First American Martial Arts

[James Kovacich]

I have an idea which martial art was the first homegrown American martial art but I'm intriqued to hear about other American Martial Arts.

So I can date Kajukenbo back to 1947. Any others out there?

Who knows the dates of the creation of the other American martial arts?

[MartialArtist]

Native American arts are very old in America.

Do you mean after 1776?

[yilisifu]

I think we might want to define what we mean by "martial arts" before we go much further.

If we are talking about an organized system of techniques used in combat, that's not necessarily what one would call a "martial ART."......

[James Kovacich]

I'm interested in actual martial arts that are taught as martial arts such as Karate, Ju Jitsu and Gung-Fu. But if you've got something interesting, post it.

[karatekid1975]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Native American arts are very old in America.

Do you mean after 1776?

Interesting post. Do you know of any Native American martial arts? I'd like to learn about it.

[Blindside]

How about Patton's cavalry saber? He redesigned the existing cavalry saber and gave instruction on how to use the point instead of the slash in charging the opponent. Not revolutionary, but written by an American for use by our armed forces. A book published by the US War Department was published in 1914, the author was then 2nd Lt. George S. Patton.

Lamont

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Blindside
How about Patton's cavalry saber? He redesigned the existing cavalry saber and gave instruction on how to use the point instead of the slash in charging the opponent. Not revolutionary, but written by an American for use by our armed forces. A book published by the US War Department was published in 1914, the author was then 2nd Lt. George S. Patton.

Lamont

I don't know if it was a just a fighting system or an actual martial art.

Could someone please enlighten us on how to determine an actual martial art?

[Blindside]

Well here is an off the cuff definition:

Skill at the methods of war/combat.

To me, a fighting system is a martial art, I don't differentiate between the two.

Lamont

[James Kovacich]

How about a list of homegrown American martial arts? If you have dates, all the Better.

1) Kajukenbo
2)

[jfarnsworth]

American kenpo goes to '54. However it's odd that the gentleman who started Kajukenbo and Mr. Parker who founded american kenpo came from the same school with Mr. Chow. However I thought AK came first. :idunno: I guess this can go back to the chicken and the egg thing.

[sweeper]

it realy depends on what you consider to be a martial art, is it in the end result or the training method?

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by karatekid1975
Interesting post. Do you know of any Native American martial arts? I'd like to learn about it.
I don't know of any specifically, but I do know the Iroquois had their own fighting system, and I'm pretty sure the Crow did as well. There is a thead about this in the Western Martial Arts section, but I don't know how informative it will be.

To me, a martial art is a combat system. It can have a philosophical and/or mental focus/concentration/control part to it. Most martial arts do have a philosophical or a mental aspect to it. I'm guessing the American fighting systems did have a spiritual tie with Animism and such.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
American kenpo goes to '54. However it's odd that the gentleman who started Kajukenbo and Mr. Parker who founded american kenpo came from the same school with Mr. Chow. However I thought AK came first. :idunno: I guess this can go back to the chicken and the egg thing.

Sijo Adriano Emperado was a 5th degree under William Chow when he created Kajukenbo (he fouded Kaju along with 4 others, it is Sijo who is credited with nurturing Kajukenbo through the years to what it is today) from 1947 to 1949. The date you referred to was actually the date that Ed Parker earned his Shodan, I think it was 1953 or '54.

It was sijo Emperado who promoted Grandmaster Parker to 8th dergree. See thread:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7782

Its some good reading. :asian:

[Blindside]

How about a list of homegrown American martial arts? If you have dates, all the Better.

OK, now define "American." :p Do you mean North American continent, something founded after US independence, or something else entirely. You can't get a good answer without a specific question.

Lamont

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Blindside
OK, now define "American." :p Do you mean North American continent, something founded after US independence, or something else entirely. You can't get a good answer without a specific question.

