What style name would I use?

[TheArtofDave]

Since its getting close to time for me to graduate I'm going to get back into martial arts since I actually have a dependable car again. I'm going to take shotokan again and train in the mornings on tuesday and thursdays while in school. And then on Saturday I'm going back to the korean style Pasaryu and learn it if they have a noon class.

So I'm going to cross train and blend the styles. Now my question is if I wanted to teach the blended styles of both shotokan, and pasaryu what would I call it? I know a lot of work would go into what to keep, and what to leave out as far as what is contained in each.

Any help is appreciated.

[tellner]

You're putting the cart before the horse. First develop some skill. Then figure out how you're going to balance your training. Then integrate it. Then decide if your ego demands that you give it a name.

[searcher]

You're putting the cart before the horse. First develop some skill. Then figure out how you're going to balance your training. Then integrate it. Then decide if your ego demands that you give it a name.


:-partyon:

[seasoned]

You're putting the cart before the horse. First develop some skill. Then figure out how you're going to balance your training. Then integrate it. Then decide if your ego demands that you give it a name.

And this is why you go by Tellner, because you Tellner it like it is. :)

[terryl965]

Most people train for twenty- thirty year before jumping into there own art what makes you so special?

[arnisador]

So I'm going to cross train and blend the styles.

How do you know you'll need to?

Patience, grasshopper!

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Good advice from Tellner.

But lets say you don't listen to him.

Please don't add up made up words.

Please do not use another culture's words unless you know exactly what you are using.

Be prepared to face harsh criticism.

That is what I have learned from watching people create their own styles.

[David Weatherly]

Don't worry or even think about teaching at this point. Focus only on your training, self improvement and getting all you can from your chosen arts.

[tellner]

How about "San Baka Ryu"

[Thesemindz]

Since its getting close to time for me to graduate I'm going to get back into martial arts since I actually have a dependable car again. I'm going to take shotokan again and train in the mornings on tuesday and thursdays while in school. And then on Saturday I'm going back to the korean style Pasaryu and learn it if they have a noon class.

So I'm going to cross train and blend the styles. Now my question is if I wanted to teach the blended styles of both shotokan, and pasaryu what would I call it? I know a lot of work would go into what to keep, and what to leave out as far as what is contained in each.

Any help is appreciated.

Ignore these guys, they're just jealous because they don't have your experience and insight.

I think you should call it Pasakan. It keeps everything of value from your years of training, and throws away everything you don't need, which I'm assuming is your goal for your art. That way people will know right from the get where you are coming from.

You could call it Shotoryu, but that just sounds ridiculous, and you don't want people to get the wrong idea.


-Rob

[Sylo]

I would say, call it martial arts training and don't bother with trying be the next Bruce Lee

[Marginal]

Dave-Kun-Do
Dave-Chan-Do
Okama-Do
Skoshi-Hito-Ryu

[jarrod]

newbie-do

[Ironcrane]

Don't really need to worry about coming up with a new name. Sticking with calling it, Shotokan, and Pasaryu, should be sufficient.

[Thesemindz]

Don't really need to worry about coming up with a new name. Sticking with calling it, Shotokan, and Pasaryu, should be sufficient.


You guys just don't get it.

Somebody else already called their art Shotokan and Pasaryu. Do you think they made it up on the spot? They were just ripping off what someone else had already taught them and calling it their own work.

At least this guy is going to get rid of all the dead weight. He's doing a service to the martial arts community. He deserves to give what he's doing a new name.

I've been thinking about this, and I think I was wrong before. Don't call it Pasakan.

You should call it Patosaryu.

-Rob

[myusername]

What is wrong with calling it The Art of Dave? :) Don't worry about everyone taking the mickey, if this is your long term goal go for it. Put the time in and work towards it, remembering that your long term goals may change. What ever you do though if you do come through the other end and start this thing don't really call it the Art of Dave!

[Sylo]

I'm pretty sure more went into the naming of Shotokan, than someone coming to an internet forum and asking others what they thought it should be called.

[myusername]

I'm pretty sure more went into the naming of Shotokan, than someone coming to an internet forum and asking others what they thought it should be called.

How can you be so sure? I am not a shotokan guy but my understanding (informed by a super quick google search) is that Shoto was just Funakoshi's pen name (something about pine needles in the wind) and kan means building. So if we are to assume that Dave is the next Funakoshi and we are expecting the same level of creativity in the naming of their art he should call his style "The Art of Dave is within this Building"

Perhaps if the internet was around in Funakoshi's time he might have seen something on Wikipedia or on one of his mates Facebook status's that would have inspired a more interesting name for Shotokan. Who knows he might have even been a regular contributor on martial talk and instead of inventing his style became too pre-occupied with arguing whether it is true that all fights go to the ground or became too distracted playing blackjack in the casino section.

