Martial Arts Legislation In Texas!

[Brian R. VanCise]

http://martialartsbusinessdaily.com/424/texas-martial-arts-day-care/

[shesulsa]

Mmmmm ... sorry. Any child's class that lasts longer than two hours is some kind of scholastic or childcare facility. No martial arts class for kids lasts longer then two hours, c'mon.

[terryl965]

Well this will stop alot of money making people, but may I remind all of you that world class future Olympians train three to four hours a day, not just martial arts but Gumnastics and skiing and shape shooting. This will become a big problem within our community of schools.

[arnisador]

Some people have summer m.a. camps that last all day...

[SFC JeffJ]

There is a school near me that picks the kids up from school, has them work on their homework, and then gets around to martial arts training.

Schools like this one should be considered day care, but the vast majority of them shouldn't.

[tshadowchaser]

I may have read the article wrong but I did not see where it specified children’s classes that lasted that long only martial arts classes which could be adult the way I read it.
Personally I think that 2 hours for a child’s class is way to long. The camps that kids go to usually do not do continual training for kids ( or maybe in your area they do) but are broken up with rest periods, games, food, etc.
To me it looks like a new way of governing what is done in a martial arts school and a new way to rake in revenue for the state. People in Texas need to fight this in congress and the courts if necessary

[terryl965]

Tshadow you are corect, like my school one month before National we host a mini camp that has training for six hours but we only go for about 55 minutes than have a thirty minute rest period and then go into sparring statigies and the proper techiniques and then ring management. This is always the case for high level athletes that want to make a National team or try to get an Olympic spot. This is a money hungry Government and that is what we do not need.

[milewskiw]

I believe they are trying to close a loophole. Many schools run an after school program that is martial arts based, as long as that is the primary focus then they do not need to register as a day care or after school care facility, subject to all the licensing requirements and regulations and fees. the program then allows the school to make good money to offset adult programs.

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

I live in Texas, and that would SUCK.

All I have to say.

[jks9199]

I think it's about time... There may be issues with the language of the bill -- but if the program looks like a daycare, with some martial arts (or gymnastics or dance or whatever) thrown in the mix, it should be treated as a daycare. The staff/student ratio should be proper, the staff should have the proper training, and the other activities they do should be appropriately monitored and run. Many MA schools in my area run afterschool programs where they pick the kids up from school -- and keep them until the parents get home from work. That's thinly disguised daycare. In several cases, they only have one or two staff members to 30 or 40 kids -- and the staff barely speaks English. I know of one incident where they managed to take two van loads of kids (total of 20 or so kids) to a local park -- and didn't manage to bring all the kids back. I'm not saying that requiring the MA programs to register and meet standards of day care would stop an error like that in and of itself -- but it might help!

[LuckyKBoxer]

I know that there is similar wording in the laws regarding day caresin California. It does not specify martial arts necessarily, but it talk about anyone that has a certain number of children in their care for a certain amount of time every day.
I have it saved somewhere, and specifically looked at all the necessary changes I would have to make to comply with the law if I had children in my care for anything approaching their limits.
I have to go back and relook at it, I remember calling specifically about the summer camps we hold at the school, which is one week long, and 4 1/2 a day. I do not remember what the exact specifications are, but I do remember that we were in compliance and not at risk of having to get the required certifications for day care with what we were doing. I also remember that there is a series of warnings that will give anyone plenty of time to make the changes they need before getting into trouble.... assuming of course they are not doing anything else illegal.

Personally I think its a great idea for people that hit those threshholds.. I have seen martial arts schools around here that offer child pick up services from school, have a specific area in their schools for kids to do schoolwork at a desk and chairs, offer some kind of meal and or snacks for the kids, and do karate for a 45 minute to 1 hour class, then keep the kid till the parent comes and gets them.... That is day care anyway you look at it, it just has a karate class tossed in the middle of it.

[celtic_crippler]

...thinks your martial arts school is a daycare facility.

Well...sigh... that about sums up the image martial arts has in today's Western cultures at least....

