Eddie Murphy once said (in reference to moon walking), "That's
just the dumbest dance! Cause I can't do it, that's why I think
it's stupid." So this might be the same case here. Bear in mind
I'm a BIG guy, and big guys don't take to jumping too much.

Have any of you ever had the (mis)opportunity to really use
that kick? I just seems like the dumbest kick. I can see the
effectiveness of all the others so far, (I'm a yellow belt) but
this one just baffles me.

I suspect maybe I'll be set straight about it on this thread, which
is cool, we need more "chatter" in here.

If I sound like I'm whining, that's cool too, but reply to the post
anyway, cause we need some chatter in here. I'm trying so
hard not to sensationalize for the sake of getting a discussion
going, so I'm totally resisting such topics as "Starving people
out in the streets, stray dog problem, the answer speaks
for itself".


By the way, did I mention that we need some chatter in here?

Aaaaa batter batter batter batter

The Chicken Kick,

Actually it sounds pretty lame, doesn't it? Why couldn't it be something like thundering legs or dance of the two feet, then it might fit better with the Kenpo curriculum :)

The chicken kick is basically a jumping front kick or bicycle type kick where the leg you kick with is the leg you jump off of. Incidently most styles only have the one kick in this technique but because we are Kenpo people and we can't resist compounding and inserting we have two kicks in this technique.

If you are kicking with your right leg you would raise your left knee, jump off of your right, quickly switch legs in mid-air, kick with your right and land on your left leg.....Now Kenpo stylists like to add (for this example) a left front kick. That is instead of just raising your left knee you throw a front kick with your left leg (since you have to raise your knee anyway it makes sense).

Now that everybody is on the same page (hopefully) we get to one of the applications of this type of kick. Attacker in front in horse stance, hands chambered (I know, I know, it's just for illustration). First kick would be a left front kick to the groin using the instep. As the attacker doubles over (every action has a reaction) you jump switch legs and contact with a right front kick to the solar plexus (upper chest) using the ball of the foot. Remember the oject of the kick isn't gaining height (in this example), try to think of it as a quick leg change or a jump switch on a different plane, just a little hop will do ya.

As the attacker's upper body is driven upwards by the second front kick you can choose some sort of downward hammering strike to use this reaction against the attacker. Finish with a short heel kick to the face or groin and cover out (sorry couldn't resist).

Like with any combination technique the whole is the sum of the parts.....

If your left front kick is not very good....this won't work for you
If your right front kick is not very good..this won't work for you
If your jumping front kick is not very good..this won't work for you

You have to be halfway proficient in the above techniques to use a chicken kick.

You can use this in sparring although you have to be more flexible since your target areas are generally higher. You can experiment with combining two different kicks. Left leg roundhouse (to get around a leg or block) into right leg front kick.

I hope this post hasn't bored anybody and gives Kirk some insight into the technique he had a question on.

Rob

Originally posted by Robbo

As the attacker's upper body is driven upwards by the second front kick

Thanks for the detailed explanation for we non-kenpo people. I can't believe however that a jumping front kick could drive someone's body upwards?

Originally posted by arnisador


Thanks for the detailed explanation for we non-kenpo people. I can't believe however that a jumping front kick could drive someone's body upwards?

You have to visualize the angle that the kick is acting on. If you did a jumping front kick on a upright person your angle of attack would be parallel to the floor and drive them back. When your attacker is bent over your angle of attack changes to be perpendicular to the floor (similiar to a upward groin kick). The kick's path of action is straight up.

Originally posted by Robbo
The kick's path of action is straight up.

But you're not grounded, if I understand correctly--I can see how the snap of the kick might penetrate and might hurt, but not how it could drive (that is, move) anyone anywhere. If the intention is to use it in part as a setup for a followup technique that depends on driving the person upwards then I would think it would be necessary to have one foot on the ground. Perhaps I'm just not visualizing it correctly.

