Help me choose a new MA.

[vin2k0]

I've been studying karate now for 9 years and am wondering whether or not to try another art. I'm curious how it would compare to what i already know. Jujitsu seems appealing to me but how would i be starting from scratch if i am used to being knowledgable? Any help would be appreciated. What MA would you recommend me picking up? im know pretty much nothing about any other MA so thought id ask in here. Also, which art is a little more of a full-contact art?

[moromoro]

you havent really been studying karate for that long, i suggest learning an art which can complement your skills.
how about muay thai, this will improve your overall striking skills


thanks

terry

[Yari]

Originally posted by vin2k0
I've been studying karate now for 9 years and am wondering whether or not to try another art. I'm curious how it would compare to what i already know. Jujitsu seems appealing to me but how would i be starting from scratch if i am used to being knowledgable? Any help would be appreciated. What MA would you recommend me picking up? im know pretty much nothing about any other MA so thought id ask in here. Also, which art is a little more of a full-contact art?

Jujitsu is a comain term used by a lot of styles. But you proably could find something that should fit nicley. Americain kempo should be a good bet.

But it does come down to what do you want. Something to complement you ; grappling or weapon usage. Or is it a question about trying something more fluid, or totally different. Are we talking more philosophy, or?

But come to think about it, it would be like starting over, and the same concerns you had then, will be the same concerns now. The only difference is that you should be able to spot what you want easier.

/Yari

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by vin2k0
I've been studying karate now for 9 years and am wondering whether or not to try another art. I'm curious how it would compare to what i already know. Jujitsu seems appealing to me but how would i be starting from scratch if i am used to being knowledgable? Any help would be appreciated. What MA would you recommend me picking up? im know pretty much nothing about any other MA so thought id ask in here. Also, which art is a little more of a full-contact art?


9 years is not very long.
It takes most people about 8 years to get shodan.
I have tried/done many other arts…….judo, kendo, naginata, sumo, jujutsu, etc….

If you are wanting to use more grabbing and throwing type moves karate already has them in it…………it’s called tutie.
My teacher actually coined this word by combing two languages…. Okinawan “tui” and Japanese “te”. He didn’t invent the art but was the person responsible for the word.
I find it kind of funny to hear karate people outside of my teacher’s organization use the word “tuite” when describing the grappling type art they practice since they never trained with my teacher.
This actually supports my ideas about people using “martial buzz words” like tuite, soke and the like with out actually knowing what they mean or where they come from.

Anywayz………I trained in other arts not to become ranked in them but to try and understand how to use my art (Karate) against them.
It was interesting as well as helpful.
I recommend exposing yourself to other arts not necessarily to master them but to prepare yourself against them.

“Know yourself and your enemy and in 100 battles you will be victorious”

[silencethehero]

Originally posted by vin2k0
I've been studying karate now for 9 years and am wondering whether or not to try another art. I'm curious how it would compare to what i already know. Jujitsu seems appealing to me but how would i be starting from scratch if i am used to being knowledgable? Any help would be appreciated. What MA would you recommend me picking up? im know pretty much nothing about any other MA so thought id ask in here. Also, which art is a little more of a full-contact art?

Pick up Kempo. It will compliment your Karate and bring you to Jujutsu (the best martial art ever).

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by silencethehero
Pick up Kempo. It will compliment your Karate and bring you to Jujutsu (the best martial art ever).


"Best Martial Art ever"??? Really?

[Disco]

Since you have been in Karate for 9 years, and this is just a generalization, I assume that you would/should be proficient with the basic strikes, blocks and kicks. Any other style you choose to study should be nothing more than an adjunct to what you already know. Your basics have already been ingrained and you will undoubtedly respond to a situation with those movements. I will go out on a limb here and state that whatever style of MA that's out there, be it judo, jujitsu, hapkido, aikido etc, will all do the same thing when defending an attack. First either block or redirect the incoming attacking limb, inflict some type of offensive strike and then perform whatever specialized movement that the particular style dictates. With this stated, I would gravitate toward whatever MA style that personally interests you. It's a shame that your current style after 9 years does not fulfill your needs. Hope this was of some assistance to you:asian:

[A.R.K.]

I've been studying karate now for 9 years and am wondering whether or not to try another art.

I would be curious as to what type/style/system of karate you have been studying and what rank you have attained?

