Best home study course Dvd's American kenpo

[kempo]

I am looking for your recomendation on the best home study course (Dvd's )on Ed Parkers American Kenpo system. I currently train 2 times a wk in Shaolin Kempo and because there are no American Kenpo schools in my area I am forced to learn it on my own. I do have a brown belt in Shaolin kempo so I am very familliar with this kempo and enjoy it very much but at the same time I am very interested in learing Ed Parkers Kenpo system.

Thank you

Chris

[stickarts]

Huk Planas, Larry Tatum, and Lee Wedlake all have DVD's available. (I am sure there are many more, those are just the ones I am extremely familiar with and have gotten ideas from)
I recommend at least attending some of their seminars if you don't have a regular school to train at for the american kenpo. Getting instruction from a teacher will make a huge difference in the quality of your learning. If you don't mind my asking, what State do you live in?

[kempo]

Huk Planas, Larry Tatum, and Lee Wedlake all have DVD's available. (I am sure there are many more, those are just the ones I am extremely familiar with and have gotten ideas from)
I recommend at least attending some of their seminars if you don't have a regular school to train at for the american kenpo. Getting instruction from a teacher will make a huge difference in the quality of your learning. If you don't mind my asking, what State do you live in?

Thanks for the advice. I will check out those videos. I actually live in the state of Maine.

[MJS]

I am looking for your recomendation on the best home study course (Dvd's )on Ed Parkers American Kenpo system. I currently train 2 times a wk in Shaolin Kempo and because there are no American Kenpo schools in my area I am forced to learn it on my own. I do have a brown belt in Shaolin kempo so I am very familliar with this kempo and enjoy it very much but at the same time I am very interested in learing Ed Parkers Kenpo system.

Thank you

Chris

I can only echo what stickarts has already said. Live instruction is much better. Not sure how far you are from these places, but you may consider the following:

http://www.pacifickenpo.com/Schools/United-States/Maine/Tony-Cogliandros-Kenpo-Karate.htm

http://www.kenponet.com/studionet/us/maine/me_orland.html

http://www.akikenpo.com/schools.html

http://www.alemanykenpokarate.com/schools.html

Thats a start. Even if it required having to drive a distance, if it meant learning from an actual teacher, its worth it IMO. Additionally, I can't vouch for how accurate the above links are. I simply did a search of "Kenpo schools in Maine" and those are some of the links I pulled up.

Good luck in your training. :)

Mike

[kempo]

I can only echo what stickarts has already said. Live instruction is much better. Not sure how far you are from these places, but you may consider the following:

http://www.pacifickenpo.com/Schools/United-States/Maine/Tony-Cogliandros-Kenpo-Karate.htm

http://www.kenponet.com/studionet/us/maine/me_orland.html

http://www.akikenpo.com/schools.html

http://www.alemanykenpokarate.com/schools.html

Thats a start. Even if it required having to drive a distance, if it meant learning from an actual teacher, its worth it IMO. Additionally, I can't vouch for how accurate the above links are. I simply did a search of "Kenpo schools in Maine" and those are some of the links I pulled up.

Good luck in your training. :)

Mike
Thanks Mike for your response, I will check these sites out. As far as training with an instructor, I am all for that which I so 2 times a wk in the Shaolin Kempo art, but this may be the only way to gain some knowlege in the American kenpo art of Ed Parker which I believe is one great fighting art.

Chris

[JTKenpo]

Thanks Mike for your response, I will check these sites out. As far as training with an instructor, I am all for that which I so 2 times a wk in the Shaolin Kempo art, but this may be the only way to gain some knowlege in the American kenpo art of Ed Parker which I believe is one great fighting art.

Chris

I believe Tony Cogliandro is in maine. There probably is a few instructors in your area, but they may not be main stream big dojo with sign on the building in neon purple. Check all the boards as was suggested and ask around. You may be surprised with what you find.

[stickarts]

Thanks for the advice. I will check out those videos. I actually live in the state of Maine.

There are periodic seminars in NH by Prof. Wedlake if you ever get the chance to make them. It would be worth the drive. :)

[Flying Crane]

I have not seen any of the videos suggested so I cannot comment on them specifically. However, I will never ever recommend that you try and learn any art thru video. It's simply not a good idea.

If you are getting good training in Shaolin Kempo, stick with that. Maybe someday circumstances will change and you will find the opportunity to train with a good AK teacher. But until that opportunity arises, don't try to force it thru video instruction. It's almost guaranteed to give you poor results, regardless of the quality of the videos, simply because the arts cannot be effectively transmitted in that way, devoid of quality time spent with a good instructor.

