TKD, TKD and more TKD

[Manny]

Last friday night I picked up my wife and two daughters for a ride, it was pretty hot and humidity so we went for ice creams for every one and to had a nice evening in family. Just across the ice cream parlor there was a well... a very nice McDojan... ups!!! Well the dojan was crowded so I decided to go and see the class while my girls where eating their ice creams.

This dojan is a large one,very nice and there were kids from around 10 to maybe 20 years old kicking shields using tornados kicks at chest level, ohhh yes TKD is a beautiful art and very flashy, damn I tough... if only I were 17 again.... those flashy kicks will be a piece of cake.

I was returning to the ice cream parlor when I saw a belt rack and counted 9 belts before the black one, ohhh I said..mmmm white,yellow,orange,green,purple,blue,brown,maroon and red.... well I said this is a McDojan so a lot of belts, alot of money.

Back in 1980's the belts we had were, white,yellow,green,blue,red and black, very simple not to many belts,in my actual dojan we have, white,yellow,green,blue,marron,red and black.

When I was aproaching my family afther leaving the TKD Dojan my daughters said to me..... Ohhhh daddy you must love TKD you were staring and staring at the dojan and you looked like a boy in a candy store... and yes I was.

I just love TKD.

Manny

[DarkPhoenix]

There has always been 10 "belts" in TKD for as long as I can remember, but more often than not, they were just different levels of that particular belt. For example:

In our dojang there are 10 gups and 9 Dans:

10th Gup- White Belt
9th Gup- Yellow Belt
8th Gup- Green Belt
7th Gup- Purple Belt
6th Gup- Red belt
5th Gup- Red belt w/ 1 Stripe
4th Gup- Red Belt w/ 2 Stripes
3rd Gup- Red Belt w/ 3 Stripes
2nd Gup- Brown belt
1st Gup- Candidate for BB (Brown Belt with Black Stripe)

Some people just want to see a different colour for every level they reach.

[terryl965]

10 gups right but the color changes alot between orgs.

[DarkPhoenix]

10 gups right but the color changes alot between orgs.

Definitely. In my previous dojang, red belt was the 2nd/1st gup belts and the brown was a 3rd/4th gup.

[Dave Leverich]

Yeah, the gups are still the same, just many orgs have added belts instead of stripes for each. Mine was white/yellow/green/blue/red/black, now there's ones between each.

Btw, add a G on Dojan(g) Manny :).

[epi-do]

For belts, we do the following:

White
Yellow
Orange
Light Blue
Green
Purple
Brown
Red
Dark Blue
Dark blue w/ white stripe
Black W/ White stripe running the length of the belt
Black

Up through purple, testing is done every two months. However, that does not mean that you test every two months. You still must be prepared to do so, and know the required cirriculum. You can expect to test, at best, every other test and sometimes it will take longer. If no one is ready to test for a particular testing date, no test is held. However, it allows those that are ready to test to do so once they reach the point that the instructors say they are good to go.

Up through dark blue w/ white stripe, tests are scheduled every 3 months. Like the lower belts, that does not mean that you are testing every three months though. It just means that there is a test date on the calendar should there be students ready to test.

Our black belt candidates (those with the black w/ white stripe belts) have tests offered every 6 months.

If you do the math, in theory, you could get a black belt in as little as 2 1/2 years, but the average for the dojang is 3 1/2-4 years. Our master has just found that it is easier for him to have a set testing schedule. Tests are always the last Saturday of the testing month, so it is easy to know when you are going to be testing once you are eligible.

[Manny]

Back in mid 80's in Jido Kwan the Kups wehere this way:

1.-White.
2.-White with a yellow bar (advanced white).
3.-Yellow.
4.-Yellow with a green bar (advanced yellow).
5.-green.
6.-green with a blue bar (advanced green).
7.-blue.
8.-Blue with a red bar (advanced blue).
9.-Red.
10.-Red with a black bar (advanced red).
11.-Black.

The kup teste were every three months but I did them every six doing the mid (advanced promotion) and full color change belt.

Manny

[clfsean]

In my day we had 5 belts.

White
Yellow 7
Green 6 5 4
Red 3 2 1
Black 1 - 10

That's all we had. Some other schools/orgs in town had blues & browns in there as well. I remember when ATA came out with the "Camo". I almost choked.

Now most school have 1 belt for the each of10 gups. That's fine. As long as the training is valid & functional with solid basics... start 'em off at black so the questions are fewer & far between.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Back in mid 80's in Jido Kwan the Kups wehere this way:

1.-White.
2.-White with a yellow bar (advanced white).
3.-Yellow.
4.-Yellow with a green bar (advanced yellow).
5.-green.
6.-green with a blue bar (advanced green).
7.-blue.
8.-Blue with a red bar (advanced blue).
9.-Red.
10.-Red with a black bar (advanced red).
11.-Black.

