the "casual" martial artist

[tarabos]

the casual martial artist....the casual student....there's at least one in every school, probably a lot more than one. no matter what discipline you're associated with, you've probably run into at least one.

what i'm speaking of here is the person that comes into a school/dojo/dojang/etc...and is there just to get some excersise, to meet some new people perhaps, or of course to be the infamous "belt hunter."

what are your experiences with this? have you found it to detriment a school, or do you believe that they help keep it afloat? how far have you ever seen a casual student progress in rank? have you ever experienced a casual student becoming more than that and taking on a new leaf to become a serious martial artist who is really interested in being the best they can be? do you feel your place of training has too many of them...not enough of them? even just a funny story about one would be good enough for me.

this one goes out to students and teachers alike. for teachers, how do you feel they are best dealt with. by that i mean when looking at it from a business point of view, how hard would you push them...what standard would you hold them to? it's easy to say that you would hold them to the same standards as everyone else, but sometimes you have to think about the good of the school and staying in business. let's hear it, i'm interested to see both positive and not so positive views on the subject.

[dearnis.com]

I tend to lose them quickly. Since I am not dependant on them for income I have no urge to cater to them.

[khadaji]

As a teacher,
This is a problem I faced when I ran my college Fencing club. All the instruction I gave was free of charge. It got very agrivating.

People would come, and practice for about a week or two, then nolonger appear. Many would only show up to 2 sessions. It only averaed about 5 regulars. 3 of which were whole hartedly dedicated. However I would always meet these people at other places and they all said how much they like my classes, and would see me at the next one. Then if i was lucky I would see them as one session before the end of the semester.

It would have been acceptible if I had others who could help me run the club, but it was all down to me.

In the end the club now no longer exists. We ended up with only 3 members. Me included.

As the student,
I am very picky. As one who is working to enter the teaching profession, Teaching style is a large factor for me. I have looked at many places. I have some specific interest in particualar styles, but what matters is if I think its a good learning environment. I have great respect for those who are masters of their art, but I am not in to all the bowing, soluting, and calling out "Sir!" stuff. Some could easily view me as the casual student when I am realy not...

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by dearnis.com
I tend to lose them quickly. Since I am not dependant on them for income I have no urge to cater to them.


I agree with this.


Our School will tell them that if they do not wish to show up regularly and on time then maybe they should look elsewhere for training.

Of course emergencies and life happens, yet, if it happens all the time then . . .


:asian:

[chufeng]

As a teacher, since I don't charge anything...the students I have are fairly regular...

When I was learning from my Sifu in Iowa, he paid for my entrance into many seminars (Icouldn't afford the seminar fee) BECAUSE I was a serious student...he said that my admission was paid for by the "casual students."

I explain what I expect from any student when they first start training with me...once they start falling short of our verbal agreement, I remind them...those who are still with me took the reminders seriously; the rest have gone...

:asian:
chufeng

[sweeper]

as a sudent, I think what is casual and what is not deppends on how hard you personaly train.I think to some people I would be a casual student, that doesn't mean I don't take my art seriously, but justI don't train as hard as some others. But also there are some who treat class much less serious than I do, in genneral I would prefer to be one of the lesser skilled students in a given setting simply because that means I will learn the most, so when someone falls behind in skill it bugs the heck out of me having to re-teach them stuff when we are suppoed to be moving on. My attitude regarding MA basicly came out of youth soccer, basicly if you don't show up on time and you don't bother to keep your skill from atrophying or don't put in 100% effort in class, than why bother showing up?

[yilisifu]

I have seen several casual students turn into serious students, but not many. However, the fact that it can happen encourages me to keep them aboard.

They often do not progress as rapidly as the more serious students, and I won't hold back the rest of the class for their sakes. If they can't keep up because they fail to put in training time at home, that's their problem and I let them know it.

I keep hoping that some of them will become more serious about their training and every now and then it happens...

[CHUNNER]

The nature of our club and the reputation we have in our town means that I don't get casual students or belt chasers.

