Are they buttheads?

[chufeng]

Since there have been several negative posts about the YiLi people...what do the rest of you think?

Are we here just to cause trouble? or,
Do we provide good information? or,
Are we totally clueless?

I won't take offense to anyone's post, as I asked for your honest opinion...

I try and provide reasonable advice and commentary...if I (or my fellow YiLi practitioners) seem out of line, let me know...

I will seriously consider changing how I present myself in the future...provided the complaint has merit...

Here's your opportunity to unload folks...go for it.

I really mean it...:asian: chufeng

[SteelShadow]

Altho im not a big poster I do avidly read the posts and from what Ive seen youve conducted yourself respectably.

[Kingston]

im sorry but wtf is YiLi? i need more info before making a decision...

so far i cant realy think of many people who have not been banned that have not conducted themselves properly...

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by chufeng
Since there have been several negative posts about the YiLi people...what do the rest of you think?



Ahhhhhhh...:confused:
Think of me as an ignorant numb-nuts, thank you. ;)

However, I am curious of all the MAs. Please explain to me more about your Art... :asian:

[arnisador]

The "YiLi people" contribute a wealth of information and I enjoy reading their posts. They've contributed a great deal of very detailed historical info. as well as interesting thoughts on fighting. I'm glad they're here, to the last man (I think they're all men!).

What I suspect others are commenting on is that if you argue with one...you argue with them all! While the Yili people are polite--I've seen the accusations to the contrary and am largely unswayed--it's an inescapable feeling, I susepct, that starting an argument with one of them that gets at all heated leads to a feeling of being outnumbered very quickly--some may feel 'ganged up on'.

Again, a personal opinion as a poster--not on behalf of MartialTalk.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Well, whatever it's worth, I for one am not ganging up on anybody, I would just like to learn more about the YiLi Art ... :asian:

[MartialArtist]

I have never heard of Yiliquan until I've gotten here. Always nice to know more

[Zepp]

Martial Talk is the only place I've ever heard of Yiliquan either. So far, I have no complaints about any of the "Yili people."

Chufeng, I usually enjoy reading your posts. You do a good job of presenting information and giving your opinion without acting as though your word is gospel. That's all I could ask for in a fellow poster.

Just how many of you Yili people are there on here anyways?

[Mike Clarke]

From where I'm sitting [by the pc:p ], I'd have to say that the Yiliquan folk on this forum have been a breath of fresh air.
I've learn from at least two of you guys something about myself that I'd forgetten [or let slip anyway].

Can't say I'd heard of the system before coming to MT, but from the way you guys conduct yourselves, I would have to say your right on the button as far as I'm concerned when it comes to the value of training in the traditional 'way'.

This is not to say I've agreed with everything Yili members have had to say, but then we can't agree with each other on every point on every discussion.

In my opinion you guys bring a maturity that is lacking in some on this forum. But then I would say that, as [by the looks of things] I'm one of the 'older' guys here? :(

Mike.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Yiliquan1, Sir!!!

Please educate us on your Art.

And, Judo-kid , take a knee and listen up young pup... :asian:

[Matt Stone]

To One and All -

Yiliquan ("One Principle Boxing") is, regrettably, not a well known art. During the early '90s, anyone that participated at the national level with the AAU CMA division knew of us. We made some friends, made some enemies. Ce la vie.

Sifu (note: not Sigung, or any other self-serving title) Phillip Starr founded Yiliquan as a natural outgrowth of the Baixingquan, Xingyiquan, Taijiquan and Baguazhang that he had been practicing and teaching for years. The four arts are still practiced within the umbrella of Yiliquan, but the focus is on developing what makes Yiliquan Yiliquan.

The root of Yiliquan is the Baxingquan, or Eight Shape forms. Each shape presents a different method of footwork combined with strikes, kicks, joint locks and throws, to place the Yili student in a safe place while making the attacker nearly incapable of striking or escaping.

If anyone is interested in more, you can contact Yilisifu (Sifu Starr himself), Chufeng, Yilijinglei, ECYiLi, Wormtail, Erkki or myself to ask more questions. You are also welcome to visit our Yahoo club and ask questions there. Believe it or not, whatever some may think here, the ego gets checked at the door there. All of our opinions are right (to a degree), even when they appear to contradict each other. Yili is like that.

And don't call me "sir." I work for a living... :tank:

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin
Yiliquan1, Sir!!!

Please educate us on your Art.

And, Judo-kid , take a knee and listen up young pup... :asian:

And be nice to Judo-Kid... He got caught up in a thread that kind of put him on the spot - a put up or shut up situation. I don't envy him the attention he received. If he doesn't come train with us, we don't care. Even if he does, we don't care. The only reason the offer was ever presented was because he made comments about the inadequacies of "traditional training," without having the benefit of ever engaging in "traditional training" himself.