[clfsean]

the korean style Pasaryu

When did "ryu" become Korean?

Anybody?

[dancingalone]

When did "ryu" become Korean?

It's not, but it is common for Koreans alive during the Japanese occupation to continue to use the terminology they learned then. Possibly 'pasaryu' is the result of such a union.

[arnisador]

Somebody else already called their art Shotokan and Pasaryu. Do you think they made it up on the spot? They were just ripping off what someone else had already taught them and calling it their own work.


I don't know anything about Pasaryu, but this is a very inaccurate description of how the style and name Shotokan evolved. From the Wikipedia entry: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotokan)


In honour of their sensei, Funakoshi's students created a sign reading shōtō-kan which was placed above the entrance of the hall where Funakoshi taught. Gichin Funakoshi never gave his style a name, just calling it "karate".



Gichin Funakoshi had trained in both of the popular styles of Okinawan karate of the time: Shorei-ryu and Shorin-ryu. After years of study in both styles, Funakoshi created a simpler style that combined the ideals of the two.[4] He never named his style, however, always referring to it simply as "karate." Funakoshi's karate reflects the changes made in the art by Ankō Itosu, including the Heian/Pinan kata series. Funakoshi changed the names of the kata in an effort to make the "foreign" Okinawan names more palatable to the then-nationalistic Japanese mainland.

[Himura Kenshin]

newbie-do

To be fair, unless you know this person outside of the forum I'll bet you don't know the extent of his training. He could have trained without earning rank for years. Unlikely as that is, it is possible.

I would recomend calling your style whatever the base art you build it off is called. So if your mostly shotokan, call it shotokan, but tell people that you are mixing in other elements as well and your style is not "pure" shotokan or pasaryu or whatever.

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Kenshin hit on something that is important.

If you are going to create your own style be honest about it.

Do not make up some strange bogus history.

You may get by on something as Okami Goshinjutsu(meaning Wolf self defense) Better hurry I might just copy right that one!!

[Sandstorm]

I wouldn't worry too much about a name. Just train and enjoy your progress. Thinking about starting a new 'style' is not really beneficial to yourself or anyone else IMO. As others have said, use the primary art as the advertising and be honest about the amalgamation within. You could just go down the 'Way of the Open Mind' or '12 Gates Martail Arts Club' or some such, but Mr Lee didn't name his project an 'art', it was a 'concept', and I think that is an important aspect in this whole ideal.

Good luck with your training and I hope whatever you decide to do, it works out for you.:)

Kind regards

John

[Daniel Sullivan]

It's not, but it is common for Koreans alive during the Japanese occupation to continue to use the terminology they learned then. Possibly 'pasaryu' is the result of such a union.
It appears to be a creation of Kang Rhee. His site describes it as a synthesis of karate, (some style of) kung fu, and tang soo do. Here's the link.
http://www.kangrhee.com/pasaryu.html (http://www.kangrhee.com/pasaryu.html)

I'm not sure what he would have taken from Taekwondo. It indicates a date of 1964 when he came up with this, so 'taekwondo' at that time would have still been pretty much shotokan, maybe with different forms(?) and Korean terminology, but more than likely would have been Tang Soo Do, which is, from what I have seen and read, pretty much Shotokan with Korean terminology, particularly at that time.

I'm no TSD authority, so if I've mischaracterized something regarding TSD, I do apologize.

Honestly, I'm very leary of anything claiming to combine a specific art with 'Kung fu'. Its like saying you're combining Taekwondo with martial arts. This description is definitely geared to the ignorant with regards to martial arts.

You guys just don't get it.
At least this guy is going to get rid of all the dead weight. He's doing a service to the martial arts community. He deserves to give what he's doing a new name.

Unless you're communicating with him outside of this thread, there isn't any indication that he is going to get rid of dead weight, but rather keep what he likes and what he doesn't. And someone's arbitrary dislike of something doesn't always make it dead weight.

Unfortunately, just reading the post, there is no indication that he has any background or qualifications to attempt this. It looks like he has a car, wants to go to two cool places, learn what they've got and mix the two, but hasn't taken a single class and wants to name a new art.

For all you know, he may inadvertantly end up keeping all the dead weight and get rid of the teeth of both systems. Plenty of people come up with "new" arts, bestow rank upon themselves, and when the fruit of their labor is tested, it winds up being just a watered down and/or cluttered up version of something else.

Hey, maybe he really wants to streamline, but you really need to know your stuff before you start taking existing arts and monkeying with them, particularly when one of the arts in question is already a concotion of three arts. Given that he says he's getting ready to graduate (presumably high school or college) it seems unlikely that he has the background for this.

Which brings me to Dave....


Since its getting close to time for me to graduate I'm going to get back into martial arts since I actually have a dependable car again. I'm going to take shotokan again and train in the mornings on tuesday and thursdays while in school. And then on Saturday I'm going back to the korean style Pasaryu and learn it if they have a noon class.

So I'm going to cross train and blend the styles. Now my question is if I wanted to teach the blended styles of both shotokan, and pasaryu what would I call it? I know a lot of work would go into what to keep, and what to leave out as far as what is contained in each.

Any help is appreciated.

Dave, here are a few questions for you:

Have you had any training in either of these arts? And if not, what is your base art?

Why do you want to combine the two? Aside from taekgeuks and very stylized sparring, and a few flashy kicks,modern taekwondo contributes absolutely nothing in terms of substantive content to Shotokan. It would make more sense to blend a style of Kung Fu with Shotokan and bypass someone else's hybrid altogether.

Regarding name, Shotokan simply means 'Hall of Shoto', Shoto being Funakoshi's pen name. It is logical to assume that shotokan Ryu is the base style, which is would almost have to be, since Pasaryu (Way of honor is what the site says, though I've never heard 'ryu' translated as way) already contains Shotokan.

In a Japanese context, the correct way would be to call it 'Dave-ha-Shotokan-ryu', as it sounds like you'll still be doing essentially Shotokan.

Or you could just call it Dave-kwon-do.

Daniel

[Daniel Sullivan]

How can you be so sure? I am not a shotokan guy but my understanding (informed by a super quick google search) is that Shoto was just Funakoshi's pen name (something about pine needles in the wind) and kan means building. So if we are to assume that Dave is the next Funakoshi and we are expecting the same level of creativity in the naming of their art he should call his style "The Art of Dave is within this Building"

Perhaps if the internet was around in Funakoshi's time he might have seen something on Wikipedia or on one of his mates Facebook status's that would have inspired a more interesting name for Shotokan. Who knows he might have even been a regular contributor on martial talk and instead of inventing his style became too pre-occupied with arguing whether it is true that all fights go to the ground or became too distracted playing blackjack in the casino section.
Funokashi never named the art so far as I know. He taught a synthesis of Shorin ryu and Shorei ryu, but just called his art, 'Karate' with no specific name. Probably his most radical change was the Japanizing of karate by adopting the Kyu/Dan system, complete with its belts and the keikogi. He did whatever one did at that time to be 'officially' recognized by the Japanese government.

Daniel

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

A wise man once said "There are no new punches under the sun."

Are you really creating a new art or just giving existing arts a new name?

More importantly, are you really thinking of advertising this art, or making it more of a personal one that you and you alone will practice? For example, I study taijutsu and have been for several years. If you watch me in a fight, you'll see that I move differently and use different techniques than my fellow students, or even my teacher. Does this mean that I'm using a different art entirely, or using the existing art in a way that benefits me? The thing about martial arts, and the reason there's so many different styles, is because there are so many different people out there, with different body compositions, personalities, and intents in a fight. You need to think, is your style really going to be marketable, or something only you and people like you can use?

[Nomad]

Is Rex-Kwon-Do already taken? ;)

[searcher]

(Your town name here) School of Martial Arts.

[myusername]

I'd say it's blue sky thinking! There is nothing wrong with having a long term goal that is percieved by others to be "out there" as the actual process of trying to attain it can open a person up to many positive beneficial experiences.

For example if I were to suddenly announce at the age of 29 that I wanted to become an astronaut people might quite rightly scoff. But if I were serious I would then look at what I needed to become an astronaut. I imagine I would have to redo some of my education as I did quite poorly at maths!, I imagine I would then have to go to university and study sciences or engineering, I imagine I might need to take up flying lessons, I imagine I might have to ensure I maintain a high level of fitness.

At any point in this journey I may very well realise that I am never going to actually become an astronaut! But if I had done any of those things to try and achieve that goal I would have gained something and be better for it, even if it is just having a better grade in maths and increased fitness.

People go in to martial arts for all sorts of reasons and people have their own personal long term goals. Some want fitness, some want self defence, some want sport, some want all three. Part of Dave's motivation is to be the creator of his own hybrid art. If after studying for years in Shotokan Dave changes his goal he still would have the benefit of studying for years in Shotokan. Alternatively Dave might actually still merge the two arts together based on a more sound understanding. Who knows? but I personally don't see anything wrong with a little bit of blue sky thinking! :)

[Sylo]

I'd say it's blue sky thinking! There is nothing wrong with having a long term goal that is percieved by others to be "out there" as the actual process of trying to attain it can open a person up to many positive beneficial experiences.

For example if I were to suddenly announce at the age of 29 that I wanted to become an astronaut people might quite rightly scoff. But if I were serious I would then look at what I needed to become an astronaut. I imagine I would have to redo some of my education as I did quite poorly at maths!, I imagine I would then have to go to university and study sciences or engineering, I imagine I might need to take up flying lessons, I imagine I might have to ensure I maintain a high level of fitness.