What skills do you feel your lacking. What area of interest would you like training in? Grappling, ground fighting, submission holds, joint locks etc?

This might help us narrow it down as to valid suggestions for you.

:asian:

[moromoro]

since you have been doing karate for a while your movements are probably quite rigid why not try something more fluid in movement, i.e chinese martial arts,
or try some indian martail arts of kelari payyatu this art has every thing...


thanks

terry

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
since you have been doing karate for a while your movements are probably quite rigid why not try something more fluid in movement, i.e chinese martial arts,
or try some indian martail arts of kelari payyatu this art has every thing...


thanks

terry


This is often a misconception of Karate that is said by people that are unfamiliar with the art……….i.e. that it is “rigid” or stiff.
However nothing could be further from the truth.

Yiliquan1 is a Chinese MA practioner and has trained with me………why not ask him if Karate is stiff or rigid.

Or you can have a look at some mpegs of people in our association.


Go to this link and to the section that says "GALERIA" then scroll down to the area that says "FILMIKI"

http://www.kempo.org.pl/ramka.html

[moromoro]

i dont think its a misconception just a comparison to other arts,

for example theres no way that a karateka is as fluid as a boxer or as fluid as a JKD practitioner
in comparison to these arts karate has the stiffest movements even the great bruce lee said that.

thanks

terry

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by vin2k0
I've been studying karate now for 9 years and am wondering whether or not to try another art. I'm curious how it would compare to what i already know. Jujitsu seems appealing to me but how would i be starting from scratch if i am used to being knowledgable? Any help would be appreciated. What MA would you recommend me picking up? im know pretty much nothing about any other MA so thought id ask in here. Also, which art is a little more of a full-contact art?
Try kyokushin karate, it's a little more "full-contact". Where you're from, I don't think there are a lot of full-contact schools anywhere in the world for that matter except for the very old areas. Full-contact schools are a dying breed due to difficulty, legal issues, financial reasons, etc. Not many people want to pay to get beat up. If they wanted that, they can pay that wacko on ebay to get an ass whopping. :rofl:

I have heard the muay thai schools were very good in the UK. You might also want to try out judo, it goes well with kyokushin I think.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
i dont think its a misconception just a comparison to other arts,

for example theres no way that a karateka is as fluid as a boxer or as fluid as a JKD practitioner in comparison to these arts karate has the stiffest movements even the great bruce lee said that.

thanks

terry

Not to be rude but you obviously haven’t been exposed to any good karate.

Look at the mpegs then comment.

[Bob Hubbard]

Nice clips. What was the second one? looked like variations of an armbar, to a throw?

:asian:

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Nice clips. What was the second one? looked like variations of an armbar, to a throw?

:asian:


I am not sure which one you are talking about......what was the mpeg size?

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by moromoro
i dont think its a misconception just a comparison to other arts,

for example theres no way that a karateka is as fluid as a boxer or as fluid as a JKD practitioner
in comparison to these arts karate has the stiffest movements even the great bruce lee said that.

thanks

terry
It's true that karate is a bit "harder" than the other arts, but hard doesn't mean not fluid. That's the biggest misconception. Hard doesn't mean rigid in fighting. Not necessarily the best analogy, but an example would be bamboo. Hard, yet flexibile.

And there are a lot of boxing styles out there. Sugar Ray Robinson was poetry in motion. Ali floated like a butterfly. But then you got Lewis who is a bit rigid compared to them and stiff, but has no trouble going from one technique to the next. Butterbean is all rigid, but that's just because he's fat, lazy, and a person who can only fight under his own rules.

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
I am not sure which one you are talking about......what was the mpeg size?

This one : http://www.kempo.org.pl/images/film/3.mpg 248kb

Thanks.

[moromoro]

your right about one thing, LEWIS beign rigid, man all the guy has is reach i dont think he has good technique and speed or power like tyson or rahman
as far as karate beign like bamboo i dont know about that bruce said it was more like a metal bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks

terry

[MartialArtist]

Another set of movies would be of Mas Oyama. He can be rigid, he can be graceful. A lot of his power movements are graceful in the near the beginning of execution then become rigid. When he fought certain people, it was a completely different person. And when he fought that bull, he was rigid and fluid...

