crosstraining,,or crossdressing???

[lonekimono]

Now i know that some people might get a little upset about this one,now don't let the subject throw you.
I had this man come into my school(this was at the end of class) and he sat down and said that he would like to learn kenpo, i said good he than took out $200.00 and put in on my desk.
I said don't you want to know about the school and what we do here? he said that it did not matter because i teach karate at my school(not kenpo) and i heard that you kenpo guys have fast hand's .
So i said what do you teach?( i rather not say what it was) after he told me i said you teach full time at your school? he said yes, i said you know that you would have to wear a black gi? and a white belt! he that he could not do that,i took his money and gave it back to him and said have a nice day.
My point is that i don't want to train somebody who train's in some other art and is a black belt in that art,the only thing that he want's to do is take my art and water it down for his use
like somebody said on tv "i don't play that" and as for not wearing a white belt with the black gi? thats the cross dressing
that i spoke of ( head strong)


yours in kenpo
man with black eye have dark outlook on life :asian:

[tarabos]

some people just can't let go of that belt they were wearing....even if they're taking it to a different school that teaches a completely different type of martial art.

personally the though of slapping a white belt on again and starting from "scratch" basically is really exciting to me. i would have it no other way if i were to enroll in another school...

[Jill666]

Originally posted by lonekimono
My point is that i don't want to train somebody who train's in some other art and is a black belt in that art,the only thing that he want's to do is take my art and water it down for his use.

yours in kenpo :asian:

I agree with your handling of this specific situation completely.

But I DISagree with the above statement- as a blanket statement it isn't true. I have a black belt in kenpo. I have begun studying bujikan taijutsu. I absolutely do not want the art watered down, and though I thought initially I was training to supplement the kenpo, this is not what is happening. I am finding a great deal of movement, approach and defence that is completely different from what I have previously studied. So I have decided to "empty my cup".

With that in mind, I do not wear the black belt in the bujikan dojo. I am 9th kyu there.

I am glad you posted what you did, in the words you did because I just have been thinking about this- my approach, where it will lead me, answers I don't have yet.

[lonekimono]

just for the record i only have one black belt and it's in kenpo, and for the people who crosstrain?/crossdress?
you may drive a ford, i drive a JEEP but you can't drive both at the same time.



yours in kenpo
man who make love on ground have peace on earth ;)

[yilisifu]

If he can't humble himself enough to approach your kenpo with a "beginner's mind", he'd never learn anything anyway. You handled it well.

[lonekimono]

thank you


yours in kenpo
they have eyes but they do not see

[tarabos]

Originally posted by lonekimono
just for the record i only have one black belt and it's in kenpo, and for the people who crosstrain?/crossdress?
you may drive a ford, i drive a JEEP but you can't drive both at the same time.



yours in kenpo ;)



i take it you are not in favor of cross-training then? or am i reading you wrong?

[lonekimono]

Matt i only know what i know and why it's so:)




yours in kenpo

[tarabos]

fair enough.....:D :asian:

[MartialArtist]

I would take the white belt... Only ignorant people judge ability with outward appearances.

[Cryozombie]

I agree. I recently started in a new school for the same art and the instructor asked me to start a Kyu rank back, since his structure is different than the School I preiviously attended. I told him I I had no issue if he wated to start me back at the beginning again!

I certainly don't feel humbled, him askin' me to go back and re-learn my basics. HE'S teaching me more than I am teaching him (hopefully, heh heh) and I trust his judgement in this matter. I ALMOST had a black belt in Hapkido (1 and 1/2 blet ranks to go, we used the stripe system) and I certainly wouldnt have walked into the Bujinkan and assumed I should be a 2nd Kyu. I wouldnt walk into a Hapkido school now and Expect to be made a brownbelt either!

I would just expect to promote faster, or at the very least be better when I do promote than if I had not previously had that rank. Of course after 2 weeks of class at my new Dojo, my instructor is talking about promoting me back to my old rank, citing that my old instructer must have been good, because my Taijutsu is good... Yay.

But a belt is a belt is a belt... and in the end your ability is more important than what holds up your pants.

[tarabos]

people rolling up to schools expecting or requesting to keep their black belt on is one thing.

how many here have heard of INSTRUCTORS that will take new students that are black belts in another style who are perfectly willing to start as a white belt, but then feel the need to promote them to black belt in a matter of months, weeks, or even immediately when the take their first few classes?

i have...that is even more disgraceful than the arrogant student.

[lonekimono]

Hey Matt i knew there was something about you i liked?
you are a class act

yours in kenpo









if you close your eyes you will see who you really are :p

[tarabos]

Originally posted by lonekimono
Hey Matt i knew there was something about you i liked?
you are a class act

yours in kenpo



you're going to make me blush there george...:D

thanks for the compliment there...:asian:

[Nightingale]

what I've seen schools do is have that person wear a black belt but with white tabs or a white stripe down the center... and they're given the respects accorded to a black belt, and stand where a black belt would, but wear the different belt to signify their status in their new art. Someone told me that it signifies that the person has prior experience, and that they bring that experience with them, but that they're learning new stuff too.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
what I've seen schools do is have that person wear a black belt but with white tabs or a white stripe down the center... and they're given the respects accorded to a black belt, and stand where a black belt would, but wear the different belt to signify their status in their new art. Someone told me that it signifies that the person has prior experience, and that they bring that experience with them, but that they're learning new stuff too.