Every action has a reaction. Classic example is if someone kicks you in the groin it's a good bet you will bend over. If you are bent over and somebody uppercuts you in the face it's a good bet you will straighten up. I think where we are getting mixed up is that because the person is in the air you think there will be little or no penetration on the kick. There is enough power and penetration in this type of kick to straighten a person up. If that is not enough just think how fast a person's body reacts to the groin kick, you aren't waiting until they are already bent over before you throw the kick you are catching them in the act of bending over thus borrowing from their action (borrowed force) and compounding the power of the kick. If that doesn't make a person shoot straight back up then I don't know what will maybe just hit them on the back of the head at that point......with a brick :)

The chicken has the ability do damage. But it is a kick that has limited uses. The mechanics of the kick are quite simple by kicking upward with the first kick you start the momentum usually the first kick is just a tap or it is the diversion. The second kick since it now has a longer path gains more momentum and more power. Many styles call this a scissor kick and it has been popular in movies because of its flashy look, it was even in the movie Footloose in the end fight scene and probably in Roadhouse as well. You often find it in any of the crane forms.

Never throw things away kirk just file it in your mental hard drive so to speak. This reminds me of a story Mr. Conatser told me often growing up. Remember that 64 box of crayola crayons as a kid? The one with the sharpener in the back of the box? Well the box contained several odd named and colored crayons. Like for example kiddingly, snot green or crap brown. These crayons may sit in the box while you constantly use the practical ones. Blue.red,green etc. However much like a kenpo move such as the chicken kick there may be that one time when you may have to use that crayon to create a masterpiece or in this case a kick against somebody. Its always better to have something and not need it then to need it and not have it.

Well said, and so noted Ronin, thank you! :)

:D
Just wanted to point out the use of Reverse or even Roundhouse type chicken kicks too.
I have seen these used in sparring, and of course Two Man techniques and at other time just to close the gap!
And I have seen the chicken used in Begging Hands by a 125 pound woman totally knock back guys about 200 to 250 pounds. And boy did they grunt and groan while flying backwards, I think it is just great.
But like anything, there is a time and place to use it!
:barf:

When I was taught the chicken kick I was told that it was a filler move to show category completion.

Any Thoughts?:asian:

The chicken kick has never been a favorite of mine but I kinda like the chicken knee. Same principal just with knees in a closer application of course. And I like to end the last knee with a more rounded motion and scrape down one leg of the opponent as I'm planting my weight.

I was taught the chicken kick as a closing gap move. We would use it in conjunction with a strike, usually to the head.
For example, you would fire a palm heel strike up and under the jaw, but instead of using a push step or shuffle to close the gap you would use the chicken kicks, nice and low, and demolish his ankles.
If you take into consideration, the big 3, height , width and depth, the palm strike deals with height and depth, the chickens deal with width and depth.
Hope this helps.

--Dave

:asian:

Originally posted by kenpo3631
When I was taught the chicken kick I was told that it was a filler move to show category completion.
Any Thoughts?:asian:

Who came up with this term catagory completion?

What catagory does it complet and why?

:asian:

It is a great kick for bridging the gap between you and an opponent. But remember when you leave the ground you might not land the way you intended if the target has anythig to say about it.

It is a dangerous kick as all kinds of Ariel's (or jumping kicks) are if used for self defense purposes. Leaving the ground, compounds factors that could prove to be problems. Balance, power, landing etc can all be effected and have adverse results vs. staying on the ground in the first place.

As to skill development (coordination, conditioning, expansion etc) and developing ones abilities and drilling maneuvers Ariel's are difficult and quite an accomplishment. So in my humble opinion a good thing to add to skill development but file for rare usage on the street.

Historically the kick was initially utilized to avoid a low chain whip, low sword attacks, and sweeps, then instead of just jumping to avoid a low attack, if one could actually "attack" the attacker while avoiding the action all the better. Still other Ariel's were fashioned after "vaulting" over a rock or fence and kicking the opponent in the same action, then eventually used without the vault to form the flying side kick.

Being able to use your environment while defending yourself is always a plus, kicking or punching. See the 8 Considerations for the list.

The name came from watching two chickens fighting. Since they have no arms they leap and use their talons to strike or defend with. Thus the name "Chicken Kick".

I know you guys just love this Martial Art Trivia! LOL
Someday we can have a game show!

:asian:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

I know you guys just love this Martial Art Trivia! LOL
Someday we can have a game show!


I know I do! But I'd suck on a game show about it!


Kind of like Jeopardy. I think I'd do okay on the show, so
long as the board wasn't filled with Subjects like "Elizabeathan
Poetry", or "Hamlet" ... which always seems to be the case.

Rob will write a book and give you all the study material you'll need.:p

I have never kicked a chicken before, but I have turkey bowled.

