NICE martial artists wear skirts!

[Flea]

It's summertime, and for me that means the long flowy sundresses and hippie skirts come out. I realized that from a SD perspective, dealing with all that extra fabric would add a whole new dynamic. So as an experiment, this morning I put a skirt on over my gym pants to see how it felt.

What a surprise! The extra cloth was only the tip of the iceberg. I found that the skirt touched a deep psychological nerve of "I'm a girl," and so all my actions became much more feminine. I minced daintily in most of the drills. I spoke softly. I giggled where I usually laugh. I tried not to get dirty. And most interesting from a technical standpoint, every time I fell I was careful to keep my legs together and hold the skirt down with my hands.

All this was unconscious, at first. Once I realized I was doing it, I just observed the thought pattern. I kept the skirt on to see where the sensation took me. It's a great education to watch one's thoughts dispassionately. I'm really amazed at how deep the gender conditioning goes just by putting on a different article of clothing. It's also a little embarrassing for such a self-proclaimed tomboy too. :uhyeah:

Zo. The upshot of all this is that I'm hitting the Goodwill first thing on Monday to buy a junker skirt to wear at every practice for the forseeable future. This gender stuff needs a deeper look. That, and if I can learn to fight dressed like girl, I hope to be that much more badass once the skirt comes off. This may be an interesting challenge for the guys too as they occasionally struggle with the "don't hit girls" taboo.

Should be interesting ...

[Sukerkin]

An interesting experiment, Flea.

Having worn a hakama, I can attest that the same thing does not affect chaps who put on a 'skirt' - I suppose because it's masculine 'warrior' attire of another culture perhaps. Indeed, wearing one does actually tend to induce something of a swagger to your movement - the practical issue that did make it's appearance felt very early on was that walking up stairs is a whole different excercise when wearing what amounts to a full length pleated 'skirt'.

[Carol]

That is very interesting.

I have effectively run, jumped, kicked and shoved in a business suit and heels...but, ya know, once I got on the commuter train I've generally calmed down. So glad I'm not working in downtown Boston anymore. LOL!

In all seriousness, I've practiced a few moves in nicer clothes, and I've trained for several hours in street clothes, but I don't think I've ever done a full practice session in a skirt and heels or something similar.

I like the idea of buying some secondhand clothes and doing a full practice session in more feminine attire. That could be very interesting.

[girlbug2]

What a fascinating idea! Training oneself to fight in a skirt, very practical--I do sometimes wear them on the street, and you never know when you'll be assaulted.

I may try this sometime...with the instructor's blessing beforehand.

[Flea]

and you never know when you'll be assaulted.


Exactly. I suspect wearing a skirt makes one a more attractive victim. First, a skirt or dress makes one look more feminine, with all the stereotypes of weakness that go along with that. Secondly, dresses usually mean less practical footwear too, and a little more difficulty with escape. And some dresses can inhibit motion.

We don't have uniforms in my class, and the teacher is very mellow. I didn't ask; he looked at me a little quizzically when I put it on, and was impressed with my rationale. :ultracool I'm serious about going skirted indefinitely; I just need to find one without an elastic waist that won't fall off too readily. I think this will propel me lightyears forward in my practice.

[jarrod]

i'm going to start training in my kilt.

under those circumstances, is it still appropriate to go commando?

jf

[harlan]

:-popcorn:


i'm going to start training in my kilt.

under those circumstances, is it still appropriate to go commando?

jf

[Flea]

i'm going to start training in my kilt.

under those circumstances, is it still appropriate to go commando?

jf

Indeed.

Didn't we just have a similar thread in this forum? :moon:

[jarrod]

i'm sure i don't know what you're talking about.

jf

[Kacey]

To return to the original topic - I periodically train in street clothes (those are, after all, what one is most likely to need to defend oneself in), and I teach classes in which my students come in street clothes and train in them, for the same reason. Granted, 90% of the time, street clothes for me means jeans and a t-shirt - but even sneakers can throw off your focus if you're not used to kicking in them. Sandals or dress shoes that come off at the first technique can throw you off - one of the things we practice is kicking your shoes off at the first attack, so as not to be hindered by them if they're likely to fall off anyway. On the other hand, spike heels are a great weapon, especially aimed at the instep following a shin rake.