Interesting idea .... {filed aside for later in life}

[DAC..florida]

I feel that if that man didnt want to wear a white belt, that I would have shown him the door also.
As far as cross training I feel that there is nothing wrong with wanting to learn more than one style alot of Martial Artists do this including myself. TKD is a great style but I also wanted some close quarters training.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
what I've seen schools do is have that person wear a black belt but with white tabs or a white stripe down the center... and they're given the respects accorded to a black belt, and stand where a black belt would, but wear the different belt to signify their status in their new art. Someone told me that it signifies that the person has prior experience, and that they bring that experience with them, but that they're learning new stuff too.


Nightingale,

I like this idea. I have seen something like it also.

I carry my White belt with me in my bag of sticks and pads and stuff. Why for when I am going to another class uninvited, then I wear the White Belt. If the instructor invites me I wear my Black Belt.

Now, I was in this class of Ju-jitsu (* Invited by a student, co-worker of mine *) and I was wearing my white belt. The Co-worker had not shown up, so I was all alone with out introduction. The instructor handled it by having me work with some of his black belts. As it turned out, the black belts were very upset with me, when they found out I had prior knowledge. They said I was spying and trying to steal stuff. So, I just see no one way of having it always work.

Yet to the original post, I would have handed the money back as well. We have and have had students of Balck Belt rank come to our club to learn. They wear the uniform of our club and start with a white belt. They go through the curriculum just like everyone else. No granted they might be on the shorted side of the time required to learn a technique, and then again they might be on the longer side also. Trying to overcome previous training.

:asian:

[Aegis]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
As it turned out, the black belts were very upset with me, when they found out I had prior knowledge. They said I was spying and trying to steal stuff. So, I just see no one way of having it always work.

I hope you at least gave them a withering look for that one....

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Aegis
I hope you at least gave them a withering look for that one....

Actually,

One of them tried to choke me out. I said he was not choking me but, separating my skull from my spine. I may pass out right before you brake my neck. Please stop. (* Tap Tap *)

He smiled and continued. This is when I poked him in the throat, an illegal move :) and then throw him wiht a wrist lock from the ground on my back. The class stopped, I stood up and asked the instructor if I could leave. He had no idea what had happened. He looked at me and asked me kindly if I would not mind working with this other guy. The 7'5" 500 lb monster. I said Sure. And you know what it was hard getting the techniques on this guys (* pure body size *) I did learn something and have fun. BTW this guy was a white belt. I never went back and I do not talk to the co-worker anymore.

:asian:

[tarabos]

relating to the belts with different colors...we do this for the kids right now at our school. the children have a different cirriculum than the adults...i don't neccessarily agree with that but that's the way it is. it's very watered down, so by the time they would have the children's black requirements they are about at blue belt in the adult requirement.

and before anyone goes off about giving kids black belts...they have to be teenagers, and they are NOT official black belts...:D

they're teen black belts as we tend to call them. and they get a blue stripe instead of a red stripe like the adults. the next test they take would be for the green belt requirements...so the blue stripe becomes a green one. then a brown stripe...and so on.

i think it's a fair idea, this way the kids to not feel discouraged about having the black belt taken away, but at the same time they do not feel intimidated about being in a class full of adults and thinking that they have to back up the belt that they are wearing. and i'll also say that it's not easy for the kids to get a teen black belt...there are only a few of them. it takes them probably longer to get that teen black belt than it does for an adult to get one, especially if they start very young...like say the age of 4. they'll have to wait at least until they are 13 to get the belt. and age is not a given for a promotion of course.


as for new adult students that were black belts...we don't give them special belts. just a nice clean white one...unless they have one already that they want to wear. i suppose i don't mind the idea of the white with a stripe through it, but i must say i'd prefer it if they stayed with the traditional grading system out of respect for the art. and we don't just throw black belts into the class without giving the other students prior knowledge. we always make it know that they have prior experience and they should not be taken lightly....even though sometimes they should :D

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Actually,

One of them tried to choke me out. I said he was not choking me but, separating my skull from my spine. I may pass out right before you brake my neck. Please stop. (* Tap Tap *)


that's a low-down thing to do to someone, but you handled it well i think.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
I never went back and I do not talk to the co-worker anymore.

:asian:

I understand never going back BUT am still not sure what the co-worker did wrong :confused:

:asian:

[Jill666]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons

We have and have had students of Balck Belt rank come to our club to learn. They wear the uniform of our club and start with a white belt. They go through the curriculum just like everyone else. No granted they might be on the shorted side of the time required to learn a technique, and then again they might be on the longer side also. Trying to overcome previous training.

:asian:

Man has a point! Very true Rich. Some arts have radically different approaches. Some may have a hard time because of arrogance and thinking they are the $h!t. OR they learned bad habits that their former instructor did not address for whatever reason.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
I understand never going back BUT am still not sure what the co-worker did wrong :confused:

:asian:

The Co-worker denied inviting me to the club and to me in front of others. I cannot associate with people like this.

If he woudl have said Yes I invited him, but i did not know ...
then I would have been fine.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Jill666
Man has a point! Very true Rich. Some arts have radically different approaches. Some may have a hard time because of arrogance and thinking they are the $h!t. OR they learned bad habits that their former instructor did not address for whatever reason.

And the Yili Guys will cringe on this one:

They might be going from a soft to a hard style or vice versa. THe hard to soft is real hard for many people to get used too. They cannot relax. :D

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
The Co-worker denied inviting me to the club and to me in front of others. I cannot associate with people like this.

If he woudl have said Yes I invited him, but i did not know ...
then I would have been fine.

Good choice :asian: