First "live" sword

[MBuzzy]

Well, I just got my first "live" sharp sword. It is a samgakdo from a chinese forge. Very inexpensive, but high quality for the price. I consider this my "starter sword." Just to give myself a start and some practice on straw cutting and fruit cutting. A few times a year isn't going to cut it....

Either way, it is my first real sword, so I'm sure that it will always have a special place in my heart.

[Bob Hubbard]

Nice!

[arnisador]

Great! Good luck!

[wushuguy]

Be careful, you could poke an eye out with that thing! lol. Actually nice looking sword. Practicing with live blade give you more respect for the weapon, also need to be aware of the edge. Have fun training safely.

[Grenadier]

Looks nice, indeed. Who made it, if you don't mind my asking?

[Flying Crane]

Real swords are fun. Congratulations on taking that step.

You referred to this as a Korean sword, but it looks like the Japanese katana style. Could you tell me what are the differences, or are they similar enough in design to be considered the same? How about technique, is that similar as well?

thx.

[howard]

MBuzzy,

Congratulations... it looks like a very nice sword.

Do you guys cut from the draw in haidong gumdo?

If I could offer you any advice (from having worked a good bit with a live blade), it would be to never, never, never let your focus and concentration wander. Especially when you're resheathing.

Hope you enjoy the sword.

[MBuzzy]

Looks nice, indeed. Who made it, if you don't mind my asking?

Actually, I wish I knew....when I got it, I was a bit too excited to remember to ask the name of the forge. I was just thrilled to basically get a $500 sword for closer to $250. That is my local MA store, so I will be going back soon and I'll find out for sure.

[MBuzzy]

Real swords are fun. Congratulations on taking that step.

You referred to this as a Korean sword, but it looks like the Japanese katana style. Could you tell me what are the differences, or are they similar enough in design to be considered the same? How about technique, is that similar as well?

thx.

Thanks! I'm very excited, I have handled and cut with live swords often, but have never had the money to get my own.

The Korean and Japanese swords are very close in style. In fact, they're basically the same. The only differences that I've ever noticed are minor, such as weight and width/length of handle (I've stopped trying to translate sword parts from Korean to Japanese...I just don't know the Japanese).

This is actually a Katana, designed for Japanese sword practice, but it is basically indistinguishable from a Korean sword.

As for the technique, that is a bit different. I'm in the process of learning a bit more about Japanese technique, but until then I will have a hard time discussing the differences.

[MBuzzy]

MBuzzy,

Congratulations... it looks like a very nice sword.

Do you guys cut from the draw in haidong gumdo?

If I could offer you any advice (from having worked a good bit with a live blade), it would be to never, never, never let your focus and concentration wander. Especially when you're resheathing.

Hope you enjoy the sword.

Thank you very much!

Not in the same way that Japanese styles do. It is of course possible, but not until much higher levels. Generally, in Gumdo, the sword is drawn and you go to ready position before the cut.

That does not hold true however for paper cutting or fruit cutting. Both of those are done from the draw more often than not.

There are always exceptions of course, but most cutting is done based initially on a set of "basic cutting" techniques for each type of medium being cut.

[Flying Crane]

Actually, I wish I knew....when I got it, I was a bit too excited to remember to ask the name of the forge. I was just thrilled to basically get a $500 sword for closer to $250. That is my local MA store, so I will be going back soon and I'll find out for sure.

Not long ago I picked up a pair of long and short swords, for basically the same thing, about half of what they originally cost as the shop was going out of business after 30 years. I think I spent $300 or $350 or something for them. They are Musashi brand. Basically, I consider them the bottom end of "real" swords. They are katana clones, and would never match to a real katana made by a master smith in Japan, but nevertheless they are quite real weapons.

I think there is nothing wrong with them as long as you understand the difference.

At this point in my game, they mostly just reside in my collection.

[MBuzzy]

oh yeah, I have no delusions that this is a serious quality sword. I don't REALLY even consider this my "entry" sword, more of a "beater" I think. One that I can practice straw, paper, and fruit cutting on my own with as much as I want. If I damage it, that is fine. This is a sword that I can take apart, learn to maintain, learn to assemble and disassemble, etc without any real worries over hurting it.

Seriously, even if I chip or hurt the blade, it is still an incredible value of a sword and will do good for what I intend to use it for. Plus, I spoke with some students that use this blade and they are all very happy with it for basic cutting.

What I consider to be my first REAL sword runs around $2000 and it will be a while before I afford that.

[Flying Crane]

oh yeah, I have no delusions that this is a serious quality sword. I don't REALLY even consider this my "entry" sword, more of a "beater" I think. One that I can practice straw, paper, and fruit cutting on my own with as much as I want. If I damage it, that is fine. This is a sword that I can take apart, learn to maintain, learn to assemble and disassemble, etc without any real worries over hurting it.

