Sparring Do's and Dont's

[terryl965]

What are some of the rules inside the school you train in.

With me all under belts can go as hard as they like with upperbelts. Same belt level about 80% and of course with lower belt fight at there speed. What I like is full contact fighting for all BB withen the same age range and what I mean is a BB that is sixty and one that is Twenty the twenty year old should go at the older BB level, I know some people feel this is wrong but for me it is essentail for the older guy to continue to come in for training to much and they do not come back.

[mango.man]

Our rule is "Be a good team mate" which means push your opponent harder than they will be pushed in competition.

[bluekey88]

Typically, our sparring classes start out with various drills (kick combos, footwork, etc.) We then encourage the students to try to utilize those things in the live sparring. Sparring is not about winning...it's about learning and practice. Don't let fear of failure hold you back or you will neveer gro as a fighter.

[igillman]

No headshots.

The power level is determined by the instructor based upon who is fighting. Two people of high rank and the same build can go 100%. Me (200 Lbs) vs a teenage blackbelt (120 Lbs) would be me at 50% and them at 100%.

The last words spoken by the instructor before the fight... "Don't sue".

[searcher]

Our rules are very similar to yours, Terry. We also don't allow spine side kicking or groin shots in class(I know of a few in my area that do). I allow the students to go to the ground, but only if the transition does not go against the joint. All levels get face contact and you can use knees and elbows with control. No Kicking against the joint.

[firerex]

our "6 rules of sparring" are:
1. always keep your guard up
2. be an effective blocker
3. kick and punch in combonation
4. kick and punch above the belt
5. attack the 5 target areas
6. stay busy, flury in, flury out

our 2 rules of competition:
1. dont get hit
2. dont miss

[Laurentkd]

We say that the senior rank should match the junior rank. Meaning how ever hard the junior rank comes in, that senior should do the same (not as in the junior is giving 100% so I'll hit with 100%, but rather the junior is doing middle contact, so I'll do middle contact), and stay at their level (or just a little above to push the junior). Two equally matched fighters will quickly tell eachother how hard they want to go after they bow and before they start and go from there.

[suicide]

with my one orange belt student i tend to push him and put him to the test with out hurting him , but to tell the truth some of his wild kicks and punches are no joke its a must wear a cup :jediduel:

[JadeDragon3]

WOW.....I didn't realize how many schools and/or styles don't allow hitting to the head. That is just unbelievable! At both my martial art schools that I went to they allowed kicks and punches to the front and back of the head. wearing head protection was optional. We were required to wear hand pads and foot pads, mouth gaurd, and a groin cup. That was all we had to wear. At my first school foot pads were optional as well as a groin cup. We went pretty hard. We were told not to kick to the groin and kicks had to be above the waist. We could sweep the front leg but no base leg sweeps. That was pretty much the only rules. And let me tell you, we got pretty rough sometimes but thats good for you to experience because you'll need that toughness when in real fight situations come around.

[Twin Fist]

below brown: stay off the face, otherwise, go for it. i tell them that if they hit me in the face i wil return the favor. it usually gets the message across.

Brown and higher: whatever, dont suck, dont be a wuss

[Carley]

I'm only a yellow belt, and I've never actually sparred, but my instructor has told us enough times for us to know the general rules ^^;;

No punches to the head - because it's too easy :P Kicks only, and none to the face. Anywhere else is fine.
EVERYTHING above the belt.
"Sparring is like a game of tag", not full force knock-'em-down brawl.
Kicks to the back aren't allowed.

Then there's the rules everyone uses - guard up always, be sportsmanlike, apologize if you made a mistake :)

[Twin Fist]

you people with your no groin shots give me a giggle

[Thesemindz]

you people with your no groin shots give me a giggle

Now now, that's not very nice.

Some schools don't allow groin shots, or sweeps, or leg kicks, or head strikes, or kidney, spine, or bladder strikes.