At any point in this journey I may very well realise that I am never going to actually become an astronaut! But if I had done any of those things to try and achieve that goal I would have gained something and be better for it, even if it is just having a better grade in maths and increased fitness.

People go in to martial arts for all sorts of reasons and people have their own personal long term goals. Some want fitness, some want self defence, some want sport, some want all three. Part of Dave's motivation is to be the creator of his own hybrid art. If after studying for years in Shotokan Dave changes his goal he still would have the benefit of studying for years in Shotokan. Alternatively Dave might actually still merge the two arts together based on a more sound understanding. Who knows? but I personally don't see anything wrong with a little bit of blue sky thinking! :)

Yeah, I agree with this thinking. But on the same token, this is an internet forum. Many of us have never met nor seen in person many of the people who post here. We don't know their backgrounds in anything. What I think most people are looking for from Dave is some indication of his background in martial arts. Something like what he is planning on undertaking, is not impossible but highly irregular for someone who "seemingly" looks to be just getting his feet wet in martial arts in general.. just judging by his posts.

I'm all about dreaming big. I want to open a school in the next couple of years, and I'm only a lowly red belt. So its BIG undertaking to even be thinking about right now. However, what I haven't done is "put the cart before the horse". I have the idea, but I haven't acted on it yet. Instead I'm researching on my own to devise the "how" "when" and "where" and "why" factors.

It would be like me coming here and saying "Hey guys, I'm opening my own school what should I name it?". First off, noone but you can decide that. Two, I'm just red belt.. so why would I be thinking about opening a school? I don't even know if I have the ability to teach yet.

Simply put, most people can't read between the lines on a message board. They reply to what has been asked. Dave wants to know what he should name a style that he will be creating out of 2 arts he (according to the way he has written his post) has no experience in.

I think he's getting honest and respectable answers considering the question and how it was asked. Come back in about 10 years, and I think he will get a different answer. Granted he has the knowledge and background in said arts to be able to provide information.

[dancingalone]

Just my opinion, but if one is ready to "create" a martial art, then one likely would know himself what best to call his art, instead of seeking guidance from the unwashed masses on the Internet.

[Daniel Sullivan]

I may be many things, but unwashed is most defintely not one of them, I'll have you know! I even wash and press my uniforms after each and every class!:p

Daniel

[dancingalone]

You press your uniforms? I just let my white uniforms sundry on some of the wooden railings on my deck. The sunlight and heat seem to take most of the wrinkles out.:)

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yes, I actually press my uniforms. My dobok/gi sleeves and pant legs have a sharp crease in the center.

Daniel

[dancingalone]

Yes, I actually press my uniforms. My dobok/gi sleeves and pant legs have a sharp crease in the center.
Daniel

Cool. I bet you look sharp in class. I'm afraid my teacher would clout me on the head with a tonfa if I ironed my uniform. "Gi for practice not impress girls" (said with a heavy Asian accent as he frowns at me from his lofty height of 5'3'').

:angel:

[Himura Kenshin]

A wise man once said "There are no new punches under the sun."

Are you really creating a new art or just giving existing arts a new name?



And there in lies what I believe to be what most "founders" tend to do in the modern age. I think the only way one can create a new martial art is simply by blending concepts of martial arts together that have previously not been combined (to the knowlege of the new "founder" of course)

This is kind of how Mr. Maienza of the Jizaikan "created" aiki ninjutsu. He took the power and unconventional thinking of the takamatsu teachings, and combined them with the adaptability and harmonious movements of the aiki jujutsu schools. He didn't "create" the techniques, kata, principles, secrets, and any of the actual methods. The art was "created" through his teaching methods that bind them all together in a way that in my opinion had not been done before.

[Daniel Sullivan]

Cool. I bet you look sharp in class. I'm afraid my teacher would clout me on the head with a tonfa if I ironed my uniform. "Gi for practice not impress girls" (said with a heavy Asian accent as he frowns at me from his lofty height of 5'3'').

:angel:
Ladies go crazy bout a sharp dressed man:p

Daniel

[terryl965]

Anybody notice the op has never came back to answer any questions.

[Daniel Sullivan]

Anybody notice the op has never came back to answer any questions.
Nor the other guy who said that the OP was doing the MA world a service by dumping the dead weight.

Daniel

[Thesemindz]

Nor the other guy who said that the OP was doing the MA world a service by dumping the dead weight.

Daniel

I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean me.

Go back and read my posts and think about the word "sarcasm."

Do you really think I was encouraging him to call his art Pass-A-Can?

There are only two ways to deal with trolls. Feed them, or don't feed them.

I find one way more gratifying than the other.


-Rob