But let's define rigid and fluid. You mention boxing as being fluid. Yeah, the footwork and bodymovement may be, and same with a lot of combos, but what about the certain blocks? Those aren't fluid and they take a lot of the impact. You cover your head, lean forward a bit, and try to defend yourself. By being rigid, you can defend against the all-out attacks instead of risking blocking it and getting it. Blocking outside may work for slower techniques but you can't expect to block all my punches if I went at it like that. You remain tense, but you still have to move. Then look at karate. There is more emphasis on parries than in boxing. Parries aren't rigid. So what's your point. Muay thai is more rigid than taiji, same with TKD.

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by moromoro
your right about one thing, LEWIS beign rigid, man all the guy has is reach i dont think he has good technique and speed or power like tyson or rahman
as far as karate beign like bamboo i dont know about that bruce said it was more like a metal bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks

terry
Lewis has reach, but that's not the reason he wins that many matches. One thing he specifically stated he did best was prepare for a bout. Preperation - his key to victory. Vitaly sp? I think it was (might be his brother) Klitchsko has a longer reach than Lewis, and I think he's the better boxer not due to reach, but because of his technical ability and greater speed than Lewis. But in terms of tactical ability - Lewis. Lewis spends a lot of his time reviewing his opponents. He knows your style, and he knows your strengths and weaknesses.

[moromoro]

sosai was a true master and as real as a fighter could be, i would have like to see him on his prime and if the ufc would have been on,


also how about ryu kyu kobudo theres something i want to learn
do you know the best site official in the net

thanks

terry

ps the rigidness iam implying is in the karateka's punch and blocking

thanks

terry

[don bohrer]

Vin2ko,

Visit the other schools in your area. After a few visit's you should have an idea. After watching a few classes I bet you'll find an interest.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro


ps the rigidness iam implying is in the karateka's punch and blocking

thanks

terry


Again you have come across or seen some inaccurate information/demonstration of karate

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
This one : http://www.kempo.org.pl/images/film/3.mpg 248kb

Thanks.

That was caught mid-technique.
The guy in black is demonstrating at “teaching speed” part of 1 technique.

Some of the mpegs on there are done at “teaching speed” (so you can learn how to do it) and others are done at “demo speed” (so you get an idea of what it is supposed to be like). I don’t think any are done at “actual speed” ……….I’ll have to check.

[moromoro]

rsk

what system of karate do you learn


thanks

terry

[RyuShiKan]

Kaith if you go to this one it is a slight variation on the one you were asking about.

Go to the mpeg that says 393kb

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
rsk

what system of karate do you learn


thanks

terry


Here is the URL to my website:

http://www.geocities.com/ryushikan/

[Yari]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Kaith if you go to this one it is a slight variation on the one you were asking about.

http://www.kempo.org.pl-images-film-wasfest005.mpv

I know the post wasn't for me, but I'm courious (sp?), so I tried and it didn't work for me. I also tried and exchange the dashes with slashes, and it told me the object doesn't exsist. If I tried: http://www.kempo.org.pl/images/film it said I had no access.

By the way I liked the vidclips. Reminds me alot of the jujitsu I've done.

/Yari

[moromoro]

thanks

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yari
I know the post wasn't for me, but I'm courious (sp?), so I tried and it didn't work for me. I also tried and exchange the dashes with slashes, and it told me the object doesn't exsist. If I tried: http://www.kempo.org.pl/images/film it said I had no access.
/Yari

Yari,

Sorry, Go to the mpeg that says 393kb.



Originally posted by Yari

By the way I liked the vidclips. Reminds me alot of the jujitsu I've done.

/Yari


Those are mostly some basic moves from Naihanchi

[moromoro]

nice site

[Bob Hubbard]

http://www.kempo.org.pl/images/film/wasfest005.mpv

Thats a bit different from the karate clips I've seen in the past. Most of those were very straight, explosive and 'hard'. This had circular movements.

I may be wrong, but it looked like he blocked the incoming punch while countering to the gut, then passed the attackers arm thru causing a throw?

[Yari]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Yari,

Go to the mpeg that says 393kb.



Nice technique. Looks very interessting!! So do the other vidclips.

Thanks for sharing!

/Yari

[vin2k0]

Originally posted by Disco
It's a shame that your current style after 9 years does not fulfill your needs. Hope this was of some assistance to you:asian:

No, it does fulfill my needs. i am just curious to what other MA's there are around that may be as good, or better, that i may be missing out on.

