How many of you have a spiritual connection to your MA

[suicide]

:angel:

[Marginal]

I wouldn't train in a MA that had 'em.

[Big Don]

While I won't say something openly bigoted, that isn't what I am in MA for.

[chinto]

I do not see a spiritual connection between Martial arts and any religion or connection really at all. Martial arts is about combat, and some ethics, but they are more in the nature of survival by acting properly.. not spirituality.

[Bruno@MT]

Many traditional Japanese MA have a link with shintoism. And even today there are some rituals in the JMA that could be considered spiritual. For example, the bowing ritual at the start / end of a Genbukan ninpo class.

For me, it doesn't matter. I am not a shintoist. To me, it is a ritual that simply marks the beginning and the end of a class. And in my case, I look at it as a mental transition, kinda like changing clothes. It's a way of saying to myself 'now I will focus on MA and I will think of nothing else'.

I've known people who would not practise a MA because they felt that the shinto roots went against their religion (he was catholic). I didn't follow his argument. I asked him: 'If I start a religion where one of the holy rituals was the shaking of hands, would you stop shaking hands'
He answered no, and imo, if you don't care for shintoism as a religion, then you should simply look at it as you would look at any other social ritual.

[Blindside]

Martial arts are about developing fighting skills, I don't get involved with much of the "spiritual" in any other aspect of my life, can't say I would want it in a martial art I studied.

[Himura Kenshin]

I practice some meditation exercises in our art, they are good for foucs and learning how to connect with your attacker to be able to become more aware of things. Is this what you were refering to?

[rocksham]

Many traditional Japanese MA have a link with shintoism. And even today there are some rituals in the JMA that could be considered spiritual. For example, the bowing ritual at the start / end of a Genbukan ninpo class.

For me, it doesn't matter. I am not a shintoist. To me, it is a ritual that simply marks the beginning and the end of a class. And in my case, I look at it as a mental transition, kinda like changing clothes. It's a way of saying to myself 'now I will focus on MA and I will think of nothing else'.

I've known people who would not practise a MA because they felt that the shinto roots went against their religion (he was catholic). I didn't follow his argument. I asked him: 'If I start a religion where one of the holy rituals was the shaking of hands, would you stop shaking hands'
He answered no, and imo, if you don't care for shintoism as a religion, then you should simply look at it as you would look at any other social ritual.


wasnt there a post not long ago about the Bujinkan becoming formally linked to a Temple, though I forget if it were Buddhist or Shinto, I would think the former though.

[Jenna]

I think I would need a clearer definition of 'spiritual'. I think if the term 'spiritual' is being equated to religion then I would be uncomfortable with an enforced overlap between it and my martial art. Likewise the term 'spiritual' seems to have been commandeered by the contemplators and the meditators. While these are no doubt 'spiritual' activities, I think the term 'spiritual' can also be used synonymously with a kind of physical and mental enlightenment if you will. And so yes, I think there is a place for the advancement of the self in all arts. Used *in that sense* I think the term 'spiritual' works ok for me.

By making ourselves aware of what we can achieve, I think that makes good *personal* spiritual sense to me and but then I am using my own definition of the term.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

[Bruno@MT]

wasnt there a post not long ago about the Bujinkan becoming formally linked to a Temple, though I forget if it were Buddhist or Shinto, I would think the former though.

I am in Genbukan, not Bujinkan, so I should point out that I am not the most qualified person to answer.

But the issue you mention is more complex than that.
From what I understood, the issue is that Hatsumi owns a lot of artefacts associated with the art that were passed down to him. If he has to pass these on, one scenario was that they'd be subject to inheritance tax. The registration would prevent that.

Another scenario I read about was that there are development plans that would mean the demolition of the Bujinkan honbu dojo (or road or something such). Registration of the dojo as a shinto temple would halt this temporarily, and give Hatsumi sensei enough time to commence construction of a new honbu dojo.

Again, I am not the best qualified person to answer this question, but there were several down to earth reasons postulated for registering as a religion or religious shrine.

[Bill Mattocks]

I think I would need a clearer definition of 'spiritual'. I think if the term 'spiritual' is being equated to religion then I would be uncomfortable with an enforced overlap between it and my martial art. Likewise the term 'spiritual' seems to have been commandeered by the contemplators and the meditators. While these are no doubt 'spiritual' activities, I think the term 'spiritual' can also be used synonymously with a kind of physical and mental enlightenment if you will. And so yes, I think there is a place for the advancement of the self in all arts. Used *in that sense* I think the term 'spiritual' works ok for me.

By making ourselves aware of what we can achieve, I think that makes good *personal* spiritual sense to me and but then I am using my own definition of the term.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Jenna,

I agree with you. My dojo offers no religious training, no 'spiritual connection' in that sense that I'm aware of. My sensei is a professing Christian, I know that much, but I don't even know what particular church he attends - nor do I especially want to.

However, I feel a connection to my own spirit and my own spiritual energy, if you will, when I am in the dojo. I am working to learn more than just a way to kick or a manner of punching, I am working on things I cannot manifest physically, such as the mental state necessary to learn, and the mindset necessary to engage an assailant, should it ever become necessary.

