Mick Coup

[chav buster]

this guy is brilliant imo!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkRVguhf8AY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEB6YlXKARQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lHdSlcahcg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rEd638Nn_A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zikp3ZTIfTQ

thisis his forum
http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/q-a-with-mick-coup-f5/

[blindsage]

Do basics, great. Is there a bigger point?

[clfsean]

Do basics, great. Is there a bigger point?

Basics rule... period.

[blindsage]

Basics rule... period.

Until you fight someone else with good basics too, or a different notion of what 'basics' are.

[Guardian]

He sure does talk allot doesn't he. Basics is right, but then again, everyone has to start somewhere.

[chav buster]

his aproach is very basic, where as most people try and find a tool to fit the situation mick trys to fit the situation to the tool.

http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/q-a-with-mick-coup-f5/article-the-list-t5745.htm this may explain a little better

[clfsean]

Until you fight someone else with good basics too, or a different notion of what 'basics' are.

Then you've gotta make your basics better :D ... no secrets or super techniques, just basics performed properly each & everytime IMHO...

[chav buster]

Then you've gotta make your basics better :D ... no secrets or super techniques, just basics performed properly each & everytime IMHO...
i have been training in his system for a while and all we have been doing is practising the highline strike, the offline strike and the low line strike over and over again everything else is considered secondry. it took 1 class to learn those 3 strikes to a compitant level and you spend hundreds of hours practising them until you have mastered them. mick coups system will blow your mind if you have done martial arts as your conditioned to believe that the more you know the better you are prepared but the truth is that the fewer techniques you know but master the better.

[blindsage]

Then you've gotta make your basics better :D ... no secrets or super techniques, just basics performed properly each & everytime IMHO...

Nobody's talking about secret or super techniques, but there is such a thing as refinement of technique, and if you don't think there is such a thing as more difficult technique that can be learned and mastered and used after the basics then you haven't had enough exposure.

[blindsage]

i have been training in his system for a while and all we have been doing is practising the highline strike, the offline strike and the low line strike over and over again everything else is considered secondry. it took 1 class to learn those 3 strikes to a compitant level and you spend hundreds of hours practising them until you have mastered them. mick coups system will blow your mind if you have done martial arts as your conditioned to believe that the more you know the better you are prepared but the truth is that the fewer techniques you know but master the better.

If you believe that the vast majority of MAs are about collecting as many technique as you can you've either had really bad instruction or really misunderstood it. It's stunning that anyone needs a new revolutionary idea to understand that repetition of the basics is the foundation of anything else, have you ever been in an MA class?

So, now what do you do when you've mastered each of those basic techniques? Are you done? Are you a master of street fighting that no other martial artist can beat now? What about movement skills? What about angles? What about grappling?

There's a lot more to think about in fighting than just mastering the basic techniques, and the notion of repeating the basics until 'mastery' is hundreds of years past being new or original.

[seasoned]

If you believe that the vast majority of MAs are about collecting as many technique as you can you've either had really bad instruction or really misunderstood it. It's stunning that anyone needs a new revolutionary idea to understand that repetition of the basics is the foundation of anything else, have you ever been in an MA class?

So, now what do you do when you've mastered each of those basic techniques? Are you done? Are you a master of street fighting that no other martial artist can beat now? What about movement skills? What about angles? What about grappling?

There's a lot more to think about in fighting than just mastering the basic techniques, and the notion of repeating the basics until 'mastery' is hundreds of years past being new or original.
I feel the big picture here is someone sharing something, and getting hammered for it. We are all here to share, learn, and connect with people of like mindedness. If you have learned nothing from this thread, just click out and go to the next one, and practice those good manners that all martial artist acquire.

[thardey]

I feel the big picture here is someone sharing something, and getting hammered for it. We are all here to share, learn, and connect with people of like mindedness. If you have learned nothing from this thread, just click out and go to the next one, and practice those good manners that all martial artist acquire.

I thought the big picture was to put our thoughts and beliefs out in the open to be respectfully challenged -- then we can check our beliefs and training habits from other perspectives.

[Guardian]

I feel the big picture here is someone sharing something, and getting hammered for it. We are all here to share, learn, and connect with people of like mindedness. If you have learned nothing from this thread, just click out and go to the next one, and practice those good manners that all martial artist acquire.

A good point and sometimes I tend to get carried away myself, I intended no harm, but I also feel that I am here to share and point out to the younger folks that what I know and the knowledge and mistakes I have made and if sometimes that includes saying something is not right (not saying this guy is not right), it's all in the name of experience and hopefully someone will learn from it.

[seasoned]

You are correct.

[chav buster]

If you believe that the vast majority of MAs are about collecting as many technique as you can you've either had really bad instruction or really misunderstood it. It's stunning that anyone needs a new revolutionary idea to understand that repetition of the basics is the foundation of anything else, have you ever been in an MA class?

So, now what do you do when you've mastered each of those basic techniques? Are you done? Are you a master of street fighting that no other martial artist can beat now? What about movement skills? What about angles? What about grappling?

There's a lot more to think about in fighting than just mastering the basic techniques, and the notion of repeating the basics until 'mastery' is hundreds of years past being new or original.
theres grappling and other stuff in there aswell theres no footwork so to speak as you cant for instance use boxing foot work unstairs, but those basic techniques can be made to work in most situations. you will forget most of what you know in a real attack when the andrenaline kicks in so thats why micks focus is on a small list of basic techniques that you drill over and over again until there instinctive, you dont have to think where or what to strike with. you have a plan A and everything else falls into plan be.

[clfsean]

Nobody's talking about secret or super techniques, but there is such a thing as refinement of technique,

Yes... refinement of technique is proper execution each & every time. I think I said that... what'd you miss?



and if you don't think there is such a thing as more difficult technique that can be learned and mastered and used after the basics then you haven't had enough exposure.

In 28 years... I think I've been exposed to a variety of different arts, been down the path of several & still maintain that path. Maybe instead trying to allude to what I have & have not been exposed to, you should ask where I draw my conclusions & how they were drawn.

[dnovice]

theres grappling and other stuff in there aswell theres no footwork so to speak as you cant for instance use boxing foot work unstairs, but those basic techniques can be made to work in most situations. you will forget most of what you know in a real attack when the andrenaline kicks in so thats why micks focus is on a small list of basic techniques that you drill over and over again until there instinctive, you dont have to think where or what to strike with. you have a plan A and everything else falls into plan be.

which is why you train with the right mindset. advanced techs take serious focus to pull of at least in the beginning. this is why i think every ma is difficult to learn, ma's including wc. on the surface they look easy to learn . they r not.

there is knowing and truly knowing, which in our case muscle memory. for example using test taking as an analogy, we have all taken an exam where we promptly forget most of what we learned. this doesnt make the info less important for scoring high... its just more difficult to truelly learn things above basics.

[blindsage]

In 28 years... I think I've been exposed to a variety of different arts, been down the path of several & still maintain that path. Maybe instead trying to allude to what I have & have not been exposed to, you should ask where I draw my conclusions & how they were drawn.

I said IF you think......., not that you do. I may have been a little overzealous in my response as I was thinking of your comment and chav's comment at the same time. I did not assume a lack of experience.

[blindsage]

theres grappling and other stuff in there aswell theres no footwork so to speak as you cant for instance use boxing foot work unstairs, but those basic techniques can be made to work in most situations.
So no reason to learn it ever?


you will forget most of what you know in a real attack when the andrenaline kicks in so thats why micks focus is on a small list of basic techniques that you drill over and over again until there instinctive, you dont have to think where or what to strike with. you have a plan A and everything else falls into plan be.
Is this your experience from a load of fights, that you forget everything you've been taught? Or do you have statistics with polls from people immediately after fights asking 'did you remember your techniques'? And all those fighters, in the multitude of fighting styles around the world, who used their styles and techniques over and over again in fights and self-defense situations, or on the battle field are just wrong about what they teach and say about fighting?