[vin2k0]

Originally posted by Mya Ryu Jitsu
I would be curious as to what type/style/system of karate you have been studying and what rank you have attained?

What skills do you feel your lacking. What area of interest would you like training in? Grappling, ground fighting, submission holds, joint locks etc?

This might help us narrow it down as to valid suggestions for you.

:asian:


I study shukokai karate

I have attained a 2nd dan

I do not feel i lack any skills, probably because i dont know which skills i could be lacking.

I would like to train in something more applicable to the street... a man attacking with a knife wouldnt usually lunge at you as if doing a leading-hand punch, however, this is the kind of attack we defend against.

We have to go very soft when sparring against a partner or in any partner work other than on the pads... so i feel you cannot properly master blocking techniques when you aren't being attacked with full force.

I feel that, because i have never been hit full force in the dojo, if it came to this outside i wouldnt have experienced it before and wouldnt react in the same way as if i knew what to expect? Maybe i am wrong, just a few of my concerns...

[vin2k0]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Not to be rude but you obviously haven’t been exposed to any good karate.

Look at the mpegs then comment.

i agree... karate is a very flowing MA, so i am unsure of which type of karate you may have studied/observed.

[vin2k0]

very interesting video clips. Thanks for sharing them! and thanks for all the comments on the thread... i may visit a few different schools around and see how they compare.

[Angus]

Originally posted by moromoro

as far as karate beign like bamboo i dont know about that bruce said it was more like a metal bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks

terry

Bruce wasn't a karateka ;)

[Tigertron]

Originally posted by vin2k0
No, it does fulfill my needs. i am just curious to what other MA's there are around that may be as good, or better, that i may be missing out on.

Take up MuayThai and/or Jeet Kune Do. It will be a refreshing experience to learn techniques that are counter-intuitive to what you are familiar with. ;) Kind of opening your eyes to a new dimension. You will learn that there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.

Many people tend to think that their particular art has the ultimate truth, or at least THE right answer to everything. It is beneficial to broaden your horizon to experience that there is a whole different world across the ocean, and that your particular art is nothing more than ONE of many ways.

[Michael Billings]

So far the Kenpo clips you have seen were the Kenpo/Kempo with a strong Jui-Jitsu flavor.

Here are a couple of others that are more of a striking art. ENJOY!!!

Austin Kenpo Karate Commercial (http://austinkenpokarate.com/video.html)

or

Paul Mills' AKKI (http://www.akki.com/_videos/index.htm)

or for the home of Ed Parker's American Kenpo, go to his association page for a video clip. If you go to the main page, they have a pretty cool flash intro.

Ed Parker's IKKA (http://www.ikka.us/Kenpo/video.htm)

Oss,
-Michael

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Again you have come across or seen some inaccurate information/demonstration of karate
Let me guess, there was a guy in a horse stance and doing a punch from the hip :rolleyes:

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Here is the URL to my website:

http://www.geocities.com/ryushikan/
Is that your website or your schools? Ever thought of getting a private host and a domain if it's your school? I can get you a pretty good deal.

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by moromoro
i dont think its a misconception just a comparison to other arts,

for example theres no way that a karateka is as fluid as a boxer or as fluid as a JKD practitioner
in comparison to these arts karate has the stiffest movements even the great bruce lee said that.

thanks

terry

I think I would, respectfully, say that your information is sorely lacking in regards to real, legitimate, living karate. Sure, the mini-mall brand of karate, the commercial, meal-ticket oriented method of instruction that keeps little kids occupied in between sports seasons and helps 50+ year olds get "back into shape" is certainly less than "fluid."

However.

The living karate that deals with realistic attacks (which, by the way, haven't changed in the past several hundred years, unless you are being attacked by a multi-limbed mutant or some space alien bent on world domination) at full speed is quite fluid and responsive. When I trained with RyuShiKan, never once did he assume a rigid, immobile stance and ask me to attack in a stiff, robotic fashion. We stood one arm length plus one fist away, and he just told me to come at him with whatever I had. When I got back up ( :D ), I realized just how responsive and fluid his reaction had been.

