Cambodgian Stage

[Khmo]

Hello,

there exist exchanges between the countries.
1 French association went to the country to follow 1 training course of Sporting Khmer Boxing… Good initiative !
Good exchange and good spirit !

I specify that they are awaited the country by the best boxers of the country… the boxer out of blue tee-shirt (before that with the tee-shirt green PUMA) is the best boxer of the country…!
All are present, accessible, humble here… by ratio of Dollars: just 1 assistance for French has to progress !

Big respect ........................ ;)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wkgt_regard-cambodge-mars_extreme

( I greet them ;)

respect,
Khmo.

[Fede]

Hi Khmo!!

Thank you very much for the video, I enjoyed it a lot it was very interesting.
Finally I get to see what training in Cambodia looks like. They are very nice people, both the Cambodians and the French. I hope this can make Khmer Boxing more known and appreciated because surely it deserves more attention. I am going to post this video in another forum.
Also very nice to see how the French trainer brought his students to see the historical places and taught them some history, even nicer they did some charity to poor schools and people, that's very educative especially for the younger boxers.

[blackdiamondcobra]

Here is some vintage eh and chey fights.

Eh Poutong vs andrus krin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RWucGvb964&feature=related

Eh Poutong ko:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4poqY98wmU&feature=related

Eh fought alot against foreigners in cambodia. When I last trained and interviewed with him, he was 25 years old and fighting between 70 -73 kilos, he stated his record was 148 fights total(140 wins-4 draws-4 losses)

He fought more recently against ben case an american(and who helps out and appears in col amants bare knuckle vol 2 dvd) but eh was not the same as his weight had increased and he seemed to have lost the fire:

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnjexKH_r4Y

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFIRqVjmT40&feature=related

Chey Kosal vs a fighter from turkey even though it says Russian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLHcYgt4emY&feature=related

My good friend in the CABA is announcing on the above fight. Chey is another one of the top fighters in cambodia and at the time when i saw him he was 22 years old, fighting at 60 kilos, was ranked lightweight contender with a record of 39 fights(34 wins-1 draw-4 losses)

Chey Kosal vs Ken Tsubosaka (japan):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQEAJ8BA3rk&feature=related

[Fede]

THank you for sharing the videos Vincent,

that was impressive, just as his fights record!

[Khmo]

ThanK Fede !!!!

one does not see in the video the old techniques… but that is 1 pretty initiative of 1 French association ! The French person in charge is very sympa… That was the first time that foreigners came to the camp !
And video is recent for it…
Many possibilities are has to realize in Cambodge !
And the boxers Khmer are very humble, very open !

ThanK Vincent ;)
Eh Poutong is a large Mister… frightening combatant is super Zen or accessible in the life!
for the Vidéo and to work...

:ultracool

[Khmo]

that of 1930 is brilliant ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItQW4ydVEI&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJydSe51rvY&hl=fr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Wwzauc6b8&feature=related

Respect,
Khmo

[blackdiamondcobra]

Very nice footage from the 1930s

The bokator is a revitalized form much like muay boran, a composite for modern times.

The cambodian systems were well developed and their competitions were steady up until the fall of phnom penh and pol pots take over of the country so that began the blackout period for any type of competition or training. Many of the fighters, teachers, trainers were killed or died during that period, so the rebirth of the system almost 10-15 years later caused them to vacant during the major period when muay thai become world popular in the 80s-90s building up from the latter part of the 1970s. Cambodia could have been part of the major interest but unfortunately it could not reparticipate until much, much later when people started to train again and compete.

[Khmo]

Thank for info ;))

:)
:ultracool
:)







Has soon blackdiamondcobra...

[Brian R. VanCise]

Nice video clips! Thanks!

[Khmo]

:asian:

There are always things interessent in the Khmer system !

& Hello of France for Michigan ;)))

[destructautomaton]

Thanks for all the great links I have been slowly going through all the cambodian dvds i recently got, great stuff!

[destructautomaton]

So from what i am seeing there is the pradalserey fighting in the ring and the old arts like the swords, some sort of bareknuckle systems and we talked about the wrestling ----and the bokator system which oddly gives black belts and ranks like karate so i assume this something new or recently brought into the cambodian systems?

[Fede]

Hi DA, I think you are right about Bokator.

I see muay boran as the Thai counterpart. They created a system
and said it was the original ancient muay of the country, the muay that supposedly defended the land, or the muay that directly comes from there.
That's great for a system that has been recently created by the Phys Ed
department of Thailand!
And they too have belts or khan or stashes, to show how close bokator and muay boran are. I never heard of such things with muay Lanna, Korat, Chaiya....so it is weird to see that in Bokator too since they say it's the original bare knucke art.

Again, why don't people say that there are old bare knuckle masters in Cambodia? I think and I hope that the old sword systems are still to be found there or they will die out or be included into another supposedly original and true old system.

[destructautomaton]

thanks, fede, you brought up alot of interesting things. i see they are selling bokator everywhere including people saying they are black belts which dont make sense. you are right its clear from vincent,khmo and yourself there is alot of great stuff including the bare hand stuff but nobody is really opening up about that and sort of jumping on the bokator thing i guess we'll see where it goes.

[blackdiamondcobra]

well we are seeing a bit of repeat of the muay boran situation in thailand beginning to show in cambodia. Again nothing wrong with it long as it labeled in the right context. Bokator is an old system, but there are others but nobody seems to care. Bokator in the modern way, is a new system made of a composite of old system material(much like muay boran as a form of physical education draw from old systems into one composite without the distinction of the original styles but offering the flavor and techs). The cambodian teacher was a former hapkido man and obviously was a bit enamoured with the belt system and gives out black belts(which seems odd within the context of a being an original cambodian system of bare knuckle but so be it). People of course will battle over this is the authentic, the real, the...whatever..but thats what it is and continues to be. One needs not be overly critical to it yet understand what it is and what it offers, so one can make the appropriate choices.

There are many of the old authentic masters still alive throughout cambodia and i have documented and trained with them continuously, this is of paramount importance because all the books and records were destroyed, so the teaching and oral histories must be recorded which is a huge task and its time consuming. Some of the old texts or books did survive because when masters left cambodia some took them with them and those are some of the rarest martial system material there is.

So right now in the bare knuckle realm you have the new composite bokator and the numerous old bare knuckle fighters and masters spread throughout the region. It is alive right now and hopefully the old masters will be recorded and the material trained so it can survive in entirety or else you will have to settle for the newer form of bokator.

[Fede]

Thank you for the clarifications. I don't like these two arts because they are mixing things up, as you said things should be stated clearly so one can choose but what I have seen is that the afore mentioned sytems came up with the big (and wrong or distorted) claims and with publicity at the expenses of the true and old ones that could face oblivion, as you said.

I don't understand how one can learn and understand different systems by rolling them up into one, something has to get lost in the process. I had experience in muay boran and I learned separate techniques which were never put to use, they were disconnected from each other. It was like if there was no core. Very different from boxing if I have to make a comparison, which was very centered and alive to me.

[blackdiamondcobra]

I think people go, especially foreigners. to the most easily accessible thing they can find and what they can regurgitate from anything written(in english), so at this point we can see how the most popular initially draws the most students. Its a common thing. Hopefully our posts and writings just educate those to at least gain a definition and understanding of what these systems are, so there is no disappointments or confusion.

Sometimes and i hope its the case, one thing draws others to search for the root which is the actual systems and old masters. Its alot of work I admit but well worth if you want to get at the actual material.

We see a huge spurt in cambodian systems being taught and websites springing up so i know it has changed remarkably from nothing in the 80s and 90s, to a sudden wellspring in the last 5 years or so. I have monitored it closely over that span of time and at least its a healthy sign of growth, where it will go and how big it will get remains to be seen.

[Khmo]

that is although the foreigners are interressed by Arts of Cambodge.
There are good things… and it is still easy to discover Masters…
Much work to find 1 true Master. They are often in the campaigns… Far from the big cities.
Much film (cinema), Pub, reports… help since always Martials Arts Thai.
That is not the case for Arts Cambodgians !
No Cambodgian ONE BAK with the Cinema ! LOL
The voyages are expensive, little from people go in the country. And as the Cambodge ones do little Pub: that is still "confidential".
But the mentality of Cambodgians is different from the Thais…
I wish for them that their Art be + recognized !
+ Represented !
+ to like of the public !



sorry my bad english
:angel:


has soon.

[Fede]

Hi khmo!

From what I have read in the forums, Pradal Serei is being recognized in America so maybe it will be more known in the future. Also the video about the French Khmer boxing school you posted shows that there is genuine interest from Europe, so hopefully something good is slowly coming out.
I mean I had never heard of Khmer boxing before talking about it here or reading something on the net, so this is a sign for me.

I prefere that, going to the country side and learning there with the true masters. That's what you did and you can speak from your direct experience, that's a rare thing!
there is no need for the magazines covers or advertising! I can tell you I hope it stays like this.
Yes the plane ticket is expensive, but that is the most expensive thing because life in Cambodia cannot be expensive!

[blackdiamondcobra]

The cambodian systems are in a healthy state of growth for the time being but its going to take some time. The film industry there might one day do something like ong bak i can see that in the future to spur a massive amount of interest in the original arts. There was a really bad movie already shot in cambodia called bokator but it was literally hard to watch. Only time will tell what comes happens there as well as in Europe and the US.

[Khmo]

Yes I wish 1 good development…
Only critical point (for me) is that the Parisien Club which is to go to the country names " Boxing Thai"…. :(
Same if their sensitivity goes to the Boxing Khmer ! 1 large advanced is to put on its door: KHMER BOXING and not Thai Boxing ! lol ! But that is right 1 remark perso… When I gave run my Association named KHMER BOXING CLUB even if people knew the system at all… 17 years ago I wished to propose to the Khmer not the Thai (even if I knew the Thai). That is also 1 history of felt perso… of sensitivity… of belief. To create 1 Khmer Club is not carrying financially. Few people are attracted, little people knew… Boxing Thai on the door makes come + people to the club ! Many points are has to see ! Being indebted to the Khmer it was logical for me to represent this system ! But there was no shower, of warm water, heating has my Club. The conditions were difficult as for me when I was with the country ! And Europeans do not like that !
To work under 40° in summer and to work have 2° in winter was not 1 good point… People wished beautiful conveniences… of pretty shower….Etc ! They would have been unable to hold 3 days in Cambodge in 80'-90' !
4 years after I closed my Club…. On tens of practitioners who only came 4 held the shock. The mentality of the country is important. To want to give people a hard work as there exists in Cambodge can be 1 fatal error ! As I do not run after the Dollars I closed my Club. I did not wish to teach in Dojo high Tec… If people do not arrive these hard conditions it has to exceed will be never ready has to understand or fight effectively in 1 Khmer spirit. I do not have a regret, I do not retrogress but to diffuse 1 difficult art in a modern country with mentalities comfortable that is difficult. To go directly to Kampuchea east 1 good way of knowing if one has adze of mental ! I speak about the life in shift and not to return every evening in his Hotel **** stars.
I wish just that many people be 1 lively interest for martial arts Khmer !
my experiment is personal, that is not 1 truth for all…
everyone is different.

has soon ;)
respect has all !

[blackdiamondcobra]

In the early years when I first trained in the cambodian systems, nobody heard of it, and the teacher could find no students, muay thai also wasnt around, so he went to a traditional school and earned a black belt so he could teach that commercially then on the side continue with the cambodian stuff. So I can see people using other systems to draw people in initially until there is more awareness of the arts for it to sustain itself in a commercial environment. Luckily here in the US, the schools and teachers now dont have to resort to that and seem to be doing well or at least surviving.

[tenzen]

i practice kun khmer and our school is not doing so bad. we have a descent amount of students. also we are on the second floor of an indoor soccer stadium so that helps us get more exposure. i am new to the se asian arts but i am really enjoying them, i like to watch the fights it keeps me on the edge of my seat the whole time.
it would be great to see the cambodian arts get out to the public more, then they could afford better conditions for their fighters and perhaps have many world title holders. i feel like the techniques are solid enough only the fighters health must be better. from what i am told they do not get good food and the conditions are worse than in some of the smaller gyms in thailand.

[Khmo]

Cool that you practise the KHMER ;))
Congratulations ;)

That pleases to me when I hear that !!!!!

I announced just that in Cambodge the boxers practise to eat, to live, make transfers their family. The material conditions pass AFTER….
And that is not the case in much country. Many professors ever went to Cambodge…. Sometimes that is right of the Boxing Thai and at all of the Khmer ! When a confidential art leaves its country: often it loses its true values. That is all…. No the idea in me to wound the other practitioners verbally ! No the idea in me to force it has to be justified ! LOL..

That is an art of the combat…. 1 ART ! How for painting or the literature ! When a painter wants to progress: he will go in the Museums, with the Exposure, to meet a Master, etc…. That is identical with Arts of Combat ! There is 1 day or it is necessary to go in the country of birth of the Art… to include truly how that occurs ! I know Profs which has write Boxe Khmer on their door without knowing 1 only Khmer technique ..... That is disturbing ..... Much explains how to fight in Khmer without never to have fought with the country of birth…. Much gives courses against Dollars .....

What I want to say: for really learning it is better to go to the country and to understand the things, to fight on the spot ! Technically a Moderne teacher will be enough but not mentally !

Good WE has ALL…
respect.

[Fede]

Hi Khmo,

that is ridiculous but true, it seems they want to please their ego and their wallet! Forget about teaching correctly and being true to students!

you make an important point, it's not only the fighting, but also what is behind. Knowing where it comes from, who did what and understand a bit of the country and culture of the system you want to learn naturally go together. That's what I think.

I agree, if you learn in these countries, you usually learn much more than techniques. And can bring back many positive things and teach, if this is your goal.
It is not always easy to go to Cambodia, Thailand, Burma....you have to sacrifice something to make space for a trip there. But if you really want it, in time you can make it!

[destructautomaton]

It seems at least there is a positive start to the cambodian martial arts spreading outside of maybe one style that is in question I guess its always better to go to the actual country to learn these arts but outside of that hopefully there will be some further info and more in depth teaching opening up soon.

[blackdiamondcobra]

I actually feel hopeful that the situation with the different khmer/cambodian arts will take a positive course in its growth within cambodia and also in europe and the usa. There are strong cambodian communities in the usa and australia and they seem to work together pretty well. The australians have organized major competitions and have compiled a nice bit of information. There are many more websites devoted to the cambodian arts as well including sample instructional bits like below:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qje2S0ve4k8

[destructautomaton]

Thanks for the link I found a treasure trove of footage on youtube and it looks like there is indeed alot going on in the cambodian community here.