Whats a black belt to you

[kingkong89]

I have always wondered what does a black belt of any belt mean to you. Many people i have met take there belt seriously, they dont let it touch the ground dont leave it anywhere where they cant grab it fast. Others believe its just a piece of material that holds your gi top together or holds your pants up. I was just curious what everyone else thought

[Mimir]

To me it is a symbol of the acomplishment that means the world to me. I want to treat it with kid gloves. It is also a reminder that while I am wearing it, the other students are looking up to me and that makes me very aware of how I should act. It also reminds me that I am still a student because I know that while I have the belt, and don't get me wrong, I earned it, I also know that I still have a whole lot more to learn about my art.

[Kreth]

It's a piece of cloth. I place more stock in the skill (or lack thereof) of the person wearing it.

[thesandman]

It's a piece of cloth in the same way a bronze star is just a piece of metal, a diploma is just a piece of paper and tombstone is just a piece of concrete.

[terryl965]

It means that my instructor thought enough of my skill to award me one with his name on it, It means the same as always an since of knowing enough and also that I have after 45 years in the Martial Arts that I have alot more to learn.

[Big Don]

A symbol of dedication.

[tko4u]

While I may lay my belt on the counter, I do not lay it on the ground. I have always been told you never let a black belt hit the floor. Kwanjang has always been big on that. But I do believe that the belt doesnt define the person, it merely is a symbol of an accomplishment.

[pesilat]

Depends specifically on the system and/or instructor but in general I equate a 1st degree BB with a high school diploma.

It is an accomplishment - and an important one from one perspective. For someone who keeps training in MA, though, it's just a stepping stone. From that perspective a 3rd degree might be considered an Associate's Degree, a 5th = Bachelor, 7th = Masters, 9th = Doctorate.

Like I said this comparison varies from instructor to instructor, school to school and system to system.

Further, it's important to remember that the only place your rank has any real significance is in your school and usually within your system (i.e.: visiting a sister school or whatnot). Sometimes it can carry weight within the larger art. For clarification I use the terms art, system and style like this:

An art is a group of systems, usually from a particular geographical region, that are similar to each other and are classified together. For instance, "Karate" is an art that refers to a group of systems such as Goju-Ryu, Shotokan, etc.

A system is a specific curriculum.

A style is an individual's particular expression.

These are my personal definitions - yours may vary but this should help keep us all on the same page :D

When I go into another school that is outside of my system - unless I've been invited as an instructor - then I go in as a visitor with no rank. If the instructor at the school chooses to recognize my rank then that's cool but I don't expect it.

Mike

[hogstooth]

You know when I earned my Shodan it really meant something to me. Every rank above that it just became a belt. I had an instructor that would bow to his belt before he put it on to start class and after he took it off at the end of class. I bow to show respect to my sensei, my fellow BB's and to my students. Bowing to your belt just somehow makes it a false idol. It comes down to ego I think. The belt doesn't define me I do. My accomplishments do not boil down to my belt nor do I think it holds the sole of my training or some hokey thing like that. It is a symbol of the hard work it took to get it. But it doesn't contain my skill. If I am walking down the street and get attacked my years of hard work and self sacrifice is what will help me not the fact that I have a BB.
In fact I have seen shodan and even nidan that couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. So I do not look at the belt but rather the person who is wearing it.

[jim777]

I have always wondered what does a black belt of any belt mean to you. Many people i have met take there belt seriously, they dont let it touch the ground dont leave it anywhere where they cant grab it fast. Others believe its just a piece of material that holds your gi top together or holds your pants up. I was just curious what everyone else thought

I have never allowed any belt I have actually earned through my own hard work and dedication to hit the floor. While the belt doesn't define me, it does represent the time and dedication I have put in, and to treat it like an old undershirt is absolutely disrespectful in my opinion. A black belt means a lot to me. Had I earned my BB when I was a teenager and was now very high in rank, it might be a different story; but having started in my mid forties I have a very different perspective on the quality of time I am giving up to earn that belt. I am trading quality time with my children to gain that belt; and many would say it is simply vanity on my part. It may well be vanity on my part, I admit that. But when I do earn that belt, you can damn well believe I will treat it like it was hard earned and as valuable as gold, and not just handed out like plastic bags at a supermarket.