For those that don't know Turkey bowling is a great supermarket game played by the staff after the store closes at night. You take 10 large plastcs pop bottles and set them up like bowling pins. next you take a frozen turkey (It has to be frozen!) the old butter ball one had a great handle and you bowl, the game ends when the store manager catches you.

If you need to leave the ground then good luck. Remember that your target moves so the kick might just miss and your still in the air. That leaves you open for a nasty beaten.:(

like shootin birds out of the sky

I agree. lol...:asian:

If you guys hate chicken kicks wait till kicking set #2 roles around, ohhh mannnn!

you love that set.
:shrug:

Having been in TKD for so long, chicken kicks are pretty easy to do and can you get some momentum into that kick......:p


:asian:

:jediduel:
Although I don't do chicken kicks alot (when sparring), I will occasionaly do one to mix it up a bit. However, I like to make my second kick a roundhouse (a little more risky, but completely unexpected ;) )

FLY.

:asian:

Why is it called a chicken kick???? anyone ever seen a chicken do one of these :lol: :lol:

Actually the kick resembles the way a rooster fights in a cock fight.

My brain has a strange way of connecting things sometimes. When I was a younger man and a lower belt, I pondered the chicken kick. Coming from a TKD background, it is a way to add momentum to your high front kick, as well as provide a feint- but in Kenpo it doesn't work that way (though it can).

I was in a barnyard one time, with an indefinable amount of adult beverages in my system, and I thought I would kick a chicken (don't ask me why- cuz I can't explain, except that I grew up in rural Texas). If you have ever been around chickens, you know that "just up and kicking" one is out of the question. They scatter from me faster than pretty girls. But one came close....

Just on a lark I tried the "chicken kick" maneuver at that bird- the left foot motion made the chicken do a 180 degree turn and made it hit the right kick head-on! POOF!! Whacked that sucker!!

Now, I HIGHLY DOUBT that has any relevance at all to the name OR the intent of that particular kick, but it worked!

(BTW the chicken was none the worse for wear- though I bet it wouldn't work on her again- them chickens is smart)

Vince

Originally posted by vincefuess

My brain has a strange way of connecting things sometimes. When I was a younger man and a lower belt, I pondered the chicken kick. Coming from a TKD background, it is a way to add momentum to your high front kick, as well as provide a feint- but in Kenpo it doesn't work that way (though it can).

I was in a barnyard one time, with an indefinable amount of adult beverages in my system, and I thought I would kick a chicken (don't ask me why- cuz I can't explain, except that I grew up in rural Texas). If you have ever been around chickens, you know that "just up and kicking" one is out of the question. They scatter from me faster than pretty girls. But one came close....

Just on a lark I tried the "chicken kick" maneuver at that bird- the left foot motion made the chicken do a 180 degree turn and made it hit the right kick head-on! POOF!! Whacked that sucker!!

Now, I HIGHLY DOUBT that has any relevance at all to the name OR the intent of that particular kick, but it worked!

(BTW the chicken was none the worse for wear- though I bet it wouldn't work on her again- them chickens is smart)

Vince

I would have paid to have seen that.:rofl: :rofl:


Michael

I know that Movie with Eddie Murphy. But i never seen the Chicken Kick. what the heck is a Chicken Kick.

:EG:

I know I have the Chicken Kick AKA double front
kick in my bag of knowledge. I personally like
the kick.

As stated by others here, note only does it add
to the training and skill of the student it also
is good to mix things up.

I use it with both kicks, and I try to land both
with enough force to penetrate.

Now for Kirk, I believe, who said that he is big,
and has problems with this. I contend that this
is the perfect kick for him. One it will help you
develop balance and power, and two, no one will
really expect you to do this type of kick. :D

I am 6'3" and 265 lbs. and I do this kick and
enjoy it.

I did appreciate the history lesson for the chain
whip and the low sword attacks.

Thank you all

Rich
:cool:

is a kick using both legs to kick with ....... first one then the other while in the air...

:asian:

The chicken kick is effective in that the first kick (somehow) sets the dynamics in motion for the REAL (second) kick. Any body who has been in ANY martial art is familiar with this concept. I have yet to determine exactly how the dynamics work together to enhance the performance of the kick, but they do.