It's all in what you're training for. If you are training for a specific sporting event with specific rules, it makes sense to train with those rules in mind. If you are training for self defense, it makes sense to throw the rules out the window. In which case, everything goes, while still taking the students' skill level into account. I wouldn't recommend take downs and chokes for beginners, but I would for intermediate and advanced. Hell, some schools will have you do that stuff your first day.

But if anyone tells you no strikes to the head because it's "too easy," they're full of it. Go around trying to punch people in the head at the mall. It aint as easy as you might think, even against untrained civilians. People instinctively protect their head, they throw their arms up, they duck away. If someone says no head shots because they aren't points here, fine. If someone says no head shots because they don't want to get sued, fine. If someone says no head shots because they don't want to shell out for mouth guards and head gear, fine. But if someone feeds you a line like, "it's too easy," they're selling something. Don't buy it.


-Rob

[Empty Hands]

I'm only a yellow belt, and I've never actually sparred, but my instructor has told us enough times for us to know the general rules ^^;;

I've never understood this. I sparred from white belt on. Sparring is a part of every test for us, at every level. For all that, we're not even a huge sparring oriented school.


No punches to the head - because it's too easy :P

Remarkable. The head is the most vulnerable part of your body, and damage to it makes the most difference in a fight. You'd think your Master would want you to learn how to protect it.

One thing is for sure, your guard will not be developed like it should if no one is every trying to tag you in the head.

[Empty Hands]

below brown: stay off the face, otherwise, go for it. i tell them that if they hit me in the face i wil return the favor. it usually gets the message across.

Brown and higher: whatever, dont suck, dont be a wuss


you people with your no groin shots give me a giggle

Right on, my brother.

[dortiz]

I say better practice avoiding groin shots while you have a cup on then trying to learn it on the street naked.


Dave O.

[Carley]

I've never understood this. I sparred from white belt on. Sparring is a part of every test for us, at every level. For all that, we're not even a huge sparring oriented school.

Remarkable. The head is the most vulnerable part of your body, and damage to it makes the most difference in a fight. You'd think your Master would want you to learn how to protect it.

One thing is for sure, your guard will not be developed like it should if no one is every trying to tag you in the head.

We do practice sparring, just no contact for low ranks. Tournaments are optional, and I don't have sparring gear, otherwise I'd go.
He does teach us to protect our heads. The foam swords see a lot of action with arms (and faces, if we don't block it). And if we can get a good height match-up, we do one-steps where we block hammerfists to our heads. We /do/ learn self-defense,
Just a note - Yellow is the first up from white. I know some others have other colors inbetween that. I've only been in this class for barely 7 months, so someone else might be able to have a good debate with you about this :c

[hkfuie]

I say better practice avoiding groin shots while you have a cup on then trying to learn it on the street naked.


Dave O.

LOL! Learning on the street NAKED!

I'd love to watch that class.

[terryl965]

LOL! Learning on the street NAKED!

I'd love to watch that class.

Only if they are loaded

[Manny]

First I have to say I do not do kyorugi so much, but what I like to do when have to is to be polite with my classmate, I don't like to be harsh, so I try to be not be caught and try to deliver good solid blows without risking my classmates.

Maybe I'm wrong but don't like to brutaly beat a classmates cause we are all gentelmen and friends.

However there are times when my foe wants to stand up and try to nail old Manny and maybe forget we are sparring not doing war, then and only then I can be rough if necesary.

When I spar with young people or lower belts I always try to make them confortably and given them a chance, they need to overcome their fears so I let them to kick me a little but alwasy with a reminder, If they leave a gape where I can kick I will kick.

So this is my way of thinking on kyorugi:

1.-Always be polite and quiet.
2.-Never show fear.
3.-Fare play always.
4.-If 1,2 and 3 are not possible cause my foe is rough and unpolite then fight hard like a crazy m....