You will respond as you train - and if you only train in a uniform, or gym clothes, that will likely hamper your response when you try anything else. Training in street clothes is a valuable technique, and I highly recommend it.

[Kantini]

dI have always evaluated my daily wardrobe with the thought of what moves I could do while wearing them. I've never actually practiced in them however. Time to give it a try. I've also thought of accessories as weapons. You know, purses or their straps, jewelry, pens, or articles of clothing like jackets and sweaters,belts, scarves, and definately heels.

[Tez3]

I actually, unless I'm doing a 'dirty' job like sewer searching etc always wear a skirt for work as opposed to trousers and boots. I can kick better for one thing but the main thing is that I do look more feminine, more approachable and less of a threat than wearing mens clothes so I get less agression back. I get the edge on people who are stroppy and/or drunk. It doesn't impede me at all from carrying out my job, I can do anything in a skirt that colleagues can do in trousers, I believe any advantage I can get I'll take.

[Flea]

dI have always evaluated my daily wardrobe with the thought of what moves I could do while wearing them. I've never actually practiced in them however. Time to give it a try. I've also thought of accessories as weapons. You know, purses or their straps, jewelry, pens, or articles of clothing like jackets and sweaters,belts, scarves, and definately heels.

I hoped to find it on Youtube, but there's a great instructional video of using objects like jackets, backpacks, and umbrellas in Systema. Cool stuff.

I don't think I've ever been so excited about hitting the thrift store before! :ultracool

[Flea]

One other thought with all this.

The skirt was also a tremendous asset in many ways. Because it conceals my legs it added an element of surprise for my opponents. And that delicate mincing enhanced the drills where precision is important - especially timing. I've also done a lot of folk and ballroom dancing over the years, where a skirt is basically a social requirement. So with the MA it also cued the dancing mentality, which dramatically boosted my learning curve.

Can you tell I'm really excited about this?

:highfive:

[ArmorOfGod]

Does anyone remember that old Bugs Bunny cartoon where a van full of hats opens up on the freeway and the hats dump out? When the hats landed on the cartoon characters, they assumed the identity associated with each hat.

[Rich Parsons]

To return to the original topic - I periodically train in street clothes (those are, after all, what one is most likely to need to defend oneself in), and I teach classes in which my students come in street clothes and train in them, for the same reason. Granted, 90% of the time, street clothes for me means jeans and a t-shirt - but even sneakers can throw off your focus if you're not used to kicking in them. Sandals or dress shoes that come off at the first technique can throw you off - one of the things we practice is kicking your shoes off at the first attack, so as not to be hindered by them if they're likely to fall off anyway. On the other hand, spike heels are a great weapon, especially aimed at the instep following a shin rake.

You will respond as you train - and if you only train in a uniform, or gym clothes, that will likely hamper your response when you try anything else. Training in street clothes is a valuable technique, and I highly recommend it.


Kacey et al,

I agree with the street cloth training, I also think seasonal training is required as well. In our area it snows and there is lots of ice. So training in winter gear is also done. I could imagine that summer gear with lots less clothing would also cause issues for people who are not used to it as you stated.

Thanks

[Stac3y]

In my teens, I took a women's SD class that actually demontrated and trained ways to use heels as weapons. A stomp to the foot with a stiletto heel can be very effective; raking the shins, too. Alas, I can't wear heels any more, though--they hurt my flat, wide feet and are risky for my ankles, both of which have been sprained too many times. I do wear skirts regularly, but I avoid ones that are very restrictive, like pencil or straight skirts.

[Live True]

Until I started training MA, I'd never given thought to how restrictive my clothes could be...but I tend to wear pants or flowing skirts, so not a lot of problems. Now, though, this thread has definately got me thinking...what a great idea.

I do know that I purchase clothes differently now. If I can't easily kick or move in something, it's very unlikely I'll buy it. Weird and cool at the same time.

GREAT THREAD

[Xue Sheng]

Although the majority of my Sanda training was in street cloths ranging from jeans to business casual I will admit I never trained in a skirt and likely won't any time soon :D

[Tez3]

What if you were attacked when just wearing a towel around your waist lol?