I think many JKD and arnis people are afflicted with the move-fast-pose-move-fast-pose disorder, where they move very fluidly and quickly during transition movements, but then stop for a split second while posing in a semblance of a strike position. I think that, for all their fluidity, they provide ample opportunity for an opponent to enter their openings with additional strikes... This is based on my limited experience, and is certainly not descriptive of all JKD and FMA people, but it is a more accurate portrayal of an observation than a broad sweeping generalization that all JKD and FMA people pose in between strikes...

You are correct in certain specifics, but your general statement is incorrect.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Let me guess, there was a guy in a horse stance and doing a punch from the hip :rolleyes:

I think you are confusing a training drill that develops leg strength and shoulder endurace (while also providing the mind something to distract itself from the pain in the thighs from holding a deep horse stance) with real fighting techniques.

Sure, some schools think that amounts to fighting. I doubt any real karateka would deny that that falls short of what karate really is. However, I also believe they would step up to point out the flaw of thinking that training exercise is anything more than just that.

It is similar to Taijquan players thinking push hands amounts to fighting skill, FMAists thinking that trapping amounts to fighting ability, wrestlers thinking their ability to bridge will win them every single match or a boxer thinking his ability to smack a speed bag quickly will win him a fight. There is much more that goes into fighting skills that simple, disassociated drills. It appears that your view of karate may be, in part, based on just such an assumption.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by vin2k0
II would like to train in something more applicable to the street... a man attacking with a knife wouldnt usually lunge at you as if doing a leading-hand punch, however, this is the kind of attack we defend against.

Real martial arts train in things that are no less applicable against attacks "in the street" now than they were 200 years ago. Folks don't attack with knives, clubs, hatchets, machetes, sticks, crowbars, etc., any differently today than they did back then. Lots of MMA and eclectic MAists seem to think so, but it is just so much hype...

It sounds, however, that at some point in your style's development, they took an attack used to train a beginner in a safe manner, and mistook it for a real attack. If you want your training to be more realistic, as a senior student (you said 2nd dan), suggest to your head instructor that the attacks be changed to reflect a more realist and less safety conscious attack. If he refuses, then get a buddy and do it on your own. Find a way to make the techniques you already know (strikes, kicks, joint locks, throws) work against such attacks.


We have to go very soft when sparring against a partner or in any partner work other than on the pads... so i feel you cannot properly master blocking techniques when you aren't being attacked with full force.[

Why do you go softly?

You are correct - blocking a determined aggressor who throws a full power technique is much different than playing handsies and footsies with a willing, compliant partner. And pads just plain suck... I have never used them in all the years I have been training, and I'm just fine. :D


I feel that, because i have never been hit full force in the dojo, if it came to this outside i wouldnt have experienced it before and wouldnt react in the same way as if i knew what to expect? Maybe i am wrong, just a few of my concerns...

Two things -

One: Why have you never been hit for real? You need to be, both to know what it feels like, and to get over the natural fear of being hit/thrown/kicked. Eventually, that fear goes away completely, and it is at that point that you start getting to be dangerous. A person that is unafraid of allowing you to hit them becomes rather suddenly a force to be reckoned with, especially if they have the body composition that allows them to "suck up" more than a few techniques...

Two: Why haven't you just gotten a similarly minded dojo mate and had him ***** slap you a time or three? Training happens whenever and wherever, and really doesn't (especially at your level) require the supervision of your instructor. Get a friend, give him/her a beer, and have them punch the hell out of you. It does wonderful things for your understanding of martial arts.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

[moromoro]

i respest and love traditional karate

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
i respest and love traditional karate


That may be, but after reading your comments abot it I am wondering what you consider "traditional karate".

[moromoro]

goju by saiko shihan yamaguchi, and a lot of styles headed by their grandmasters in japan,

instructors who begin teaching in the west after no real experience are the ones that give karate a bad name

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
goju by saiko shihan yamaguchi,

To put it bluntly Yamaguchi’s Goju was over rated…….I saw it.
He didn’t earn the respect of many Okinawan Goju stylist either.
He was also a noted liar……..claiming to kill a tiger in Siberia…:rolleyes: ….too bad or conveniently, depending on how you look at it, nobody can corroborate his story.