In and of itself any belt is of equal value to any other belt; that's probably patently obvious. But your black belt should be given the utmpost respect (short of bowing to it, that's just plain odd IMHO) due to what it cost you to achieve.

jim

[Cirdan]

In Wado we don`t treat the belt as anything special.. we use it as a jumping rope, for tug of war, put it on the floor and walk on it etc. However a worn belt can be a bit of a symbol of dedicated training or time spent in the art, especially among the black belts. This might also be related to the tendency to not wash the belt at least at higher levels.

[jarrod]

a belt is only as good as the person wearing it.

i toss mine on the floor til we're done picking up mats, then it stays crammed in my gym bag until the next session. when it gets ratty looking, i'll buy another one.

jf

[Kacey]

The actual piece of cotton is meaningless; the opinion of those who felt I deserved that piece of cotton is priceless.

[foggymorning162]

I do not put my belt on the floor nor do I wash it as these are traditions. What does a black belt mean to me? It is a symbol. The more important questions are "What is a martial artist? and Am I worthy of that title?"

[Kreth]

I do not put my belt on the floor nor do I wash it as these are traditions.
You don't believe that story about a white belt getting dirtier until it became a black belt, do you?

[gixxershane]

I feel it is an indication of rank.. Kind of like in the military or other orginazations.. It is a sign of accomplishment.. It shows your place and dedication in the art and school you study (at).

Belts help the student visuilize where they are compared to where they want to be.. It gives them short and long term goals..

As far as the ground thing, that doesnt bother me, because when I get thrown to the ground the belt hits the gournd with me.. I do not wash it tho.. more of a super stition thing.. lol

[foggymorning162]

You don't believe that story about a white belt getting dirtier until it became a black belt, do you?

No it wahes out the knowledge:uhyeah:

[Aniela13]

It's a piece of cloth in the same way a bronze star is just a piece of metal, a diploma is just a piece of paper and tombstone is just a piece of concrete.

Ditto this...it is a reminder of the hours spent training, the knowledge acquired, and the many memories over the years. It may be a piece of cloth, but it is my favorite piece of cloth for everything it represents.

[morph4me]

It's a piece of cloth. I place more stock in the skill (or lack thereof) of the person wearing it.


Ditto. A belt itself is a piece of cloth to hold the top of my gi closed, what it represents is something else altogether, and if what it represents is an actual indication of skill varies from school to school and/or person to person.

[MJS]

I have always wondered what does a black belt of any belt mean to you. Many people i have met take there belt seriously, they dont let it touch the ground dont leave it anywhere where they cant grab it fast. Others believe its just a piece of material that holds your gi top together or holds your pants up. I was just curious what everyone else thought

I have to agree with a few others...it is just a piece of cloth. Now, does this mean that I don't have any respect for my belt? Of course I do, but like I always say, its not the belt, but the skill that really matters. Reaching BB level IMO, is really just another stepping stone. While it signifies to a point, reaching a certain point, it doesn't mean that you've mastered everything there is to know, because there is always something to work on and improve. BB is the time when we should really go back to look at what we've been doing. Are we getting the most out of our techniques? Are we getting the most out of our kata? 2 legit questions.

[Hyper_Shadow]

A black belt is just a dirty white belt.

[tigress]

I agree that it's an accomplishment.

At the end of the day though, its just a piece of cloth. I think it depends on how well you know the art and skill.

It also depends on the school you go to, one of my college friends said he used to take a martial arts class and they handed belts out every month. I think they might have been in it for the money. :(

[ganglian]

I have always wondered what does a black belt of any belt mean to you. Many people i have met take there belt seriously, they dont let it touch the ground dont leave it anywhere where they cant grab it fast. Others believe its just a piece of material that holds your gi top together or holds your pants up. I was just curious what everyone else thought


An answer and an observation that some systems dont bother with belts at all.

But.. to me, it means you have learned the basic foundation and are ready start really learning.

[Jimi]

I understand & respect someone honoring a tradition of Belt rank ritual. I see others who do not care about belt rank or its traditions and that is their privilege to hold their own opinion. I just wonder how many people involved in commercial martial arts believe that the BLACK BELT rank is a thousand years old. More than we will hear from about it I bet. I have been at commercial martial arts schools where both parents and children alike believe (Usually from a school manager or head instructor) that the forms & belt ranks have been time honored for centuries. How old is the BLACK BELT rank? Many will answer differently, but those who think BB rank is a time honored thousand year old tradition have been mislead. BTW, I hold BB rank in TKD, Kenpo & Even Bando. A Black Belt in (ABA) Bando means nothing to those who practiced Thaing a thousand years ago. The Thai vilagers who were over-run by the Burmese in Ayuthaya did not ask for Belt Rank or Certificates to tell who was to be respected or feared. The skills speak for themselves. In the states people do want to use Black Belt rank as an intimidation or fear factor. I just don't like seeing some people hide behind belt rank for their opinions etc... A Black Belt can be very respectable, people just should not let their desire for it consume them. It's like the riddle of steel from Conan the barbarian. Which is stronger, steel or the flesh & blood that weilds it? Similar here, which is stronger, the Black Belt or the person wearing it? Not against BB rank, just don't like what some do to sell it or be bowed down to etc...No disrespect intended. PEACE

[Xue Sheng]

A band of flexible material for encircling the waist that happens to be black in color.

[swiftpete]

Wow I'm surprised by the amount of people here that won't let their belt touch the floor and bowing to it etc. That seems crazy to me. It's just part of your kit, mine gets chucked into my gym bag with the rest of my stuff.

In fact I think having a black belt on can be a bit of a pain in the arse sometimes, it means when I'm training with the new guys in class, they expect me to do everything perfectly while the reality is I'm just as much of a student as anyone else there and still regularly make mistakes.

[girlbug2]

When I was training in American Kenpo I fully expected that by now I would have taken my BB test and passed it. However, due to the best laid plans of mice and men my training was cut short at green belt level. Looking back on that, I realize that I idolized that black belt inappropriately. I thought that somehow it would magically transfer some kind of dignity and class to me once I obtained it.

Now that I have taken the level 1 Krav Maga test I see a belt differently, since we do not normally wear our belts in training. I realize two things: one, that each and every belt level test is the most difficult thing I will ever do outside of labor -- and that does say something about the character of somebody who has done it six times to get to black; two, that one's level of skill and dedication is what shows in training, not belt rank. I no longer idolize the belt itself, but I do realize more concretely what is behind getting there and my respect has increased for the warrior spirit it represents.

So when I get to black some day, I will cherish it, you can bet. Probably I won't have to wash it because it won't be worn often. Likely, it will brush the floor now and again and that's okay. Certainly it will get lovingly stored away like my wedding gown and brought out now and again to admire.

[tigress]

Wow I'm surprised by the amount of people here that won't let their belt touch the floor and bowing to it etc. That seems crazy to me. It's just part of your kit, mine gets chucked into my gym bag with the rest of my stuff.

In fact I think having a black belt on can be a bit of a pain in the arse sometimes, it means when I'm training with the new guys in class, they expect me to do everything perfectly while the reality is I'm just as much of a student as anyone else there and still regularly make mistakes.

Exactly.

[Ninebird8]

A black belt is an indication you now understand the basics, and are ready to learn the real things. Or,like my Ying Jow master told us, "I start all of you Americans with black sash, so you can get over it and learn something and tell your friends. Then, I give you white sash as instructor or master so you know the learning is ongoing." Works for me.