Lamont

I was thinking along the lines of martial arts that "are" being taught in the USA, have been created in the USA and have withstood the test of time.

So the new systems of late, would not qualify.

We have:

1) Kajukenbo
2) American Kenpo
3) ......

[A.R.K.]

What is the time span of 'the test of time'?

:asian:

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
What is the time span of 'the test of time'?

:asian:

Hard to say, maybe 30 years?

This is my opinion only and is open to be disputed.

I think 30 years is good indication that a system has some substance. I think that 10 years is not a long time at all and 20 years a system is becoming possibly note worthy in the sense its still exists.

I was going to leave Jun Fan Gung-Fu/Jeet Kune Do out but since I've put anumber of years out there I'm going to put my Sensei and Sifus system that fit the bill.

1) Kajukenbo
2) American Kenpo
3) Jun Fan Gung-Fu
4) Macias Gung-Fu (Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung-Fu)
5) Bushido Kempo
6) Tenshi Goju
7) Budoshin Ju-Jitsu

NOTE: Tenshi Goju can be argued whether it is American or not. But it was founded by an American and is recognized by his Sensei and with his blessings and I beleive has no connections today with Asia at all. The same goes for Budoshin Ju-Jitsu.

:asian:

[Blindside]

How about Fairbairn's WW2 Combatives? Though you could debate the early portion was started in Shanghai....

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Blindside
How about Fairbairn's WW2 Combatives? Though you could debate the early portion was started in Shanghai....

I've never heard of it. Is it an art that is being or was taught?

If you can verify thats it was or is considered an art thats withstood the test of time, then add it.

I'm interested in hearing about other newer arts too. maybe we can make a couple of lists and categorize them?

[haumana2000]

If you are incorporating Kajukenbo which had it's inception in Hawai'i's Palama Settlement, then you would have to give the Organized "Martial Art" (an organized system) award to Kui'alua. Which was brought to the Islands by it's Polynesian inhabitants, waaay before anybody else pulled in looking for a night at the tiki bar, and a couple of honolulu hookers. Also known as "Lua" it is made up of several compenents from boxing, to wrestling, to weapons usage in established "halau" schools.

[Doc]

Originally posted by akja
Sijo Adriano Emperado was a 5th degree under William Chow when he created Kajukenbo (he fouded Kaju along with 4 others, it is Sijo who is credited with nurturing Kajukenbo through the years to what it is today) from 1947 to 1949. The date you referred to was actually the date that Ed Parker earned his Shodan, I think it was 1953 or '54.

It was sijo Emperado who promoted Grandmaster Parker to 8th dergree. See thread:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7782

Its some good reading. :asian:
You are absolutely correct. Emperado was Ed Parker's senior under Chow and is the only person Parker actually accepted rank from after his departure from Chow. Parker received his Sho-Dan in June of 1953.

[haumana2000]

Kind of funny this is brought up, Im from Hawaii, and this weekend had a lot of my family and friends here in colorado for College graduations. (I run a Pacific Island Organization out here.) Anyway, my friend Chads dad used to take Kajukenbo when he was young, he's in his late 50's? He was telling us some crazy stories about how rough Mr. Emperado was, and how all the schools in Hawaii would fight against eachother at that time. He and some of his Kajukenbo friends, went to te military together, and he was telling us, of how they would "try out" techniques at night clubs, and such when they were young. just a coincidence since I dont dont study Kempo or Kajukenbo.

[Doc]

Originally posted by akja
I have an idea which martial art was the first homegrown American martial art but I'm intriqued to hear about other American Martial Arts.

So I can date Kajukenbo back to 1947. Any others out there?

Who knows the dates of the creation of the other American martial arts?