Originally posted by moromoro
and a lot of styles headed by their grandmasters in japan,

From my 15 years of rubbing elbows with all kinds of Karateka here in Japan I have yet to see “traditional Karate” in the Okinawan sense of the word. This includes working as a tournament official at JKF tournaments and being a Golden Member of the JKF for over 10 years.
I see a lot of “tippy tap tournament” type Karate and kata done for show not “GO”. Which is the main reason I resigned from the JKF.
What’s more I have yet to see a Japanese teacher of any rank that even knows of tuite like techniques, not to mention any sort of applicable knowledge of atemi or kyusho.
As a matter of fact I dropped a prominent karateka from a big organization here to his knees using a tuite technique from a kata because he claimed it was only an “Okinawan Bow”. Normally I wouldn't do such a thing but he was so high up on his horse when he was talking to us stupid “round eye” about Karate I thought he needed some sort of reality check.
Funny thing is the twit wouldn't make eye contact and avoided me and my students like the Bubonic Plague the rest of the time we were there.


Originally posted by moromoro
instructors who begin teaching in the west after no real experience are the ones that give karate a bad name

Anybody that teaches after no real experience gives karate a bad name……western or Japanese.

One problem that I and Pat McCarthy and others have noticed while teaching in Japan is the foreigners that through themselves at the feet of any Japanese instructor not matter how poorly they are trained and how low their skill level maybe.
They get this groveling simply because they are Asian and not because of their skill.
I call it “Yellow Fever”…….they want to play Qui Chang Caine (from the TV show Kung FU) or something.
This “Yellow Fever” hits them and they lose any sense of reality and common sense.

[moromoro]

what are you trying to say that the japanese cannot perform tradition karate and that okinawans are the only ones???

what do you think of the ashihara karate, kyokushin kai today under shokei matsu also shito ryu and the other karate stlyes based in japan or okinawa who would you rate as beign good and not so good


thanks

terry

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
what are you trying to say that the japanese cannot perform tradition karate and that okinawans are the only ones???


Japanese teach “Japanized Karate”….which for all intents and purposes is “Modernized Karate”. It lacks “gokui” or any sort of real “hidden” teachings. ( Japanese word pronounced heeden)


There are plenty of “good” karateka out there……..more than I could possibly mention.
Not all are from Okinawa either. So trying to “profile” me as thinking only Okinawans are deserving of respect won’t work.
I have met some Okinawans that were less than genuine.
Some of the best Karateka I know are from the west, many from the U.S..

Personally I think your interpretation as to what constitutes “traditional” might be different from mine.

[moromoro]

which organisations do you recommend

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
which organisations do you recommend


Why?
Are you planning on studying Karate?

[moromoro]

no just an interest on what people think to be the strongest organisations

i would however one day want to learn ryu kyu kobudo

thanks

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
no just an interest on what people think to be the strongest organisations

i would however one day want to learn ryu kyu kobudo

thanks

Look around I am sure you can find something.

[Bod]

A great way to learn how to defend against knife attacks is to get a friend to attack you in any way you or he can possibly think up, (including through the legs behind the back etc. absolutely anything) and concentrate on figuring out how to defend against the ones you are not comfortable with.

There are loads of Judo stories that go '...so I had to find a way of defeating this technique, and I spent months thinking about it until I came up with....'.

It's called research. It's tough, but it's real learning, and eventually you should be able to find a way to defeat anything given a reasonable amount of luck. I love this sort of practice, it just involves getting to class early and leaving late after spending time with like minded people.

[moromoro]

yes research is always an important part of MA training

RyuShiKan

which would you reccomend goju of higaonna sensei or goju kai of yamaguchi

not that i have an interest in practising karate but goju is very popular here in australia,

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
yes research is always an important part of MA training

RyuShiKan

which would you reccomend goju of higaonna sensei or goju kai of yamaguchi

not that i have an interest in practising karate but goju is very popular here in australia,

Higaonna Morio!
The man trains about 6 everyday from last I heard.
You might ask Mike Clarke, a member of this BBs, for the specifics since he trained with the man.

[moromoro]

yes he is the real deal,
is he okinawan???

[vin2k0]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1


Why do you go softly?

You are correct - blocking a determined aggressor who throws a full power technique is much different than playing handsies and footsies with a willing, compliant partner.

Yep, thought so. However, don't agree with your comments on pads being useless. You may be just fine without one, but i think they help improve power, and show you how effective a technique can be if the correct factors are included.