[RevIV]

I am looking for your recomendation on the best home study course (Dvd's )on Ed Parkers American Kenpo system. I currently train 2 times a wk in Shaolin Kempo and because there are no American Kenpo schools in my area I am forced to learn it on my own. I do have a brown belt in Shaolin kempo so I am very familliar with this kempo and enjoy it very much but at the same time I am very interested in learing Ed Parkers Kenpo system.

Thank you

Chris

I would say get your black belt in SKK first. You are at brown belt level, do not let other things mess with that routine. after black belt start experimenting elsewhere with your teachers consent. A good teacher will be excited that you want to expand your resources. There are some good teachers up your way it all depends on how far you want to drive or spend.

[kempo]

I have not seen any of the videos suggested so I cannot comment on them specifically. However, I will never ever recommend that you try and learn any art thru video. It's simply not a good idea.

If you are getting good training in Shaolin Kempo, stick with that. Maybe someday circumstances will change and you will find the opportunity to train with a good AK teacher. But until that opportunity arises, don't try to force it thru video instruction. It's almost guaranteed to give you poor results, regardless of the quality of the videos, simply because the arts cannot be effectively transmitted in that way, devoid of quality time spent with a good instructor.
Well my plan is to stay with shaolin kempo and learn the american kenpo system on my own with video training and a monthly visit to Tony Cogliandro's school in Souther Maine.

[JTKenpo]

Well my plan is to stay with shaolin kempo and learn the american kenpo system on my own with video training and a monthly visit to Tony Cogliandro's school in Souther Maine.


Then I would ask Mr. Cogliandro what he recomends to suppliment your AK training.

[celtic_crippler]

Huk Planas for the forms....

Larry Tatum for the tech's...

[Flying Crane]

Well my plan is to stay with shaolin kempo and learn the american kenpo system on my own with video training and a monthly visit to Tony Cogliandro's school in Souther Maine.

I don't know anything about Mr. Cogliandro, but I am willing to assume that he is a good teacher.

If you pursue this, I would suggest you focus your AK training on what you do with Mr. Cogliandro, and disregard any videos.

My lineage in kenpo is Tracys, and I cannot comment on other lineages of kenpo. However, what seems apparent to me is that there is plenty of disagreement from one lineage to another, on how things are to be done. This isn't a Tracy vs. EPAK thing, but rather every single lineage that sprung from Mr. Parker, whether it's Planas, Wedlake, Chapel, White, Tatum, or any other. Largely from the discussions I've seen here and over on Kenpotalk, this has become rather clear to me. Mr. Parker taught many people over a long period of time, and what he was teaching changed greatly over the years. So what these different people learned from him depended largely on when they studied with him. And this has a great effect on what they themselves are now teaching. The result is that there really is no officially standardized and accepted way of doing any of it. So if you try and supplement your training with videos from Tatum of Planas or someone else, you could be trying to work with material that is directly in conflict with what you are learning from Mr. Cogliandro (I don't know what lineage Mr. Cogliandro is in, so there may be some connection there, but that's another issue and another possibility). Or at best, the material simply has no place in what you are otherwise learning. As a brown belt in SK, and a complete beginner in Parker Kenpo, you are absolutely not in a good position to be dealing with and sorting out conflicting information. If you were already an advanced Parker Kenpo practitioner, you may be able to get some benefit from experimenting with videos and seminars produced by other teachers. But at this stage in your training, you are not in a position to try and do that. To do so is most likely to be disastrous, a waste of your time and money and a great source of frustration. And the thing is, probably you won't even realize it until much later. You may go down this path for quite some time and feel confident that all is well and fine, and only later do you begin to realize that nothing really works quite right because you went about your training in the wrong way. By the time you figure this out, you've already wasted a huge deal of time and effort and possibly money.

I will echo a suggestion already put forth: continue your training in SK, at least to shodan, before you begin experimenting elsewhere. And to be honest, without a good instructor available locally, someone with whom you can meet and train with on a regular and ongoing basis, I still think you would be wasting your time to experiment with videos.

Just because two arts use the work "kenpo" or "kempo" to describe what they do, does not make them the same. They can really be very very different, and you absolutely do need a knowledgeable and skilled instructor to understand what you are doing. Watching a video and mimicking what you see is not the way to do it. I commend your enthusiasm and your desire to broaden your horizon, but really, videos are not the way to do it. Not for kenpo, not for any art. Your time will be much better spent if you focus on the training you can get with a good, local instructor.

