Less worryed to fight martial artist then street fighter.

[J-kid]

I personal find it easyer to fighter a Martial Artist then A street punk most of the time.

I mean even though i could destroy the street punk faster *i mean Fast* you never have any idea what they might do and if you will end up seriously hurting them or there crazy flaling will get you.

Where if i find out someone is a martial artist i have a pritty good idea on what to expect infact i find that there are so many bad schools that you end up fighting some joker whos been mind washed and fights like a fool droping there hands chambering there punchs using horse stance and using blocks to no effect.

Dos anyone else feel this way from time to time.
:samurai:

[KenpoDragon]

Judo-kid, but I worry more about guys like me with a lot of training and street fighting experience. Those are the REAL dangerous guys out there, the guys that know what to do, and what not to do. I don't worry too much about Joe Blow out there with no martial arts training, because most of the time they have no idea how to fight. At least guys that train in martial arts have some idea of what might happen in a fight. Just my opinion though.

:asian:

[J-kid]

That is true, but i can almost expect what the martial artist *knowing there style* a little of there game plan not only can you get in there head but you know there weakness as well.

[KenpoDragon]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
That is true, but i can almost expect what the martial artist *knowing there style* a little of there game plan not only can you get in there head but you know there weakness as well. Are you talking about tournament sparring??? I thought you were talking about street fighting. When I get in a fight I don't say,"What's your style???" like in Enter the Dragon, I also don't tell people that I have black belts in this style, and in that style,etc.etc. Are you psychic Judo-kid??? How do you get all of this knowledge before a fight??? You must be a X-Man huh???? Just messing with you, hehehe!!!

:asian:

[Matt Stone]

How is it you are able to "destroy" someone so quickly? What methods do you use that are so much different from anyone else?

If you are counting some of the local folks (i.e. Temple Kung Fu, most of the TKD folks, etc.) in your list of martial artists that you are able to "destroy" so quickly, I'd hesitate to announce that since it doesn't really make you all that impressive... My son is only 7, and I've seen some local folks that he could probably teach a thing or two to...

As for the comment about horse riding stances, punching while withdrawing the non-striking hand, and blocking, remember that your experience with traditional arts is limited to the low quality mini-mall dojos that we all revile...

Again, if you want to see what those traditional methods are really used for, just let me know...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[J-kid]

To kenpodragon
Well i get a pritty good idea what style of a fighter he is pritty fast before and during the fight.
Sometimes i try to play mind games before the fight with them as they will proble do with me (exchanging insaults and then saying why one will win blah blah blah).

To Yiliquan
LOL temple Kungfu (another joke)

anyhow are training may be diffrent but at least we both have a sense of humor.

[KanoLives]

Aren't we as martial artist not supposed to fight each other regardless of what style we study? Isn't there supposed to be a respect thing? I know I don't go lookin to fight and if you study a martial art I don't think you should be looking to fight either. :shrug: If 2 martial artist were ready to fight shouldn't they be trying to avoid the fight in the first place? :confused: :confused:

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
I personal find it easyer to fighter a Martial Artist then A street punk most of the time.

I mean even though i could destroy the street punk faster *i mean Fast* you never have any idea what they might do and if you will end up seriously hurting them or there crazy flaling will get you.

Where if i find out someone is a martial artist i have a pritty good idea on what to expect infact i find that there are so many bad schools that you end up fighting some joker whos been mind washed and fights like a fool droping there hands chambering there punchs using horse stance and using blocks to no effect.

Dos anyone else feel this way from time to time.
:samurai:
Agreed!

Bad schools - :rofl:

I do find it easier to fight a martial artist than a street fighter most of the time. I'm not talking about the good martial artists, but the 2-day-a-week training badass with a black belt and deep pockets. With the common thug, yes, a lot of the times, it's easier to defend yourself if you got in a controlled fight, but there are too many unpredictable factors that might happen. Aluminum bats are one of them. Knives. Etc. That's why I avoid fights WHENEVER possible. I walk away. People really need to learn how to swallow their pride and walk away, as most fights in the world aren't self-defense situations, but over something stupid. Anyway, I carry a handgun. If I were 18 again, and in high school, I would've fought every person who pissed me off, and that's what I did when I was 18, that was my mindset. Bringing a weapon to a fist fight? That's cowardly. But a schoolyard fight is different on the streets, you never know what you are getting yourself into. I can't take the risk of fighting hand-to-hand and something radical happening when MY life and others are at stake. Just like how I won't trust my life with a car where the brakes work 99% of the time, I won't take any risks.

[MartialArtist]

I understand what judo-kid is trying to say. He isn't talking about traditional martial artists, but how some people from commercialized schools think that some of the things they do during training is for combat purposes, not realizing they were meant for different purposes.

Like someone who busts out a 1020 spinning aerial spin kick during a street fight, not knowing the only reason they are practiced by some is for balance, flexibility, agility, speed, coordination, etc. and not for a KO move. Of course, any good TMAist or MMAist knows that a 1020 kick wasn't intended to be used for self-defense purposes.


---------------------------------------------

And yes, I would rather defend myself against a watered-down martial artist than a thug. If it were a hand-to-hand combat situation, I would rather fight a thug than a very experienced martial artist. However, on the street, the word hand-to-hand combat doesn't exist. A real martial artist would know when to stop, know what's right and wrong, etc. A thug however, has no remorse, and would do anything to hurt/kill you.

The difference in mentality between a martial artist and a thug are totally different. Yes, both would do anything they can to win. However, "win" is a relative term. The definition of win for a martial artist would be successfully defending himself/herself and others who are in peril. Maiming or killing a person is something that might resukt in the process of defending yourself. A martial artist wouldn't kick a person who's down and can't move and snap his neck like in the Segal movies, as you have already met your goal yet go on to do something more. "Win" for a thug might very well be to kill you.

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by ChineseKempoAL
Aren't we as martial artist not supposed to fight each other regardless of what style we study? Isn't there supposed to be a respect thing? I know I don't go lookin to fight and if you study a martial art I don't think you should be looking to fight either. :shrug: If 2 martial artist were ready to fight shouldn't they be trying to avoid the fight in the first place? :confused: :confused:
Yes, two real martial artists wouldn't get into a fight. Unfortunately, there are people who call themselves martial artists who fight every chance they get :cough: :cough:

Then there are others like me who have a very big mouth. But I do avoid fights whenever possible. I never fight for reasons of ego or of arrogance. But on the other side of the coin, there are people who throw a punch whenever they get mad and call themselves MAists.


Judo-kid, if a word ends with "y", most of the time, you take the "y" out and add "ied"

[Jill666]

If I can run, I'll run. If I can strike to the throat, eyes, groin or bite, I will. Then I'll run. If someone tries to take me on the street, my plan is simple. Fight fast and dirty, and get the hell away. Call 911. Period.

My training partner was recently attacked by a drunk guy- hell they were both drunk. The guy hit him by surprize with a head-butt, then locked up with him. My friend, a wrestler, ex-marine, bb kenpoist didn't try to out fight him. He dug a thumb in the guy's eyeball, then went home. In the morning he filed a police report.

As far as I'm concerned, he handled himself perfectly- with the exception of being piss-drunk and letting someone surprise him like that.

No matter who attacks, trained or untrained, I'm not gonna try to go toe-to-toe, or figure out his game plan, and test my skills as a fighter. That's complete BS. :shrug:

[chufeng]

Anyone who attacks a limping, fat, old, balding guy like me, deserves to get his ass handed to him...and I won't announce ahead of time how I'm gonna do it...fortunately, I haven't had to go there...with age comes the ability to recognize and avoid certain situations.

:asian:
chufeng

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
I personal find it easyer to fighter a Martial Artist then A street punk most of the time.

I mean even though i could destroy the street punk faster *i mean Fast* you never have any idea what they might do and if you will end up seriously hurting them or there crazy flaling will get you.

Where if i find out someone is a martial artist i have a pritty good idea on what to expect infact i find that there are so many bad schools that you end up fighting some joker whos been mind washed and fights like a fool droping there hands chambering there punchs using horse stance and using blocks to no effect.

Dos anyone else feel this way from time to time.
:samurai:

Don't generalize nor assume too much.

[J-kid]

I think martial artist is understand what i am trying to say the most.

:cool:

[MartialArtist]

Judo-kid does have some prejudice against TMAists, mostly because he has never seen any good TMAists although there are a lot of them out there, you just got to know where you have to look.

Judo-kid specifically stated about the BAD TMA schools where people don't teach you how to defend yourself but ONLY doing horse stances and forms.

Forms aren't bad. When used correctly, can be a good tool. The horse stance is also a good training tool. But to only practice those would be dangerous.

Same thing applies to MMA, I have also seen a ton of BAD MMA schools out there. They think by attaching "Gracie" or "Vale Tudo" or "Shoto" to their club means something, and all they teach is how to do some basic grappling sets. No teachings on set-ups, no teachings on the principles of submissions and the general idea behind all of them. Just one or two chokes, some basic elementary wrestling moves that a five year old can do, and lots of cash.

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
I think martial artist is understand what i am trying to say the most.

No, actually, I really do understand what you are trying to say, but I have a reason for attempting to draw specific details out of you... I'm not setting you up for ambush nor failure, nor will I hang you with your own words. I'll save that for other folks at later times... :D

Since you have had only minimal training with good TMA traditions, and since your schedule and personal situations have prevented you from visiting us, the next best thing is MT.

So, again, in what particulars (beyond horse stance and retracting the non-striking hand) do you feel TMA training is not conducive to good fighting technique? Please compare and contrast against the training you have had...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[redfang]

Many of the replies that I read threw out terms like 'street punk' and 'street thug' in a fashion that sounded reminiscent of the low level baddies in a comic book: weak, ineffective, obvious, dull, slow, telegraphing etc. The reality is that many people who might be termed 'street fighters' live in a reality where violence is commonplace and fighting is a legitimate way to settle a grievance. When people survive for any length of time in such such surroundings, they tend to become efficient, tough fighters with a repetoire of albeit simple but effective methods and plenty of dirty tricks. Don't denigrate or underestimate the street fighter. Don't believe the myth of the slobbering drunk whose momentum might knock them down before you can unleash martial fury on them. Don't believe that just because someone may not have had formal training, that they can't be a formidible opponent. Many fine martial artists have come from the ranks of 'street fighters'.

:jediduel:

[Matt Stone]

I think some definition of what constitutes "street fighting" would be appropriate...

If a person whose daily life depends on their ability to make use of personal combat to survive, then certainly they will develop a level of skill - or not. In the latter case, they simply aren't around anymore to worry about it.

However, I think the innate difference between "street fighting" and martial arts is the amount of dirty tricks in a person's arsenal, and the amount of repetition of techniques, and the amount of training put into developing fighting techniques.

At some point the person goes beyond fighting simply for survival's sake and moves from that category into fighting for the development of skill.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[sweeper]

as too "martial artists" who think they are good but are not.. there seem to be quite a few.

Most of my freinds have spent a couple years training in smoe martial art or other, and now and then I end up sparring with one of them.. genneraly they realy don't know what they are doing. I mean it's not like I'm an expert, but I think alot of people out there do have a falce sence of security based on a couple of years of karate practice.

[J-kid]

I am also discussing the same topic at http://www.bullshido.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3770&FORUM_ID=2&CAT_ID=8&Forum_Title=General+Discussion&Topic_Title=Less+worryed+to+fight+martial+artist+t hen+street+f

There are alot of diffrent veiws i have seen and alot are true to some point. Check out what they had to say on the same topic there are alot more posts on it.

[Matt Stone]

I'll certainly look into what is being said on that other board, however I am looking to hear what you have to say on the issue...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
I'll certainly look into what is being said on that other board, however I am looking to hear what you have to say on the issue...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

Definitely ... but you should read his link anyway, it's pretty
damned f unny!

[bob919]

Originally posted by Jill666

My training partner was recently attacked by a drunk guy- hell they were both drunk. The guy hit him by surprize with a head-butt, then locked up with him. My friend, a wrestler, ex-marine, bb kenpoist didn't try to out fight him. He dug a thumb in the guy's eyeball, then went home. In the morning he filed a police report.

As far as I'm concerned, he handled himself perfectly- with the exception of being piss-drunk and letting someone surprise him like that.

[/B]

the other guy could be blinded for life over a drunken brawl, your friend was too vicsious his life was hardly in danger but digging a thumb into an eyeball is one of those hings that should only be used if your life is in danger which his was not

[bob919]

Originally posted by redfang
Many of the replies that I read threw out terms like 'street punk' and 'street thug' in a fashion that sounded reminiscent of the low level baddies in a comic book: weak, ineffective, obvious, dull, slow, telegraphing etc. The reality is that many people who might be termed 'street fighters' live in a reality where violence is commonplace and fighting is a legitimate way to settle a grievance. When people survive for any length of time in such such surroundings, they tend to become efficient, tough fighters with a repetoire of albeit simple but effective methods and plenty of dirty tricks. Don't denigrate or underestimate the street fighter. Don't believe the myth of the slobbering drunk whose momentum might knock them down before you can unleash martial fury on them. Don't believe that just because someone may not have had formal training, that they can't be a formidible opponent. Many fine martial artists have come from the ranks of 'street fighters'.

:jediduel:

amen brother i basically trianed myself but i am damn good (modest too)

[Jill666]

Originally posted by bob919
your friend was too vicsious his life was hardly in danger

How would he know that? A stranger has just attacked him. I stand by my statement.

[soccer50]

When Fighting a some foo on the street, you dont know how many fights hes gotten into, what he can do, or the way he fights. The only thing to expect is a barrage of punches.

While fighting a martial artist, depending on what system your challeging,and even though people have different strategies youll have a vague idea of what to expect. you know that MAist have control.

But since the nature of street fighting is so violent, you'll stand a better chance fighting MAist than street fighters. Although MA has lots of techniques, the oppurtunity to apply those techniques are low

[soccer50]

this thread was meant as a reply to "Less worryed to fight martial artist then street fighter. ", i clicked the wrong button...please disable this admins. thanks

[soccer50]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
I personal find it easyer to fighter a Martial Artist then A street punk most of the time.

I mean even though i could destroy the street punk faster *i mean Fast* you never have any idea what they might do and if you will end up seriously hurting them or there crazy flaling will get you.

Where if i find out someone is a martial artist i have a pritty good idea on what to expect infact i find that there are so many bad schools that you end up fighting some joker whos been mind washed and fights like a fool droping there hands chambering there punchs using horse stance and using blocks to no effect.

Dos anyone else feel this way from time to time.
:samurai:

On the contrary
When Fighting a someone on the street, you dont know how many fights hes gotten into, what he can do, or the way he fights. The only thing to expect is a barrage of punches.

While fighting a martial artist, depending on what system your challeging,and even though people have different strategies youll have a vague idea of what to expect. you know that MAist have control.

But since the nature of street fighting is so violent, you'll stand a better chance fighting MAist than street fighters. Although MA has lots of techniques, the oppurtunity to apply those techniques are low

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
I am also discussing the same topic at http://www.bullshido.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3770&FORUM_ID=2&CAT_ID=8&Forum_Title=General+Discussion&Topic_Title=Less+worryed+to+fight+martial+artist+t hen+street+f

There are alot of diffrent veiws i have seen and alot are true to some point. Check out what they had to say on the same topic there are alot more posts on it.
If you remember, I was also a member there... Until I got fed up with the 10-year old kids who thought they were invincible after some MMA training.

The forum is basically TMA bashing based on a lot of people's limited experience. The website itself is pretty funny however.

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by soccer50
Although MA has lots of techniques, the oppurtunity to apply those techniques are low
What are you talking about?

You don't seem to understand, you apply certain techniques to the situation. Once you become proficient, you naturally apply the move that comes to you, and don't talk about how this move is for this situation, while this move is for that situation. That rarely works in a street fight, most of it is instinctive and reflexive. You don't think about it, it just comes to you. You transaction from one thing to another, it's not whether the oppourtunity to apply X technique for X situation.

Some moves were designed for that purpose, but those are rarely used in combat. Simpler moves can be applied to almost any situation.

Another thing, what makes a very skilled fighter is that HE CONTROLS the situation and OPENS UP oppurtunities himself.

[KenpoDragon]

Originally posted by soccer50
[QUOTE]On the contrary
When Fighting a someone on the street, you dont know how many fights hes gotten into, what he can do, or the way he fights. The only thing to expect is a barrage of punches. This is true with any fighter, not just "street fighters". I've never been in a fight, where the guy said hi, my name is blah blah, and I've been in x amount of fights, and I'm going to use this style on you o.k??? Give me a break!!!


While fighting a martial artist, depending on what system your challeging,and even though people have different strategies youll have a vague idea of what to expect. you know that MAist have control. Please state for everyone exactly how many fights that you have been in against "street fighters" , and against "martial artists" outside of the dojo or tournaments, because those don't apply to the street situations.


But since the nature of street fighting is so violent, you'll stand a better chance fighting MAist than street fighters. Although MA has lots of techniques, the oppurtunity to apply those techniques are low I'M SORRY BUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPLY YOUR TECHNIQUES ARE LOW??? What style do you study that "your" ability to apply your techniques is low??? I've used my training for over a decade and haven't lost a fight, against guys a lot bigger and stronger than me. How did I win, technique, skill over strength, knowledge over power.Oh and by the way ALL fights are violent, I would much rather fight a street fighter who might hit me a couple of times, but wouldn't take my eye out, like Jill666's friend would. I've never been in a fight where the guy said what technique he was going to use on me. Telegraphing is one thing, but a detailed attack sequence, really now who are you guys kidding!!! REAL martial arts fighters are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!!!. I honestly hope that you and Judo-kid don't have to face one of us in your lifetime, we don't play nice, and THERE ARE NO RULES!!!

:asian: KenpoDragon

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by KenpoDragon
This is true with any fighter, not just "street fighters". I've never been in a fight, where the guy said hi, my name is blah blah, and I've been in x amount of fights, and I'm going to use this style on you o.k??? Give me a break!!!