My main problem is students coming along thinking that they want to train hard and realistically but when they experience it first hand they don't come back.

The other problem is that of the dedicated student with absolutely no ability whatsoever. I have one student who has been training with me for two and a half years and has just this month scrapes past his first belt. It seems like every week I have to go over grade one, day one stuff with him. This is extremely frustrating for me and he must feel like an idiot as new students continually pass him in grade and ability.
He is however as keen as mustard and a really nice guy. Do you have any of these 'NO HOPERS' and how do you handle them?

[theletch1]

I have seen several casual students turn into serious students, but not many. However, the fact that it can happen encourages me to keep them aboard.

The one student that did a 180 at our kwoon that stands out is the father of one of the kids there. This guy kept his white belt for over a year, showed up two or three times a month and gave the general attitude that he was only there to be able to say "yeah, I'm studying kenpo." When our kwoon left our old "franchise" and went to a more traditional/hardcore curriculum it really seemed to flip a switch for the guy and he won't miss a class now. He has become one of the most dedicated students I've ever had the pleasure of working with. I think in a lot of cases it is just that the curriculum is not interesting to the individual. Leaving our old association really brought the kwoon together and gave this student a more personal stake in everything.

The other problem is that of the dedicated student with absolutely no ability whatsoever. I have one student who has been training with me for two and a half years and has just this month scrapes past his first belt. It seems like every week I have to go over grade one, day one stuff with him. This is extremely frustrating for me and he must feel like an idiot as new students continually pass him in grade and ability.

We have one of these as well. The student body as a whole tends to try to help out with this one. Sifu gives him as much personal attention as he can justify without taking away from the rest of us and the rest of us try to pick up where that stops. It's actually a great way for me to learn to teach and seeing the guy in there busting his hump week after week and being able to stay motivated through the adversity tells me that he has at least a good grip on the "spirit" side of what we are doing.

respecfully,
theletch1:asian:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
I agree with this.


Our School will tell them that if they do not wish to show up regularly and on time then maybe they should look elsewhere for training.

Of course emergencies and life happens, yet, if it happens all the time then . . .


:asian:

I'd be willing to bet that a lot in my school think that I'm a "casual
student". But I can guaran-damn-tee ya that I work out more
than anyone under black in my school (one brown belt might
prove me wrong). My wife works nights, and we have a 1 year
old child. She works 3 nights per week, and sometimes, (like
this week) they fall on 3 of the 4 days my school is open.
Location, and her needing enough sleep prevent me from getting
a baby sitter. So when I put her to bed, I go to my garage and
workout. I do every tech I know, plus bag work. I'd be willing to
bet damned good money (if there was a way to prove it) that
a LARGE portion of my school learns ONLY at school. Yet I'm the
one carrying the label of "not dedicated" or "casual student",
when those close to me call me "obsessed". I personally feel that
it shows in my execution of techniques, and I think the
instructors see it. Being labeled this way weighs heavily on my
nerves! I'm not going anywhere, but I think that label can have
heavy consequences to some students, if it's placed on someone
without really knowing.

[theletch1]

Kirk,
Working on your own certainly doesn't make you a casual student in my book. I think the casual student that he was refering to was the one that keeps the same belt level for ever because the only time they work their material is on the few occasions they decide to show up to the kwoon and don't bother to work their material at home. Heck we have one or two that are at every class, go through the motions expecting to be promoted after they have a certain amount of time in rank... not gonna happen. If your execution shows that you are working on your art with everything you have then you couldn't be considered a "casual" student. Hey, there are very few of us that have kids that can put everything on hold to attend every class that's available. I'm one of the lucky ones that has a sifu who is willing to take the time to put the effort into training the entire family. Some one on here has a quote at the end of their posts that says "time will either promote you or expose you." Keep on keeping on and time will prove anyone that says you are a casual student wrong.

respectfully,
theletch1:asian:

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Kirk
I'd be willing to bet that a lot in my school think that I'm a "casual
student". But I can guaran-damn-tee ya that I work out more
than anyone under black in my school (one brown belt might
prove me wrong). My wife works nights, and we have a 1 year
old child. She works 3 nights per week, and sometimes, (like
this week) they fall on 3 of the 4 days my school is open.
Location, and her needing enough sleep prevent me from getting
a baby sitter. So when I put her to bed, I go to my garage and
workout. I do every tech I know, plus bag work. I'd be willing to
bet damned good money (if there was a way to prove it) that
a LARGE portion of my school learns ONLY at school. Yet I'm the
one carrying the label of "not dedicated" or "casual student",
when those close to me call me "obsessed". I personally feel that
it shows in my execution of techniques, and I think the
instructors see it. Being labeled this way weighs heavily on my
nerves! I'm not going anywhere, but I think that label can have
heavy consequences to some students, if it's placed on someone
without really knowing.


Hey Kirk CHILL! :D

I casual student only shows up sometimes and does not practice at home. They only practice when they show up. My Definition. So, if you see someone trying and or improving then these are good signs, and I am happy to have them in our school.

Is for Labels, I was the Brain geek, that hung out with teh Jocks and Played sports with them out of season, I was also the guy that could go down to the Auto shop and help my friend work on my car. I was also the . . .

I hate labels like that, yet I understood the intent of the original question. How do other instructors handle casual students. For you see if the casual student who never practices at home cannot get by the first two moves of the first form after 3 to 4 months and you personally as the instructor have given precious class time to just this student (* Read private *) while others teach the main class, and there is no improvement and you can see they really do not care and that they are not practicing at home.

And yes, Kirk, since I do not own a professional school many would say I am a casual instructor. That may be so, yet we hold classes, I give privates and take privates as well as train with my equals and seniors. So yes your comment about perceptions could be an issue. Yet no matter what you do, someone somewhere will think something bad about you.

Have a nice Day :)
:asian:

[tarabos]

Originally posted by theletch1
Kirk,
Working on your own certainly doesn't make you a casual student in my book. I think the casual student that he was refering to was the one that keeps the same belt level for ever because the only time they work their material is on the few occasions they decide to show up to the kwoon and don't bother to work their material at home. Heck we have one or two that are at every class, go through the motions expecting to be promoted after they have a certain amount of time in rank... not gonna happen. If your execution shows that you are working on your art with everything you have then you couldn't be considered a "casual" student. Hey, there are very few of us that have kids that can put everything on hold to attend every class that's available. I'm one of the lucky ones that has a sifu who is willing to take the time to put the effort into training the entire family. Some one on here has a quote at the end of their posts that says "time will either promote you or expose you." Keep on keeping on and time will prove anyone that says you are a casual student wrong.

respectfully,
theletch1:asian:

when i use the term "casual," it doesn't specifically mean by belt level. myself, i have seen casual students that DO move up in rank. not neccessarily at my own school, but at a lot of seminars. then there are the casuals that just lose interest very quickly and drop out, which is what seems to be the majority here.

there have been students in my school in the past the take private lessons that would be considered casual, that have black belts. it's a shame to say it, but it happens, and they do help the school flourish i would say since they are not directly hindering the other students because they are working on their own with the instructor.

another fairly unique casual student that we have up at our school is one that takes his son with him to class so they have something to do together. he is very un-coordinated and generally non-atheletic, but the catch is that his son has down-syndrome. we do not put a whole lot of pressure on them for obvious reasons, but we still do our best to do them justice when we instruct them. will they reach black belt? it's very doubtful. however they have been awarded blue belts, honorary as they may be in a sense. they may not be what you or i would call a real blue belt in kenpo karate, but they don't mind and neither to we. sometimes there are certain cases when you make comprimises. this i think is one of them.

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
I casual student only shows up sometimes and does not practice at home. They only practice when they show up.

right...there are many different definitions of what is casual and what is not. time is often a factor for people...perhaps the biggest one next to money, and they will have to go to work, go home and eat or maybe not even go home, and then go to their school to train. so by the time they get out of class, they day is pretty much gone and there's no time left for anything else really.

so if someone just doens't have the time to work out at home a lot, but they still work their ass off in class or whenever they do workout, then i would not consider them casual. basically as long as you put a heartfelt effort into you training and really strive to learn the physical and the mental side of things then you would not be considered casual in my book.