Perhaps you should limit it to "empty hand" to cut it down a bit, but still a very problematic question. Afterall The American interpretation of "boxing" is a martial art as well. You need a more definitive query.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by haumana2000
If you are incorporating Kajukenbo which had it's inception in Hawai'i's Palama Settlement, then you would have to give the Organized "Martial Art" (an organized system) award to Kui'alua. Which was brought to the Islands by it's Polynesian inhabitants, waaay before anybody else pulled in looking for a night at the tiki bar, and a couple of honolulu hookers. Also known as "Lua" it is made up of several compenents from boxing, to wrestling, to weapons usage in established "halau" schools.


1) Kajukenbo
2) American Kenpo
3) Jun Fan Gung-Fu
4) Macias Gung-Fu (Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung-Fu)
5) Bushido Kempo
6) Tenshi Goju
7) Budoshin Ju-Jitsu
8) Kui'alua (lua)
:asian:

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Doc
You are absolutely correct. Emperado was Ed Parker's senior under Chow and is the only person Parker actually accepted rank from after his departure from Chow. Parker received his Sho-Dan in June of 1953.

Yea I'm pretty good at finding out about aother peoples instructors but not my own.

I'm still trying to find out who taught my first Kajukenbo instructor Bill Caspillo. He lived in Pleasant Hill, Ca., was a 5th Degree and wore a white Kajukenbo patch with red lettering. He was my instructor in 1973-4.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by haumana2000
Kind of funny this is brought up, Im from Hawaii, and this weekend had a lot of my family and friends here in colorado for College graduations. (I run a Pacific Island Organization out here.) Anyway, my friend Chads dad used to take Kajukenbo when he was young, he's in his late 50's? He was telling us some crazy stories about how rough Mr. Emperado was, and how all the schools in Hawaii would fight against eachother at that time. He and some of his Kajukenbo friends, went to te military together, and he was telling us, of how they would "try out" techniques at night clubs, and such when they were young. just a coincidence since I dont dont study Kempo or Kajukenbo.

I have a lot of cousins (distant) in Hawaii, some blood related and some not. My grandfather came from Spain to Ca. but his sister moved from Spain to Hawaii and her married name was Chang. So my mothers first cousin is half Chinese.

My Grandmother died young and my grandfather moved to Hawaii with his sister and thats where he met his second wife a Peurto Rican (my step-grandmother) and her maiden name was Trochez. I'm sure they are mixed nationalities by now.

I've only met my mothers cousin though. My mother has met a lot of them and she said that some of them are Philipino, they would be blood related (barely).

[haumana2000]

cool, brah, most people would not believe the amount of different nationalities there today. Especially Puerto ricans, when I tell people they freak out. Kinda sad that the state that supports so many others though is experiencing the loss of its native peoples at such an alarming rate :(

now only a tiny percentile of the population.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by haumana2000
cool, brah, most people would not believe the amount of different nationalities there today. Especially Puerto ricans, when I tell people they freak out. Kinda sad that the state that supports so many others though is experiencing the loss of its native peoples at such an alarming rate :(

now only a tiny percentile of the population.

I did have a cousin that lived here when I was a teenager that was 1/4 Hawaiin. I understand the feelings, I grew up mixed and it all starts in the familys sentiment.

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by akja


1) Kajukenbo
2) American Kenpo
3) Jun Fan Gung-Fu
4) Macias Gung-Fu (Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung-Fu)
5) Bushido Kempo
6) Tenshi Goju
7) Budoshin Ju-Jitsu

NOTE: Tenshi Goju can be argued whether it is American or not. But it was founded by an American and is recognized by his Sensei and with his blessings and I beleive has no connections today with Asia at all. The same goes for Budoshin Ju-Jitsu.

:asian:

American Freestyle Karate is in it's 27th year. Gettin' close to 30.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

[James Kovacich]

) Kajukenbo
2) American Kenpo
3) Jun Fan Gung-Fu
4) Macias Gung-Fu (Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung-Fu)
5) Bushido Kempo
6) Tenshi Goju
7) Budoshin Ju-Jitsu
8) American Freestyle Karate
:asian:

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by akja
) Kajukenbo
2) American Kenpo
3) Jun Fan Gung-Fu
4) Macias Gung-Fu (Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung-Fu)
5) Bushido Kempo
6) Tenshi Goju
7) Budoshin Ju-Jitsu
8) American Freestyle Karate
:asian:
American Kickboxing... Not created really as a self-defense art, more of a competition/sport style.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
American Kickboxing... Not created really as a self-defense art, more of a competition/sport style.



1) Kajukenbo
2) American Kenpo
3) Jun Fan Gung-Fu
4) Macias Gung-Fu (Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung-Fu)
5) Bushido Kempo
6) Tenshi Goju
7) Budoshin Ju-Jitsu
8) American Freestyle Karate
9) American Kickboxing
:asian:

[donald]

Are there any DOCUMENTED indigenous systems? Being about a 1/4 Cherokee. I am very interested in learning more about this.

Salute in Christ,
Donald :asian:

[tshadowchaser]

Archery and knife fighting where most likely the first as well as some sort of club , wrestlig/grappling would be in there to.
are thery alive as they where in the old days most likely not but we still do all of them

[MartialArtist]

Some results on Google:

http://ejmas.com/kronos/
http://www.9ways.com/taohouse/updates/warrior/art1.htm

[redfang]

Someone mentioned William Fairbairn's close combat system taught in WWII But I didn't see any follow up.

Lt. Col. Fairbairn spent time with the Shanghai police before WWII and developed a self defense system for his officers. It was armed and unarmed and emphasized simple, brutal techniques that could be performed under extreme situations and while fatigued. He retired in 1940 and went to England (He is English and so his system probably wouldn't qualify.) and was charged with teaching his system to English and American troops. He also instructed Allied commando units, including the OSS (Office of Strategic Services, the CIA's predecessor). For the army, he changed his system to emphasize strikes (chops, tiger claw, open handed chin jab, simple kicks.) while his police training included more throws and locks. In a nutshell, that's Fairbairn's story.

What about Adrian Roman's Indian Weapons Systems, does anyone know if they are authentic or did he make them up?:asian:

[westernwarrior]

Catch-as-Catch-can is an American art. It's a deviation from Lancanshire style wrestling, and still exists today. An exact date of creation is hard, since it evolved into something else over time.
Bowie knife-fighting is distinctly American, but documanted techniques are rare. Most people who have studied it draw from knife and saber fighting of the time period.
There are a host of different WWII military combatives from many different teachers. Col. Rex Applegate was a student of Fairbairn and kept his tradition alive here is America. There were a number of military men who had their own, similar systems for self defense such as Charles Nelson and B.J. Cosneck
Native American fighting arts are hard to find because 1. there is little to no documentation of any Native American laying out a system and 2. Like most martial arts, they have probably developed into folk games that do not bear as much on combat as they once did.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by westernwarrior
Catch-as-Catch-can is an American art. It's a deviation from Lancanshire style wrestling, and still exists today. An exact date of creation is hard, since it evolved into something else over time.
Bowie knife-fighting is distinctly American, but documanted techniques are rare. Most people who have studied it draw from knife and saber fighting of the time period.
There are a host of different WWII military combatives from many different teachers. Col. Rex Applegate was a student of Fairbairn and kept his tradition alive here is America. There were a number of military men who had their own, similar systems for self defense such as Charles Nelson and B.J. Cosneck
Native American fighting arts are hard to find because 1. there is little to no documentation of any Native American laying out a system and 2. Like most martial arts, they have probably developed into folk games that do not bear as much on combat as they once did.

Kajukenbo
2) American Kenpo
3) Jun Fan Gung-Fu
4) Macias Gung-Fu (Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung-Fu)
5) Bushido Kempo
6) Tenshi Goju
7) Budoshin Ju-Jitsu
8) American Freestyle Karate
9) American Kickboxing
10) catch as catch can