Stereotypes... What kind of woman really does Martial arts?

[Just4Kicks]

When someone finds out I do martial arts I generally get the whole, "Wow... I never would have guessed. You don't look like the type of girl who'd do that..."

They all expect female MAs to be masculine, tall or feminazis. I'm short, feminine and I don't burn my bras (I need them to train dammit!). But what about you girls, do you get shocked reactions? Do you fit the sterotypes?

What kind of women really do martial arts?

[harlan]

You mean, what kind of women actually stick with it? What are the characteristics of women that get their butts to class, year in and year out? Practice when they aren't in class? Suppliment their physical knowledge with an intellectual component? Organize their lives and relationships in order to increase opportunities for more learning, and have a clear view of their priorities? The kind that overcome the myriad obstacles involved when she wants to pursue an interest?

I'd say: determined, intelligent and hardworking.

[Aniela13]

When someone finds out I do martial arts I generally get the whole, "Wow... I never would have guessed. You don't look like the type of girl who'd do that..."

They all expect female MAs to be masculine, tall or feminazis. I'm short, feminine and I don't burn my bras (I need them to train dammit!). But what about you girls, do you get shocked reactions? Do you fit the sterotypes?

What kind of women really do martial arts?

I'm with ya...once in a great while a friend I've known for a few years will find out that I'm in MA (took two years off, so that explains their confusion lol) and will say "hm, I guess that makes sense", but for the most part I get that same reaction you described. Which is funny in itself, because that shows that no single stereotype exists.

As for me...I'm a very determined person, I love getting in shape (differentiated from losing weight...I don't have weight to lose, but I do have a body that needs to get in shape lol), and I want to learn enough that I never (in the normal run of things; there will obviously be exceptions) have to be worried about being forced to do anything against my will. So that would be my description for this woman, and I think these plus other factors--such as what harlan stated--are a good place to start :)

~Ani

[Omar B]

Can I chime in here? My younger sister does karate with me, she started a year after I did and is pretty good (even got a couple trophies and medals). She's petite, gentle and a regular girly girl who no one would ever see as a threat. Make no mistake though, she's beaten the crap out of a couple guys who have tried to get handsy with her at school or out at the bar.

Sometimes a friend of mine will come over and admire the trophies in the living room assuming they are all mine and I have to tell them (to their shock) that no, only the ones on the left.

My experience with women in MA is mostly shaped by her. Confident, fit, gentle but a tough cookie when called for.

[KELLYG]

Just an average yr old women. To look at me you would not know that I had any martial arts training. One of my instructors said to me one day "I'd hate to be the poor innocent mugger that attacks you, they won't know what hit them." So its good to go round incognito!!

[Grendel308]

Well I'm like the rest of you girls except that I a femanazi when it comes up to standing up for other women.

I am short 5'2" (ish), small boned, feminine (most of the time), I like wearing dresses, have a terrible shoe fetish ( Italian leather heels), my house looks like a Ray Bradbury story because the plants are taking over, I love horses, I go to the horseraces, I go to the spa for the full on treatment with my girlfreind Judy, get pissed off when my favorite nylons get runs, go out on girls only nights and love real silk scarves. I don't come across as at all threatening or even capable of defending myself, unless I open my mouth or put my hands on you.

The reaction I get from no MA people varies from "why, is somebody after you", "that's so cool", " stop this silliness" "christ lori, now your crazy and dangerous" "do you like getting hurt?" " don't you have a boyfreind to protect you", " I've allways wanted to try that" (always the girls say this)

The variety of reaction I get shows me that most people don't have a clue what BJJ or Judo really is. The discount the mental/ defensive part and focus of the agressive attacking sliver they see in the media and try to reconcile that with my tiny frame. I think they are looking for Zena and found Olga Korbut.
lori

[MA-Caver]

What kind of women really do martial arts? For me... sexy ones. :uhyeah:

[Steve]

I'd say that it really depends upon the martial arts style and the woman involved.

[harlan]

Interesting. Are you suggesting that different arts might appeal differently? Or something else? Just curious. :)

[Kacey]

Every kind. I know plenty of female martial artists, and we are all different. The only thing we have in common is that one day we wandered (or were dragged) into a dojang of some type, found out we liked it, and never left.

I will say, however, that I've gotten that "Really? You're a martial artist? You don't look like a martial artist..." response quite a few times - and I've never been able to get anyone to tell me what a martial artist looks like, or acts like, or any other defining characteristic - just that I'm not what they expected.