Please state for everyone exactly how many fights that you have been in against "street fighters" , and against "martial artists" outside of the dojo or tournaments, because those don't apply to the street situations.

I'M SORRY BUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPLY YOUR TECHNIQUES ARE LOW??? What style do you study that "your" ability to apply your techniques is low??? I've used my training for over a decade and haven't lost a fight, against guys a lot bigger and stronger than me. How did I win, technique, skill over strength, knowledge over power.Oh and by the way ALL fights are violent, I would much rather fight a street fighter who might hit me a couple of times, but wouldn't take my eye out, like Jill666's friend would. I've never been in a fight where the guy said what technique he was going to use on me. Telegraphing is one thing, but a detailed attack sequence, really now who are you guys kidding!!! REAL martial arts fighters are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!!!. I honestly hope that you and Judo-kid don't have to face one of us in your lifetime, we don't play nice, and THERE ARE NO RULES!!!

:asian: KenpoDragon
You won with channeling your chi/ki and flying in the air throwing ninja stars.

Yes, I agree with you.

I can jab anyone in most situations. I can't do a 540 roundhouse in most situations. If I wanted to do a 540, I would have to set it up. It's like in wrestling, you can't shoot without setting up. If you won't change the sitaution to your liking, then you're pretty much stuck and then you wouldn't be apply the technique of course, but that's elementary, a 6 year old wrestler knows how to set things up. But again, this is a hypothetical situation, I probably wouldn't use a 540 roundhouse unless I wanted to show off KO move - which means rarely.

[believer]

let me tell you guys this story and hopefully it will clear things up. Many of you will probably not believe my story, because you think that just because you are martial artists you can defeat anybody in a fist fight. But, i will say my story anyway and it is VERY, VERY true.

Im just starting college and have recently been interested in
tae-kwon-do. Ive just started a month ago. My instructor is a man from Korea who is considered probably the best instuctor in my region. You do not wanna mess with this guy!!!! In this class we do FULL contact sparring. My instructor has kind of has a sick way of pitting the higher ranked people against a lower ranked person such as me (still white belt).

Before tae-kwon-do I had a lot of wrestling experience in high school, and have also researched greek and russian styles of wrestiling and practiced and honed my skills of wrestling at home. After about a week, my instructor pit me against a brown belt who was about to recieve his 1st degree black belt. Why he did this??? I dont know. Keep in mind this is a very tough instuctor so a brown belt in his class is very skilled. He was about my age and my weight, (i might have been just a little heavier). Have you ever felt a Side kick in FULL contact sparring?! Even with the gear, it hurts, bad!!! Have you ever felt it multiple times??!! I guarantee you that you have a lot to be afraid of when fighting a martial artist. And I have never felt such pain in my entire life.

BUT...... somthing else happened. Using what I've learned from wrestling, I grappled him and put him into a lock in a way where he could barely move his body, then I put pressure on his arm in such a way where i could break it if i wanted to, i learned this from wrestling. My point, without hardly any tae-kwon-do experience I successfully defeated a very skilled martial artist. My instuctor got so mad at me for using what he considered a barbaric technique (y? cause it doesnt look pretty?), and told me never to fight like that again.

There is no doubt in my mind that martial artists are very very dangerous, but they arent invlunerable. Am I more afraid of a martial artist then a street fighter?? I dont know. Many of you probably dont consider wrestling a martial art, so ill just pretend it is not, and say that it is possible to defeat a martial artist without martial arts. And that a street fighter is just as dangerous.

(ps. i am still taking tae-kwon-do in the same class)

[KenpoDragon]

You said it yourself, you had prior wrestling training. Even though some people may not view wrestling as a martial art, I do. Wrestling teaches throws, hold downs, or pins, and some locks. This is similar to Jujutsu or Hapkido, or Judo. Although a watered down version, still effective against some styles. If you care to research the true backrounds of wrestling you will find some interesting stuff. Wrestling may very well be the oldest of the martial arts. After all even a kid with no training, can still tackle you and try and put you on your back. Trust me, my niece does it all the time to me, she starts to run at me from about 10 feet away and just slams into me. Doesn't put me down, because I'm a lot bigger than her, but it probably would put a kid her size down. Wrestling use to be a very vicious art, many opponent's would end up crippled or dead. Do some research and you'll have a better idea of what I mean.

:asian:

[Marginal]

Originally posted by bob919
the other guy could be blinded for life over a drunken brawl, your friend was too vicsious his life was hardly in danger but digging a thumb into an eyeball is one of those hings that should only be used if your life is in danger which his was not

Well, the real Bullshido(tm) answer would be of course, that eye gouging doesn't work at all and that this never happened because eye gouging doesn't ever work. ;)

(I don't beleive this personally, but I can't resist poking fun at the questionable power of the MMA fanboy's unshakable circular reasoning.)

[arnisador]

Originally posted by soccer50
this thread was meant as a reply to "Less worryed to fight martial artist then street fighter. ", i clicked the wrong button...please disable this admins. thanks

Threads merged.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by believer
let me tell you guys this story and hopefully it will clear things up. Many of you will probably not believe my story, because you think that just because you are martial artists you can defeat anybody in a fist fight. But, i will say my story anyway and it is VERY, VERY true.

Im just starting college and have recently been interested in
tae-kwon-do. Ive just started a month ago. My instructor is a man from Korea who is considered probably the best instuctor in my region. You do not wanna mess with this guy!!!! In this class we do FULL contact sparring. My instructor has kind of has a sick way of pitting the higher ranked people against a lower ranked person such as me (still white belt).

Before tae-kwon-do I had a lot of wrestling experience in high school, and have also researched greek and russian styles of wrestiling and practiced and honed my skills of wrestling at home. After about a week, my instructor pit me against a brown belt who was about to recieve his 1st degree black belt. Why he did this??? I dont know. Keep in mind this is a very tough instuctor so a brown belt in his class is very skilled. He was about my age and my weight, (i might have been just a little heavier). Have you ever felt a Side kick in FULL contact sparring?! Even with the gear, it hurts, bad!!! Have you ever felt it multiple times??!! I guarantee you that you have a lot to be afraid of when fighting a martial artist. And I have never felt such pain in my entire life.

BUT...... somthing else happened. Using what I've learned from wrestling, I grappled him and put him into a lock in a way where he could barely move his body, then I put pressure on his arm in such a way where i could break it if i wanted to, i learned this from wrestling. My point, without hardly any tae-kwon-do experience I successfully defeated a very skilled martial artist. My instuctor got so mad at me for using what he considered a barbaric technique (y? cause it doesnt look pretty?), and told me never to fight like that again.

There is no doubt in my mind that martial artists are very very dangerous, but they arent invlunerable. Am I more afraid of a martial artist then a street fighter?? I dont know. Many of you probably dont consider wrestling a martial art, so ill just pretend it is not, and say that it is possible to defeat a martial artist without martial arts. And that a street fighter is just as dangerous.

(ps. i am still taking tae-kwon-do in the same class)
Whoever said wrestling wasn't a martial art needs to get his head knocked in.

ROFL at the "didn't look pretty", I've seen a lot of instructors like that. However, my instructors had no pity when they put people in choke holds and submission moves, and that was TKD.

[J-kid]

I believe that you could proble take your instructer with wrestling.

Who cares if its pritty or not just as long as it get the job done.

[soccer50]

From the replys to my post, I just realized I misunderstood the original thread. I thought Judo-Kid was refering to a MA match with rules as opposed to all out street fighting. As for the techniques, I was refering to the if/then techniques. Not Kicking or punching techniques.

[believer]

l've just recently been interested in Asian Martial Arts. I dont know much about Eastern Wrestling, most wrestling I learned is of the West (mostly studied ones of Greek, German, or slavic Origins, high school wrestling i believe is a fusion of many western wrestling styles, i could be wrong), is it just as old as kungfu?? Can someone tell me the difference between eastern and western wrestling???

as for defeating my instructor, i seriously doubt i can. he is much older and very skilled in his art

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by believer
l've just recently been interested in Asian Martial Arts. I dont know much about Eastern Wrestling, most wrestling I learned is of the West (mostly studied ones of Greek, German, or slavic Origins), is it just as old as kungfu?? Can someone tell me the difference between eastern and western wrestling???

as for defeating my instructor, i seriously doubt i can.
There's not a whole lot of a difference.

You have to understand, that there is no such thing as just "Asian" wrestling and "Western" wrestling. For instance, I wouldn't consider Russian wrestling in the same category as Swiss wrestling, etc. Basically, ALL wrestling systems are based on the same principles, just have their own unique twists. There's the many types of Mongolian wrestling which can be compared with catch-as-catch can, there's Korean wrestling which is very similiar to freestyle, shuai chiao which emphasizes a bit more on speed. These are all general terms, and it wouldn't do justice but usually, it fits.