Originally posted by Yiliquan1

Two things -

One: Why have you never been hit for real? You need to be, both to know what it feels like, and to get over the natural fear of being hit/thrown/kicked.

I have never been hit, simply because whereever possible i avoid violence. And so far have been lucky enough to calm down any situation that has arisen.


Originally posted by Yiliquan1


Two: Why haven't you just gotten a similarly minded dojo mate and had him ***** slap you a time or three? Training happens whenever and wherever, and really doesn't (especially at your level) require the supervision of your instructor. Get a friend, give him/her a beer, and have them punch the hell out of you. It does wonderful things for your understanding of martial arts.


Hmmm... maybe so, but doesn't sound all that appealing to me. Dont think i would actually like to have a full scale fight with a mate. Although im sure the experience would do me good, i dont think anyone would honestly want to take me up on an offer of a fight...

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by vin2k0
Yep, thought so. However, don't agree with your comments on pads being useless. You may be just fine without one, but i think they help improve power, and show you how effective a technique can be if the correct factors are included.

Pads provide a target surface. Pads absorb force, and thereby present no real first hand feedback on whether the strike would have really penetrated in terms of the power transfer into the opponent's body. You can kick a guy holding a shield, and move him quite far, but that kick may still lack penetration and result in more of a pushing action against an unpadded partner.

I don't like them. Unrealistic in terms of timing and distance in developing your own techniques. But who am I to dictate to you what you prefer to use?


I have never been hit, simply because whereever possible i avoid violence. And so far have been lucky enough to calm down any situation that has arisen.

I meant why hadn't you been hit for real during training? Everyone should get tagged once in a while with a real shot, or a slightly watered down but still powerful strike, just to keep them honest about what they are doing. Without the danger of being hit and having it cause pain or damage, there is little in the way of real motivation to get out of the way. Likewise, blocks and defenses against low power attacks simply will not work against a real attack. The strength to reinforce such movements will be absent, and the distance and timing necessary to deal with such a situation will never have been addressed.

Sure, you've been lucky in real life. We should all be so lucky. But training is the environment within which we prepare for the worst. Kick it up a notch and get slugged in the dojo with a good, hard shot. See what happens when you have to defend against an attack that is going to go through you rather than stop at your chest... It's fun! :D


Hmmm... maybe so, but doesn't sound all that appealing to me. Dont think i would actually like to have a full scale fight with a mate. Although im sure the experience would do me good, i dont think anyone would honestly want to take me up on an offer of a fight...

Again, I was talking within the context of training. I wasn't suggesting that you go out, get a mate hammered, then tell him to attack you... Bad for you and your mate!

Next time you are in the training hall, in between classes or whatever, have a friend come up and blast you. See what you are capable of dealing with. Otherwise, when it happens that you are unlucky, you may be up against something that absolutely none of your MA training prepared you for...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[moromoro]

good points Yiliquan1

[J-kid]

Join some mixed martial arts.

[moromoro]

MMA is great for sparring and testing your ability but it is not complete by any means of the word.

[vin2k0]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
You can kick a guy holding a shield, and move him quite far, but that kick may still lack penetration and result in more of a pushing action against an unpadded partner.

This is correct but you can tell when the pad is being pushed or penetrated. Anyway, as you say, different people prefer to use different methods.


Originally posted by Yiliquan1
I meant why hadn't you been hit for real during training? Everyone should get tagged once in a while with a real shot, or a slightly watered down but still powerful strike, just to keep them honest about what they are doing... Kick it up a notch and get slugged in the dojo with a good, hard shot.

Ok, i will take your advice and 'kick it up a notch' in training tonight. I actually did last time i trained also and found myself to be a much better fighter. At the end of the lesson several people approached me saying how good i had been sparring.

Thanks for your comments Yiliquan1, i have found them informative and interesting. :asian:

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
I think you are confusing a training drill that develops leg strength and shoulder endurace (while also providing the mind something to distract itself from the pain in the thighs from holding a deep horse stance) with real fighting techniques.

Sure, some schools think that amounts to fighting. I doubt any real karateka would deny that that falls short of what karate really is. However, I also believe they would step up to point out the flaw of thinking that training exercise is anything more than just that.