[kittybreed]

Hmm. I know of some martial arts schools that have "Movie Nights" where they watch movies once a month [usually on a Saturday night] while the parents can go for the evening knowing their children are in good hands. I guess this would stop that. Perhaps any "childcare" over a certain number of hours should be considered "daycare" but if it's less that once a week, I wouldn't want to go that far.

[jks9199]

Hmm. I know of some martial arts schools that have "Movie Nights" where they watch movies once a month [usually on a Saturday night] while the parents can go for the evening knowing their children are in good hands. I guess this would stop that. Perhaps any "childcare" over a certain number of hours should be considered "daycare" but if it's less that once a week, I wouldn't want to go that far.
To me, it's simple.

Is the activity looking and sounding more like child care than martial arts training? Then it should be treated as such. Otherwise, it's sports/MA/whatever.

Want to give the parents of your students an opportunity for a night out? Fine. MAKE THE ACTIVITY ABOUT MARTIAL ARTS. Watch a MA movie, ideally one that espouses some ideas you believe in and try to teach. Watch the Olympic TKD or Judo competitions (if you can find them...)

[Sandpaperhead]

When I was doing TKD as a kid from 12-14 my mom made me train 6 days a week during spring break. 7 am- 12 noon, then again from 5 pm to 10 pm.

[ArmorOfGod]

When I was doing TKD as a kid from 12-14 my mom made me train 6 days a week during spring break. 7 am- 12 noon, then again from 5 pm to 10 pm.

So, were you in a martial arts daycare several hours a day? It sounds like it.

AoG

[ATC]

Well this will stop alot of money making people, but may I remind all of you that world class future Olympians train three to four hours a day, not just martial arts but Gumnastics and skiing and shape shooting. This will become a big problem within our community of schools.
This is ture, but those are not classes offered to the masses. World class athletes are spotted early on and are given the one on one type training needed to compete at that level, and it may only be 1 - 4 of them at the most. This is not a class but specialized training for a select few.

My two kids both have this privileged at their dojang. They go and meet the instructor at 2:00PM each day and train from 2 - 4. He then feeds them and then they come back at 4:30 and they then train others in the classes that start at those times. Then from 6:00PM to 7:00 they train some more with the instructor then they go home and train some more. They also have training before they go to the dojang everyday also which consist of stretching and conditioning.

The only time they have off is Sunday. There are only 3 people that get this specialized training, and it is not a class nor can anyone just sign up for it. It is not even advertized. The only way you even know about it, is when the instructor comes to you and meets with you as a parent and asks your permission. We do not pay for it at this time as they are young and have promise and when they go to tournaments it is free publicity for the school when they win. He gets to use them as the “you to can be this good if … _____” (fill in the blank). Once they become Jr. and Sr. there will be many camps that they will have to attend that will cost many dollars, but for now it is this, which I appreciate very much.

If there are classes’ advertised and scheduled for over 2 hours then this is indeed a day care. I could see a summer camp type activity but not an everyday set of classes.

[sadantkd]

a money hungry Government .


Ding Ding Ding. Pencils down. The winner of today's "Most Redundent Phrase" has been determined.

[Mark Jordan]

The attention span of kids is limited and 2 hours is too long for them. I think they're doing this to circumvent some legal issues.

[Stac3y]

I want to know more about "Gumnastics." :angel:

[scottie]

Originally Posted by terryl965 http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1132254#post1132254)
a money hungry Government


Ding Ding Ding. Pencils down. The winner of today's "Most Redundent Phrase" has been determined.


money hungry instructors in "a money hungry Government"

I just think it is sad that people who have a passion for the arts have to be punished because of money hungry "instructors". Belt factories, Karate camps, $100 belt test, “after school daycare programs” where does it end. I think I am going talk all of me students into quitting school and start a private home/karate school (i will only charge $600 a month). It is one thing if you are training for a martial sporting event. I am not even against having a fun together outside of class, but if you have to do all that to pay the rent maybe it is just too high. Then again maybe I'm just traditional dinosaur at my ripe old age of 30 or perhaps I am just jealous because I am not smart enough to use my passion to make a living and in some cases take advantage of people.