Manny

[Twin Fist]

i make my students beat the hell out of me. it is good for them, to get over the fear of hitting someone, and to keep my pain tolerance up.

but i make them earn it. they screw up, i drop them

they are too timid, i jump on them

i will not have any wuss students

[Thesemindz]

We do practice sparring, just no contact for low ranks. Tournaments are optional, and I don't have sparring gear, otherwise I'd go.
He does teach us to protect our heads. The foam swords see a lot of action with arms (and faces, if we don't block it). And if we can get a good height match-up, we do one-steps where we block hammerfists to our heads. We /do/ learn self-defense,
Just a note - Yellow is the first up from white. I know some others have other colors inbetween that. I've only been in this class for barely 7 months, so someone else might be able to have a good debate with you about this :c

Are you practicing for self defense or sports performance?

If it's sports performance, then it's important to keep the rules of your chosen sport in mind.

If it's for self defense, you may want to consider the likelihood of being attacked by a "foam sword" on the street. You may also want to consider how you would defend yourself if you didn't "get a good height match-up."


-Rob

[dancingalone]

Maybe I'm wrong but don't like to brutaly beat a classmates cause we are all gentelmen and friends.


You can't really learn how to fight without overcoming some pain and mental adversity. It's a good teacher that knows exactly when to mete out some physical obstacles for his student to meet and surpass. A good teacher also knows when his student is 'shutting down' and backs off accordingly.

I used to be my sensei's senior student when I lived in the same city he did, and it was my job to toughen up my fellow students during kumite or even during drills. I did it well because I was sensitive enough to know the right amount of force to use. Now that I have my own school, I still have to be the sword's edge myself, since I don't have a student yet that I trust to be the enforcer.

[searcher]

you people with your no groin shots give me a giggle


The only reason I don't allow them is that some of the lower ranks have just enough control and power to potentially burst another student's testicle(have seen it happen and don't want to see it again).


As far as the no punching the head. Because it is to easy? Go try to hit a skilled fighter in the head with a hand. It is not that easy.

And no face contact, what is this dance practice? We have gotten so scared about the sue happy people that we have forgotten about the martial side of our training.


As of tonight, I will not allow any more panzies in my school. I am so sick of the whining that I cannot stand it anymore. If people want their kids to train and not get hit, they can go somewhere else. It is time for us to get old school and start the weeding out process.

[jarrod]

regarding groin strikes: we don't throw them in sparring because the defense for them is the same as a leg kick. if you can kick someone's inner thigh, you probably could have gotten them in the stones. plus i almost never wear a cup.

i used to train at a karate school that allowed groin shots but not leg kicks. why? how the hell is a low-level roundhouse more dangerous than a groin kick?

jf

[Twin Fist]

you can put a cup over your junk

you cant put a cup over your KNEE

big difference there Hoss

[karatemom]

I hate being hit in the head! (I need to block better) . Right now we are practicing tournament sparring (tournament in 2 wks) so no punches to the head but you can kick to the headgear in tournament sparring - unfortunately I've been kicked in the nose twice in the past 2 weeks by somebody trying to kick to my headgear (both were BB's) and I'm only 5'2". Tonight was knocked down by a 16 yr old. :uhohh: Just laughed it off and
he helped me up when I reached up for help....
I'm either getting old or slow or I've lost my sparring mojo post toe injury.

I spar the green belts differently (cause they are new to sparring - no contact) then I would higher ranks and sometimes it depends on the person - some people just want to trade combo's (kicks/punches/blocks) and others wanna go all out. Our rule is supposed to be light contact but not everybody adheres to that.

[jarrod]

you can put a cup over your junk

you cant put a cup over your KNEE

big difference there Hoss

oddly i've been hurt much worse wearing a cup than not. one of the fellers sneaks out, then BAM! pinched between me & the cup. i get naseous just thinking about it.

regarding leg kicks, you'd have to blast someone pretty hard to hurt their knee with a roundhouse. i'm not saying allow sidekicks to the knee during sparring, but i don't think roundhouses aimed at the thigh is very dangerous. well, no more than any other technique anyway.

jf

[clfsean]

We only have one rule: Don't break your sparring partner... i.e. common sense is the rule.