BUT- the first precursor kick cannot be (in my opinion) counted as an effective kick. It makes a TERRIFIC feint, but in my personal arsenal it will never be considered a kick. My kicks are finishing moves- I throw them when the path is clear and they are properly set up, and they are designed to end the conflict (or at the very least do very significant damage). Feet are not "tag" weapons in my arsenal, which is why a majority of those I practice for use are thrusting or TRUE spinning kicks which focus every bit of the centrifugal force into the target.

The "chicken start" as I call it can be applied to any frontal kick, the front and the roundhouse being the obvious choices, and I use it solely as a distraction from the real kick.

I love kicks. They are the nuclear warheads in my toolbox. Most conflicts though, are diffused with my "conventional" weapons- my hands. The kicks are saved until the time is right to pull out the BIG GUNS.

As I look at the "chicken kick" for only 2 main purposes. The first being if your using the rear-forward chicken kick the first kick is nothing more than an exaggerated step designed to gauge your distance to the attacker. This kick may or may not hit or work. The second reason is used in application when your behind someone while their on the ground. Leaping crane for instance. I personally like not "love" after the elbow sandwhich to stand erect and do the forward-rear chicken. Now my forward rear chicken is a right front scoop to the groin (perfect allignment) and as I'm in the air a left front snap ball kick to the right kidney. Then left front crossover cover out. This works great for me.
Just my opinion but works awfully well for me.
Jason Farnsworth

Originally posted by arnisador



But you're not grounded, if I understand correctly--I can see how the snap of the kick might penetrate and might hurt, but not how it could drive (that is, move) anyone anywhere. If the intention is to use it in part as a setup for a followup technique that depends on driving the person upwards then I would think it would be necessary to have one foot on the ground. Perhaps I'm just not visualizing it correctly.


I don't think the 2nd kick actually drives the body upwards. It is more of a reaction of the opponent. He stands up the same way he would bend over with a light groin kick. But, the kick can cause pain, so as the opponent stands up in reaction to the kick, he then reacts to the pain, which leads to other openings.

Dave

I think people are getting confused with the term 'drives'.
A thrusting kick will 'drive' an opponent regardless of whether they feel pain or not, the force of the kick will move them in a certain direction. That being said the second kick in the chicken kick is not a thrusting type motion therefore it doesn't drive anybody anywhere.

When a snapping kick is used it not so much drives as strikes and then the reaction you get you'd better be prepared for. At worst the reaction can catch you unprepared and cause you damage such as a head butt if your arm buckle in Lone kimono is on too much of a downward plane. At the next level you don't get hit with anything but your opponent's reaction has put them in a unfavourable position for you to follow up (if it is required of course). The third situation is that you expect the reaction and capitalize on it. We know if we kick somebody in the groin they are going to bend at the hips. If we kick them in the chest while they are in the process of bending over are they going to clutch their chest and fall on their face.......no they are going to hinge at the hips and straighten up provided your kick is to the upper chest/solar plexus area and not to the stomach area. As they straighten up use something on a downward direction utilizing borrowed force and gravitational marriage to maximize the effectiveness of your strike.

So....no the second front kick doesn't 'drive' the opponent anywhere, regardless the opponent will straighten up from the second front kick.

Thanks,
Rob

it got its name because it is funky..... any way you do it.. LOL
:rofl:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

it got its name because it is funky..... any way you do it.. LOL
:rofl:

Thats just not right. A very Bad joke!:rofl:

as a short rapid fire twin kick action. the first kick is short and sharp as a kick should be, however I don't "drive" forward.... rather just plant down and deliver the next kick immediately. Too many try to cover distance (intentionally or unintentionally) and that makes for a bad kick.
:asian:

I use chicken kicks a lot during sparring. The first motion works great as a fake, gets their guard down, and then you come around with a roundhouse kick, side kick or front kick with the other leg.

the roundhouse chicken kick has won me many a sparring match. when their hands are down trying to block a left front kick, you twist and land a right roundhouse kick (lightly) on the ear of their headgear.