No worries.

But this is a thread about us Yiliquan people being perceived as the south ends of north bound donkeys... Let's keep it on point and not needlessly drag others into it.

And addressing that topic, I admit I may come across as an ass sometimes. I work with attorneys, and my main job currently is to examine, in extreme detail, records of trial for mistakes and errors in transcription, review defense requests for clemency, compose memoranda responding to said defense requests, etc. Essentially, it's my job to pick things apart. I know for a fact that I do that with posts I am at odds with - I wait for the other person to make a misstep, and I exploit that opening. I do it on purpose sometimes. Sometimes it just happens. Either way, I examine a person's post in sum, pick apart the weak spots, and address them directly. I always quote the entire post, to make sure I am not misquoting, but I always hit it like a prosecuting attorney.

That could make some folks uncomfortable when they argue with me. If it does, I apologize. Easy way to fix it is to simply acknowledge that I am the Master of Time, Space and Dimension, and accept that no matter what you say, if it is contrary to my perspective, you're wrong (unless you are Yilisifu or Chufeng, in which case, ignore everything I have just written...) :D

**NOTE - THAT WAS A JOKE! I DO NOT INTEND THAT LAST PARAGRAPH TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY! IF YOU TOOK IT SERIOUSLY, SEEK HELP IMMEDIATELY! **

And we aren't just members of the same school, style or tradition. We are all like family, and we tend to come to each other's aid, whether someone else asks for it or not... Oops.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

[Jill666]

No problems here.

Of course some Yili folks have been known to get involved in some wordy discussions that have gotten a bit heated, but I don't remember any poor behavior on Yiliquan1 or Chufeng's part. The others post less frequently on the more general discusions.

I don't know where this worry comes from, and don't really care.

Oh, did I mention that you both can be wordy? I did? Oh, ok. :D

Peace.:asian:

[RyuShiKan]

Chufeng,

As with most boards I see on the Internet there are those that know and can do, been there and gone on to deeper and more useful things in the Martial Arts and there are some who haven’t even arrived at the gate let alone rung the doorbell and entered to see what is on the inside………but unfortunately think they not only think they live in the house but own it as well. You can’t really enlighten those kinds of folks over the Internet.

From what I see of the Yili folks posts, and also Yiliquan 1 in action, I would say ya’ll are in the first part….the “gone on” part.
Many, but not all, of your detractors seem to be in the second bit.
It’s funny because I read some of their posts and think ……..”yeah I used to think that way years ago”………now that I have trained a few years (25+) I get to see that I really didn’t know as much, STILL don’t know very much, and have a LONG way to go.

I think the Yili people post accurate well menaing information that is based on fact and experience rather than something they read in Black Belt Magazine.

Keep up the good posts/information.

[chufeng]

Thanks for the feedback...

I was hoping some naysayers would have posted...
I am interested in WHY they feel we troll and bash :idunno:

chufeng

[Kroy]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
To One and All -

Yiliquan ("One Principle Boxing") is, regrettably, not a well known art. During the early '90s, anyone that participated at the national level with the AAU CMA division knew of us. We made some friends, made some enemies. Ce la vie.

Sifu (note: not Sigung, or any other self-serving title) Phillip Starr founded Yiliquan as a natural outgrowth of the Baixingquan, Xingyiquan, Taijiquan and Baguazhang that he had been practicing and teaching for years. The four arts are still practiced within the umbrella of Yiliquan, but the focus is on developing what makes Yiliquan Yiliquan.

The root of Yiliquan is the Baxingquan, or Eight Shape forms. Each shape presents a different method of footwork combined with strikes, kicks, joint locks and throws, to place the Yili student in a safe place while making the attacker nearly incapable of striking or escaping.

If anyone is interested in more, you can contact Yilisifu (Sifu Starr himself), Chufeng, Yilijinglei, ECYiLi, Wormtail, Erkki or myself to ask more questions. You are also welcome to visit our Yahoo club and ask questions there. Believe it or not, whatever some may think here, the ego gets checked at the door there. All of our opinions are right (to a degree), even when they appear to contradict each other. Yili is like that.

And don't call me "sir." I work for a living... :tank:

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:


I will continue to read your post, sir. I'm here to enjoy and as well to learn from everyone:asian:

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by chufeng
Since there have been several negative posts about the YiLi people...what do the rest of you think?

Are we here just to cause trouble? or,
Do we provide good information? or,
Are we totally clueless?

I won't take offense to anyone's post, as I asked for your honest opinion...

I try and provide reasonable advice and commentary...if I (or my fellow YiLi practitioners) seem out of line, let me know...

I will seriously consider changing how I present myself in the future...provided the complaint has merit...

Here's your opportunity to unload folks...go for it.

I really mean it...:asian: chufeng



I feel that the yili's have been helpful to me in the past and i think martial talk wouldnt be the same without them. They are always strait to the point like it or not I have not always seen eye to eye with everything they have posted but i do respect everyones opinion.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by chufeng
Thanks for the feedback...

I was hoping some naysayers would have posted...
I am interested in WHY they feel we troll and bash :idunno:

chufeng


From a personal point of view, only.

I agree with with Arnisador. It some times seems like you cannot win with the multiple attack. Also, you do have a strong belief in what you do, and that it is right. (* Note: If you did not then you might be looking for something else *) Yet, you sometimes seem to come across as not open to opinions that differ from your groups / organizations views. Now, you do present you views in detal, and that is fine. As for me I have never been stepped on, by any of the YiLi contingent :). I wish you the best in your trianing and postng here.

Have a nice day! :)

:asian:

[Cryozombie]

Nope... Ive never had a problem with the comments of any of the Yili people.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1


And don't call me "sir." I work for a living... :tank:

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

Thank you for enlightening us with the info on your MA. And, since you are probably an enlisted man as I used to be, I will from now on refrain from addressing you as "sir"... :asian:

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
And be nice to Judo-Kid... He got caught up in a thread that kind of put him on the spot - a put up or shut up situation. I don't envy him the attention he received. If he doesn't come train with us, we don't care. Even if he does, we don't care. The only reason the offer was ever presented was because he made comments about the inadequacies of "traditional training," without having the benefit of ever engaging in "traditional training" himself.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

And you're correct, my apologies to the J-kid... :o

[Kirk]

The only thing I could possibly comment on are the arguments
that have happened with 12th dans of their own system. At
one point, I did think to myself "why do they even bother, they're
not going to change this guy's mind". But more and more as I
reflected on it ... I KNOW for a fact that I could have SO EASILY
signed up with one of these guys, when I first started out. I
ended up in what i feel to be a good school purely by luck. So
I side with you .. cons should be exposed. And to be quite honest
I enjoy reading the hot threads (within reason).

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Yet, you sometimes seem to come across as not open to opinions that differ from your groups / organizations views. Now, you do present you views in detal, and that is fine. As for me I have never been stepped on, by any of the YiLi contingent :). I wish you the best in your trianing and postng here.

Have a nice day! :)

:asian:

As for myself, I like to consider myself very open to opinions and views from outside of Yiliquan. So much so that I actually catch hell from some of our seniors (well, one in particular, but he is my dearest friend in the world and the godfather to my kids, so he actually does it with the best interests in mind) for having interests, opinions and views that are not necessarily in line with the strict, othodox teachings of Yiliquan. Personally, from what I know of my teacher's background, I think my openness to other things is more exemplary of real Yili that strict adherence to the letter of the teachings... The letters don't mean anything if you can't understand the spirit and intent of what is being taught.

Anyway.

In my arguments with others, I remain steadfast in my positions unless and until the other party can explain their opinions in sufficient detail to defend their perspective. If a person simply states "I think X," but is completely unable to explain why or how, then it is my opinion that that person doesn't really understand "X," much less believes it. He has been taught "X" and now parrots the teaching. That is all. In a recent "duel" with AKJA, we at first butted heads rather violently. By the end of the thread, AKJA was able to completely explain his standpoint. I now understand his perspective, and respect it completely.

When I am shown to be wrong, I admit it. (e.g. see this thread: Languages (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=108353#post108353) )

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

P.S. Jill666 - was that wordy enough for ya? :D

[TLH3rdDan]

i feel that the entire yili group is polite and straight forward... they are always eager to share their opinions and are also pretty helpfull to anyone who asks... i have no problems with any of them and i think its great having them here

[chufeng]

As many of you may have noticed...our most verbose student is YiLiQuan1...but he also represents us very well.

I don't agree with everything he says...but, unless I'm absolutely sure that my position holds more water, I won't knock heads with him...

You see, most of us YiLi folks are VERY interested in all arts...and the longer we train the more we realize the commonalities within and among the various arts...However, (and this is outside of the thread) we are also very traditional in our approach to training.
AND, we are open enough to allow dissent among our own ranks, let alone those from other systems...

I think the seniors in our system have finally gotten to that point where we each see the contributions others can make to the system, as a whole, by doing things a bit differently...my way of teaching is very different from the head teacher at our Omaha branch...but we each recognize the contributions each of us make to the WHOLE...

Other arts are like that, too...the HEART of a system will almost always LOOK the same...the external techniques may be very different, however. We are interested in showing HOW to get to the HEART of your system...sometimes we step on toes (not intentionally (well sometimes)) and other times people simply view us a s pushy, arrogant, or know-it-alls...That is not what we are trying to convey...but it sometimes comes across that way.

OK, I'm the second most verbose...:wink:

Good day to all of you and thanks for the feedback.

:asian:
chufeng

[SRyuFighter]

You've always conducted yourselves respectfully to me. I mean come on we can't all have the same opinion right? I wouldn't let the SD guys get you down.

[chufeng]

SRyuFighter,

I'm not posting this because of SD folks...(I don't know anything about them).

I am truly interested in putting my best foot forward...
Sometimes, it is necessary to get honest feedback...both good and bad...and that is what this post is about: "How can I become better"

...I've seen several naysayers in other threads, but they haven't posted here...

Since most of the comments have been positive, I'll just keep conducting myself as I have in the past...but I invite anyone to comment on any of my posts...this is not a monologue...it is a dialogue!

Thanks for the feedback

:asian:
chufeng

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by chufeng
As many of you may have noticed...our most verbose student is YiLiQuan1...but he also represents us very well.

Verbose? Who's verbose? I bathe every day!!! :D


I don't agree with everything he says...but, unless I'm absolutely sure that my position holds more water, I won't knock heads with him...

Heck, I don't even agree with everything I say or do most times... Sometimes I'm unequivocally right, other times I haven't the slightest shred of what might be mistaken for a clue.


You see, most of us YiLi folks are VERY interested in all arts...and the longer we train the more we realize the commonalities within and among the various arts...However, (and this is outside of the thread) we are also very traditional in our approach to training.
AND, we are open enough to allow dissent among our own ranks, let alone those from other systems...

When people are no longer allowed to have their own experiences of their art, and to have the opportunity (once certain requirements are met) to make the art their own, then the art dies. Having "dissent" encourages growth and development.


I think the seniors in our system have finally gotten to that point where we each see the contributions others can make to the system, as a whole, by doing things a bit differently...my way of teaching is very different from the head teacher at our Omaha branch...but we each recognize the contributions each of us make to the WHOLE...

Amen.


Other arts are like that, too...the HEART of a system will almost always LOOK the same...the external techniques may be very different, however. We are interested in showing HOW to get to the HEART of your system...sometimes we step on toes (not intentionally (well sometimes)) and other times people simply view us a s pushy, arrogant, or know-it-alls...That is not what we are trying to convey...but it sometimes comes across that way.

You're right... I'm neither pushy nor arrogant... :D


OK, I'm the second most verbose...:wink:

I thought you bathed often enough, so I don't think you're verbose at all... :D

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

[SRyuFighter]

My mistake then, I thought this was stemming off of the Pa Kua Rules thread.

[yilisifu]

I'm glad to hear that we (Yili people) have presented ourselves well. I know that there are occasional disagreements, but that's to be expected in any forum.....it's when the disagreement breaks down into name-calling, accusations, and the like that the whole system falls apart.

We're all here to learn from each other, to share experiences, thoughts, opinions, and feelings. At least that's why I'm here.

And I have bathed already today! :D

[Kirk]

Originally posted by yilisifu
I'm glad to hear that we (Yili people) have presented ourselves well. I know that there are occasional disagreements, but that's to be expected in any forum.....it's when the disagreement breaks down into name-calling, accusations, and the like that the whole system falls apart.

We're all here to learn from each other, to share experiences, thoughts, opinions, and feelings. At least that's why I'm here.

And I have bathed already today! :D

Well said!

[theletch1]

One of my first posts to this forum was regarding a very disheartening experience with an instructor. I was almost to the point of giving up my training. Chufeng responded to my post in a logical and enlightening manner and my training continues to this day because of that response. I have no complaints with the yili folks. I don't think that this forum would be as popular as it is without the occasional disagreement so long as those occasional disagreements don't turn into constant flamewars.

[Matt Stone]

Nah, don't believe him. We are all just trolls, bashers, flamers and miscreants of assorted backgrounds...

We all suck and don't know a thing. Couldn't find our butt with both hands, a map, a compass and a torch to light the way...

:D:D:D

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Nah, don't believe him. We are all just trolls, bashers, flamers and miscreants of assorted backgrounds...

We all suck and don't know a thing. Couldn't find our butt with both hands, a map, a compass and a torch to light the way...

:D:D:D

*whew* ... now I didn't have to say it!