Contact level ultimately is up to you, but no pitty pat point tag.

[dancingalone]

regarding leg kicks, you'd have to blast someone pretty hard to hurt their knee with a roundhouse. i'm not saying allow sidekicks to the knee during sparring, but i don't think roundhouses aimed at the thigh is very dangerous. well, no more than any other technique anyway.
jf

It's very easy to miss the thigh or calf and connect with the knee instead in a live sparring situation where BOTH people are moving. Besides most (especially males) will instinctively shield their groin. The legs not so much. Fact is the leg kick is a fairly high percentage shot - I'm surprised more TKD people don't train it as a self-defense tactic given they are likely good kickers.

[Daniel Sullivan]

I'm only a yellow belt, and I've never actually sparred, but my instructor has told us enough times for us to know the general rules ^^;;

No punches to the head - because it's too easy :P Kicks only, and none to the face. Anywhere else is fine.
EVERYTHING above the belt.
"Sparring is like a game of tag", not full force knock-'em-down brawl.
Kicks to the back aren't allowed.

Then there's the rules everyone uses - guard up always, be sportsmanlike, apologize if you made a mistake :)
If your school is a KKW/WTF school, the reason for no punches to the head and spine are because they are forbid by the WTF sparring rules. It has nothing to do with punches to the head being too easy, though someone may have fed him that line to explain why the rule is such.

If he truly believes that sparring is like a game of tag, think very carefully before you continue at this school. If he doesn't believe that, but he's teaching his students that anyway, then get out quick, because in that scenario, he's willfully shortchanging his students and any training you receive is gong to be far bellow par.

If what you want out of class is a family oriented hobby, then this type of sparring is nice.

If you are expecting to develope any real athletic skill, be competative, or develop any level of self defense skills, then that instructor will not be able to get you there. Chances are, his instructor couldn't or didn't for him either. Not the place to spend your hard earned cash.

Daniel

[JadeDragon3]

you people with your no groin shots give me a giggle

I'm all for training for real fighting but my God you sound like your running a school for mercenary training. Kicks to the groin, hitting so hard so you can build your pain tolerance, training so hard so you won't have any "wusses", etc.... Training like this its a wonder you have any students. Sometimes you have to fight/sparr a little light so you can learn the technique and then oncwe you got the mechanics of it down then you can go harder and faster with it but to go as hard as your talking about it sounds like you aren't going to learn as well and get hurt a lot more. If your hurt and can't train then what good does that do you?

[CoryKS]

Partners agree upon amount of force used
No leg shots except in the kickboxing class
Groin shots allowed and strongly encouraged
Below brown, no head shots and all gear must be worn.
Brown and black can strike to the head unless sparring with below brown, and can remove any/all protective gear except mouthpiece and cup
No takedowns unless followed up with strike
safety, respect, control

The transition to brown belt is tricky because without head strikes you tend to get in the habit of keeping your guard low. On the other hand, you become very mindful of keeping it up after the first couple of shots. ;)

[Daniel Sullivan]

We spar WTF style, so certain decisions are already made for us.

Dos:
Kicks to the torso and head.
Kicks to the face too for adults (15+) dan-bo and above.
Punches to the body.
Kicking hard.
Wearing hogu.
Wearing cup.
Wearing mouthpiece.
Keep your guard high enough to guard against head shots and low enough to guard against body blows.

Don'ts:
Strikes below the belt.
Hand strikes of any kind to the neck/head/face area.
Pushing.
Sweeps and takedows.
Locks.
Grabs of any kind.
Hands at your sides unless you're Muhammad Ali good.

We have mixed classes (family class) where the kids are encouraged to go full contact and if they're sparring with an adult, the adult is told to keep the contact light. Blackbelts fifteen and older are considered adults for sparring purposes.

All students are encouraged to develope the technique to kick and punch hard, rather than relying on muscling through.

It is not the ideal from an SD perspective, though we do have SD training. When sparring WTF, we take it seriously and expect the students to fight as strongly as possible within the rule set. GM Kim emphasizes that this is most definitely not a game of tag, and will ride students who are not delivering a "trembling shock" with their strikes.