[terryl965]

Kacey has hit it right on the head, Martial Artit comes in every shape and size and there is not one tracible mark except for heart and intregrity.

[Steve]

Interesting. Are you suggesting that different arts might appeal differently? Or something else? Just curious. :)
Exactly that, rather than replace one stereotype with another.

My experience has been that people gravitate towards arts that suit them. In general, the student body of a Wing Chun school will look/act/be different than the student body of a boxing gym. The student picks the style and the style itself shapes the student, whether man or woman.

Does that answer your question?

[Xue Sheng]

I have no idea what a female martial artist is suppose to look like. I imagine like every other woman on the planet. But then I have no idea what a male Martial Artist is supposed to look like either.

Does she (http://www.kungfuchampionship.com/images/judge_tiffany_chen.jpg) look like a martial artist… be honest

Now look (http://www.williamccchen.com/tiffanyfchen.htm) again

[harlan]

Just curious. I'm uncertain if the physical aspect is really a determining factor in whether or not a woman stays in any particular art. For example, I'm old and fat and study kobudo and karate. Yet, I've met plenty of old, fat women that seem to prefer Tae Kwon Do. The real difference between these 'not-so-hot' mamas and myself is personality; what we are looking for in our studies and the overall 'fit' of the style and teacher (MOST important factor) with personality...vs. physique.


Exactly that, rather than replace one stereotype with another.

My experience has been that people gravitate towards arts that suit them. In general, the student body of a Wing Chun school will look/act/be different than the student body of a boxing gym. The student picks the style and the style itself shapes the student, whether man or woman.

Does that answer your question?

[Steve]

Just curious. I'm uncertain if the physical aspect is really a determining factor in whether or not a woman stays in any particular art. For example, I'm old and fat and study kobudo and karate. Yet, I've met plenty of old, fat women that seem to prefer Tae Kwon Do. The real difference between these 'not-so-hot' mamas and myself is personality; what we are looking for in our studies and the overall 'fit' of the style and teacher (MOST important factor) with personality...vs. physique.Okay. I'm not sure I see where that contradicts what I said. I think that the word "looks" might have been unclear. I'm talking about more than just physical attributes.

Were I to say that a typical kindergarten class "looks" different than a 3rd grade class, I'm talking about a lot more than height and weight. The class itself would look VERY different in almost every meaningful way. Behavior, maturity, curriculum, structure...

[Carol]

You're losing me too.

So some arts have more mature people than others? :idunno: Which ones are the Kindegartners and which ones are the 3rd graders?

[harlan]

Mea culpa. I misread the original post. Rereading the bit about 'student body' I see it didn't mean to allude to physique being a determining factor.

Apologies. :o

(Been reading one two many 'fat' threads. ;) )

[Steve]

Oh for Pete's sake. you guys are reading too much into the post. I try to be brief (for once) and this is what happens.

Simply put, I don't think you can stereotype. The entire point of this thread seems to me to be about identifying a NEW stereotype. I think that's bogus. There are enough different MA styles that people have choices and will be drawn to the style that suits them. AND, at the same time, people will be influenced by the style in which they train. It goes both ways.

The rest seems, frankly, to be you guys looking for some kind of insult where there just isn't one and also to introduce gender where it's really irrelevant. In keeping with other current threads, you might just as well have said, "Stereotypes... what kind of overweight person really does martial arts?" The answer is, depends upon the person and the art involved. What kind of kid trains in martial arts? Depends upon the kid AND the art involved? Some kids gravitate to TKD and others join the wrestling team.

Carol, I'd say that the BJJ guys are the kindergartners... at least with all the fart jokes I hear at class, that's my guess. :D

[Carol]

Well I was gonna say because you both lay down on mats... :D

I'm sorry Steve - too many late nights and not enough sleep. My comprehension was not all there when I read your post. :o

[Steve]

Well I was gonna say because you both lay down on mats... :D

I'm sorry Steve - too many late nights and not enough sleep. My comprehension was not all there when I read your post. :o:) Not an issue. I'm not being clear. I have a lot of irons in the fire today. :D

[Jenna]

They all expect female MAs to be masculine, tall or feminazis. I'm short, feminine and I don't burn my bras (I need them to train dammit!). But what about you girls, do you get shocked reactions? Do you fit the sterotypes?


Is that really the stereotype of the female martial artist? Maybe twenty years ago. Even the great Hollywood font of female stereotyping would seem to disagree, no? I had thought the new martial arts female stereotype was a lithe latex-poured vampyre hunting bimbo with a figure like miscalculated geometry.