:p

They need a smilie here that thumbs it's nose and sticks out it's
tongue.

Would love to learn more in person about your art. You guys sure
seem to have strong passions about it ... which is majorly cool.

[Matt Stone]

It's easy to be passionate when you know you are always right... :D

Seriously, though, I have studied Aikido, Karate and Modern Arnis besides Yili, and the only other art I would ever consider studying would be Ryu Te Karate, and then only because it is already so similar in so many ways to Yili!!!

I have trained with people from Shotokan, Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, Wing Chun (at least that's what he said he studied) and Jujutsu, and competed against all sorts of styles in the past... The only art I really think is worth doing based on that experience (and I have to admit that I constantly evalutate why and what I am doing) is Yiliquan.

I want to learn more arnis, I want to learn Shinto Muso-ryu Jojutsu, and I want to learn more Ryu Te Karate from RyuShiKan when I go back to Japan. But I would never jump ship for another style (except maybe Ryu Te, as stated above). I just have yet to find another style that addresses everything in as much completeness as Yili does.

I still don't know what the hell I'm talking about though... ;)

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

[chufeng]

It's easy to be passionate when you know you are always right...

I'll spank you on Saturday for that remark...
You will be there, won't you?

chufeng

[Matt Stone]

Hey, hey, hey!!! Don't forget the :D at the end of that comment!!!

Don't hit! Don't hit! ;)

Yep. I will be there this Saturday. Soccer game at 1130, so I have to leave early, but it is the last soccer game of the season.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:

[Kirk]

I for one like y'all's (YES it's a word) free flowing of information,
and senses of humor. But in you quests to "expose frauds" y'all
are coming across like a mob. MRJ, or whatever nick he goes by
now can't even post without y'all pouncing on him. The job is
done, he's been revealed as someone that won't share where is
got his 8th in paing-something-or-other, and the horse is dead.
A couple threads locked as a result. PLEASE ... enough is enough,
let the guy be. I wouldn't take the time to calculate, but I'd say
you guys comprised the majority of posts yesterday, over the
same old thing. If you're really out to expose frauds, move on,
maybe you're missing 1 or 2.

When y'all are NOT in debate with MRJ and what not, there's
witty, and/or knowledgeable posts, free and peaceful exchanges
of info that newbies like myself learn from. But God forbid if he
posts somewhere, cause that flow stops abruptly. The horse is
dead, decaying and flesh is falling of it's bones!

[chufeng]

I agree...and actually stopped hitting that horse with a stick a while back...Thanks for the reminder to get back to what this boar's about.

:asian:
chufeng

[Matt Stone]

When a person posts something that is thought provoking, for better or for worse, people respond. The fact that MRJ draws as much attention as he does should be an indicator of interest in what he is saying (again, for better or for worse).

I haven't addressed him directly about his background in quite a while. His student has made some comments after everyone apparently agreed to let the issue die, and I responded to him and asked him to let it die...

The issue stands as is. I am hoping to find other more interesting things to discuss...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by chufeng
Since there have been several negative posts about the YiLi people...what do the rest of you think?

Are we here just to cause trouble? or,
Do we provide good information? or,
Are we totally clueless?

I won't take offense to anyone's post, as I asked for your honest opinion...

I try and provide reasonable advice and commentary...if I (or my fellow YiLi practitioners) seem out of line, let me know...

I will seriously consider changing how I present myself in the future...provided the complaint has merit...

Here's your opportunity to unload folks...go for it.

I really mean it...:asian: chufeng

I think you guys are pretty honest. Just a bit inya face at times. Not a problem for me as I for one would like to consider that I might have learned some things in here and maybe see from the other side a bit better than before. :asian:

[James Kovacich]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yiliquan1

In my arguments with others, I remain steadfast in my positions unless and until the other party can explain their opinions in sufficient detail to defend their perspective. If a person simply states "I think X," but is completely unable to explain why or how, then it is my opinion that that person doesn't [I]really understand "X," much less believes it. He has been taught "X" and now parrots the teaching. That is all. In a recent "duel" with AKJA, we at first butted heads rather violently. By the end of the thread, AKJA was able to completely explain his standpoint. I now understand his perspective, and respect it completely.

When I am shown to be wrong, I admit it. (e.g. see this thread: Languages (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=108353#post108353) )

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:


For that one I have to give you an A++

And is Yili really a lot like Ryu Te? :asian:

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by akja
And is Yili really a lot like Ryu Te? :asian:

Yes, but not at all... :D

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[jfarnsworth]

Chufeng,
You guys are cool with me.:D

[Matt Stone]

Jason -

You should raise the standards on what you think is cool... :D

Gambarimasu.
:asian: