disputed) Professor Dan Anderson

I am sure that Jeff Delaaney will be happy to pay for those beers!

Lamont

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by arnisador
I'm a college professor. Remy Presas would at times address me or introduce me as "Doctor" and allude to the fact that I was a teacher or (college) professor. He was also very pedantic in referring to Jordan Yee and Randi Schea as "doctor" (both are medical doctors). Prof. Presas had a great respect for education.

It would simply not occur to me to use my academic title of Professor in a martial arts context. It'd be like asking my college students to call me Guro. In fairness however, I must say that unlike other martial arts that use Professor as an official title (e.g. Kenpo) or award it to high-ranking practitioners as a sign of respect, Remy Presas was a physical education professor in the Philippines and this title followed him. In that regard one could argue that Ms. McManus is following a similar route. I would find such an argument disingenuous however because in the Modern Arnis world it is clear that the Professor was Remy Presas and thetitle came to refer to his knowledge of arnis, not his former occupation. For example, he gave out the title "junior professor" in Modern Arnis, which was not an academic title. It seems to me as though this use is meant to mislead people.

Has Ms. McManus been clear as to whether the professor title refers to her job or her position in Mr. Delaney's IMAF? Does she have a Professor title granted by Mr. Delaney?

You are certinly in the correct church, but perhaps not the correct pew, Arnisador! Has ANYONE thought to write to the VP for Academic Affairs at Norwich University to inquiry as to Ms. McManus' status as a member of the teaching faculty, if any. Has anyone asked whether she is employed on a full or part-time basis and in what department? Then it would also be necessary to find out if is employed full or part-time by the NROTC Unit at Norwich University. Ususally the ROTC Units at most colleges are an adjunct program with seperate hiring policies and personnel.
(Hint, hint, hint)

Do your homework and then compare your data with mine. The the truth shall be known. It is there if you ask the right questions of the right people.

Lamont

[arnisador]

Originally posted by norshadow1
Ususally the ROTC Units at most colleges are an adjunct program with seperate hiring policies and personnel.
(Hint, hint, hint)

Norwich may be exceptional w.r.t. its ROTC units but generally some of the ROTC staff are given professorial titles and considered part of the faculty; others may be given instructorships or no titles. Only the school could give an academic title.

I check into this some time back but haven't checked again recently.

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by The Boar Man
Reply to Kaith

I believe Mrs. McManus was in the Marines. FMA magazine had a cover article on her a few years ago and I believe she was in the Marines.

You are correct. I remembered the issue and re-read it last night when I first saw the Hartman post that started this thread. We have to give here credit where it is due, but no one has to accept BS when it comes to "Military Arnis". As I remember several interviews with the late Professor, he taught military and special police units in the Philippines before his exile to the USA. There is also the small matter of his brother Ernesto, also teaching military and police in the Philippines the "Presas Family Style of Arnis". There is also the small but important matter of their father Jose Presas, who taught Filipino military units during and after WWII.

So what is new and unique with regard Ms. McManus' Arnis program at the NROTC Unit at Norwich University? I would need convincing that she has anything new to offer. Her very short training time in Modern Arnis and her extremely rapid rise to 5th degree, plus the "professor" title, just leave me a little bit suspect of her true qualifications to author a NEW method.

Lamont

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by arnisador
Norwich may be exceptional w.r.t. its ROTC units but generally some of the ROTC staff are given professorial titles and considered part of the faculty; others may be given instructorships or no titles. Only the school could give an academic title.

I check into this some time back but haven't checked again recently.

Point well taken, Arnisador, and exactly why I noted that ROTC Programs *are usually* adjunct. Also why I suggested contacting the VP for Academic Affairs. All of the criticqal questions will be answerd there... hint...

Lamont

[twinkletoes]

Man, I'm going to be teaching a self-defense class through Wesleyan's Phys ed department. Maybe I should start being "Professor Twinkletoes."

And maybe if I teach some Arnis in the class I could start asking all the other Modern Arnis black belts (pretty much all of whom outrank me) to start calling me "Professor" too. That would be great!

~Twinkletoes

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by twinkletoes
Man, I'm going to be teaching a self-defense class through Wesleyan's Phys ed department. Maybe I should start being "Professor Twinkletoes."

And maybe if I teach some Arnis in the class I could start asking all the other Modern Arnis black belts (pretty much all of whom outrank me) to start calling me "Professor" too. That would be great!

~Twinkletoes

Well bless my soul, "Professor Twinkletoes", we do need to do some talking - is your self defense class going to be a credit program or a club program? Drop me a line or two. BTW are you going to attend the Sympsoium next month? I would love to have an opportunity to discuss your ideas about running a college based program.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

[twinkletoes]

Alas, no $$$ for the symposium, but I think it's an awesome idea. Best of luck, and I hope it does well enough that there will be a next year for me to attend.

DoctorB, you have mail. I currently run a BJJ club, but this class will be a for-credit 6 1/2 week course (they operate on a quarters system rather than semesters). I am psyched!

~TT

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by twinkletoes
Alas, no $$$ for the symposium, but I think it's an awesome idea. Best of luck, and I hope it does well enough that there will be a next year for me to attend.

DoctorB, you have mail. I currently run a BJJ club, but this class will be a for-credit 6 1/2 week course (they operate on a quarters system rather than semesters). I am psyched!

~TT

Thanks for the info. Sent you a private e-mail with some more information.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.