[Mark Jordan]

Day cares are lobbying to pass the bill because this would entice more kids into their facilities and increase their profits. This,however, is a devastation to gymnastics and will disrupt sports training and recreational opportunities.

[Nomad]

To me, it's simple.

Is the activity looking and sounding more like child care than martial arts training? Then it should be treated as such. Otherwise, it's sports/MA/whatever.

Want to give the parents of your students an opportunity for a night out? Fine. MAKE THE ACTIVITY ABOUT MARTIAL ARTS. Watch a MA movie, ideally one that espouses some ideas you believe in and try to teach. Watch the Olympic TKD or Judo competitions (if you can find them...)

We had a program going for awhile (person running it left, and it's fallen by the wayside) which was a "Parents' night out", once a month for 3 h on a Saturday night. The night had a 1h karate class, a meal (pizza, cookies, etc), and a movie (since there were younger kids present, it had to be an age appropriate one... Kung Fu Panda and Mulan were popular choices, but not all were martial arts oriented).

They did not make any money for the dojo (cost $5-10, fee went to the pizza, sodas, etc... any leftover was split between the 2-3 teenage helpers for the class), but were a great way to give something back to the parents, and occasionally brought in new members when the kids brought their friends along.

[jks9199]

We had a program going for awhile (person running it left, and it's fallen by the wayside) which was a "Parents' night out", once a month for 3 h on a Saturday night. The night had a 1h karate class, a meal (pizza, cookies, etc), and a movie (since there were younger kids present, it had to be an age appropriate one... Kung Fu Panda and Mulan were popular choices, but not all were martial arts oriented).

They did not make any money for the dojo (cost $5-10, fee went to the pizza, sodas, etc... any leftover was split between the 2-3 teenage helpers for the class), but were a great way to give something back to the parents, and occasionally brought in new members when the kids brought their friends along.
It's a nice service. But it's NOT a martial arts related activity. It's something your martial arts school is choosing to do as a service for the parents. Just like the cook out my club had the other night; we did about 5 minutes of MA related stuff -- it was mostly a cook out.

Occasional events are one thing... but the summer camps and after school programs that do an hour of TKD (most commonly), and the rest of the 3 hours or so are semi-structured, semi-supervised... it's day care in a thin disguise, and should be regulated and controlled as such. Not have 30 or 40 kids and 2 instructors who barely speak English (happened...). I think it's unfair that martial arts schools get to compete with daycare but don't have to meet the standards, including background checks of workers. I think it's often downright dangerous. And I'd say the same thing about a gymnastics club, track team, or whatever. Football and baseball summer camp programs are typically a week or two, and are about football or baseball. Lots of martial arts "summer camps" run all summer and only have small part of the day devoted to martial arts.

[Nomad]

It's a nice service. But it's NOT a martial arts related activity. It's something your martial arts school is choosing to do as a service for the parents. Just like the cook out my club had the other night; we did about 5 minutes of MA related stuff -- it was mostly a cook out.

I definitely won't disagree with this, and see them in a similar manner to having a movie night event where a bunch of us get together in a less formal setting to watch a good movie at the theater. Great for bonding and so on... not really "martial" (even if we're watching The Last Samurai or 300).

It's an extra service or perk coming from the people running the dojo... it may help create more loyalty or sense of belonging in the students and parents involved, and it occasionally brings in new blood, but it is very much a peripheral activity to regular training.

I also strongly agree that martial arts schools who are acting as de-facto daycares (school pick up, aftercare, and so-on) should be held to the same standards as licensed daycare facilities.

The concern comes in how tightly the legislation may be written, which could make activities like the above, or like having a weekend training camp, illegal under the statutes.

[tellner]

If you're running an after-school daycare center you're running an after-school daycare center and should be subject to the same laws as other such businesses.

[Sandanchris]

I hear ya, at most I have my kids class is 1:25-1:30 at most, even by then the kids are worn out and wanting to get the heck out of class.


Mmmmm ... sorry. Any child's class that lasts longer than two hours is some kind of scholastic or childcare facility. No martial arts class for kids lasts longer then two hours, c'mon.