[Carol]

What if you were attacked when just wearing a towel around your waist lol?

I would hope that I was being attacked in a GOOD way! :D :D

[Xue Sheng]

What if you were attacked when just wearing a towel around your waist lol?

Modesty does not allow me to respond :D


I would hope that I was being attacked in a GOOD way! :D :D

As would I :D

[Flea]

What if you were attacked when just wearing a towel around your waist lol?

I don't know about you Tez, but this is how I get dressed every morning ...

D3Sn-SMOqEE&feature

Seriously though, I just got home from the thrift store with my Systema skirt. It's perfect. It's a size too big so it'll fit comfortably over my gym pants. It has a button waist so it won't slide off when it gets tugged around. It's a circle skirt with big pleats for total freedom of motion, very heavy cotton, and barf brown so I won't care when it gets plastered with mud and grass stains. In short, it fits like a tent and looks like one too. I'm sure all my classmates are going to get the hots for me now. :ladysman:

Ironically, I also found a gorgeous sports bra too that's a perfect fit. Maybe in some obscure karmic sense the two garments cancel each other out?

[Rich Parsons]

What if you were attacked when just wearing a towel around your waist lol?

Well to be honest I would remove the towel and use it as a weapon.

Although, by removing the towel I would have also released another weapon of devasation.

** Dramatic Pause **

Laughter! :D

Yes, they would laugh so hard that I could use the towel to restrain them with no resistance. ;)

[foggymorning162]

Great thread I think I'm going to have to recommend to my instructor that we try this as an entire class as we have a large number of women.

[Flea]

This skirt enterprise is turning out to be harder than I thought. Once the novelty wore off from last time, I found that went straight back into the female submissive mode that I'd just managed to crack after so many months of practice.

:banghead:

I'll forge ahead with it anyway. It's called practice for a reason after all. But I don't think I'll be quite as gung-ho about wearing the skirt regardless. We started class today with something I've never quite figured out and the skirt was simply in the way. So I'll give myself some leeway for common sense; there's challenging my learning curve, but there's no reason to block my own path just for the hell of it.

[Xue Sheng]

This skirt enterprise is turning out to be harder than I thought. Once the novelty wore off from last time, I found that went straight back into the female submissive mode that I'd just managed to crack after so many months of practice.


That's interesting.

Then could it be there is more society based psychological baggage that comes with a skirt that would not be so obvious unless it was put into a MA training situation. Kind of a what woman are expect to do and not to do while wearing a skirt kind of thing or an associated way of thinking that goes with wearing a skirt that would otherwise not be known unless you put it into an MA situation?

And if that is the case then training in a skirt could only help one get over these barriers or it could be I am completely clueless and have absolutely no idea what I am talking about since I do not wear a skirt and I am not a woman

[girlbug2]

And if that is the case then training in a skirt could only help one get over these barriers or it could be I am completely clueless and have absolutely no idea what I am talking about since I do not wear a skirt and I am not a woman

Well there is one way for you to find out :D

[Flea]

Thanks, Xue.

I'd love to hear other women's perspectives on this, but here's my own: femininity is a code of behavior based largely on what Nice Girls do and don't (hence the title of the thread.) I'm not saying that I agree with the code, but it's still very deeply ingrained.

Nice girls:

Are loyal to their friends and loved ones, even if it's not always healthy to be so
Comply with social expectations - they earn good grades, listen to their parents, and generally follow The Rules
And most relevant to this conversation ...
Avoid conflict whenever possible (easy to take to an unhealthy level when it's bred into you from infancy)

I won't bother with the Nice Girls Dont list. It's pretty straightforward. Nice Girls don't make waves would top that one, redundant to the above.

So given the above, I find that I'm unconsciously drawing these corrollaries:

Female = nice
skirt = female
skirt = extra strong reminder to be nice

It's frustrating as hell., and embarrassing to be held captive mentally by something so trivial.

It would be an interesting to find a male equivalent to this. If you wanted to try this experiment yourself, Xue, maybe you could join a quilting circle? No dress required. :) Having quilted myself for a while, I can promise you it would be an eye opener.

I'm reminded also of another dear friend of mine who'd have a unique perspective after seeing both sides of the gender fence first-hand. She's transsexual, and after making unimaginable sacrifices (even beyond the medical ones) to get where she is, a skirt is the ultimate statement of strength. It's a badge of honor for her, and she never wears pants now. I should run this by her - she'd love to chew on it.

Thanks for the thought-provoking questions. I hope my response is coherent; I'm spitting it out between calls at work.

[Xue Sheng]

Well there is one way for you to find out :D

NAH, I'd have to go buy one that fits, my wife is much MUCH thinner that I am and her skirts would never fit me :D


Thanks, Xue.

I'd love to hear other women's perspectives on this, but here's my own: femininity is a code of behavior based largely on what Nice Girls do and don't (hence the title of the thread.) I'm not saying that I agree with the code, but it's still very deeply ingrained.

Nice girls:

Are loyal to their friends and loved ones, even if it's not always healthy to be so
Comply with social expectations - they earn good grades, listen to their parents, and generally follow The Rules
And most relevant to this conversation ...
Avoid conflict whenever possible (easy to take to an unhealthy level when it's bred into you from infancy)

I won't bother with the Nice Girls Dont list. It's pretty straightforward. Nice Girls don't make waves would top that one, redundant to the above.

So given the above, I find that I'm unconsciously drawing these corrollaries:

Female = nice
skirt = female
skirt = extra strong reminder to be nice

It's frustrating as hell., and embarrassing to be held captive mentally by something so trivial.

It would be an interesting to find a male equivalent to this. If you wanted to try this experiment yourself, Xue, maybe you could join a quilting circle? No dress required. :) Having quilted myself for a while, I can promise you it would be an eye opener.

I'm reminded also of another dear friend of mine who'd have a unique perspective after seeing both sides of the gender fence first-hand. She's transsexual, and after making unimaginable sacrifices (even beyond the medical ones) to get where she is, a skirt is the ultimate statement of strength. It's a badge of honor for her, and she never wears pants now. I should run this by her - she'd love to chew on it.

Thanks for the thought-provoking questions. I hope my response is coherent; I'm spitting it out between calls at work.

First, me wearing a skirt was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement so I must do nothing. And secondly, you must be a woman for the woman's code to apply and I'm not. And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Ms Flea…errr…ummm..I mean…Welcome to gender bias in America Ms Flea :D .

Even more interesting (to me anyway) is that I do not necessarily think this way of training woman is necessarily global. Some cultures are better some are worse. I am pretty sure my wife (who is from China) would not look at it any differently if she were in a skirt of pants if she had to defend herself.

[Jenna]

Thanks, Xue.

I'd love to hear other women's perspectives on this, but here's my own: femininity is a code of behavior based largely on what Nice Girls do and don't (hence the title of the thread.) I'm not saying that I agree with the code, but it's still very deeply ingrained.

Nice girls:

Are loyal to their friends and loved ones, even if it's not always healthy to be so
Comply with social expectations - they earn good grades, listen to their parents, and generally follow The Rules
And most relevant to this conversation ...
Avoid conflict whenever possible (easy to take to an unhealthy level when it's bred into you from infancy)

I won't bother with the Nice Girls Dont list. It's pretty straightforward. Nice Girls don't make waves would top that one, redundant to the above.

So given the above, I find that I'm unconsciously drawing these corrollaries:

Female = nice
skirt = female
skirt = extra strong reminder to be nice

It's frustrating as hell., and embarrassing to be held captive mentally by something so trivial.

It would be an interesting to find a male equivalent to this. If you wanted to try this experiment yourself, Xue, maybe you could join a quilting circle? No dress required. :) Having quilted myself for a while, I can promise you it would be an eye opener.

I'm reminded also of another dear friend of mine who'd have a unique perspective after seeing both sides of the gender fence first-hand. She's transsexual, and after making unimaginable sacrifices (even beyond the medical ones) to get where she is, a skirt is the ultimate statement of strength. It's a badge of honor for her, and she never wears pants now. I should run this by her - she'd love to chew on it.

Thanks for the thought-provoking questions. I hope my response is coherent; I'm spitting it out between calls at work.
Flea, I think nice is one thing and but I think the cleverest women adopt niceness as part of their repertoire. I do not mean being calculating, rather being in control of every personal situation instead of being controlled by our wardrobe. I think niceness is not something girls are born with any more than boys. I think it is learned both environmentally (from media and clever marketing) and from peers and adults.

I have to say I think it is a shame that any woman is bound by an unwritten code. I am not saying we all need be Emmeline Pankhurst and but strictly social mores - if they hinder us - we should not abide by them. And but you are correct, niceness can have been ingrained so much from a young age that it seems inherent. Nevertheless I think it has to be consciously overcome in the practice hall :)

Upbringing is a factor certainly - you mentioned that nice girls do not make waves and avoid conflict. While I think most people live by this ideal, I was raised by my dad and told as a girl to hit back if beat upon, only to hit back harder. I think rather than wanting to have me as some belligerent, my dad was keen to pedestal me as his princess as dads do and yet at the same time know that I could protect myself in order to BE his princess. And I give him credit for showing me both sides. I am nice by default, I think :) Though I would not be bound by niceness. I would be surprised if you were so different???

I would say also that guys are hamstrung too not by the niceness you mentioned and but by testosterone so a similar experiment for men would be diametric I think - not wearing a skirt and but being forced to walk around openly with a baseball bat and trying to remain "civil" and but I am sorry to digress.

You have some very interesting empirical ideas, you are a very clever woman :) Those are worthy of a research paper I think! :) And thank you for raising these ideas :)
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

[Flea]

First, me wearing a skirt was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement so I must do nothing. And secondly, you must be a woman for the woman's code to apply and I'm not. And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Ms Flea…errr…ummm..I mean…Welcome to gender bias in America Ms Flea :D .



I'm on the clock right now so I'll have to come back to this conversation later. But in the meantime, I hope you don't think I was ordering you to change clothes! I was just thinking out loud about how one would turn the experiment around for a man to see things from a female perspective.

Besides, telling you what to wear wouldn't be ... dare I say it? oh, dare! ... nice. :uhyeah:

[Stac3y]

Reading this today has suddenly struck a chord in me. I don't have the problem of being too nice in MA class; I spar hard when it's appropriate, and am not afraid of getting hit. But the "nice girl code" constrains me elsewhere, I realize; for instance, it makes my husband absolutely nuts that I will go to almost ridiculous lengths to avoid having a fight with him. I'm pretty tough at work (I'm a department manager, so I have to be) and I'm pretty tough in class and in competition, and I hold my own just fine in the outside world, but at home I'm....meek. Holy hell! :eek::xtrmshock

Need to give this some more thought.....weird.

[Xue Sheng]

I'm on the clock right now so I'll have to come back to this conversation later. But in the meantime, I hope you don't think I was ordering you to change clothes! I was just thinking out loud about how one would turn the experiment around for a man to see things from a female perspective.

Besides, telling you what to wear wouldn't be ... dare I say it? oh, dare! ... nice. :uhyeah:

No worries it was just an example of my strange sense of humor by changing a quote from the Pirates of the Caribbean, the Black Pearl :pirate4: . I saw the chance and I took it and I'd do it again to %-} :D

[Chris Parker]

Hi,

Well, this is a very interesting experiment, I wish you the best in the discovery it will bring and commend you for the discovery it has brought already. When we hold "street" classes, we get the students to dress in street clothes for the simple reason that the clothing worn have very real psychological ramifications (all too often we can have a tendancy to only become "Martial Artist Warrior" when dressed in the proper uniform, or "costume" as it becomes then).

Being a keen interested observer of humanity, I do have a quick question for you. You have covered your transformation well, but I am curious how your male colleagues react to the skirt. Do they treat you any differently when attacking, or are they the same as always?

Oh, and Xue, thought the Pirates reference was great. I love those moments... I like to wave to them as they pass by...

[Flea]

Being a keen interested observer of humanity, I do have a quick question for you. You have covered your transformation well, but I am curious how your male colleagues react to the skirt. Do they treat you any differently when attacking, or are they the same as always?

An excellent question, and I've been watching out for that myself. It's a little early to say yet, but they have commented that it's an extra challenge because they can't pinpoint the exact position of my legs or just what I'm doing with them. I did notice on Thursday that I got left out a disproportionate amount with an odd number of people. But it's possible that I regressed a little to my old wallflower mentality with the skirt on too, so I don't know whether it was them. I'm guessing not.

I'll bring the skirt with me today, but after last night I'm training for real rather than training for fun. So I probably won't use it this time around. The experiment is still on though. :mst:

[girlbug2]

That whole thing about the position of the opponent's legs is a difficulty of mine, without my partner wearing a skirt. My eyes are drawn to monitor the legs constantly and I leave myself open to punches all the time. I think if my opponent was wearing a long flowy skirt it would probably help me keep my eyes on their chest and use my peripheral vision for the legs like I'm supposed to.

Somehow though, I doubt I will convince anybody else to help try this little experiment :shrug:.

[Rich Parsons]

That whole thing about the position of the opponent's legs is a difficulty of mine, without my partner wearing a skirt. My eyes are drawn to monitor the legs constantly and I leave myself open to punches all the time. I think if my opponent was wearing a long flowy skirt it would probably help me keep my eyes on their chest and use my peripheral vision for the legs like I'm supposed to.

Somehow though, I doubt I will convince anybody else to help try this little experiment :shrug:.

Girlbug2,

Do you do low line heel kicks or stomps? If you do then when you see their feet/legs move then react with a kick to the shins or shin area, while keeping your head up.

Once you feel you have a defense for the feet you might be able to not le them distract you as much.

Good Luck!

Thanks

[Rich Parsons]

Hi,

Well, this is a very interesting experiment, I wish you the best in the discovery it will bring and commend you for the discovery it has brought already. When we hold "street" classes, we get the students to dress in street clothes for the simple reason that the clothing worn have very real psychological ramifications (all too often we can have a tendancy to only become "Martial Artist Warrior" when dressed in the proper uniform, or "costume" as it becomes then).

Being a keen interested observer of humanity, I do have a quick question for you. You have covered your transformation well, but I am curious how your male colleagues react to the skirt. Do they treat you any differently when attacking, or are they the same as always?

Oh, and Xue, thought the Pirates reference was great. I love those moments... I like to wave to them as they pass by...


I have seen the same thing happen to those who are thugs from the street. While they have their favortie boots or shoes and their special jacket they are in combat mode, but take them out of them and they change in how the act and treat others.

Watching people is good for self defense and for entertainment. ;)

[Grendel308]

Hi Flea,
Well I will weigh in on this one on two fronts.
1. Skirts and dresses. There are a few ways these can be worn and you can feel wearing such items. Depending on the dress and heels I wear I can come across sweet and feminine or Irma la Douce. More is said from the set of your shoulders, the cock of your hips, the length of your stride and the smile in your eyes than the length of your skirt. There are few times I feel more powerful than when wearing a really nice dress that has a side slit and a pair of good Italian 3" heels. I don't feel restricted or pigeonholed, I feel devilish and sharp. In watered silk and flats I am much more relaxed and friendly but as far from a wallflower as you can get. I want to surround myself with people and engage. I am open to everything and everyone, again fearless.
2. The reaction people have to me is diffrent, yes but not the same as you.
When I am wearing the power dresses with the high heels I project an image of cofidence and competance and OK 1/4 *****. ( sexy *****) I just do not get messed with other than have men hold doors held open for me, give me their place in line, their parking spaces, hold up traffic to let me cross the street, and look at me like I am an expensive piece of meat. (and that is telling, isn't it) But no one messes with me. No one is ever rude, isn't that odd?
If I am in the very feminine dress and am being very freindly again I am almost never hassled. If it does happen the people around me, often the biggest guys, will allways intervene and send whomever is being disruptive on thier way. It is pack mentality but in a reverse way. The group wants harmomy to return and so gets rid of the disruptive influence. Being feminine allows me to act as a calming but positive influence on a group, not in a minor , meek, passive,controlled way.

If I must go to court and speak forcefully I wear a powersuit. When I am fundraising I wear the pretty watered silk. A few weekends ago on Canada Day I was at part of a big fundraiser for the the No-Kill shelters of Winnipeg held in Osboure Village . ( In 12 hours our group of 4 people raised $2300.00. I did a lot of schmoosing. Thanks for coming down Andrew. You look even more gorgeous with a bit of a tan.)

Flea, this is why you need to come with Jenna and I to the Islands. I also need to take you shopping. Your dresses and skirts should make you feel like you have the world at your feet or by the "boys".
PS Your friends should make you feel like this too.
lori

[Flea]

Flea, this is why you need to come with Jenna and I to the Islands. I also need to take you shopping. Your dresses and skirts should make you feel like you have the world at your feet or by the "boys".
PS Your friends should make you feel like this too.Lori, you're da bomb!!

Now that you mention it, I haven't dressed wicked sexy in years. Aside from my red bikini last summer at the swim club, where I caused a near fender-bender on my way in. :angel: Maybe I need to make a priority of that, even if I don't have an established reason to do so.

There's another aspect to the experiment for me. To clarify, I don't believe that female = weak. I don't even necessarily believe that female = nice. I'm just saying that that's the programming we've been handed. But Lori, you make an excellent point that while rejecting the destructive part of the programming it's important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I wore the skirt today for about half the class. I took it off for doing rolls, because it contributed nothing and just got in the way. Put it back on for a while, then ditched it again when I paired up with a newbie and the concealment aspect made the learning difficult for him. I'm happy to say that today it was just a garment, no additional baggage attached. That's the goal. I've thought a little about what other outfits I could wear to experiment with the psychological aspect - pajamas maybe. That red bikini would be fun, but inappropriate. Office duds? I'd want to keep those clothes looking respectable.

What if I rented a clown suit from a costume shop? :lol:

[jks9199]

Go back to the thrift shop where you got your "training skirt." Find a set of "training office duds." And get some cheap shoes like you would wear.

Set aside an old pair of jeans and the like, too.

And something along the lines of what you might wear to go out... especially what you might wear to go out and feel "wicked sexy."

Then spend some training time in each, to see how they effect your movement. Keeping to the female side... can you make the same moves in those thigh high boots and miniskirt that makes men drop about 90 IQ points as in a pair of sweats and bare feet? Or a business suit? You'll find differences in what you can -- and maybe what you WILL -- do.

I set aside a few classes a year for "street clothes" training. I encourage people to wear stuff they typically would be seen in... and several have had to adapt significantly the first few times...

My attitude changes as I put a uniform or tac gear on; it effects my bearing, my demeanor, even how I look at people. So does wearing a coat and tie. I know the same thing happens for women; you've said so yourself!

[Just4Kicks]

I've noticed that in normal street situations I act differently according to what I am wearing. Skirts in particular.

I usually wear jeans, so when I'm dresssed in a skirt I feel self conscious, demure and i'm always tugging the hem and sitting daintily. I feel less aggressive, submissive and generally more 'wallflower'ish.

Whereas if I am wearing pants I feel stronger, more confident, natural. Even if realistically, i'd find it easier kicking in a skirt than a pair of jeans.

But this is probably due to personal habit, I just don't feel myself in a skirt and so I assume the meek persona because that's what I'm socially conditioned to behave like when my femininity is highlighted?

but like mentioned before, you have to find the right feminine clothes. if you feel sexy and powerful, then there is no room for the stereotype.

I really should try and train sometime in a skirt, just to see how it goes. My club has a uniform though and on the day we have some leniency, everyone just wears the uniform pants and a tee. It would be amusing though to rock up in leggings and a skirt and see what reaction I get. If i can muster up the courage. haha

[thecrow]

i think women in skirts is sexy, and most guys do, and that is your advantage, it may restrict movement, but guys will not be expecting a fight, the element of surprise, if i were you i would look as sexy as i could and use that, use your sexuality as a weapon, then the trick is looking sexy and but making the clothes as freeing as possible. an illusion in other words, i found a cool pair of shoes that really let me feel the ground with my feet and added to balance and the best part is they looked like sneakers, i have even thought of wearing wrestling shoes, to make my opponents think i wanted to go to the ground, when i want to stay up. good luck

[Drac]

I dunno how I missed this thread, prolly when I was MIA...I once assisted(aka I was the Uke) a female MA expert that was holding a class in SD for professional females when I was living in Fla..They were required to wear what they wore to work, so there were a lot of business suites, short skirts and heels..They learned a lot about low line kicks, instep stomps and removing the high heels to use as a self defense tool...

[Blade96]

It's summertime, and for me that means the long flowy sundresses and hippie skirts come out. I realized that from a SD perspective, dealing with all that extra fabric would add a whole new dynamic. So as an experiment, this morning I put a skirt on over my gym pants to see how it felt.

What a surprise! The extra cloth was only the tip of the iceberg. I found that the skirt touched a deep psychological nerve of "I'm a girl," and so all my actions became much more feminine. I minced daintily in most of the drills. I spoke softly. I giggled where I usually laugh. I tried not to get dirty. And most interesting from a technical standpoint, every time I fell I was careful to keep my legs together and hold the skirt down with my hands.

All this was unconscious, at first. Once I realized I was doing it, I just observed the thought pattern. I kept the skirt on to see where the sensation took me. It's a great education to watch one's thoughts dispassionately. I'm really amazed at how deep the gender conditioning goes just by putting on a different article of clothing. .

I dont understand though how anyone can put on such and such a thing of clothing and say 'oh i feel more feminine now' Clothes dont make you what you are. If I wore dress pants, a men shirt, and a tie, I'm still a woman. and still feel like a woman.

[Jenny_in_Chico]

That is why Flea is Flea and you are you. Personally, I'm with Flea...when I wear a dress and heels, I feel more feminine, or perhaps I should say I'm more concious of my femininity.

The opposite side of the coin, of course, is why butch dykes dress in oxford shirts, jeans, suits and ties, etc...it helps them feel more masculine, or brings them closer to that part of their inner selves which is male.

[Flea]

I don't think that the question of how clothing affects one's state of mind is a gender issue at all. We all respond to the clothes we wear. If we didn't, there would be no need for dress clothes, work uniforms, cosmetics, pajamas, prayer shawls, or anything other than scrubs and sneakers. Our minds do respond to the psychological cues of what we wear. It's advisable to turn that tendency to our advantage, and it can be a lot of fun too.

The gender divide is just one aspect of this larger picture. A wise person will take advantage of this tendency as well - it's useful to explore the dimensions of gender, both as one interprets it for oneself, and as others interpret what they see when one dresses differently. And for the record, I also have lots of flannel shirts and a nice shiny pair of combat boots. That's my favorite outfit.

[Ken Morgan]

And for the record, I also have lots of flannel shirts and a nice shiny pair of combat boots. That's my favorite outfit.
Up here in Canada Flea, thats lingerie!:)

[jks9199]

I don't think that the question of how clothing affects one's state of mind is a gender issue at all. We all respond to the clothes we wear. If we didn't, there would be no need for dress clothes, work uniforms, cosmetics, pajamas, prayer shawls, or anything other than scrubs and sneakers. Our minds do respond to the psychological cues of what we wear. It's advisable to turn that tendency to our advantage, and it can be a lot of fun too.

The gender divide is just one aspect of this larger picture. A wise person will take advantage of this tendency as well - it's useful to explore the dimensions of gender, both as one interprets it for oneself, and as others interpret what they see when one dresses differently. And for the record, I also have lots of flannel shirts and a nice shiny pair of combat boots. That's my favorite outfit.
Flannel shirt & combat boots as the favorite outfit...

Like that ain't a tease from a gal who mentions how her red bikini disrupted traffic! :D

[Blade96]

That is why Flea is Flea and you are you. Personally, I'm with Flea...when I wear a dress and heels, I feel more feminine, or perhaps I should say I'm more concious of my femininity.

The opposite side of the coin, of course, is why butch dykes dress in oxford shirts, jeans, suits and ties, etc...it helps them feel more masculine, or brings them closer to that part of their inner selves which is male.

Flea does have a point though when she says 'we respond to the clothes we wear' because clothes can be an assertion of one's individuality. That, I think is also why some people get tattoes. I just dont think that a skirt, for example makes one 'more feminine' Regardless of what you wear, you are still a woman (or a man) It is not clothes that marks your masculinity (or femininity)

But, that is why Flea is Flea, and I am me. :) We each have our own thoughts on this.