Ashida Kim--Sources?

[arnisador]

There's a concerted effort to delete the Ashida Kim page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashida_Kim) from Wikipedia. The justification given is a lack of sources (though the true reason seems to be that Wikipedia's founder wanted it removed). The only serious sources on him that have been found are an article from a small magazine (http://www.believermag.com/issues/200305/?read=interview_kim), his publisher's web site, and some court documents unearthed at the site that is automatically filtered here. There are passing mentions in various books that cite him as an expert on ninjutsu. (Yes, that's nuts.) Does anyone know of an article on him in Black Belt or the like that documents some basic facts? It has to be from a regular, printed source such as a newspaper or magazine or book--not just something from a web site or something obvious from reading one of his books.

[Milt G.]

There's a concerted effort to delete the Ashida Kim page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashida_Kim) from Wikipedia. The justification given is a lack of sources (though the true reason seems to be that Wikipedia's founder wanted it removed). The only serious sources on him that have been found are an article from a small magazine (http://www.believermag.com/issues/200305/?read=interview_kim), his publisher's web site, and some court documents unearthed at the site that is automatically filtered here. There are passing mentions in various books that cite him as an expert on ninjutsu. (Yes, that's nuts.) Does anyone know of an article on him in Black Belt or the like that documents some basic facts? It has to be from a regular, printed source such as a newspaper or magazine or book--not just something from a web site or something obvious from reading one of his books.

Hello,

I have his book; "Secrets of the Ninja" (1981) in front of me.

There seems to be nothing about Mr. Kim from a biographical standpoint whatsoever. Very unusual in a book, or any media it seems.

It is an interesting book. The photos amateurish, even by the standards of the day. It is an interesting, though basic, read. I remember getting it when new and enjoying it on some levels. Thank heaven, it did not give me the impetus to become a "Ninja".

Hope this helps some, but fear it does not. Feel free to e-mail me if you need anything from the book.
So, why do they want to delete his entry in Wikipedia? Because of the lack of substantiating historical background pertaining to him? I think he wrote more then one book.

I think they should keep him in. If for no other reason that he is a "personality" of the martial arts that helped students in their interest of his ellusive art on a wide scale. :)
How many of todays "seniors" have done that?

Best of luck in your search.
Milt G.
mguinette@comcast.net

[Archangel M]

Who In Martial Arts DOESNT know who Ashida Kim is?

I think he has to stay.

[xJOHNx]

There was an article about him in Martial Arts Inside. The interviewer fired some questions to which 12 to 15 masters in different arts responded. Not such a deep article (just basic questions), But it's him allright.

It was the edition with Chris Crudelli on the front page. Nov. 2008, Vol. 21, no.6.

Hope this helps you out.

[kaizasosei]

When i was a kid i actually took ak seriously. Really caused me much grief and wondering that the kuji mudras described were different but i tried all ways and trusted the japanese sources more anyhow. All the chinese terminology was interesting and the ideas in ak books are thoughtprovoking, i guess.
I dunno, don't really seem to need too much ak in my life as i have discovered plenty of other legit stuff.
It seems to me that people like ak are setting themselves up just to get taken down. I saw a documentary once and it wasn't near as interesting as the books i remember. Although the books also seem to build up to something...but it never seems to quite get achieved, whatever it is. Now i think the stealth is cool in a way but without the mindset it is a bit suspicious.

[arnisador]

So, why do they want to delete his entry in Wikipedia? Because of the lack of substantiating historical background pertaining to him?

Yeah, they have some pretty strict rules on that--too strict in some regards.


There was an article about him in Martial Arts Inside. The interviewer fired some questions to which 12 to 15 masters in different arts responded. Not such a deep article (just basic questions), But it's him allright.

It was the edition with Chris Crudelli on the front page. Nov. 2008, Vol. 21, no.6.


That's just the kind of thing I need! Thanks!


When i was a kid i actually took ak seriously.

Been there!

[Xue Sheng]

But since he is a great master it is likely if deleted he would just reappear due to his superior ninja training and you would never see it happen due to his mastery of invisibility :D

[Grenadier]

I wouldn't waste any precious calories mulling over the deletion. As far as I am concerned, the less we hear about him, the more likely, he'll fade away (into obscurity, not via ninja techniques).

[arnisador]

Actually, he requested the page be deleted some years ago!

I'm having trouble finding copies of or web sites for MA Insider...

[xJOHNx]

A cruel and unforgiving site. Doesn't come up in google either. Maybe they have some ninja disguise techniques as well..

http://www.martialartsltd.co.uk/

If you can't find it, I'll try scanning it.

[sgtmac_46]

http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

[arnisador]

A cruel and unforgiving site. Doesn't come up in google either. Maybe they have some ninja disguise techniques as well..

http://www.martialartsltd.co.uk/

If you can't find it, I'll try scanning it.

Ah, I had thought you meant Martial Arts Insider! If it's not inconvenient for you to scan it, I'd really appreciate getting an e-mailed copy. I'm of the opinion that deleting it is ludicrous--he's a fraud, but it's helpful for people to be able to look that fact up and know!

[Xue Sheng]

You know I have not heard about or even thought of Ashida Kim since the last time he was brought up on MT and likely I will not think of him or hear about him again until the next time he is brought up, he simply is not that important to me.

But on that note Ashida Kim will never go away, Hell there are 12 pages worth of threads (do a search for Ashida Kim) that are either about him of mention him here on MT that range from February 2002 to today (September 14, 2009)

[arnisador]

Alas, I need "real media" sources--they won't accept MT!

[Josh Oakley]

why not just call him and let him know you're trying to do a legit article on him? He might be able to give you a starting point.

[xJOHNx]

Ah, I had thought you meant Martial Arts Insider! If it's not inconvenient for you to scan it, I'd really appreciate getting an e-mailed copy. I'm of the opinion that deleting it is ludicrous--he's a fraud, but it's helpful for people to be able to look that fact up and know!

I'll try, it is glossy paper though. I'll see to it in the weekend.

[arnisador]

why not just call him and let him know you're trying to do a legit article on him? He might be able to give you a starting point.

Unfortunately he wants the article on WP removed, so I doubt he'd cooperate. I'd like to see it stay for 13 year old martial arts enthusiasts who would otherwise risk getting off to an unfortunate start...

[sgtmac_46]

Unfortunately he wants the article on WP removed, so I doubt he'd cooperate. I'd like to see it stay for 13 year old martial arts enthusiasts who would otherwise risk getting off to an unfortunate start...

I think this is really the issue.....


In September of 2005, Kim discovered an article about himself on Wikipedia (http://www.wikitruth.info/index.php?title=Wikipedia&action=edit). With a stated desire to remove the article, he began a massive vandalism campaign, which included attempting to blank the article and leaving inappropriate messages on the "user pages" of Wikipedia editors.

http://www.wikitruth.info/index.php?title=Uncensored:Ashida_Kim

[arnisador]

That's part of it, but the bigger issue is that WP founder "Jimbo" Wales wanted the page removed, but nominated it via the regular process and was defeated. This is the seventh attempt to remove by butt-kissers who want to please the big boss by finishing the job he started.

[xJOHNx]

I always thought that Wikipedia was a medium with unbiased opinions.. Seems to be wrong about that one.

He's a fraud and people should be aware of it and have access to information about his affairs. Honesty should be a keyword in MA.

[Josh Oakley]

Unfortunately he wants the article on WP removed, so I doubt he'd cooperate. I'd like to see it stay for 13 year old martial arts enthusiasts who would otherwise risk getting off to an unfortunate start...

Only one way to find out.

[arnisador]

Well, the article was deleted this morning in any event.

[Milt G.]

Well, the article was deleted this morning in any event.

Hello,

Oddly, I think that is kind of sad...

A large driving force in the martial arts are those "nebulous" rogues that cause us question and inspire. Perhaps Ashida Kim is one?

Oh well... If he wanted it removed, himself...

Perhaps he will write an autobiography? :)

Thank you,
Milt G.