[tarabos]

being that i am not the head instructor at my school, i have no real final say on who is to be promoted and when. it's not my place.

are there some students that get promoted who i feel aren't ready. yes. but again, i don't feel it is my place to question. so for the assistant instructor things can be a bit different you see. there are other factors that come into play like the one i just mentioned. a little food for thought.

[theletch1]

Just a little bit off subject (yes, i read the thread about drifting, and I'll apologize now), but the time restrictions are indeed a big one. I have found that taking time just to visualize a technique in as close to microscopic vision as possible then run through it at speed in real time helps alot when I don't have time to actually, physically train. I drive about 450 miles a night so there is lots of time to do this. And Kirk, you're not the only one accused of being obsessed:D but I can live with that.

As for how the instructors deal with the casual student, I'm not qualified to give any input to that but am very interested in what my senior practitioners here have to say as I very much want to gain the proficiency in my art to instruct it.

respectfully,
theletch1:asian:

[TKDman]

Originally posted by tarabos

what i'm speaking of here is the person that comes into a school/dojo/dojang/etc...and is there just to get some excersise, to meet some new people perhaps, or of course to be the infamous "belt hunter."



Belt Hunter, lmao thats good.

[tarabos]

Originally posted by TKDman
Belt Hunter, lmao thats good.

someone call the "Belt Hunter"??


http://www.tarabos.com/belthunter.jpg

"G'day! Steve Iriwn here! i just was crawling around at the local mcdojo...and look what i've come across...!

the ever popular Asian World martial arts belt! look at the colors on these beauties! red, yellow, orange purple....GORGEOUS!

why if i sign up then i should be able to get all these belts in less than two years! CRIKEY!"



ok...that's enough out of old steve'o...back to the topic at hand...

[tarabos]

Originally posted by theletch1
As for how the instructors deal with the casual student, I'm not qualified to give any input to that but am very interested in what my senior practitioners here have to say as I very much want to gain the proficiency in my art to instruct it.

ah yes...but i want to hear from students as well as instructors on the matter. after all, we're all going to be students as long as we're in the martial arts. what's it like training with a casual student? do you find it difficult? are their some advantages to working with someone who may not be as proficient or serious as you in your art? perhaps there is...perhaps they react much differently than someone who is not into the MA's as you are. they react more "naturally" to an attack or being hit, they react like someone without much training...or none at all.

this thread isn't just for instructors...:)

[Kirk]

Originally posted by tarabos
someone call the "Belt Hunter"??


http://www.tarabos.com/belthunter.jpg

"G'day! Steve Iriwn here! i just was crawling around at the local mcdojo...and look what i've come across...!

the ever popular Asian World martial arts belt! look at the colors on these beauties! red, yellow, orange purple....GORGEOUS!

why if i sign up then i should be able to get all these belts in less than two years! CRIKEY!"



ok...that's enough out of old steve'o...back to the topic at hand...


Beautiful comedy!!

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Kirk
Beautiful comedy!!

but at what cost...:D ?

i may have single handedly ruined my own thread...:eek: :eek: :D

[dearnis.com]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Jill666]

Regarding the casual student-

There are a few teens in my dojo (it's commercial) and I see them showing up 5 min. late every night because they rush from soccer practice. They don't practice on their own and it shows. They hold the same rank they did thwo years ago, and if the material is over their heads, then the instructor will not hold the class back. I've heard him talking to the parents in question, telling them why Johnny isn't in the advanced classes yet.

The adult casual students don't last long-

But there is one man in my class who comes in when he can but he's a far cry from the casual student. He's 22, working full time, raising his 7 yo son by himself. Sometimes he doesn't make the class, sometimes he brings his son with him (the boy falls asleep on a bench inside and when class ends at 9:30pm Carlos picks his sleeping child up & my training partner gives them a ride home). But he practices every day, and it shows. He will be testing for his 2nd dan in the summer. To the outside observer, he may look casual as he comes in when he can, child in tow, until he shows his stuff.