Seriously, even if I chip or hurt the blade, it is still an incredible value of a sword and will do good for what I intend to use it for. Plus, I spoke with some students that use this blade and they are all very happy with it for basic cutting.

What I consider to be my first REAL sword runs around $2000 and it will be a while before I afford that.

Yeah, I'd say you are right on the mark about all points here.

[Ken Morgan]

Interesting.

Do you have to use a live blade in Gumdo? Or is an iaito allowed?

Gumdo looks to be very… “flashy” compared with the iaido and kenjitsu I practice. Looks to be many differences, there are only so many ways to use a sword, and both arts have those in common, but iai is more…subtle.

You cut fruit??? Ummm why? I would think the acidity of the fruit would not be the best thing for your blade.

[MBuzzy]

Interesting.

Do you have to use a live blade in Gumdo? Or is an iaito allowed?

Gumdo looks to be very… “flashy” compared with the iaido and kenjitsu I practice. Looks to be many differences, there are only so many ways to use a sword, and both arts have those in common, but iai is more…subtle.

You cut fruit??? Ummm why? I would think the acidity of the fruit would not be the best thing for your blade.

We have several versions of what you would call an Iaito. The mokgum (bokken) course. Is used for the beginning students. Then eventually you "graduate" to a Kagum, which is another practice sword. This looks like a sword, scabbard and all, but made of aluminum instead of steal to give students the feel for a real sword, with the weight and scabbard, with without any considerable danger. After that, you go to a Saegum, which is basically an Iaito. It is an unsharpened steel sword. Even after dan, for most practice, you use the saegum. the only reason I ever pick up a live blade is to cut. Occassionally to practice basics....just to get the feel for doing it with a live sword. I find it very humbling to do basic cutting with a live blade.

Live swords can't be used regularly until you are a Dan, although for cutting seminars and cutting practice, gups (kyu ranks) are allowed to use live swords to get a feel for cutting, under close supervision.

We do have quite a few spins and such. I suppose it depends what and who you are watching. Some are more flashy than others. Although the style itself is no more flashy than any other sword style in my opinion. The hyung (kata) are longer and there are a lot of them and there are several other exercises for which I don't know if a Japanese equivalent exists.

Fruit cutting has made a big difference for me. Hitting a flying or moving target and actually cutting it does wonders for accuracy, control, sword awareness, tip speed, technique, among other things. It is also practiced EXTENSIVELY with mokgum (bokken) and bean bags before ever touching a real sword and real fruit. I know that there is no "practical" reason to cut fruit...but seriously, we study sword....I never intend to use this anyway. But the fruit does extend to other areas, I've noticed a marked improvement in my manipulation of the sword after getting good at fruit.

You have to be VERY careful with the acid though. We oil the sword before and clean it immediately afterwards. Plus, it is only done with Samgakdo (three sided blades)....basically with straw/paper cutting swords. I would never cut fruit with a yukgakdo jingum (six sided or bamboo cutting sword). Most of our cutting is done on Bamboo.

[MBuzzy]

Also....subtle is kind of relative with sword arts....

It's tough to be subtle with a 100 cm piece of sharpened steel in your hand. I do know what you mean though.

[Ken Morgan]

Also....subtle is kind of relative with sword arts....

It's tough to be subtle with a 100 cm piece of sharpened steel in your hand. I do know what you mean though.

:):)

Proper Iaido is basically, very “stripped down”, no frills sword work. No baton twirling the sword, no jumps, nothing you do not need to get the job done. Get rid of the frills; get rid off all the extra stuff. There’s your opponent, kill him, wipe the blood off, and put the sword away. You’re done. Period.

I don’t pretend to know anything about your art, outside of a handful of videos on YouTube. Compare the iaido videos and Gumdo videos and you will see a “difference.” There is a different feel to the kata’s.

[futabachan]

Proper Iaido is basically, very “stripped down”, no frills sword work. No baton twirling the sword, no jumps, nothing you do not need to get the job done.

We don't have any jumps in MJER, but have you seen Katori Shinto-ryu iai? I'm thinking particularly of nukitsuke no ken and nuki uchi no ken. Jumps or no, it's still true, though, that they don't do anything twirly (spinning the sword on its axis during chiburi notwithstanding) and don't add any frills.

[futabachan]

Then eventually you "graduate" to a Kagum, which is another practice sword. This looks like a sword, scabbard and all, but made of aluminum instead of steal to give students the feel for a real sword, with the weight and scabbard, with without any considerable danger. After that, you go to a Saegum, which is basically an Iaito. It is an unsharpened steel sword.

We'd call both of those "iaito." Most folks use the Al-Zn version, especially since the weapon control laws in Japan make steel iaitos vanishingly rare there.

How long does it typically take a HDGD practitioner to get to dan rank? Is shodan considered a beginning rank, or a recognition that you're actually pretty good?