I do consider the mind+body combination to be 'spiritual' in the sense that it embues me with qualities that I otherwise would not possess. In a synergistic way, the ability to throw a correct punch, combined with the mental state to understand when, where, and why the punch is being thrown, equals a spiritual state not unlike what has been called the 'warrior spirit' or simply budo spirit.

To me, the spiritualistic aspects of my MA training are not only welcome, but mandatory for me to truly appreciate what I learn. They do not symbolize religion or religious worship of any kind. It is all within me, my personal spiritual essence.

Many people recognize that chess has an 'inner game' as well as the outward manifestations of the moving of the chess pieces. This can involve not just knowing the appropriate rules and strategies, but when and why to use them, an understanding of the opponent through observation and insight, even consideration of such things as the weather.

I would therefore liken the spiritual aspect of my martial arts training to the inner game of chess. To know a block is one thing. To throw it correctly, another. To know the moment - the inner game, the spiritual side, the budo spirit of martial arts.

[blindsage]

Taoism is very tied into Baguazhang but I am not a Taoist, and I don't feel I need to be to study, learn or benefit from the system. I do feel that studying any MA is of benefit to me spiritually in that it furthers me in my development as a person, helps me refine myself and have a better awareness of myself. From my perspective all of these things are spiritual and apply even with my focus on fighting and applications.

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Spirituality and martial arts do have realtions how far you use martial arts as a vessel for your spirituality is up to you.

The arts I practice do have a strong theme of Taoist thought but it can be taken as deep and meaningul as you want it.

IMO I think man is a spiritual animal and without spirituality in the martial arts the arts becomes a shallow superficial stream rather then a deep ocean. IMO techniques are methods of culitvation and understanding of ourselves,others and the world to bring a better place.

[terryl965]

There will always be a spiritual elements to one training, but it may or may not be religous base. See to me spiritual could mean be in turn with your surrounding, being able to sense before it happens and to me that is spiritual but not religous as some of you seem to think. I eman if you are in turn with your surrounding then you have found a spiritual connection to the surrounding you are in.

[Jenna]

To me, the spiritualistic aspects of my MA training are not only welcome, but mandatory for me to truly appreciate what I learn. They do not symbolize religion or religious worship of any kind. It is all within me, my personal spiritual essence.

Hello Bill :) I think that is a lovely incisive summary right there. Your reply has the insight of experience I think. I also love the chess analogy. And I think many of us are apt to either overlook that inner game we all play in our art, or disregard it as having no 'spiritual' significance. And I think those multiple meanings and myriad connotations of the term comprise the central issue with 'spiritual' discussions that I imagine deters folk.

Spiritual need not imply religion if it is not wished for. And but likewise, it need not be esoteric, or worse, deploy magickal concepts all around our arts. But similarly, because our arts are grounded in the real world, that does not preclude that art from taking us beyond the mundane. And no, not in a patent-clad-running-around-the-walls way either ;) I just mean that all our learning and adeptness and all our aptitudes and skills when used proficiently can elevate our spirits; can make us feel better about ourselves; can make us feel worthwhile. *That* is spiritual for me.

Spirit in martial art is not esoteric or artsy-fartsy. It is, I believe, a simple elevation of the spirit through martial arts discipline, skill, practice, mutual respect and camaraderie etc. And while I accept that plenty of people practice for purely mundane reasons, at the same time, they are NOT omitting the spiritual side of their art - because it is present I believe in ALL arts. Just because some folk do not focus, recognise or accept the spiritual aspect of their art, the fact is, if their spirit is elevated through their art, then it does not matter whether or not they perceive it as spiritual as long as it is happening. And as long as that elevation is happening, the benefits will be felt :)

Just my opinion. Hope that does not sound like a major ranting session, I do not mean it to :)

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

[Himura Kenshin]

Spiritual need not imply religion if it is not wished for. And but likewise, it need not be esoteric, or worse, deploy magickal concepts all around our arts. But similarly, because our arts are grounded in the real world, that does not preclude that art from taking us beyond the mundane. And no, not in a patent-clad-running-around-the-walls way either ;) I just mean that all our learning and adeptness and all our aptitudes and skills when used proficiently can elevate our spirits; can make us feel better about ourselves; can make us feel worthwhile. *That* is spiritual for me.

Spirit in martial art is not esoteric or artsy-fartsy. It is, I believe, a simple elevation of the spirit through martial arts discipline, skill, practice, mutual respect and camaraderie etc. And while I accept that plenty of people practice for purely mundane reasons, at the same time, they are NOT omitting the spiritual side of their art - because it is present I believe in ALL arts. Just because some folk do not focus, recognise or accept the spiritual aspect of their art, the fact is, if their spirit is elevated through their art, then it does not matter whether or not they perceive it as spiritual as long as it is happening. And as long as that elevation is happening, the benefits will be felt :)

Just my opinion. Hope that does not sound like a major ranting session, I do not mean it to :)

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

This very much sums up how I feel about the topic, and I honestly couldn't have worded it better if I had a hundred years to try.