The kup teste were every three months but I did them every six doing the mid (advanced promotion) and full color change belt.

Manny


This was pretty much the standard back in the day. Still is in some places.

[Touch Of Death]

Last friday night I picked up my wife and two daughters for a ride, it was pretty hot and humidity so we went for ice creams for every one and to had a nice evening in family. Just across the ice cream parlor there was a well... a very nice McDojan... ups!!! Well the dojan was crowded so I decided to go and see the class while my girls where eating their ice creams.

This dojan is a large one,very nice and there were kids from around 10 to maybe 20 years old kicking shields using tornados kicks at chest level, ohhh yes TKD is a beautiful art and very flashy, damn I tough... if only I were 17 again.... those flashy kicks will be a piece of cake.

I was returning to the ice cream parlor when I saw a belt rack and counted 9 belts before the black one, ohhh I said..mmmm white,yellow,orange,green,purple,blue,brown,maroon and red.... well I said this is a McDojan so a lot of belts, alot of money.

Back in 1980's the belts we had were, white,yellow,green,blue,red and black, very simple not to many belts,in my actual dojan we have, white,yellow,green,blue,marron,red and black.

When I was aproaching my family afther leaving the TKD Dojan my daughters said to me..... Ohhhh daddy you must love TKD you were staring and staring at the dojan and you looked like a boy in a candy store... and yes I was.

I just love TKD.

MannyHey, the more belt levels the better. Handing someone a blackbelt after two years should be a crime.
Sean

[DarkPhoenix]

Hey, the more belt levels the better. Handing someone a blackbelt after two years should be a crime.
Sean


Very true, but adding belts, to me, is just a way to bilk more money out of the students and parents. That is one of the things I hate about my dojang. We test every 3 months for levels on our 1st Dan. Currently I am testing for my 2nd level, which the test is $50 USD plus another $12 minimum for wood.

Oh well, at least the instruction is really good.

[dancingalone]

Very true, but adding belts, to me, is just a way to bilk more money out of the students and parents. That is one of the things I hate about my dojang. We test every 3 months for levels on our 1st Dan. Currently I am testing for my 2nd level, which the test is $50 USD plus another $12 minimum for wood.

Oh well, at least the instruction is really good.

That's actually cheap comparatively, DP. The commercial TKD schools in my area charge hundreds of dollars for a dan test.

3 month tests seem to be standard. I guess you have to keep the doors open somehow.

[DarkPhoenix]

That's actually cheap comparatively, DP. The commercial TKD schools in my area charge hundreds of dollars for a dan test.

3 month tests seem to be standard. I guess you have to keep the doors open somehow.


That isn't the Dan test, that is the level testing between 1st and second dan. The 2nd Dan test is $200 plus the $50 for each of the 8 levels. That is $600 for a second dan basically.

3 month testing cycle is fine by me, but having to test ever three months for NOT getting a new belt to me is retarded. But I am not going to question my boss. It is his dojang after all.

[dancingalone]

That isn't the Dan test, that is the level testing between 1st and second dan. The 2nd Dan test is $200 plus the $50 for each of the 8 levels. That is $600 for a second dan basically.

3 month testing cycle is fine by me, but having to test ever three months for NOT getting a new belt to me is retarded. But I am not going to question my boss. It is his dojang after all.

Wow. I would have a beef with that myself. $50 for essentially a "stripe" rank seems excessive, especially if there's multiples of them.

I'm putting up one of my students for 2nd dan in goju-ryu karate. I'm going to charge him $300, but that's primarily to help defray the cost of flying in my teacher from out of state. I told him I could give him the test for free, but that would mean only myself as a judge along with some other goju people outside of our lineage. He elected to bring in 'grandpa' and I'm glad since that means we'll all get some mat time with sensei.

Good luck with your exam.

[DarkPhoenix]

Wow. I would have a beef with that myself. $50 for essentially a "stripe" rank seems excessive, especially if there's multiples of them.

I'm putting up one of my students for 2nd dan in goju-ryu karate. I'm going to charge him $300, but that's primarily to help defray the cost of flying in my teacher from out of state. I told him I could give him the test for free, but that would mean only myself as a judge along with some other goju people outside of our lineage. He elected to bring in 'grandpa' and I'm glad since that means we'll all get some mat time with sensei.

Good luck with your exam.


I can totally understand the cost of the rank test itself, but for the interim levels that just seems overkill.

Thanks for the good tidings, and I wish you and you student good luck on his nidan!

[jim777]

Back in mid 80's in Jido Kwan the Kups wehere this way:

1.-White.
2.-White with a yellow bar (advanced white).
3.-Yellow.
4.-Yellow with a green bar (advanced yellow).
5.-green.
6.-green with a blue bar (advanced green).
7.-blue.
8.-Blue with a red bar (advanced blue).
9.-Red.
10.-Red with a black bar (advanced red).
11.-Black.

The kup teste were every three months but I did them every six doing the mid (advanced promotion) and full color change belt.

Manny

that's how we do it in our place, but the 'bars' are actually electrical tape :)

[sadantkd]

Very true, but adding belts, to me, is just a way to bilk more money out of the students and parents. That is one of the things I hate about my dojang. We test every 3 months for levels on our 1st Dan. Currently I am testing for my 2nd level, which the test is $50 USD plus another $12 minimum for wood.

Oh well, at least the instruction is really good.


Actually, the thing that annoyed me even more than the money was messing up nice embroidered black belts with all that tape. I don't do it at my school. We do have tips on color belts though for techniques, poomsae and knowledge to show the student is ready in the corresponding area for his test. There's no charge for the tips, of course.

[K31]

hey, the more belt levels the better. Handing someone a blackbelt after two years should be a crime.
Sean

+1

[Twin Fist]

That isn't the Dan test, that is the level testing between 1st and second dan. The 2nd Dan test is $200 plus the $50 for each of the 8 levels. That is $600 for a second dan basically.



leave, leave and never look back

[Carol]

leave, leave and never look back

It's a different situation when its your boss that has implemtened the price structure...

[msmitht]

1. The belt structure, which was created by Jigoro Kano Sensei (founder of Judo), was white, blue, brown and black. Some schools argue that he put purple in between blue and brown but we are not here to argue that point. When TKD was brought to the US there was :
White
Yellow
Green
Blue
Red
Black
2. Most school's used a stripe on each belt to separate gup/kup levels. In the 80's it became popular to give more stripes/belts so that it would take longer for children to reach BB and to keep them from feeling stagnant.
3. I knew a GM who made each BB "test" at regular intervals. It is not a bad Idea as it forces students to follow a clear, structured program. The problem is with the money that is charged and the extra stripes/stars/patches you will get/have to buy. If it was free (Minus cost of breaking materials, of course) then I would say it was ok.
4. Paying 600 dollars for a 2nd dan test is ridiculus. It costs 120 to order the 2nd poom/dan from KKW. What is the extra money for? I can see 50 for a new embroidered belt. Maybe another 100 for a new Do-Bok. 20 for Wood etc...

[Twin Fist]

jhoon rhee didnt use red, so NO, when TKD came to the us, there was no red.

rhee's belt system was white, green, brown, black

[padre]

I just this weekend tested up from white to "high white", but the certificate handed to me reads "9 Kub", so I don't concern myself too much with what color is strapped around my waist.

I'm became a TKD junkie pretty fast. When I burned my feet yesterday (2nd degree on the ball of each foot, so the doc, whose wife is 4th dan, says no TKD for a while), I thought, "Bugger, how long is this going to take me out?"

I then dropped to my knees and started working on fingertip push-ups and abdominal routines, figuring I'll work around it. heh

I was never this motivated before TKD.

[DarkPhoenix]

leave, leave and never look backIt's a different situation when its your boss that has implemtened the price structure...

Yes very true. I may leave after my 2nd dan if I can find a legit Hapkido dojang in the area, but they are few and very far between. If I can't find a HKD dojang, I may leave KMAs altogether to either get into ken(m)po, or kyokushin.

That is a year down the road anyway.


Actually, the thing that annoyed me even more than the money was messing up nice embroidered black belts with all that tape. I don't do it at my school. We do have tips on color belts though for techniques, poomsae and knowledge to show the student is ready in the corresponding area for his test. There's no charge for the tips, of course.


Fortunately, sbn has implemented a chevron for the ranks in between chodan and eedan that goes on the dobak, so no ruining the pretty belt.

[TKD_Father]

I thought I read something General Choi wrote about 9 being a special number, so there were 9 Gups.

[msmitht]

jhoon rhee didnt use red, so NO, when TKD came to the us, there was no red.

rhee's belt system was white, green, brown, black

Was Jhoon Rhee the 1st tkd instructor to come here? I always thought that there were others who came b4 him. The ITF system was w,y,gr,bl,red and then black.

[dancingalone]

Was Jhoon Rhee the 1st tkd instructor to come here? I always thought that there were others who came b4 him. The ITF system was w,y,gr,bl,red and then black.

The two earliest I thought were Jhoon Rhee and S. Henry Cho. Rhee arrived in the US in 1959, and Cho came in 1961 according to these two sources, although the Cho article is a bit ambiguous whether he arrived in 1961 or whether that was just the date he finished his graduate studies in the US. Someone name some names if you can think of any earlier.

http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=1012
http://www.henrycho.com/hcho.html