[Ken Morgan]

We don't have any jumps in MJER, but have you seen Katori Shinto-ryu iai? I'm thinking particularly of nukitsuke no ken and nuki uchi no ken. Jumps or no, it's still true, though, that they don't do anything twirly (spinning the sword on its axis during chiburi notwithstanding) and don't add any frills.


For fun throw in a jump just to see what Ohmi Sensei, Carol and Sandra have to say about it!

Yeah we’ve gone through Katori a few times, but it’s still more similar to MJER or MSR than any of the Korean stuff. Still very stripped down by comparison.

[futabachan]

For fun throw in a jump just to see what Ohmi Sensei, Carol and Sandra have to say about it!

Quote from Ohmi-sensei from a recent class: "That is KABUKI! That is ACTING! That is not iai!"

(For context, the thing he was commenting on did not involve any jumps or twirling or flashiness.)

[Brian R. VanCise]

MBuzzy be careful with this sword. I caution cutting with it as you do not know it's history, metallurgy, if it is a full tang, etc. Lot's of accidents can happen with cutting if the quality of the sword or the handle is poor. I would have it thoroughly looked over and disassembled before I cut with it.

[MBuzzy]

MBuzzy be careful with this sword. I caution cutting with it as you do not know it's history, metallurgy, if it is a full tang, etc. Lot's of accidents can happen with cutting if the quality of the sword or the handle is poor. I would have it thoroughly looked over and disassembled before I cut with it.

Thanks for the tip Brian! I already had it looked over before I bought it. The guy I bought it from is a 5th Dan in Japanese sword. I believe his organization is Taikai, but I'm not sure. He showed me how the basics of taking it apart, re-wrapped the handle, etc. It is full tang and I've seen it cut. His studio uses identical swords for cutting practice as well and haven't had any problems. I talked to a bunch of his students to confirm also. I wasnt about to buy a sword that I intend to cut things with without a pretty thorough inspection. Especailly after all the stories of pegs breaking, blades falling out and flying across rooms, etc....

For the low price, I was very impressed with how thorough and caring the guy I bought it from is. He owns a dojo and a martial arts supply store, which specializes in swords. So the dude isn't off the back of a truck and he isn't a joke. Although I still do have to find out the name of the forge...

[Brian R. VanCise]

Thanks for the tip Brian! I already had it looked over before I bought it. The guy I bought it from is a 5th Dan in Japanese sword. I believe his organization is Taikai, but I'm not sure. He showed me how the basics of taking it apart, re-wrapped the handle, etc. It is full tang and I've seen it cut. His studio uses identical swords for cutting practice as well and haven't had any problems. I talked to a bunch of his students to confirm also. I wasnt about to buy a sword that I intend to cut things with without a pretty thorough inspection. Especailly after all the stories of pegs breaking, blades falling out and flying across rooms, etc....

For the low price, I was very impressed with how thorough and caring the guy I bought it from is. He owns a dojo and a martial arts supply store, which specializes in swords. So the dude isn't off the back of a truck and he isn't a joke. Although I still do have to find out the name of the forge...

Excellent! I am glad you had it inspected and also that you have someone close to you who uses the same sword in their Training Hall! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[MBuzzy]

We'd call both of those "iaito." Most folks use the Al-Zn version, especially since the weapon control laws in Japan make steel iaitos vanishingly rare there.

How long does it typically take a HDGD practitioner to get to dan rank? Is shodan considered a beginning rank, or a recognition that you're actually pretty good?

Considering that I'm a Chodan (shodan)....I don't know if I'm qualified to answer that! The average student it takes around 3 years, with hourly requirements behind the different ranks. My instructor is also one of the 6 Chief Masters for our Federation, so she is VERY good at her style and at instructing. We have quite a few more requirements than the average dojang. She teaches as much of the art as she knows, which is a lot.

Up to Chodan, you get through basically 16 hyung/kata, which are pretty long- some over 70 movements.

But then, my feeling still carries over from my other style....Chodan just means that you're ready to really learn. You have the fundamentals, but you're still a beginner.

[MBuzzy]

Excellent! I am glad you had it inspected and also that you have someone close to you who uses the same sword in their Training Hall! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

I consider myself VERY lucky that I don't have to wait to afford the $2000 sword that I won't even have a chance to see or touch before I buy....

Now I just have to get some straw mats and stands..... :)

[Brian R. VanCise]

This is a great stand and I use it myself.

https://www.swordsofmight.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=601

There is a lot of junk on this site but this stand it good at a fair price.

[MBuzzy]

This is a great stand and I use it myself.

https://www.swordsofmight.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=601

There is a lot of junk on this site but this stand it good at a fair price.

So is there anything you don't do?

[Brian R. VanCise]

So is there anything you don't do?

:rofl: Yes actually there is quite a bit. However I try to keep going and constantly learn. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Namii]

Awesome. That one looks alot like the Hanwei practical series. My first live sword was also a Hanwei Practical. Im willing to bet he got it from Nihonzashi- same place I got mine