Mick looks like he knows what he's doing, good technique, good methods, good teaching, but I question anyone (because he's not the only one doing it) that claims that just these (5, 10, 12) basics are all you need and all that matter. Those methods are great for simple self-defense, no question, but it far and away is not all there is to being a good fighter, yes even on the street. And I feel that anyone who says that's all that matters is selling as big a bill of goods as the Korean super-martial arts systems that are everywhere (well aside from the fact that it looks like Mick is actually teaching his students something useful).

[Mick Coup]

If I may...

There's a little misunderstanding about the material I teach it seems, and I hope to be able to correct some assumptions.

It's been said that I teach a 'stripped down system' and I do - and don't! It's also been said that I only teach a handful of techniques - and to a point this is also true.

What my approach focuses on is not simply having only a few techniques or tools, but of having only a few identified core skills - because when you take the myriad of techniques back to the base from which they develop, there are only a few 'main headings' in actual fact, despite the endless 'sub headings' that are collected and obsessed about.

These core skills are the foundation, the basics, and no-one progresses without this foundation being firmly in place. Possibly this is why people sometimes think that I only teach a small selection of skills - when actually it's because I've only taught them a small selection, which they don't get to move beyond until they can execute properly, rather than the often seen ever-expanding collection of 'new' material.

I don't want to teach people a selection of punches for instance, instead I want to teach 'how to punch' and the variations are all covered. Hitting someone with a palm heel, fist, elbow, rock, pistol etc, in a forward linear fashion is all the same in terms of body mechanics and impact dynamics - so why seperate these slight variations of 'weapon' into various distinct techniques?

Using such tools effectively in combat is down to 'interface' and this is what I actually seek to simplify - to be honest the methods of applying such a tool are probably more complex in the format I eventually teach more advanced students, due to the application of optimum delivery mechanics I insist upon!

Footwork is certainly in there, in a high-percentage format that is generic and concept driven, rather than a series of specific and formatted methods - after all, footwork is a supporting act, not the star of the show, and everyone has an unconscious ability where footwork is concerned - until you make it complicated - so I enhance what is already working.

Grappling is covered - but in context like everything else. Initially it forms no part of the foundation material, as this is purely designed for worst case 'combat management' and grappling has no part in such situations. Grappling is covered for those that really need it, those that have to restrain individuals as part of a 'subject management' role requirement, and I make no apologies for concentrating on teaching what someone needs, rather than what they simply want instead.

In short what I present is purely operational, and this obviously does not fit with some people's expectations and I'll freely admit that these individuals are better served by learning a martial art. However I do not offer the usual collection of 'favourite techniques' and circus tricks that many choose to pass off as a combative system - it's all there, all integrated and cohesive - I just use fewer headings than most...

Mick

[Tez3]

I'm guessing Mick can always put what he knows into practice in Cardiff lol! We put a fight night on there a couple of years ago, our first big one actually, and we saw more fights in the streets than we had on the card!
I don't suppose you've come across Paul 'Hands of Stone' Jenkins have you Mick?

[morph4me]

If I may...

There's a little misunderstanding about the material I teach it seems, and I hope to be able to correct some assumptions.

It's been said that I teach a 'stripped down system' and I do - and don't! It's also been said that I only teach a handful of techniques - and to a point this is also true.

What my approach focuses on is not simply having only a few techniques or tools, but of having only a few identified core skills - because when you take the myriad of techniques back to the base from which they develop, there are only a few 'main headings' in actual fact, despite the endless 'sub headings' that are collected and obsessed about.

These core skills are the foundation, the basics, and no-one progresses without this foundation being firmly in place. Possibly this is why people sometimes think that I only teach a small selection of skills - when actually it's because I've only taught them a small selection, which they don't get to move beyond until they can execute properly, rather than the often seen ever-expanding collection of 'new' material.