Many years ago when I trained with a TKD instructor we called what you described as a double kick. There are many forms of this particular kick. The gentleman in which I'm referring to was in the olympic trials and well, I just got hit with many of them and hard. What he would do is blast you with a left roundhouse/or front kick and as you were starting to double over or attempt to cover then wham you got nailed with the right roundhouse to the side of the head. The chicken kick will lack some power performed in that manner. The actual double kick performed like this was extremly hard especially if you can execute the correct technique and form for this kick. This comes down to hip rotation and torque if performed correctly. This just happens to be one or variation and/or opinion.
Jason Farnsworth

Chicken kicks can be another maneauver to gauge distance to an opponent as in SNAKING TALON. It does not have to bring you up in the air, reference the chicken-knife in PRANCE OF THE TIGER. I have seen BEGGING HANDS done as yall (Texan for "you plural") describe, focusing on height, but it could also gauge in if the 1st kick knocks the opponent back as verses bending them over. I have also gauged BACK in BEGGING HANDS, just as a "What If" when experimenting with RANGE.

Catagory Completion - where did it come from? I know Rod Henson, one of my Black Belts who lived in New Orleons for a couple of years and worked out with Huk quite a bit, did an increadable amount of catagory completion in his knife set for 2nd Black. I also remember reading about catagory completion when Huk Palanas & Tom Kelly were working on the original manuals. Anybody else know for sure? Huk talks about it every seminar I have had with him.

-Michael
UKS-Texas

It's his term.
:asian:

a chicken kick, at least the way I was taught, is not a double kick.

its a knee with the first leg, basically a fake, and before you put that one down, you switch feet in mid air and kick with the other leg, so you've got them thinking you're going to throw a left kick and they're looking at and checking your left leg, and you hit em with the right leg instead (or vice versa)

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

It's his term.
:asian:

So, are you saying the _concept_ is only found in Huk Planas' stuff, or the _term_? I was under the impression that Mr. Parker did systematic investigation (necessarily categorizing everything) when he made AK. If so, it's a question of semantics. If not, then I have to rethink my understanding of Kenpo -- not just history or origin, but Kenpo itself, as it would mean that Kenpo is not as systematic as I had thought.

Peace
Scott

If it's specifically and solely Mr. Planas' term he phrased but the phrase is often used down the Planas line of instructors. :o I just know from experience of being at his seminars that he uses the phrase from time to time.
Jason Farnsworth

Hey, hey, hey - Maybe I missed something on the string, but what distinguishes a Jump Kick from a Chicken Kick, it that the Chicken Kick has 2 kicks and one jump. A streight Jump kick uses the front or rear leg for lift, and the 2nd leg kicks, as in flying side kick or karate kid kinda front kick.

25 or so years ago I was in Durango, Mexico for a summer. I had the unfortunate experience of being invited to a cock fight, since it was the family I lived with taking me to the "Fair", I could not decline, I was a stranger in a strange land. Guess what, the cocks actually have metal fighting spurs tied to their legs, and they actually do Chicken Kicks, in the air with one leap (wings are clipped), and using both legs to strike. I know, I know ... this is way more info than you wanted. But I just realized where the name Chicken Kick may have come from. Not saying that it did ... but it may have. Otherwise they would be front jump kicks (which we also learn), or leaping kicks or something.

Hmmmm......??

-Michael
UKS-Kenpo

A jump kick is any kick where both feet are off the ground when contact is made.

chicken kick, at least the way I was taught, is not a double kick. its a knee with the first leg, basically a fake, and before you put that one down, you switch feet in mid air and kick with the other leg,

This is how I was shown how to do one as well. In TKD we tried to hit with both feet when sparring though as described by others.


:asian:

Originally posted by Klondike93


quote: chicken kick, at least the way I was taught, is not a double kick. its a knee with the first leg, basically a fake, and before you put that one down, you switch feet in mid air and kick with the other leg,


That (in my book) is a bicycle kick, not a chicken kick. With a chicken kick a snap kick is made (typically to the groin) and then the other leg jumps up and kicks again, landing on the original leg first.

Ian.

I've never heard of a bicycle kick....not to say that it doesn't exist...I've just never heard of it.
:confused:

I have not heard it called that either...... we used to call it a "hitch" kick - when the front leg was just used to fake or elevate for the second action (actual kick). However, I also do, do a double kick...... kick with the front leg then kick with the back leg both equally strong kick actions.

:asian:

I was taught that the bycycle kick was an advancing kick that cover a good distance and that very good kickers an throw more than just the 2 kicks.

Bicycle..... well you do kick twice so the Bi part I understand......

:confused:

The only time i've seen a bicycle kick was in the first mortal kombat movie. The fight scene where Lui kang fought Reptile in an abandoned building. If someone can pull that kick off then my hat's off to them. It's actually in the mortal kombat video game. Now before you pass judgement on me I have an 8yr. old son.
Jason Farnsworth

Here is 'Courting the Tiger' utilizing the chicken kick.. Please tell me Dennis if we are teaching it correctly.. The kick does take some practice specially for us with bad knees and over 40..~! by the time the kick is called for.. the bad guy is on his knees so we aren't dealing with alot of height.. unless he's Kareem Abdul Jabar~!

12. COURTING THE TIGER (left and right arm grab)
1. With feet together and opponents executing grabs on both of your arms, step back and to your left to 8:00
with your right foot (right rear twist stance) in the hope of trying to stomp foot of left opponent as your right hand
grabs your opponent's right arm (opponent to your right) and pulls him toward you, simultaneously push the
opponent who is to your left away from you with your left arm (anchoring you left elbow down and into left
opponent's right ribs).
2. Deliver a right knife edge toward 3:00 to outside of the left knee of opponent to your right.
3. Immediately execute a right crossover toward the opponent on you left by planting your right foot in front, and to
the left of your left foot (right front twist stance facing 9:00) and have your left knee strike up and behind the back
of the right knee of left opponent. (This is done to lift his right leg off of the ground and place all of opponent's weight
onto his left leg.)
4. While your left leg is still in the air, execute a left knife-edge kick to the left inner knee of opponent to your left.
5. Plant your left foot back toward 3:00 into a left reverse twist stance as you execute a right outward back knuckle
strike to head or any opening on opponent to your right, whether he be standing, kneeling, or otherwise.
6. Without hesitation deliver a chicken kick (double kick with left foot then right foot) to opponent on your left (left
foot kicking to opponent's ribs and right foot to opponent's face or solar plexus).
7. From right kicking position plant your right foot toward 9:00 into a right neutral bow as you strike to left
opponent's temple or face with an upward right stiff arm lifting back knuckle strike.
8. Immediately deliver a right thrusting lifting stiff-leg kick to underneath of opponent's jaw who is to your right.
9. Right front crossover and cover out twice, remaining equal distance from both opponent's as you cover out
toward 6:00.
[B]

Tess,
I believe that move is a chicken kick. Have you been able to use a double front kick though? We've had many problems with that kick to get the exact targets in our class. In our class we execute a left front kick then follow up with a right roundhouse to the face. This just seems easier to deliver plus you get some good targets.
Jason Farnsworth

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

The only time i've seen a bicycle kick was in the first mortal kombat movie. The fight scene where Lui kang fought Reptile in an abandoned building. If someone can pull that kick off then my hat's off to them. It's actually in the mortal kombat video game. Now before you pass judgement on me I have an 8yr. old son.
Jason Farnsworth

Firstly, I don't mind admitting that the Mortal Kombat films aren't actually too bad... :) although hardly the best I've seen.

(incidentally, someone has taped Kilroy over the first hour of my Perfect Weapon tape, leaving me with only the last 20 minutes, so I'm not happy! At least they didn't tape over The Young Master which is at the end though (2nd best martial arts film ever!))

A bicycle kick was just what I was told it was called, it kinda goes in a set with the chicken kick and the butterfly kick.

I would say it was more like the kick he does at the end of the first Karate Kid film (without the crappy hand positions) than something in Mortal Kombat, there's only meant to be one fake and one kick rather than several.

I don't think Mr. Parker would have apporved of any jumping multiple kicks at all! I have heard he didn't really approve of kicking above the waist either!

To clarify, a chicken kick snaps with the rear leg (probably to the groin), then jumps and kicks with the other leg, landing in the original stance.

A bicycle kick starts almost with a rear knee motion (but more upwards) and then jumps and kicks with the other leg, again landing in the original stance (and yes, you can cover distance with it, but you can't kick 20 times and go half a mile like in a film....)

These are under my definitions anyway :)

Ian.

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

Tess,
I believe that move is a chicken kick. Have you been able to use a double front kick though? We've had many problems with that kick to get the exact targets in our class. In our class we execute a left front kick then follow up with a right roundhouse to the face. This just seems easier to deliver plus you get some good targets.
Jason Farnsworth

Jason,

Yes that is a chicken kick alright :) and it's not hard to reach your target with it as you are already in position standing in a left reverse twist stance .. the left foot snaps out first then the right during the jump. I would say this is a double jumping front kick.. and the target area would be changeable depending on many factors, height and depth of attacker would vary where the kick targets. I believe what you are utilizing would be considered fine as you are not changing the technique.. still using a left right kick sequence :) Same weapons, same technique.. though the time taken to plant after the front kick then to the round .. may in essence give the attacker[s] just that much time to recover. Hence getting the left attacker down and swinging back with that back kick to the right attacker as fast as possible :)
I'm sure there's other variations~!