One last comment, unrelated to the topic. I'd love to train at Twin Fist's dojang, if only proximity were not an issue.:)

Daniel

[Twin Fist]

Jade, it isnt like "ok, this is your second class, put some gear on and get ready to bleed"......... in fact, i make my students wait till at least thier first belt, which in my school can be as long as 6 months.

I have had exactly TWO injuries. Lots of ouchies, only 2 injuries.

1-sprained ankle when someone backpeddled wrong
2-a small, and i mean like 1/4 inch cut on the bridge of thier nose. They walked into a kick.

I dont count the busted toe I got when I got sloppy about pulling my toes back. That was my own damn fault.

pain is common, injuries are not. My students learn to make pain thier friend, to enjoy pain. To feed off of it.

now having said that:
will you get kicked in the groin on the street?
thats why I train them to gaurd thier junk

will you get hit HARD on the street?
thats why they get hit hard in my school.

Will you get thrown down on the street?
thats why i throw them down, to see how they will handle it.

I do stuff to my students that most schools dont even think about till brown belt level.wusses need not apply at my school.

why?



The biggest advantage a trained martial artist has in the street is that we prob wont freeze when we get hit, since we ought to be used to getting hit. Take the average soft civilian, punch them in the face. They are most likely gonna FREEZE for a second, and in that second, the fight is lost. Possibly thier life as well.

not gonna happen

not to me, not to my students, not now, not ever.



I'm all for training for real fighting but my God you sound like your running a school for mercenary training. Kicks to the groin, hitting so hard so you can build your pain tolerance, training so hard so you won't have any "wusses", etc.... Training like this its a wonder you have any students. Sometimes you have to fight/sparr a little light so you can learn the technique and then oncwe you got the mechanics of it down then you can go harder and faster with it but to go as hard as your talking about it sounds like you aren't going to learn as well and get hurt a lot more. If your hurt and can't train then what good does that do you?

[Twin Fist]

Wearing hogu.

hogu's are for wussies.........



One last comment, unrelated to the topic. I'd love to train at Twin Fist's dojang, if only proximity were not an issue.:)

Daniel


ok you redeemed yourself. You sir, are extended a permanent invitation to my school.

[Daniel Sullivan]

hogu's are for wussies..........
I know.:(

But I play the hand I was dealt. We do non-hogu SD in hapkido, but I didn't bring that up, since in our taekwondo class, we do very little. I shopped around and most of the places around here that had taekwondo had that foam sword nonsense and like four levels of each of their twelve to fifteen belts, so since I already trained in kendo at the same place and knew that his class was a pretty tough class as KKW/WTF goes, I decided that I was better off wth him.

When I first signed up for the class, we did more realistic training. Once he offered the hapkido, he made the distinction that hapkido was his SD class and taekwondo was his sport/competition class. It works pretty well; students that can't handle ouchies or being twisted and thrown, and who just 'can't do breakfalls' stay away.

Make no mistake; he runs a very hard and very challenging taekwondo class. But nobody will mistake it for a hardcore class. Our hapkido classes are a lot rougher and believe it or not, we're pretty hardcore in kendo. The taekwondo students mouths hang open when they watch the kendo class warm up and drill. Our sparring scares them away, hehe.



ok you redeemed yourself. You sir, are extended a permanent invitation to my school.
YAYY!!!!! My thanks!!

Daniel

[Twin Fist]

I have seen some pretty rough hapkido practices, so I can believe that.

[Red Menace]

For those of you who spar without WTF-style rules or hogus, I have to say I'm curious how you avoid serious injury. When allowing punches to the face are they bare-knuckle or with a glove of some kind? Do students have black eyes all the time? Noses aren't getting broken? I know that it isn't easy to punch a trained fighter in the head but it's got to happen with some frequency. Ribs don't get cracked by kicks? Never?

We do WTF sparring at my school, and do not view it as a game of tag, but we acknowledge that it is a game with rules. I often think I might like to engage in more realistic fighting of some kind, and perhaps I'm a "wussie", but I'm not sure how it would work without me or my partner getting a serious beatdown, and hobbling into work the next day. Please enlighten me, and if there is any video of the students at your school sparring (in a full contact way) that you could share, please do.

[Empty Hands]

For those of you who spar without WTF-style rules or hogus, I have to say I'm curious how you avoid serious injury.

Learning control is an important part of martial arts, as important as learning to unleash yourself full-force. The only serious injuries we have had were from chronically uncontrolled students, who are asked to leave if they don't change their behavior.

[Twin Fist]

injury?

ok, show me a Black Belt that never bled.........

Daniel? you make it to BB without bleeding?

terry?

anyone?

there is a reason why there didnt used to be kiddy classes

this isnt t-ball, this is KARATE

it is a contact sport, and if you suck, you run the risk of getting hurt.

suck it up or go learn ballet.

in 25 years:
I had my arm pulled out of socket
I have had more bloody noses than I can remember
busted lips
dislocated knuckles
hyper-extended elbow
buddy of mine got his sternum cracked from a side kick
almost everyone I know has had a rib get at least cracked.

it doesnt happen often, but it DOES and SHOULD happen. If you get to BB and you never bled? you need to re-take your test.

Red Menace, this is gonna come as a shock to you i am sure, but it is actually HARD to injure someone, those flippy little WTF kicks? they dont have much power on them.

lose the hogu, no one will die i promise.

[Thesemindz]

For those of you who spar without WTF-style rules or hogus, I have to say I'm curious how you avoid serious injury. When allowing punches to the face are they bare-knuckle or with a glove of some kind? Do students have black eyes all the time? Noses aren't getting broken? I know that it isn't easy to punch a trained fighter in the head but it's got to happen with some frequency. Ribs don't get cracked by kicks? Never?

We do WTF sparring at my school, and do not view it as a game of tag, but we acknowledge that it is a game with rules. I often think I might like to engage in more realistic fighting of some kind, and perhaps I'm a "wussie", but I'm not sure how it would work without me or my partner getting a serious beatdown, and hobbling into work the next day. Please enlighten me, and if there is any video of the students at your school sparring (in a full contact way) that you could share, please do.


I spar with my other black belt friends, bare knuckle, no mouth guard, groin guard only. We spar street style, including strikes to vulnerable targets, takedows, groin shots, leg kicks, strikes to the head, ground figting, throws, and joint locks.

And we don't usually get seriously injured. It's called control. Every once in a while someone will get knocked woozy, but usually we just use control to vulnerable targets, such as the face, groin, knees, kidneys, etc. Shots to the body are medium to heavy.

You can train hard, and realistically, with heavy contact and little protective gear, and not get hurt all the time. But it takes a lot of training, and a lot of control. It isn't for white belts. And it isn't for people who don't practice, and aren't used to, and don't know how to defend against, these kinds of attacks.


-Rob

[Thesemindz]

this is gonna come as a shock to you i am sure, but it is actually HARD to injure someone.

This is true. People get hurt sometimes on accident, but the human body is surprisingly resiliant.

We had one female student who was getting hurt a lot, so the instructor recommended she see a doctor and it turned out she had a bone condition. Everyone else was able to go pretty hard with little more than bruises, jammed fingers, and the occasional muscle pull.

If you use control, and you train for contact, you can go at a pretty good clip without getting hurt. Look at how much damage the fighters in the UFC can take without even slowing down.

It's all in how you train.


-Rob

[searcher]

injury?

ok, show me a Black Belt that never bled.........