One thing I can tell you is that some western wrestling styles focus a bit more on double-leg takedowns while Eastern styles tend to throw, like locks, joint manipulation, single legs, trips, etc. That is very broad and not specific. And those differences are VERY minute, and the emphasis isn't that much of a difference. It's not like the western wrestling systems don't throw, or that the eastern styles don't do double legs.

A guy once pointed out that the stance was the biggest difference. The stance is not dependent on the style, but by the person. I personally liked the Russian stance, as it suited me best.

[believer]

its funny that there isnt a lot of difference. Because at the time the western cultures started developing wrestling before they had any contact with eastern cultures (I cant say when Asians had wrestling, cause i dont know). Its amazing how two cultures so isolated from each other can think alike in that sense.

Ive just recently heard of mongolian wrestling. Mongolians took almost all of eastern europe much after europeans had wrestling. was mongolian wrestling influenced by the west??

bleh, to keep the reply on focus to the topic, i still am not sure if a martial artist is any more deadly then a street fighter, but this is my opinion, and is not valid in any way

[fringe_dweller]

This has probably been mentioned before, but just because someone has had no MA training doesn't mean they haven't been in a lot of fights.... Who would you rather fight, someone who has learned what works the hard way or someone who thinks they know what works?

JK, if what you're trying to say is you'd rather fight someone with a bit of MA training (as opposed to someone who has been training for a long time and is truly a "martial artist") then I would agree. Someone who has only been training for a little while and who hasn't really made the techniques their own, trying to remember correct footwork and body mechanics is going to be much easier to take down than someone who is just acting from instinct.

Respectfully,

[Zepp]

The best post on this topic on Bullshido.com was by far the one from Stoogejitsu:

I personally find it easier to win a spelling contest against judo kid, than to fight a martial artist.
:rofl:

believer,
Wrestling is most definitely a martial art,- a martial sport at the very least.

The purpose of having you spar that brown belt should have been to have the brown belt teach you. If you feel that he wasn't showing enough control, then you should definitely express this concern to your instructor.

My TKD instructor's first response to a student doing what you did would probably have been to laugh his ass off. He then would have explained that you should limit yourself to striking techniques for the time being, because that's what he's trying to teach you at your level. He also might express his concern for both you and your partner's safety.

I would guess (and hope) that you instructor had similar reasons for telling you not to fight that way.

As for the original point of this thread: If I had a choice between fighting one of my fellow black belts in a fight to the death, or some gang banger who's won a few scraps, I'm pretty sure I'd take the gang banger. (Assuming I know he's unarmed that is.)

[bob919]

i finds alot of seasoned martialartists (inc blackbelts) lose all their training after a couple of punches an d throw long swinging punches losing all control but treet fighter can keep their composure better usually

[Zujitsuka]

I also feel that a street thug is more dangerous than your typical martial artist. Mostly because they are unpredictable and highly motivated to cause you bodily harm. Hey, it is what they do.

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by bob919
your friend was too vicsious his life was hardly in danger


Originally posted by Jill666
How would he know that? A stranger has just attacked him. I stand by my statement.

I agree with jill on this one I'd fight the same way.

[KanoLives]

I think anyone can lose on any given day. Martial Arts training or not.

:asian:

[bob919]

Originally posted by fist of fury
I agree with jill on this one I'd fight the same way.

he was a drunk attacking alone whereas jills friend had jill there both trained in MA he could probably have pushed the drunk off an eye gouge is life or death only. if you blinded someone like that how would you feel ?

obvioulsy i dont know the full story and everyone has his own opinion but i would hold out the eye gouges unless i was depserate

[sweeper]

Originally posted by bob919
he was a drunk attacking alone whereas jills friend had jill there both trained in MA he could probably have pushed the drunk off an eye gouge is life or death only. if you blinded someone like that how would you feel ?

obvioulsy i dont know the full story and everyone has his own opinion but i would hold out the eye gouges unless i was depserate

Personaly I think the choice of deffence against an attack can only be gauged by the deffender.. Like you said you weren't there, but an eye gauge isn't all that big of a deal.. yes it can blind, but it won't nessisaraly, not unless your realy get a finger in there and jerk they eyeball to disconnect the optic nerv.

Personaly if I blinded someone in self deffence I probably wouldn't be all that upset.. I mean yes there is that realisation that you just inflicted some major dammage and perhaps in some way it could have been avoided.. But I would never risk my life or a freinds life because I wanted to be gentle to an attacker.. There is no excuse for attacking someone, drunk or not.. I don't care if jills freind was hitting on the guys girl freind or insulting his mother, if you bring a conflict to a physical level you have to accept ALL consequences.

If the drunk is blind today he braught it on himself.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by bob919
he was a drunk attacking alone whereas jills friend had jill there both trained in MA he could probably have pushed the drunk off an eye gouge is life or death only. if you blinded someone like that how would you feel ?

obvioulsy i dont know the full story and everyone has his own opinion but i would hold out the eye gouges unless i was depserate

I personally have my instructors view that if anyone lays their hand on me they can expect a poke to the eye or boot to the nuts or something of major pain. The fact that we DONT know whether our life is in danger when we are attacked means we HAVE to presume the worst. If you are attacked you fight to survive.....:asian:

[bob919]

i guess i see your point cause for all he knows the drunk mght have a knife in his pocket or something

[Jill666]

BTW, I forgot to mention the guy had an Army Ranger sticker on his car.

Just food for thought.

[KennethKu]

It isn't a question of how you would feel about causing severe injury. It is what legal liability you might face arising from your use of deadly force. If someone obviously has too much to drink shoved you and you inflicted severe injury, be prepared to be held accountable for your action in court. There is this thing called appropriate use of force. The legal test isn't based on what your instructor told you or what your bravdo tells you. It is going to be what the law of the land says.

[Matt Stone]

Maybe I'm just in a mood right now, but this thought occurred to me as I was opening the MT messages in my email inbox...

If street fighters are so much more efficient fighters, and some of the folks here have so much respect for their abilities and skills, what the hell are they doing training in martial arts? They should instead be spending their time "street fighting," whatever that is...

It seems to me to be desperately hypocritical for a martial artist to say that martial arts training is inferior to the abilities of a person who certainly does have a number of "real" fights under their belt, and who has likely won more than a few of them, but who also has no formal training, no understanding of their so-called skills beyond "hit the other guy first" (and often after making use of tricks to equalize the battlefield rather than relying on superior technique and skill), and no real method of practicing beyond getting into fights...

And the caveat of "well, my martial arts training, and my skills aren't what I was referring to" simply won't float, since the original post was posted in the first person, not as an indictment of generic minimall dojos.

Just a thought.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[MartialArtist]

Well, two real martial artists would probably never get into a fight. People with a huge ego who call themselves martial artists will never really see their potential as a direct result of their ego.

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Well, two real martial artists would probably never get into a fight.

A couple of thoughts, fueled by my rather dark mood currently...

1 - two "real" martial artists would neither fight each other nor place themselves in situations conducive to requiring a "demonstration" of their skill to extricate them.

2 - if a street punk fought a "real" martial artist, you wouldn't call it a fight... A fight is where two parties engage in mutual combat. Street punk makes a move, martial artist punishes him brutally. No fighting, just pain, pain, and more pain...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[Jill666]

I can't find any nits to pick, although I imagine someone will argue-

Unless you want a spin-off thread about the differences between martial artists and jerk-offs who attend martial arts classes.

Nah- been done before. :shrug:

I think if all MA schools had the kind of standards I would want to be held to, this discussion wouldn't even happen. ALL students of a certain rank would be proficient and dangerous. But I guess that's too much to ask.

Oops-

:soapbox:

[redfang]

I haven't gotten the impression that anyone here really has said that martial arts training is inferior to the experience that someone gets fighting in their neighborhood as part of day to day life, streetfighting I guess. In my post way back when, I was warning against underestimating someone because they aren't formally trained. Some people are naturals at sports. Similarly, some are very good natural fighters without any formal training. I think it's wise to avoid stereotypes such as the 'street punk' when mentally preparing for a fight. When the fight comes, you just have the individuals with their abilities, mind sets, skills etc.

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
A couple of thoughts, fueled by my rather dark mood currently...

1 - two "real" martial artists would neither fight each other nor place themselves in situations conducive to requiring a "demonstration" of their skill to extricate them.

2 - if a street punk fought a "real" martial artist, you wouldn't call it a fight... A fight is where two parties engage in mutual combat. Street punk makes a move, martial artist punishes him brutally. No fighting, just pain, pain, and more pain...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:
I would still consider it a fight, a fight does not always have to be mutual.

[Kingston]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
I would still consider it a fight, a fight does not always have to be mutual.

if its not mutual then i would call it an assualt (what the legal definition is im not sure)

even if its "provoked".

In those situations you have to assume the worst.....like what jill was talking about, hit him where it hurts, neck, eye, groin, floating ribs, spine. Then get out of there quick. (im not saying kill the guy....you dont even have to break anything.) Just get the job done. In my opinion "on the streets" there is no such thing as a 'fair' fight.

if the fight is "mutual" both 'fighters' square off, then i think most if not all of those spots are a little overkill.

But like everything "it depends"!