[jarrod]

In fact I think having a black belt on can be a bit of a pain in the arse sometimes, it means when I'm training with the new guys in class, they expect me to do everything perfectly while the reality is I'm just as much of a student as anyone else there and still regularly make mistakes.

i really, REALLY liked being a brown belt, because it meant i was almost a black belt but was still allowed to mess up. in fact i felt really awkward wearing my blackbelt for about 6 months after i received it. mostly it's just something to prove when you still shouldn't have much to prove.

jf

[kaizasosei]

i really long for a black belt because i have trained so long as a white belt or just with a tshirt. the biggest reason is that im kindof getting sick of being persecuted as a tshirt wearer and having to proove myself time and time again. getting a black belt is my goal now for bbt. i look forward to climbing the ranks to achieve what i need for greater comfort and respect.
it's sad that people need to see a belt on you to respect, but most of the time, it's like that.

in aikido, i can deal with being an eternal whitebelt, because it's supposed to be spiritual and if someone turns violent or forcefull, then ill take the liberty of communicating. also, my aikido group knows me for a long time(god knows i take long breaks off training, but nevertheless) so i respect them as hakamawearers with lots of goodies to teach, and for the most part, they respect me as a justified and wellmeaning aikimonster.

in mma, as far as i know, noone has told me of any belts or ranks. so all that counts there is real ability and certain facts.


j

[YoungMan]

A black belt means several things.
First, it indicates you have a solid indication of the basics of your art. It does not mean you're an expert, but that now you are ready for more advanced knowledge.

Second, it it means you are now an official face of your style and organization. People don't care about green belts or brown belts. But most people are familiar with black belts and the amount of dedication it takes to earn one. Therefore, a black belt is watched closely by his peers and the lay public as a representative of the art and organization.

Third, it means instructors in your organization thought enough of you to feel you earned the right to wear one. That's a heavy responsibility. You should NEVER treat your belt as simply a piece of cloth. Symbolically it is much more than that.

[Danjo]

A black belt is a birth certificate. What went before that was the gestation period where many miscarraiges and abortions happen. When you get the black belt, you start your life in the martial arts. You're on the family tree. Lots of growing left to take place until maturity is reached though.

[sjansen]

You don't believe that story about a white belt getting dirtier until it became a black belt, do you?

I have never washed a belt because I was told not too. I don't believe the story either. If anything the black belt turns white over time. I don't understand why you wouldn't let it touch the ground. I does when I'm wearing it. It's not the flag. To me a little more than a piece of cloth, but that is only because it is a symbol of what I know or think I do. I have seen black belts who knew nothing and white belts who knew lots. To me knowledge is the real value.

Just my two cents, Scott

[shihansmurf]

Different belts that I own mean different things to me.

I own one of my teachers belts that he gave me shortly before he passed on. It was one that he had worn since he lived in Japan in the 70's. It means quit a bit to me and hangs in my "Man Cave" as the wife refers to it with a picture of my teacher and friend.

My shodan belt that is falling into tatters and looks quite cool because of it, I only wear it when I test students and want to look all authentic. I put on my best stern "Sensei" face as well. I weigh about 25 pounds more now so it doesn't hang as well but I'm loosing weight(10 lbs so far) so its gettin there).

I have a cool belt that a few of the kids at the school I was training/teaching at when I deployed got together and got me as a welcome home gift. I normally find the American flag belts to be tacky and a bit disrespectful but in this case I found it to be touching. I have this one hangine in my mane cave as well.

My most senior student gave me his shodan upon his promotion to nidan and asked me to award it to my son when he grows up and earns his black belt. This is the closest that I have came to tearing up that didn't include a shot to the smurfberries. Matt ,my student, was also my best man at my wedding and on of the closest friends I have ever had.. the martial arts have provoded much in my life.

Other than those, they are all just bits of cloth that have no intrinsic worth whatsoever.

Mark

[Korppi76]

For me the belt itself is just piece of cloth and I handle it just like other my training gear ( I do wash it and I try to keep it well (?)).
I have had only 2 black belts (it has been 10 year since shodan) and I gave my first one to my first student who got his shodan because he had to teach training next day. My second one is turning to gray so I have thought to buy new one... but it takes so long to get it comfortable so it is piece of cloth but (how to say?) it is comfortable and my piece of cloth. :)

Black belt itself means that you know atleast basics of your art and you should be able to handle higher level/more/faster training and you should be able to teach at least basics of your art.

[Balrog]

Depends specifically on the system and/or instructor but in general I equate a 1st degree BB with a high school diploma.

It is an accomplishment - and an important one from one perspective. For someone who keeps training in MA, though, it's just a stepping stone. From that perspective a 3rd degree might be considered an Associate's Degree, a 5th = Bachelor, 7th = Masters, 9th = Doctorate.
I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who uses the college analogy.

Too many people think that 1st Degree is a stopping point and they quit when they get their "Black Belt". I have found that using the college analogy really helps reinforce the concept that the entire journey from White Belt to Black Belt was about learning the basics; at Black Belt, you start learning the art.

[Babook]

A black belt is someone who kept visiting his school till one day he got a thick black colored strip of cotton around his waste.
Since I seen white belts beat black belts and black belts do drugs and other disrespectful things, I don't see BB as anything more then the person who has some martial arts training.

[Danjo]

A black belt is someone who kept visiting his school till one day he got a thick black colored strip of cotton around his waste.
Since I seen white belts beat black belts and black belts do drugs and other disrespectful things, I don't see BB as anything more then the person who has some martial arts training.

Well, it sounds like you've been exposed to a pretty cruddy martial art school. If they just give someone a black belt after they've visited the school for long enough, then that's the problem right there. I guess we're limited to our experiences.

[celtic_crippler]

I was cleaning out a closet and came across this little tid-bit and remembered this thread.

What Does it Mean to be a Black Belt
-unknown author

After years of relentless training, a martial artist kneels before their instructor in a ceremony to recieve the coveted black belt.

"Before granting you the belt, you must pass one more test," the instructor solemnly tells the student. "I'm ready," responds the student, expecting perhaps one more round of sparring. "You must answer the essential question, 'What is the true meaning of the black belt?'"

"Why, the end of my journey," says the student confidently. "It's a well deserved reward for all of my hard work." The instructor waits for more, but clearly not satisfied the instructor says, "You are not ready. Try again in a years time."

A year later the student once again kneels before the instructor and is again asked the question, "What is the true meaning of the black belt?" The student replies, "It is a symbol of distinction and the highest achievment in our art." Dissatisfied the instructor once again says, You are not ready. Try again in a years time."

Another year passes and the student again kneels before their instructor and hears the familiar question, "What is the true meaning of the black belt?" This time the student anwers, "The black belt represents not an end, but the continuation of a never-ending journey of discipline, self-improvement, and the pursuit of an ever-higher standard."

"Yes," says the instructor. "You are now ready to recieve the black belt."

Change represents new beginnings and need not be feared. One should not be content with a permanent resting place, for a full and happy life is never stagnant.

[hkfuie]

Yes, it is just a piece of cloth. But since I got my BB 10 years ago, I have moved away and trained in some different arts. For me, it is a symbol of my connection to my first instructor and his instructors. We don't let our belts touch the ground, not as respect for the cloth, but out of respect for the tradition we are part of. I really liked my first instructor and still communiate with him and still consider him my instructor. I have so much respect for the people I know through that school and treating the belt with respect is simply a way I keep them and what I learned from them close to me.

Good question! I have enjoyed reading everyone's responses.

[foggymorning162]

The first time I read this thread I wasn't sure if I wanted to share this as it is very personal to me but I think the members here are an extension of my MA family so I have decided to share. One of our federation requirements is a letter to the Master Belt Panel on What it would mean to me to be a Black Belt. So here goes, this was my letter.

WHAT IT MEANS TO ME TO BE A BLACK BELT

What would it mean to me to become a black belt? I have trained for three and a half years towards the goal of “BLACK BELT” and now that it is almost in sight, how could this one simple question seem harder than the training?

Becoming a black belt would mean the respect of my peers but if I deserve it than I should have earned it by now and if I have not then simply putting on the belt won’t entitle me to it. It would mean instant respect from those who are walking in to the dojang and just meeting me for the first time, but am I deserving of that respect and can I keep it through my actions. It would mean that I had finally reached that goal, but another has already been set. After you reach black belt you don’t just stop you strive towards the next goal.

For me “black belt” has always been more of a spiritual ideal, I grew up watching David Carradine and wanting to be “Grasshopper”. To achieve that level of patience and selflessness the inner peace. This has proven an unattainable goal, and yet the students I teach don’t know that I get angry when I get cut off in traffic or that I sometimes want to use my supervisor as an uki, just as growing up I didn’t know David Carradine would sell out to yellow book. So what does becoming a black belt mean to me? It means showing those kids “if I can do it you can too”, it means going on to learn new things so I can teach it to them. It also means knowing that I can still learn from them and having them as part of my training is a blessing. Becoming a black belt would mean that at least my instructors think I have gotten closer to that unattainable goal, even if I don’t see it myself.

When I first started as a white belt I couldn’t wait to get to black, but now I find that the journey means more to me than the belt, that as long as I can keep training, learning new things teaching others and being a part of the Cheezic Tang Soo Do family my rank doesn’t matter. If I can touch just one child’s life and help them to become stronger and more self confident and if I can instill in them a desire to do the same for others, then maybe I have attained the unattainable. Then, maybe I will truly deserve to be a “BLACK BELT”

Misty Sherman

[Danjo]

For me “black belt” has always been more of a spiritual ideal, I grew up watching David Carradine and wanting to be “Grasshopper”. To achieve that level of patience and selflessness the inner peace. This has proven an unattainable goal, and yet the students I teach don’t know that I get angry when I get cut off in traffic or that I sometimes want to use my supervisor as an uki, just as growing up I didn’t know David Carradine would sell out to yellow book.
Misty Sherman

I loved those Yellow Book ads.

[Daniel Sullivan]

A black belt means several things.
First, it indicates you have a solid indication of the basics of your art. It does not mean you're an expert, but that now you are ready for more advanced knowledge.

Second, it it means you are now an official face of your style and organization. People don't care about green belts or brown belts. But most people are familiar with black belts and the amount of dedication it takes to earn one. Therefore, a black belt is watched closely by his peers and the lay public as a representative of the art and organization.

Third, it means instructors in your organization thought enough of you to feel you earned the right to wear one. That's a heavy responsibility. You should NEVER treat your belt as simply a piece of cloth. Symbolically it is much more than that.
Took the words right out of my mouth.

The black belt represents proficiency in the basics and is a proficient figher, and that the student is ready for more advanced learning.

Daniel

[Tez3]

A saying I've pinched off a thread on wise sayings on Iain Abernethy's forum because I like it . . .. . 'a black belt is a white belt who never gave up'

[Guro Harold]

An improvised Sarong/Marong! ;)

[terryl965]

The same as any of my belts, they are something I have earned and if I do not keep training something I will loose as well. Not in being taken away but the skill will go.

[Danjo]

The same as any of my belts, they are something I have earned and if I do not keep training something I will loose as well. Not in being taken away but the skill will go.

Yeah, it's either a symbol of what you are or what you were.

[jarl]

I've practiced, taught and played Judo since 1967. The belt, the rank?
Kano said they were to display attainment of goals, originally short term. the advent of Tae Kwon Do marketing in the US threw a spin on that.
In judo we roll on the mat wearing our belts, we take them off to jump over them when practicing ukemi and in my dojo we make circles on the mat with them for sumo matches. Is this disrespectful? I don't know.
Is the belt really as important as it might be if you didn't have to pay the sensei for the test to get it?
What does it mean to you when someone asks you your rank; what belt are you? Make that someone who practices no martial art!
When someone new comes to my dojo they expect the teacher to have a black belt as they probably do at any dojo. So as far as I'm concerned my black belt better enables me to do what I love; teach.

[Shicomm]

To me it's a symbol , a sign above the road that never ends.
There were signs before but this one is a bit bigger then others :)

It's a reminder as well to the feelings and emotions that came along the way.


In fact I think having a black belt on can be a bit of a pain in the arse sometimes, it means when I'm training with the new guys in class, they expect me to do everything perfectly while the reality is I'm just as much of a student as anyone else there and still regularly make mistakes.Totally agree with that.