Daniel? you make it to BB without bleeding?

terry?

anyone?

there is a reason why there didnt used to be kiddy classes

this isnt t-ball, this is KARATE

it is a contact sport, and if you suck, you run the risk of getting hurt.

suck it up or go learn ballet.

in 25 years:
I had my arm pulled out of socket
I have had more bloody noses than I can remember
busted lips
dislocated knuckles
hyper-extended elbow
buddy of mine got his sternum cracked from a side kick
almost everyone I know has had a rib get at least cracked.

it doesnt happen often, but it DOES and SHOULD happen. If you get to BB and you never bled? you need to re-take your test.

Red Menace, this is gonna come as a shock to you i am sure, but it is actually HARD to injure someone, those flippy little WTF kicks? they dont have much power on them.

lose the hogu, no one will die i promise.



I will throw one out there for you. During my Sho-dan test, I had a shattered nose and there was blood everywhere. Adults are not allowed to wear chest pretection and if they get broken ribs, so be it. I have seen many broken bones, dislocations, concussions, etc in the course of an individual coming up through the ranks. It happens, as has been stated.


Some of you guys may know a Jim Harrison. He heavily influenced one of my instructors and his opinion on the subject is, No Paper Tigers!!!! Meaning if you get a BB and you have not gotten the crap kicked out of you and done likewise to another, you are attending a dance school.

[Twin Fist]

Jim harrison is a monster. Back in the day, he was widely considered the hardest hitting guy in karate.

[terryl965]

injury?

ok, show me a Black Belt that never bled.........

Daniel? you make it to BB without bleeding?

terry?

anyone?

there is a reason why there didnt used to be kiddy classes

this isnt t-ball, this is KARATE

it is a contact sport, and if you suck, you run the risk of getting hurt.

suck it up or go learn ballet.

in 25 years:
I had my arm pulled out of socket
I have had more bloody noses than I can remember
busted lips
dislocated knuckles
hyper-extended elbow
buddy of mine got his sternum cracked from a side kick
almost everyone I know has had a rib get at least cracked.

it doesnt happen often, but it DOES and SHOULD happen. If you get to BB and you never bled? you need to re-take your test.

Red Menace, this is gonna come as a shock to you i am sure, but it is actually HARD to injure someone, those flippy little WTF kicks? they dont have much power on them.

lose the hogu, no one will die i promise.


Bleed please I bleed and also broke bones that is just part of training. I mean come on people back in the days I had black eye and never gave it a second thought. I also agree about learning control when sparring but sometime it just feels good to let out some godd old fashion ass whooping for the love of god.http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[jim777]

Our rules are straight forward and few:

No contact is to be made to the Back, Back of the Head, Neck or anywhere below the waist

Students will stop immediately upon the command "Break" given by the instructor
No techniques will be delivered to the joints, especially below the waist.
Students must bow at the beginning and end of each match to show respect to their opponent
Students will shake hands with their opponent and compliment them with the reply "good match" at the end of every match
Senior students will spar to the level of the junior student

[Red Menace]

injury?

ok, show me a Black Belt that never bled.........

Daniel? you make it to BB without bleeding?

terry?

anyone?

there is a reason why there didnt used to be kiddy classes

this isnt t-ball, this is KARATE

it is a contact sport, and if you suck, you run the risk of getting hurt.

suck it up or go learn ballet.

in 25 years:
I had my arm pulled out of socket
I have had more bloody noses than I can remember
busted lips
dislocated knuckles
hyper-extended elbow
buddy of mine got his sternum cracked from a side kick
almost everyone I know has had a rib get at least cracked.

it doesnt happen often, but it DOES and SHOULD happen. If you get to BB and you never bled? you need to re-take your test.

Red Menace, this is gonna come as a shock to you i am sure, but it is actually HARD to injure someone, those flippy little WTF kicks? they dont have much power on them.

lose the hogu, no one will die i promise.

Twin Fist, I appreciate you responding to my question but I kind of feel like you are insulting me. I wasn't criticizing your style of training, I was asking a sincere question. I apologize if you took my questions as some kind of antagonism. I have a black belt and I also have been injured many times (not just bleeding, but breaks and a concussion) but that's also part of what made me ask for more info. We train in self-defense as well as WTF sparring, but we don't really do full-contact-anything-goes sparing per se. From Empty Hands and TheseMindz's posts it seems like control is often being used, so the participants are not "going all out" against each other.

At your school do black belts "go all out" against each other on a regular basis, Twin Fist? Or is some level of holding back the norm?

I'm not saying this would be the case at anyone's school who has posted here, but I know one of my instructors traveled to some schools where they routinely spar without hogus and he obliterated everyone there because conscious of it or not, they were actually holding back the full force of their kicks and punches when they trained, whereas we kick as hard as possible much of the time. I just thought I'd add that anectdote as a possible defense of using the chest protector.

[Twin Fist]

Red, i wasnt referring to you in particular, except for the part where i was.

"Red Menace, this is gonna come as a shock to you i am sure, but it is actually HARD to injure someone, those flippy little WTF kicks? they dont have much power on them.

lose the hogu, no one will die i promise."

that was to you, the rest was directed to all the wimped out,wussified,no contact, no one gets hurt, everyone passes tests, 9 yr old BB's strip mall belt factories out there.

now, that being said:

It is a well known fact that i dont think highly of WTF style tkd.

nothing will change my mind on that. Hogu's are for wusses as far as I am concerned. Will you have one on the street? then you better not wear one when you train. I often fight without a cup. I NEVER fight with a mouth piece or headgear. My students have to wear it, but I wont.

That said, I am not trying to diss you, so no worries.

now, for me, when sparring another Black belt, he or she had better bring it, cuz I am. maybe not 100%, but close to it. I show my respect for thier belt by bringing them a good fight. They had better do the same, or they will get wacked around me.

[Daniel Sullivan]

For those of you who spar without WTF-style rules or hogus, I have to say I'm curious how you avoid serious injury. When allowing punches to the face are they bare-knuckle or with a glove of some kind? Do students have black eyes all the time? Noses aren't getting broken? I know that it isn't easy to punch a trained fighter in the head but it's got to happen with some frequency. Ribs don't get cracked by kicks? Never?

We do WTF sparring at my school, and do not view it as a game of tag, but we acknowledge that it is a game with rules. I often think I might like to engage in more realistic fighting of some kind, and perhaps I'm a "wussie", but I'm not sure how it would work without me or my partner getting a serious beatdown, and hobbling into work the next day. Please enlighten me, and if there is any video of the students at your school sparring (in a full contact way) that you could share, please do.

Injuries happen. Even with hogu. One student at our school sat our most of January with a broken wrist from trying to block a kick and catching it with his wrist and not his forearm. This is with hogu and arm pads.

When I trained in the days before hogu, we got a serious beatdown and went hobbling into work the next day. It was the nature of the beast. Still is at hardcore schools.

Daniel

[Daniel Sullivan]

injury?

ok, show me a Black Belt that never bled.........

Daniel? you make it to BB without bleeding?


I definitely bled over the years.

I've had cracked ribs, a couple of broken toes, jammed fingers, bruises that didn't go away for weeks, more cuts over the years than I can add up, and pulled muscles. I have a permanent dip in each of my shins from being blocked on two separate occasions by someone's elbow (the shins happened at my current school, and it was through the pads), and my knuckles are starting to look weird.

And that's just taekwondo.

Throw in the kendo: lots of bruises, the beginnings of a pernanent knot on my right wrist from years of being motodachi, long welts on my neck from tsuki's that missed the mark and rode up under the men, and my feet are a callous.

Some side effects from that kind of training.

Whenever I block, my padded up opponents get ouchies. I've been told that my shins are like a pair of steel rods (I don't think so, but that is how my classmates feel). I have been told that my blocks "hurt too much. When I perform the stomping strikes in kendo, it resonates through the building like a gunshot. Needless to say, my back kicks and side kicks benefit from the kind of toughening that the bottoms of one's feet receive in kendo.

Are there black belts that have never bled?

Come on TF; you know the answer to that. There are tons of them. Pay the fee, get the belt and certificate.

The sad truth.

Daniel