It is similar to Taijquan players thinking push hands amounts to fighting skill, FMAists thinking that trapping amounts to fighting ability, wrestlers thinking their ability to bridge will win them every single match or a boxer thinking his ability to smack a speed bag quickly will win him a fight. There is much more that goes into fighting skills that simple, disassociated drills. It appears that your view of karate may be, in part, based on just such an assumption.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:
You misunderstood the statement.

I was talking to the guy who thought karate was not fluid, and was elaborating on the stereotype - hence the rolleyes emoticon

[moromoro]

FMAists thinking that trapping amounts to fighting ability,

FMArtist dont do trapping your mistaking us for JKD practitioners...............


GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH........

[J-kid]

Try these i think you might find to be fun and helpful martial arts.
Judo
Brazilin Jujutsu aka BJJ
Freestyle wrestling/Any style of wrestling
Mauy Thai kickboxing
American Kickboxing
Western Boxing
Submission Wrestling
Olympic Pankration
Vale Tudo
Shooto
Sambo
Escrima
Krav Maga
Burmese Boxing
kyuikashinko karate
Wing Tsun
Combative TKD, God but that is impossible to find.
Hnmm hapkido(another last resort)
Maybe Jeet Kune Do(shrug)
Kendo
Fencing (it would be a good skill to have I guess)

I would look at yellowpages.com use distance search look for somthing i listed above then talk to the instructer.

See if he seems quilified then watch his class
ask questions like
are there any contracts (if so leave)
What kind of prices and what are the hours ( anything over a 100 a month is to much)
Also see if they do sparring, ask what they think about cross training.
make sure you get along with the instructer i cant say its that importen but its nice.

Just make sure it is a good school that teachs you useful skills.

Best of luck to you.

[moromoro]

Just make sure it is a good school that teachs you useful skills.

very very important

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by moromoro
FMArtist dont do trapping your mistaking us for JKD practitioners...............


GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH........

So all that time I spent working on trapping drills while studying Modern Arnis, I was actually learning JKD? :rolleyes:

I was under the impression that JKD got trapping from FMA... :shrug:

And next time you feel a need to reply to me, opt not to "raise your voice" by typing in all caps... Sometimes it is you that needs to get your facts straight (like checking to see if the person has any experience in the subject - like my having done Arnis and Pekiti-Tirsia before...).

Enjoy.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[KennethKu]

JKD trapping is from WingChun, Bruce Lee's original MA training.

[moromoro]

And next time you feel a need to reply to me, opt not to "raise your voice" by typing in all caps... Sometimes it is you that needs to get your facts straight (like checking to see if the person has any experience in the subject - like my having done Arnis and Pekiti-Tirsia before...).

AND WHAT LEVEL DID YOU ACHIEVE IN THOSE ARTS??????????


in traditional eskrima there is no such thing as trapping........................

go to any club in the Philippines and ask to be taught TRAPPING they will have no idea of what you are talking about......

GET YOUR FACTS STRIAIGHT BEFORE REPYING AND IF YOU KNOW NOTTHING SAY NOTTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matt Stone]

Moromoro -

What level did I reach in those arts" In PT, none at all. In Modern Arnis, none at all, because I wasn't interested in testing. However, my instructor wanted to promote me to 3rd brown. He is 2nd black in Modern Arnis and was granted instructorship by GM Presas himself. Most of what we worked on was trapping and stick drills. So I suppose you are saying, then, that GM Presas wasn't really doing FMA at all...? Please clarify what you meant to say.

As for your demonstrated maturity level by consistently typing in all caps just to make a vain attempt to "flex," well, I'm through with you. I can see attempting to discuss this is a waste of time. So I guess you can go ahead and ignore my request above for further clarification of your argument.

Go type strongly at someone else if you are intellectually incapable of presenting your argument in a more effective manner. :shrug:

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[pesilat]

Originally posted by moromoro
AND WHAT LEVEL DID YOU ACHIEVE IN THOSE ARTS??????????


in traditional eskrima there is no such thing as trapping........................

go to any club in the Philippines and ask to be taught TRAPPING they will have no idea of what you are talking about......

GET YOUR FACTS STRIAIGHT BEFORE REPYING AND IF YOU KNOW NOTTHING SAY NOTTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They may not call it "trapping" ... but that doesn't mean they don't do it. Every FMA system I've been exposed to makes pretty heavy use of trapping. They may call it "checking" or "lifting and clearing" or any number of other terms. But it's still the same concept as trapping.

Mike