Not a single one of us is a stereotype imho.

I would have to say I do not think there is any stereotypical *kind* of woman that does martial arts any more than there is any stereotypical *kind* of man that looks after his children.

And but I am curious what made you ask the question?
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

[Steve]

Is that really the stereotype of the female martial artist? Maybe twenty years ago. Even the great Hollywood font of female stereotyping would seem to disagree, no? I had thought the new martial arts female stereotype was a lithe latex-poured vampyre hunting bimbo with a figure like miscalculated geometry. Not a stereotype... more a universal fantasy! :D

Kate Beckinsale (http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/071018/underworld_l.jpg)

[harlan]

Hollywood sterotyping is still in full swing.

1. Angelina Jolie 'Lara Croft' movies
2. Sai wielding Gardner
3. Kill Bill...various 'hot chicks'
4. Matrix
5. Etc.

Then their are the popular foreign imports. Can't recall seeing a single fight scene with 'normal' looking women in the past few years. I think my ALL TIME favorite was Brigitte Nielsen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000557/) in 'Red Sonya'. *snort* Like those puny arms could ever wield a sword...no muscles.

As long as popular media promulgates these fantasies, the stereotypes will persist.

[Steve]

First, I'd say there's a difference between media intended to influence people, like fashion magazines and such, and hollywood action movies.

Most of the examples you mention feature capable looking women, and I don't see a problem with that. Jolie, Carrie-Anne Moss, and Uma Thurman looked great in those movies and moved very well. They looked credible as action stars, and I think that's to be applauded. Most men don't look like the average male action star, either. It's fantasy. I'd add Linda Hamilton to your list, too. These are women who broke into a male dominated genre and managed to look both credible and feminine at the same time.

I wonder if maybe we should do a better job of teaching our kids the difference between real and make believe. Sometimes, I wonder if the really damaging stereotype is the one where we don't give our kids credit for understanding that simple distinction.


Hollywood sterotyping is still in full swing.

1. Angelina Jolie 'Lara Croft' movies
2. Sai wielding Gardner
3. Kill Bill...various 'hot chicks'
4. Matrix
5. Etc.

Then their are the popular foreign imports. Can't recall seeing a single fight scene with 'normal' looking women in the past few years. I think my ALL TIME favorite was Brigitte Nielsen (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000557/) in 'Red Sonya'. *snort* Like those puny arms could ever wield a sword...no muscles.

As long as popular media promulgates these fantasies, the stereotypes will persist.

[harlan]

Well, while I agree with the latter part of your post, I have to respectfully disagree with the first part. Unfortunately, I don't have any studies to reference, but I think that differentiating between the public's exposure to different genres simply gives too much credit for higher order processing.

Young males, and old males for the matter, don't read fashion magazines. Most of them don't know any female martial artists, and so the general 'image' will be informed from...popular media.

[Steve]

Well, while I agree with the latter part of your post, I have to respectfully disagree with the first part. Unfortunately, I don't have any studies to reference, but I think that differentiating between the public's exposure to different genres simply gives too much credit for higher order processing.

Young males, and old males for the matter, don't read fashion magazines. Most of them don't know any female martial artists, and so the general 'image' will be informed from...popular media.I think on the one hand you're not giving "people" enough credit for distinguishing between fantasy and reality.

On the other, I think you're giving men (particularly young men) too much credit for drawing any useful conclusions from having watched Kill Bill beyond, "ZOMG, Lucy Liu is so HAWT!" Nor should they. That's kind of the point. It's fantasy and these action stars are playing archtypical roles. They SHOULD be gawking at the flexibility and athleticism of these women... that's the entire idea. But I would argue that men (particularly young men) don't give a second thought about whether these women do or don't represent "female martial artists." Men, in general, are equal opportunity objectifiers. :)

[Steve]

Just to throw this out there, this (http://www.fightergirls.com/pictures.asp)is what comes to my mind when I think of female martial artists and has little to do with movies.

There are some very unnattractive female martial artists and some very, very pretty ones. Some are girly and others are not. Once again... if the idea is to react against a stereotype, my inclination would be to avoid promoting others that are just as misleading.

[Sukerkin]

A very good string of posts, gentlemen. My compliments.

I have to be honest that my thoughts on martial artists of female gender have been swayed by the 'movies' - but the movies I watched were martial arts ones, not Hollywood flicks with a patina of martial arts. So someone says "Name the first Female Martial Artist you think of!" and I answer "Cynthia Rothrock!".