Tess

To use the roundhouse kick. I can make a front snap roundhouse kick work extremly well for me. That kick doesn't take me (personally) any extra time. If you look at the attacker on the ground facing 12 or slightly towards you immediately after the front kick the roundhouse just blasts the face it has the right angle and feel. Once again that's just me & I do like to kick & just one more example on how to do the technique slightly different. I just don't like using the double front kick.
Jason Farnsworth;)

Your description of Courting the Tiger is right on. I do it the same in the ideal phase.

now for us old and non~aerialists..... there are a number of modifications that we can use..... we now enter the "what if phase" what if we can't (due to knee problems) follow an "ideal" example. LOL here is your ticket to modify for yourself..... but not have to change the "standard" which many others may benefit from. For me to make exact modification suggestions I need to watch you and determine what would be best for you. Soon you may be under the gun:rofl:

:asian:

Originally posted by satans.barber
I don't think Mr. Parker would have apporved of any jumping multiple kicks at all! I have heard he didn't really approve of kicking above the waist either!
Ian.

Ian, take it from me, one who studied with Mr. Parker personally for many years. If he didn't approve of jumping multiple kicks at all........ why would he have them in "HIS" system? He was not so shallow to only include maneuvers that he personally liked or could do but included all that would be of value to many. Sure he tailored his Art to himself as do all the knowledgeable Kenpoists but that does not mean delete or "not approve" of possible maneuvers that some may use very effectively.

As to kicking above the waist....... he most certainly did!!! Of course he might have kicked them in the groin first or possibly knees to lower their height so as to make the head shot or torso kick easier........ but that has to do with experience and understanding what Ed Parker was all about.

Remember...... Don't believe anything you hear (To hear is to doubt), only half of what you see (To see is to be deceived)...... but to feel is to believe.

:asian:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Your description of Courting the Tiger is right on. I do it the same in the ideal phase.

now for us old and non~aerialists..... there are a number of modifications that we can use..... we now enter the "what if phase" what if we can't (due to knee problems) follow an "ideal" example. LOL here is your ticket to modify for yourself..... but not have to change the "standard" which many others may benefit from. For me to make exact modification suggestions I need to watch you and determine what would be best for you. Soon you may be under the gun:rofl:

:asian:

Dennis.. Oh good.. *does the non aerial snoopy happy dance* hehee. ..so I better be on my bestest behavior eh.. Hoping the under the gun means you're coming up soon :))
Can't wait~!!!
*gee wonder if they still have those springs you can attach to shoes that I had as a kid* they would give me 'bounce' without hurting these old knees~! !:boing1:

Psst.. what was that song you were singing on the phone the other night.. (hey you have a great voice btw..~!)

Tess,
Where are you located geographically? We are neighbors I'd like to know. If there is an open seminar (possability) with Mr. C. I would like to know about it!!!!
Jason Farnsworth:D

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

Tess,
Where are you located geographically? We are neighbors I'd like to know. If there is an open seminar (possability) with Mr. C. I would like to know about it!!!!
Jason Farnsworth:D

Jason,

Our School is in Shepherdstown, WV, we are in the eastern panhandle on the Va, Pa and Md borders, near Martinsburg WV, Winchester,Va, bout an hour from DC.
We are hoping to have Mr. C. come up early September if not before.. things are in the works for a seminar :) We also teach at Shepherd College and would like our students there to benefit
*hopefully Mr. C. can make it before then too !*

You're more than welcome if you're in our area to stop in at the school ~! Just let me know and I can send directions etc :)

Tess

Ok, so we have talked enough about chicken kicks. Just as a tease and encouraging word, Kicking Set #2 was introduced. Here are the first few moves.

KICKING SET 2

Opening: attention stance. Bow. Drop to a meditating Horse stance.

1. Have your right foot step back to 6:00 into a left neutral bow, facing 12:00.
2. Execute a front chicken kick (front leg then rear leg) to 12:00, and plant into a right neutral bow, facing 12:00.
3. Execute a front chicken kick (rear leg then front leg) to 12:00, and plant into a right neutral bow, facing 12:00.
4. Execute a back chicken kick (front leg then rear leg) to 6:00, and plant your left foot to 6:00 into a right neutral bow, facing 12:00.
5. Execute a back chicken kick (rear leg then front leg) to 6:00, and plant your right foot to 12:00 into a right neutral bow, facing 12:00.
6. Execute a front chicken kick (front leg then rear leg) to 12:00, and plant your left foot to 12:00 into a left neutral bow, facing 12:00.
7. Execute a front chicken kick (rear leg then front leg) to 12:00, and plant into a left neutral bow, facing 12:00.
8. Execute a back chicken kick (front leg then rear leg) to 6:00, and plant your right foot to 6:00 into a left neutral bow, facing 12:00.
9. Execute a back chicken kick (rear leg then front leg) to 12:00, and plant your left foot to 12:00 into a left neutral bow, facing 12:00.
10. Execute a side chicken kick to 3:00 (left thrusting sweep kick then right snapping knife-edge kick), and plant your right foot towards 12:00 into a right neutral bow, facing 12:00.
11. Execute a side chicken kick to 9:00 (right thrusting sweep kick then left snapping knife-edge kick), and plant your left foot towards 12:00 into a left neutral bow, facing 12:00.

So on and so forth. The kicks do not have to be high, but they do have to be done correctly if physically able. It is a fairly long set and lots of fun for kickers, 3 way kicks, scoops, combination kicks, etc. But near the end of a test, your legs sure feel heavy.

Play with these ideas and see what else occurs to you. This is where the idea of gauging range occurs in the set.

Oos,
-Michael
UKS-Texas

I'm tired out just reading that ~!! Methinks I'll leave Kicking Set 2 to the Kids :))

Wow, all this for a chicken kick. Imagine the number of pages we could fill if we were describe a 720 deg or a 540 deg tourny kick.

:D

Rob

Originally posted by Goldendragon7


As to kicking above the waist....... he most certainly did!!! Of course he might have kicked them in the groin first or possibly knees to lower their height so as to make the head shot or torso kick easier........ but that has to do with experience and understanding what Ed Parker was all about.

Remember...... Don't believe anything you hear (To hear is to doubt), only half of what you see (To see is to be deceived)...... but to feel is to believe.


Hmm, Phil told me that! Course I'm not old enough to have met with or trained with Mr. Parker, so I don't know what he did or didn't say.

I'd rather believe what you say though, you do seem considerably more knowledgable that Mr. Cawood (no harm in a bir of honesty is there? Well, unless he reads this and kicks the crap out of me when he sees me...!).

Ian.

Just sharing my knowledge to those that wish to listen from one who actually did have the honor to study with "the man" and shared many, many hours with him all over the world. Take it as my responsibility to continue Kenpo as strongly as it should be even if it means a little correction here or there.

:asian:

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Take it as my responsibility to continue Kenpo as strongly as it should be even if it means a little correction here or there.

:asian:

Please, correct away, whenever and wherever. Ignorance, contrary to popular belief, is not bliss!

Ian.

Originally posted by KenpoTess



Jason,

Our School is in Shepherdstown, WV, we are in the eastern panhandle on the Va, Pa and Md borders, near Martinsburg WV, Winchester,Va, bout an hour from DC.
We are hoping to have Mr. C. come up early September if not before.. things are in the works for a seminar :) We also teach at Shepherd College and would like our students there to benefit
*hopefully Mr. C. can make it before then too !*

You're more than welcome if you're in our area to stop in at the school ~! Just let me know and I can send directions etc :)

Tess
Jason,
We're in the Eastern Pan-Handle (not the one with Wheeling, the other one), so we're across the state from where you are. What is the closest WV town to you? That will let me get a better idea of how far away you are.
Mike

I live about 45 minutes directly north of columbus ohio. I was kind of hoping you were going to tell me you were in wheeling but that's the way it goes. It woujld have been a shorter drive. Please let me know if anything materializes.
Jason Farnsworth

I'm about 4 hours from Pittsburg

You'll find all the chickens you'll ever want!!!

Buffalo Wings, extra hot

Althought I don't eat wings.... I love:angry: hot stuff:flammad:

:D