I don't want to teach people a selection of punches for instance, instead I want to teach 'how to punch' and the variations are all covered. Hitting someone with a palm heel, fist, elbow, rock, pistol etc, in a forward linear fashion is all the same in terms of body mechanics and impact dynamics - so why seperate these slight variations of 'weapon' into various distinct techniques?

Using such tools effectively in combat is down to 'interface' and this is what I actually seek to simplify - to be honest the methods of applying such a tool are probably more complex in the format I eventually teach more advanced students, due to the application of optimum delivery mechanics I insist upon!

Footwork is certainly in there, in a high-percentage format that is generic and concept driven, rather than a series of specific and formatted methods - after all, footwork is a supporting act, not the star of the show, and everyone has an unconscious ability where footwork is concerned - until you make it complicated - so I enhance what is already working.

Grappling is covered - but in context like everything else. Initially it forms no part of the foundation material, as this is purely designed for worst case 'combat management' and grappling has no part in such situations. Grappling is covered for those that really need it, those that have to restrain individuals as part of a 'subject management' role requirement, and I make no apologies for concentrating on teaching what someone needs, rather than what they simply want instead.

In short what I present is purely operational, and this obviously does not fit with some people's expectations and I'll freely admit that these individuals are better served by learning a martial art. However I do not offer the usual collection of 'favourite techniques' and circus tricks that many choose to pass off as a combative system - it's all there, all integrated and cohesive - I just use fewer headings than most...

Mick

First, Welcome to MT :)

Thanks very much for that explanation. I think far too many people want to collect techniques, rather than learn the principles that govern those techniques and how to adapt those principles for use across the board.

I hope you didn't just sign up to post on this one thread, and will take advantage of the opportunity to share what you know and learn. Go over to the Meet and Greet and introduce yourself and let everyone welcome you.

[Mick Coup]

Actually Paul's been along to a couple of sessions, and works 'on the door' with one of my instructors in town.

I never rated Cardiff as a 'tough' town at all, I've lived here about 4 years (originally from Yorkshire - a long time ago!) and it's definitely a better atmosphere than many other places I've lived.

I'll certainly post more, however I have my own dedicated Q&A forum elsewhere and I try not to spread myself too thin to be honest!

Mick

[Tez3]

Actually Paul's been along to a couple of sessions, and works 'on the door' with one of my instructors in town.

I never rated Cardiff as a 'tough' town at all, I've lived here about 4 years (originally from Yorkshire - a long time ago!) and it's definitely a better atmosphere than many other places I've lived.

I'll certainly post more, however I have my own dedicated Q&A forum elsewhere and I try not to spread myself too thin to be honest!

Mick

If you are a friend of Pauls that's definitely good enough for me!! Don't ever, ever let him post on your forum however! he is an awesome fighter though, his MMA record is 39-41-7! I've heard his door record is even better lol!
Do post as often as you can here, it's a good place and your input will be valued. :)

[chinto]

low line strikes are a large part of traditional Okinawan karate systems.. I do not see anything that is not in the system I study and has not been there since it was founded.

[chav buster]

thanks for giving a better explanation mick then my attempt lol i will see you in a couple of weeks when you come down to london.

chinto, theres only so many ways the human body can move its how you train that counts. the x block and hiki uki (if thats how you spell it) are both used in thai boxing but differently to karate the x block is used to crash through punches and clinch and hiki uki is used to clinch this is probably how thay were meant to be used in karate .

[Mick Coup]

low line strikes are a large part of traditional Okinawan karate systems.. I do not see anything that is not in the system I study and has not been there since it was founded.

Low line strikes are a large part of just about every system...what point have I missed here?

Mick

[blindsage]

Wow, awesome. The longer I'm on here the more I appreciate MT. Thanks Mick for coming on here and giving and direct, useful, and....diplomatic summary of your system, and giving us a succinct statement on the additional depth of your more advanced teaching. I don't know that I'd agree with everything you say, but I don't in anyway doubt the quality of what you're doing and teaching.