[Danjo]

Video training = Waste of time and money. Videos are supplemental to live training, not a replacement for it.

[kempo]

I don't know anything about Mr. Cogliandro, but I am willing to assume that he is a good teacher.

If you pursue this, I would suggest you focus your AK training on what you do with Mr. Cogliandro, and disregard any videos.

My lineage in kenpo is Tracys, and I cannot comment on other lineages of kenpo. However, what seems apparent to me is that there is plenty of disagreement from one lineage to another, on how things are to be done. This isn't a Tracy vs. EPAK thing, but rather every single lineage that sprung from Mr. Parker, whether it's Planas, Wedlake, Chapel, White, Tatum, or any other. Largely from the discussions I've seen here and over on Kenpotalk, this has become rather clear to me. Mr. Parker taught many people over a long period of time, and what he was teaching changed greatly over the years. So what these different people learned from him depended largely on when they studied with him. And this has a great effect on what they themselves are now teaching. The result is that there really is no officially standardized and accepted way of doing any of it. So if you try and supplement your training with videos from Tatum of Planas or someone else, you could be trying to work with material that is directly in conflict with what you are learning from Mr. Cogliandro (I don't know what lineage Mr. Cogliandro is in, so there may be some connection there, but that's another issue and another possibility). Or at best, the material simply has no place in what you are otherwise learning. As a brown belt in SK, and a complete beginner in Parker Kenpo, you are absolutely not in a good position to be dealing with and sorting out conflicting information. If you were already an advanced Parker Kenpo practitioner, you may be able to get some benefit from experimenting with videos and seminars produced by other teachers. But at this stage in your training, you are not in a position to try and do that. To do so is most likely to be disastrous, a waste of your time and money and a great source of frustration. And the thing is, probably you won't even realize it until much later. You may go down this path for quite some time and feel confident that all is well and fine, and only later do you begin to realize that nothing really works quite right because you went about your training in the wrong way. By the time you figure this out, you've already wasted a huge deal of time and effort and possibly money.

I will echo a suggestion already put forth: continue your training in SK, at least to shodan, before you begin experimenting elsewhere. And to be honest, without a good instructor available locally, someone with whom you can meet and train with on a regular and ongoing basis, I still think you would be wasting your time to experiment with videos.

Just because two arts use the work "kenpo" or "kempo" to describe what they do, does not make them the same. They can really be very very different, and you absolutely do need a knowledgeable and skilled instructor to understand what you are doing. Watching a video and mimicking what you see is not the way to do it. I commend your enthusiasm and your desire to broaden your horizon, but really, videos are not the way to do it. Not for kenpo, not for any art. Your time will be much better spent if you focus on the training you can get with a good, local instructor.

Wow I guess I just assumed that there wasnt any deviation from Ed Parkers kenpo system. Mr Cogliandro trained with Mr. Ed Parker from 1983 to 1987 which Mr. Parker promoted Mr. Cogliandro from 3rd degree black belt to 5th degree black belt. Apparently he is the founder of American Kenpo International and teaches the Ed Parker system. There are 3-4 schools in Maine and the closest school is about an hr drive away. What I think I will do is continue my training in SKK then down the road pursue the system of Ed Parkers American Kenpo through one of Mr. Cogliandro's school.

[MJS]

Wow I guess I just assumed that there wasnt any deviation from Ed Parkers kenpo system. Mr Cogliandro trained with Mr. Ed Parker from 1983 to 1987 which Mr. Parker promoted Mr. Cogliandro from 3rd degree black belt to 5th degree black belt. Apparently he is the founder of American Kenpo International and teaches the Ed Parker system. There are 3-4 schools in Maine and the closest school is about an hr drive away. What I think I will do is continue my training in SKK then down the road pursue the system of Ed Parkers American Kenpo through one of Mr. Cogliandro's school.

Many people worked with Mr. Parker. However, I'd be willing to bet that if you took 4 people who trained under him, and had them do a technique, there would be a pretty good chance that you'd see some variations.

It sounds like you have a good plan in motion. May as well get your black in SKK and then if you choose to look at other Kenpo arts, go for it. :)

[Doc]

I am looking for your recomendation on the best home study course (Dvd's )on Ed Parkers American Kenpo system. I currently train 2 times a wk in Shaolin Kempo and because there are no American Kenpo schools in my area I am forced to learn it on my own. I do have a brown belt in Shaolin kempo so I am very familliar with this kempo and enjoy it very much but at the same time I am very interested in learing Ed Parkers Kenpo system.

Thank you

Chris

There aren't any.