[harlan]

Well...just performed an informal survey at work. For what it's worth, I asked non-MAists this question: Close your eyes, and picture in your mind what you think a female martial artist would look like. Describe her...be honest. The replies:

-a jock (respondant 58 yr old female)
-a young girl with that white top doing a karate chop, slim and dark haired (50 year old female)
-an asian woman with long hair, slim, in a white robe...and honestly...hot (58 year old male)
-my girlfriend/partner at a tkd event (27 year old female)
-a tall, asian woman...athletic in a white uniform (another 50ish male)

I'm sad...no one described me. :lol:

[super_newbie]

i only have 6 months of training under my belt (no pun intended) but i would have to say that no one is surprised to learn that i do MA training.
I'm tall, lean, with tattoos, and used to sing lead in a rock band so people already kind of have this idea of me as being a tough girl.
But I can get girly girly with the best of them!

[IcemanSK]

In my time in MA, I've had female instructors at nearly every school & few of them were ever the stereotype masculine female.

In fact, a dear friend of mine is this gal at BabydollRiley.net
Quite feminine (heck, downright girlie at times) but can also kick some booty.

I really don't think there is a stereotype today that was around 20 years ago or more.

[Dagney Taggert]

I don't have time to answer this, I am looking for my lip gloss...

[Just4Kicks]

It seems I forgot about this thread...

I asked the question because of the myriad reactions I get from people when they find out I do martial arts. These reactions can range from a "that's cool." to a strange look and a, "but I thought only butch chicks did martial arts...". I've even been asked if I was a lipstick lesbian because of it. haha

Actually, back in highschool, I was told that I intimidate the boys after I did a tkd demonstration at the school talent quest. Either that or they'd catcall about being able to beat me anytime, even if they had never been trained or in a fight their entire life and couldn't run 100 metres without wheezing. It was a pretty rough school though, most of the girls had been in some kind of fight so I don't see what the big deal was. Maybe it was because I wasn't using my nails?

But most of these blatant negative reactions ended with High school, I guess I deal with less fragile egos at University. Now it is mostly a "cool" and at worst they go "awww", like watching a kitten trying to scratch a big dog.

I got that from an ex boyfriend who told me that he could beat me any time. He said that it was "cute" that I was trying to be tough but I didn't need that anymore now I had him... naturally he didn't last very long.

But on the flip side, I have gotten the femme fatale response too, usually when friends come and watch me at competitions and think that the dobok and guards are not sexy enough.

I wonder what my instructor would say if I started coming to class dressed like a Charlie's Angel? ... I think I'll stick to my "white pyjamas".

[Tez3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fd0DWGLDpA

Dr. Rosi Sexton, TKD Dan grade and MMA champion.

Rosi is absolutely lovely, a shy person who is one of the best ambassadors of our sport. I know the guy who's photo is shown too and there was no need for the comment made at all.

[Becca]

I have to say I've gotten some very funny reactions too. The most common one is probably that I don't look like a martial artist. What exactly does a martial artist look like???

The funniest i've ever gotten was from my art teacher in my final year in highschool. She'd taught me four years when she found out. The look on her face was a real kodak moment. :D

[Jenny_in_Chico]

No one is EVER surprised when they discover I do martial arts.

[ChingChuan]

I have to say I've gotten some very funny reactions too. The most common one is probably that I don't look like a martial artist. What exactly does a martial artist look like???

Well, they definitely don't look like 1.54 m tall girls with 75 cm long hair... (but I do look Asian.)
Everyone gawks at me when I say I do martial arts. Some people don't even believe it, which is extremely annoying. Especially when a couple of boys start bragging about some technique to deflect a kick (they don't do martial arts at all, just 'saw something on TV') - they'll never believe me when I say it won't work, not even when I explain why. My boyfriend practises the same art as I do, but he started 1.5 years later. Still, everyone will talk to him regarding martial arts, even when he says he doesn't know the answer to their question and refers them to me...

But I'm getting used to it ;). At least I've got a nice advantage over potential attackers...

[Tiberius]

Maybe it depends on the age she starts. I am with somebody who does sports since age 4 and she is strong muscley assertive and dominant. However it might just be her personality. Like with most questions of that kind, you would need to do a research XD

[Blade96]

people surprised when i said i do MA. Because i dont look like one, either.

[Slipper]

People are usually surprised when I tell them. I love my dresses and sandals and tend to be more interested in home and hearth. People usually laugh when they hear it but then they want to know more.