[Guardian]

Not Personally, I keep my Spiritual Side (Not Religion) Spiritual Side seperate from my MA, in fact seperate from everything else.

I get a warm fuzzy good feeling from doing my training.

[kaizasosei]

*sob-sniffle* Guilty.


j

[IcemanSK]

I watched the Special Features of the Karate Kid last night. Pat Johnson, the stunt coordinator, talked about the fact that the Karate Kid "was the the first karate film that talked about the spiritual side of the martial arts." (While I'm not going to debate whether or not it was the first, I liked what he said about it).

Johnson said that while the Cobra Kais were only taught about the sport & about winning being everything, Daniel was taught something deeper.

If by a spiritual connection the OP means " are you taught that the hard physical training of your Art means more than thing in itself?" Yes, I have. As my signature says, "being a good fighter is one thing. Being a good person is everything." I hope that we all (& I'm sure most of us do) take with us the respect for others & self-control that we learn in the dojo out into the rest of the world & to other aspects of our lives. And that gaining belts, trophies or accolades for our MA prowess (or other strengths) isn't all we strive for or are taught. I hope we are learning (or at least having it reinforced in the dojo) that we are to look out for others who are weaker than are. If we're not, then we're missing something, IMO.

[suicide]

many people took it like i meant do they intertwind catholic islamic christian views with there ma , no ! i meant more like more like ma is your soul mate in life and theres something you can explain that drives the 2 of you together :angel:

[kempocat]

because of martial arts I have experienced what I define as a GOD given experience that not many are willing to talk about and few have felt does it make a spiritual connection I say yes it has held my interest for several years
.
PLEASE
the below note is just my experience it is NOT an attempt to convince anyone of anything or to start a debate

hello I hope you are doing well
my name is Keith and several years ago I read a book called empty force claiming it is possible to push a person with no phyical contact I laughed it off then I noticed that the masters sr. student was living on the west coast of florida at the time so I arranged to meet with him and asked for a demo here are the results he did not push me over but I did feel the pressure of a push he also demonstrated a non contact pushing pressure on my palms it was all very slight however I was impressed that a person could project anything another person could feel without touch before I left him he showed me some standing meditation I could practice to develop my own abilitys here is the results of my own investigation
.
after 6 months of meditation practice I felt a magnetic repelling warm force between my palms I tryed to explain it away as stiff joints or my amagination but after experimenting with my own abilitys for several years here is the conclusions I have come to 1. yes the pushing force is real but I have not been able to effect any non living object with this force 2. in my case I have been able to have others feel this slight push but it could NEVER be strong enough to be used in a fight and I have not proved that it has any healing benifits however this force seems to be at its strongest when I am calm and feeling well 3. I believe it is just how our bodys work for lack of a better term it is a bio electrical field or chi / mana / prana or all the other words that are tossed around in a mystical way we have it when we live and it is gone when we die the stronger it is the better we feel
.
summery: I always investigate before dismising the fantastic in this case I find that their is some truth to this books claims but my personal experiences have not proven to be as powerful as his claims and his demo on me only proved to me that a non contact force could be felt from one person to another
.
I thought you might find it interesting that I took the time to investigate this subject over a very long period of years
your results may vari

[Omar B]

There's no spiritual connection in my MA. But then I am of a mind that it's about the fighting, self defense and such.

[Ronin74]

many people took it like i meant do they intertwind catholic islamic christian views with there ma , no ! i meant more like more like ma is your soul mate in life and theres something you can explain that drives the 2 of you together :angel:
I CAN'T explain it. It just feels right.

For me, it's not about the training, the workout, the mindset, the combat. That's part of it, but only a very small part. I will say that I've never been happier than when I was training.

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think I would need a clearer definition of 'spiritual'. I think if the term 'spiritual' is being equated to religion then I would be uncomfortable with an enforced overlap between it and my martial art. Likewise the term 'spiritual' seems to have been commandeered by the contemplators and the meditators. While these are no doubt 'spiritual' activities, I think the term 'spiritual' can also be used synonymously with a kind of physical and mental enlightenment if you will. And so yes, I think there is a place for the advancement of the self in all arts. Used *in that sense* I think the term 'spiritual' works ok for me.

By making ourselves aware of what we can achieve, I think that makes good *personal* spiritual sense to me and but then I am using my own definition of the term.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
What she said!

Anything that you do can be as spiritual as you want to make it. One can go to worship in whatever setting their religion has and if they go and daydream the whole time, then was it really spiritual?

Honestly, I think that people overcomplicate this.

If I go to learn a martial art that has roots in Shinto philosophy, I am not worried that I might be somehow spiritually altered by my contact with this religion that differs from my own.

By the same token, I do not worry that if I go to practice kendo that unless there is some overt spiritual element that I am somehow not getting all that I can get from the art.

If one feels a lack of spiritual connection, they should look at themselves, not their martial art.

Daniel