[Big Don]

I'm reminded of the scene in The Karate Kid where Mr Miyagi questions "Learn Karate from BOOK?"
Same-Same.

[sjansen]

It always frustrates me when people badmouth books and videos for training. Can you learn math from a book or video? Can you learn to play basebal from a book or video? Of course you can. I agree that a live instructor is better, but what do you do when one is not available? Stop training? Stop trying to better yourself?

People in California especialy seem to like to bad mouth all of the books and video programs out there because they have 20 dojos within driving distance.

Don't listen to the naysayers. I have learned plenty from books and videos.

[Flying Crane]

Wow I guess I just assumed that there wasnt any deviation from Ed Parkers kenpo system. Mr Cogliandro trained with Mr. Ed Parker from 1983 to 1987 which Mr. Parker promoted Mr. Cogliandro from 3rd degree black belt to 5th degree black belt. Apparently he is the founder of American Kenpo International and teaches the Ed Parker system. There are 3-4 schools in Maine and the closest school is about an hr drive away. What I think I will do is continue my training in SKK then down the road pursue the system of Ed Parkers American Kenpo through one of Mr. Cogliandro's school.

Yes, I didn't understand the variety either until I started reading thru some of the discussions here. Of course I knew that Tracys was different from what came later, but I didn't realize that there was so much variation among those lineages that sprung from Mr. Parker later as well.

Honestly, I think there is no such thing as EPAK, or Parker Kenpo, as a unified entity. From what I have observed in the discussions, it seems there is quite a lot of variation, altho on the surface it may appear very similar to an uneducated eye. But just search thru the various discussions here and over on Kenpotalk, the ones that focus on the details of various self defense techniques or kata. You will see lots and lots of people chiming in with how THEY do it, and while the skeleton may be essentially the same, you will see quite a lot of variation and very little standardization across the board when it comes to the details. And the details can make all the difference.

I think there are simply many different lineages, each stemming from those who studied with Mr. Parker, propagating kenpo as they personally learned it. It doesn't necessarily mean one lineage is better than another, rather it just reflects how much and how well the individual learned what he learned from Mr. Parker, and how well he is able to transmit it down to his own students. So rather than calling it EPAK, or Parker kenpo, or something like that, I personally think it is more accurate to state the lineage of the individual who studied directly with Mr. Parker. This includes Tracys, Planas, Trejo, Chapel, White, Mills, and any of the others who are viewed as leaders in the Kenpo world today. That's my way of looking at it, anyway.

[Flying Crane]

It always frustrates me when people badmouth books and videos for training. Can you learn math from a book or video?


yes you can, but math is an intellectual exercise that doesn't need to translate into a physical skill that you may need to save your life. Intellectual knowledge can be learned from books and videos, and this can have a place in the martial arts as well. However in the martial arts, that knowledge needs to be translated into a very real physical skill. For that, books and video simply do not fit the bill. For that, you MUST have a good instructor who can show you where you are doing things wrong, and can help you put that intellectual knowledge into physical use and action.



Can you learn to play basebal from a book or video? Of course you can.


again, yes you can and after reading the book you can go outside and get someone to pitch a ball to you and you can swing and hack away at it for all you're worth. Eventually you will even hit the ball a few times, and you can figure out how to deal with fielding the ball and running the bases. Personally, my Dad and the older kids in the neighborhood taught me how to do it. I didn't learn this from a book either.

And again, even tho baseball is a set of physical skills, it isn't something that will translate into skills that might be needed to save your life. You can happily play baseball at a low skill level all your life, and there is nothing wrong with that. Martial arts are simply a different thing. You want higher level skills for that and you need a good teacher to develop that.



I agree that a live instructor is better, but what do you do when one is not available? Stop training? Stop trying to better yourself?


in the case of this person, he already has a teacher in Shaolin kenpo. He is best to stick with that.



People in California especialy seem to like to bad mouth all of the books and video programs out there because they have 20 dojos within driving distance.


there is simply a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Nobody said life was fair.http://martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif

Personally, I drive over an hour each direction, twice a week, for my kenpo training. A good teacher isn't found in every streetcorner dojo. Sometimes you gotta search them out and be willing to make sacrifices to be able to train with them. And that means being smart enough to pass up the poor options that abound, including the book and video route.

[Twin Fist]

There IS such a thing as EPAK

he set the standards n the Infinite Insights books. he set in stone what his requirements for rank are.

Any school that doesnt follow that isnt teaching EPAK, but "so and so's version of EPAK".

And I think the Tatum videos are very, very good.

as far as videos being useless for training, i would say it depends.

no beginner can learn a system from videos

someone with considerable experience can learn a LOT from them.

[kempo]

There IS such a thing as EPAK

he set the standards n the Infinite Insights books. he set in stone what his requirements for rank are.

Any school that doesnt follow that isnt teaching EPAK, but "so and so's version of EPAK".

And I think the Tatum videos are very, very good.

as far as videos being useless for training, i would say it depends.

no beginner can learn a system from videos

someone with considerable experience can learn a LOT from them.

I have to agree with you here, even though aparently alot of people dont. Now what about the IKCA system, Karate Connection, they have hunreds of black belts and most of them not all of them learned from videos, and have done it under 2 years. Now there is a teacher that I talked with who lives about 20min from my house who got his black belt through video training with the IKCA system and is now a 4th degree black belt. I have not seen him in action but I am sure he is pretty good. Now I am not going to say that I am 100% all for training and earning your black belt through video training, but for someone like myself who is training with an instructor 2 times a wk in shaolin kempo and wants to learn some of the self defense techniques from american kenpo to add to my arsinault is not a bad Idea. Hell you can go on youtube and type in any of the american kenpo techniques such as delayed sword and learn it. Unlike Shaolin Kempo, there are alot of American Kenpo techniques on youtube..

[Flying Crane]

I have to agree with you here, even though aparently alot of people dont.


my comment was that there is no widely accepted standardization as to HOW things are to be done. Yes, Mr. Parker did document content of the "system" (which, it seems, was sort of constantly changing), but to my knowledge, the details about just HOW things are to be done was left very loose. So the list of techniques and kata may be the same under different lineages, but just exactly how they apply the information and put it to use can be fairly different. Again, dig thru the many threads on specific techniques, and you will see the variety that I am talking about. I think you will see more of these threads over on the sister site, Kenpotalk.com. But that is what i mean when I say that it is really just a bunch of different lineages under people who studied under Mr. Parker. They didn't all learn everything the same, and in that sense, there is no true or complete constistency from one Parker Lineage to another. In that sense, there is no standardized "EPAK".



Now what about the IKCA system, Karate Connection, they have hunreds of black belts and most of them not all of them learned from videos, and have done it under 2 years.


I have no experience with them so I cannot offer a concrete critique of what they do. I do know that Chuck Sullivan was with Mr. Parker for a very long time. That being said, I personally would never undertake to study strictly thru theirs or anybody else's video course. If I was looking for another kenpo teacher, and one of their people was nearby, I might choose to study with him if I felt he was good. But if I knew that HIS training was strictly, or predominantly thru video in his living room, that alone would make me look elsewhere. That's just my own personal view on it. Some people feel differently than I do, and you are of course welcome to use your own critical thinking and make your own decisions.



... but for someone like myself who is training with an instructor 2 times a wk in shaolin kempo and wants to learn some of the self defense techniques from american kenpo to add to my arsinault is not a bad Idea.


Do you feel your SK training is lacking or leaving dangerous gaps in your training? If so you might want to reconsider training with that instructor as well.



Hell you can go on youtube and type in any of the american kenpo techniques such as delayed sword and learn it. Unlike Shaolin Kempo, there are alot of American Kenpo techniques on youtube..
[/quote]

that's true, and again, from my own perspective, I don't understand why people do this. Personally, I like to keep my training held close. I don't post it out there for the world to gawk at. It's something very personal to me, I've worked for many years on it, and I'm not interested in turning it into performance art, nor am I interested in trying to impress the kenpo/martial arts community with what I can do. And neither am I interested in trying to teach the faceless masses of people who log onto Youtube. I just don't understand why people are so keen on posting everything there. But again, that's just me.

But getting back to the main point: what if you learn Delayed Sword from some random Youtube clip, and then you show up for a lesson with Mr. Cogliandro, and he tells you that what you learned from the video is all wrong, and it should be done THIS way instead? Now who do you believe? Which way do you want to do it? How much time did you waste, trying to learn it from Youtube?

[Flying Crane]

my comment was that there is no widely accepted standardization as to HOW things are to be done. Yes, Mr. Parker did document content of the "system" (which, it seems, was sort of constantly changing), but to my knowledge, the details about just HOW things are to be done was left very loose. So the list of techniques and kata may be the same under different lineages, but just exactly how they apply the information and put it to use can be fairly different. Again, dig thru the many threads on specific techniques, and you will see the variety that I am talking about.


Check out Post #3 in this thread, for a brief example of what I am talking about. This recent post by Dr. Dave hits the point I'm making pretty clearly.

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69543