I'm actually quite interested in chunner's post about the no-hoper, it seems there must be some aspect of the art that he may do well in, then perhaps a light-bulb will go on in his head, allowing other aspects of his work to improve.

Just a thought from someone who has never taught.

[tarabos]

i've been exposed to a few "no-hopers" myself, and while it seems impossible that a person wouldn't be able to catch on to at least one aspect of the art, be it the mental, physical or even spiritual side, it does happen. it's tough to know where to go with them when you realize that there isn't much progress that's going to be made.

the people mentioned that come in on a limited basis, but are still quite good, it just goes to show that some just have a real knack for this stuff and take to it really easily.

[Old Warrior]

Never stand in judgment of anyone. As long as your rules are followed and respect accorded to the teachers, anyone who shows up and tries - counts and should be welcome. I have watched students with physical limitations, who have little skill and are unlikely to get better, routinely show up and try their best (while they are there). The fact that they don't practice at home and aren't getting significantly better is of no import. There is room for all types of students as long as they conform.

Having said the above, it is also the right of each school to demand a certain level of interest and reject all those who do not conform. But, I would rather have an active school with students of all kinds of motivations, who go out into the community and speak well of the art and its devotees. The martial arts need not be the centerpiece of your life for it to have meaning to you and for you to be able to enjoy the benefits it accords.

[sweeper]

well I think to some degree it also depends on the instruction, my class is VERY casual, most students do come late or on random days because they work, and some realy don't try hard, it just bugs me when someone doesn't try and it holds others back, I realy don't think that's an unjust concern.

jill666 personaly I wouldn't mind the teens as much, if you have other obligations than you have other obligations. I mean deppending on their age they quite posably work (to some degree) they are probably in school so they have homework, and in a sence they are still kids so you can't realy expect them to drop all social interaction, throw in MA and soccer and their time is gona be shot. I wouldn't mind to much as long as they don't get in the way, and it sounds like your instructor took care of that :)

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
Never stand in judgment of anyone. As long as your rules are followed and respect accorded to the teachers, anyone who shows up and tries - counts and should be welcome. I have watched students with physical limitations, who have little skill and are unlikely to get better, routinely show up and try their best (while they are there). The fact that they don't practice at home and aren't getting significantly better is of no import. There is room for all types of students as long as they conform.

Having said the above, it is also the right of each school to demand a certain level of interest and reject all those who do not conform. But, I would rather have an active school with students of all kinds of motivations, who go out into the community and speak well of the art and its devotees. The martial arts need not be the centerpiece of your life for it to have meaning to you and for you to be able to enjoy the benefits it accords.


Since this is any open forum and people can post, I guess your post will be accepted in this thread. Even though it might not conform by stating that everyone else's posts are annoying.
:rolleyes: :shrug:

Now, I have worked and trained with students who are blind, have MS, or other issues that might limit there growth rate. Yet, you can see that in class they are serious and hence not casual.

So, I guess since you do not conform to my standards of posting you should not be allowed to post here? The answer is NO WAY! You have just as much right as anyone else to post.

We have a thread about people being upset about frivolous posts.

We have a thread and people who are upset about a convicted criminal.

We have thread from THE Administrator about feedback, to see if some of the grumblings were serious or limited in scope.

Just my opinion, if you disagree say so. Do not get personal. This is how the threads escalate and then people are left wondering "What Started this? And it could be just as easy the word Annoying.


Oh BTW Have a Nice Day. :) I will try to also, and hopefully Tomorrow I will get through customs and back home to the USA. :asian:

[RCastillo]

Many of mine have been casual. They don't stay past yellow, it seems. They don't seek me out for more work/help.(As I have asked to do when needed)

I even had a to ask a Black Belt from another style to leave because all she wanted was to workout, pick up some stuff, and not get involved into the system.

I've worked too hard all these years to be a casual Tae Bo type instructor.

[tarabos]

Regarding: "this thread is annoying"

i don't mind that anyone finds the thread annoying. we're all entitled to our opinion. and Old Warrior still gave some constructive input with his "annoying" statement...it's almost as if he missed the point and completely got the point all at the same time.

if all he said was "this stupid thread is annoying," then well...i might not be able to consider that constructive :D. but he backed up his statement, so to each his own opinion...:asian:

unless he was speaking of the "belt hunter" bit...that was funny and annyoing so i'll give him that one...:D

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Jill666
There are a few teens in my dojo (it's commercial) and I see them showing up 5 min. late every night because they rush from soccer practice.


hey! i used to roll in a bit late from soccer practice when i was in high school!:D



[/B]They don't practice on their own and it shows. They hold the same rank they did two years ago, and if the material is over their heads, then the instructor will not hold the class back. I've heard him talking to the parents in question, telling them why Johnny isn't in the advanced classes yet.[/B]

that sounds pretty casual to me, or just lazy :). when i was playing soccer it would take up a lot of my time in the martial arts, but i was still getting some great excersise as well as fantastic cardio conditioning. i never expected to come back and be able to pick up where i left off though, and my instructor never entertained that thought either. but i'm still there today and it's my main focus now as it has been for many years (and always was when soccer season was over).

the "parents" issue is another one that would be good in a separate thread. actually it probably has been addressed in a thread before. still, it's a hurdle in the MA business that has to be dealt with from time to time, and in a way it does tie in to a student not giving it their all in class or outside. perhaps they don't want to be there in the first place and that is why they seem casual.

[Old Warrior]

I did not speak disrespectfully to anyone, but addressed my comment to the subject of the thread. In no way can it be said that I sought to silence anyone. However, the idea that one cannot or should not pursue the martial arts "casually" is troublesome to me and I find it annoying that there are people who take themselves so seriously that they would exclude all who are not like minded from the benefit of their knowledge.

For the most part, as Americans, our lives are not in danger every day. I am 54 and I can state with certainty that I have not used any of my martial arts training to actually defend my life. While the subject matter is serious and I have always taken it as such, there is a place in the pursuit for those who have a passing interest. And, there will always be a few who after a casual exposure, will seek in depth knowledge. There is no reason to exclude those who are only slightly interested. Everyone who conforms to the requisite discipline should be welcome. Anyone who disagrees, in my opinion, needs an attitude adjustment.

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
I did not speak disrespectfully to anyone, but addressed my comment to the subject of the thread. In no way can it be said that I sought to silence anyone. However, the idea that one cannot or should not pursue the martial arts "casually" is troublesome to me and I find it annoying that there are people who take themselves so seriously that they would exclude all who are not like minded from the benefit of their knowledge.

For the most part, as Americans, our lives are not in danger every day. I am 54 and I can state with certainty that I have not used any of my martial arts training to actually defend my life. While the subject matter is serious and I have always taken it as such, there is a place in the pursuit for those who have a passing interest. And, there will always be a few who after a casual exposure, will seek in depth knowledge. There is no reason to exclude those who are only slightly interested. Everyone who conforms to the requisite discipline should be welcome. Anyone who disagrees, in my opinion, needs an attitude adjustment.

I agree. This is pointless. From day 1 till the end of time, there will always be casual students whose priority in life is not the same as yours. This is like asking if it matters to you if other students at your colleges or high school do their homework or not. LOL! WHo cares!

The hardcore will find other hardcore to train and socialize with. The casual will go on with their lives. That is the way things have being and will be till the end of time.

You can have your own school where only serious students may enroll. That is your perogative.

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
I agree. This is pointless.

perhaps it is, but is there any real point to discussing anything on the internet besides getting people to have a conversation? especially a forum like this.

so the way i see it, discussion is the point...expressing opinions and views and of course just shooting the breeze at times on subjects that might not be so "deep."

no one on this thread should have been attacked for stating his or her views and to this point i don't think anyone has really...i think we've all seen worse. but now i'm going off topic so i'll just stop there.

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Old Warrior
I did not speak disrespectfully to anyone, but addressed my comment to the subject of the thread.

agreed...let's move on.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by tarabos
but now i'm going off topic so i'll just stop there.

hehe.....my subliminal messaging is working on everybody!

:rofl:

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
hehe.....my subliminal messaging is working on everybody!

:rofl:

as long as you don't make me wake up one day with a strange desire to leap in front of a car you can do all the subliminal messaging you want....:D

[Rich Parsons]

Casual Students who do not try can take time away from the serious students. If you make a living on your club then you may want as many students as you can fill in the room. If you do not care about the money or do not wish to waste every other student's time by going over the same technique for the last three week AGAIN, well then move on. Yet, the student could feel left out and then want to leave.

Hence this discussion how do you keep the students interested and in the class. How do you get rid of a problem if it is a problem.

Oh Yeah JN et al, Life is pointless. Why do you even bother to post here? You get up in the morning then you may eat and then you spend you trivial day in depression and then you may go to sleep, or just lay there waiting for the next day.

So, Tarabos did not take offense. Old Warrior replied and said he did not mean to make anyone quiet by his post. Yet there are newbies who may not post to avoid being drawn into conflict, until they know more. So your intent may have been ok, yet your impact may not have been. Yet this post is pointless for everyone will do what they will do any ways? We have absolutly no impact on each other here on the planet. Yep it is pointless.

Back to building cars, filling out reports on quality and making sure the build process improves, Yet why bother since it is all pointless.

:asian:

I look forward to everyone's posts. Even those I disagree with. For you see those are the ones I might learn the most from.

Just my opinion.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by tarabos
as long as you don't make me wake up one day with a strange desire to leap in front of a car you can do all the subliminal messaging you want....:D

Nah, I've got that saved for someone else :rolleyes:

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by tarabos
[B]perhaps it is, but is there any real point to discussing anything on the internet besides getting people to have a conversation? especially a forum like this.


Are you saying in this forum, there is no real point other than to get a conversation going?

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Are you saying in this forum, there is no real point other than to get a conversation going?

90% of the time yes. it's a discussion forum. people may ask about getting answers to questions they've been thinking about or post the ocassional poll or joke or whatever, but in the end it's all still conversation to me (to ME, not speaking for everyone). what you take from the conversation is what you take, a new understanding of something, a new friend, a new enemy perhaps....but that's all dependent on the person.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Are you saying in this forum, there is no real point other than to get a conversation going?

What's your take on it?

[Johnathan Napalm]

My take? Pointless thread makes for pointless idle chitchat. Meaningful thread is enlightening and enriching, ie, you learn something that enriches your life and enlighten you.

Some people enjoy idle chitchat over colors of their shoes, etc. Fine with me. This isn't my forum to dictate what quality it should be.

[arnisador]

We prefer that chitchat take place in The Locker Room (or on chat). We prefer that the arts fora contain substantive martial arts discussion (information or debates)--not only because we think people in those fora are looking for such information and discussions but also because we want them to be valuable in conjunction with the Search option.

There is however a tension. Enforcing topicality and seriousness can easily stifle conversation, and that isn't desirable. When the forum was smaller we watched a higher percentage of the threads and "nudged" them back on track as necessary. This is no longer feasible, unfortunately.

As always, we invite feedback. Would stricter enforcement of topicality be desirable to members, or would it be too restrictive? If anyone wishes to answer, it might be best to start another thread.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

[Kirk]

Originally posted by arnisador
We prefer that chitchat take place in The Locker Room (or on chat). We prefer that the arts fora contain substantive martial arts discussion (information or debates)--not only because we think people in those fora are looking for such information and discussions but also because we want them to be valuable in conjunction with the Search option.

There is however a tension. Enforcing topicality and seriousness can easily stifle conversation, and that isn't desirable. When the forum was smaller we watched a higher percentage of the threads and "nudged" them back on track as necessary. This is no longer feasible, unfortunately.

As always, we invite feedback. Would stricter enforcement of topicality be desirable to members, or would it be too restrictive? If anyone wishes to answer, it might be best to start another thread.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

But chit chat aside, does this thread belong in the locker room?

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk
But chit chat aside, does this thread belong in the locker room?

I feel the original post was quite appropriate for this forum.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

[dearnis.com]

Back on topic (maybe).....
I have had a few near-hopeless students. BUT they always gave the best they could; if they are going to put forth the effort then as a teacher I owe them my best effort.
But, someone who is just hanging out, disrupting class, and preventing another student from learning is in effect stealing time from that person, or from the class as a whole. like I said, I don't tend to keep them around.

[tarabos]

i don't know what it's like to actually ask someone to leave a school. i've seen my instructor do it several times and it's never a pleasant thing. that alone is probably the worst thing about running a school if i had to take a guess. but if a student acts so childishly or unpleasantly that it warrants them being removed from a school they probably deserve what they get.

[theletch1]

I didn't get the feeling that the original intention of the thread was dealing with "excluding" anyone from training, rather, how best to incorporate individuals into the training group that have dedication levels that go from one end of the spectrum to the other.

As for training with those who are considered the casual student, like every thing else it has it's ups and downs. I do tend to be able to get a more realistic reaction out of them, although quite often punches are thrown to the side of my head instead of at my face (afraid of actually contacting me, but hey, I can't really afford to get any uglier from extra punches to the face) but I tend to get frustrated at the feeling of having to walk my training partner through techniques several times after the sifu explains it before we can actually execute the move.

respectfully,
theletch1:asian:

[dearnis.com]

good points; let me clarify..
I know people have lives, obligations, &c. I expect people to come when they can, to practice some on their own, and to try their best in class. I expect the students to be team players, and I expect the seniors to help the newbies/hard learners.
What I am not interested in is the social martial artist, or the talker. If someone wants to train fine. If they want to waste my limited class time....sorry.

[GaryM]

My feelings are that a black belt is a teaching certificate, so part of earning one is learning how to teach. Also dummies(ukes, warm bodys) are valeuable so I don't really mind the 'casual' long term student. I consider them training aids for the serious students. Also the dedicated students have a 'yardstick' to measure thier own progress against,somewhat.

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons .....Oh Yeah JN et al, Life is pointless. Why do you even bother to post here? You get up in the morning then you may eat and then you spend you trivial day in depression and then you may go to sleep, or just lay there waiting for the next day....

I missed this garbage earlier. But in due defference to one of the mods, I will not respond in kind. I suggest you do not break the rules again. Unless I address you directly, do not bother to reply to my post.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
I missed this garbage earlier. But in due difference to one of the mods, I will not respond in kind. I suggest you do not break the rules again. Unless I address you directly, do not bother to reply to my post.

Can you feel the love :rolleyes:

[Johnathan Napalm]

lol It is called "respond in kind, steathly". ;)

[Jill666]

I couldn't tell.

:rofl:

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
lol It is called "respond in kind, steathly". ;)


Yes, Sir, I have replied like you previously, yet it always pointless to carry on a discourse with you. For you see it all as pointless.

Enjoy youring posting herem you will not control how or where I post. I will comply to the rules, as long as others are. If they step over and continue to just bend them and seem to be a continuous problem. Then I say so.

Just my thoughts and opinions, as you express yours, so then will I.

[Johnathan Napalm]

If you insist on starting a flame war, that is your problem.

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Jill666
I couldn't tell.

:rofl:

LMAO. Hey, it could be worse! At least I made no reference to him as a person. :D

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
If you insist on starting a flame war, that is your problem.


It is pointless, to have a flame war. It all depends on what you can do on the streets.

So have a nice day! I will ! :)

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
LMAO. Hey, it could be worse! At least I made no reference to him as a person. :D

True, you did mention or make a reference to me, yet you have other times of me and others.

Yet It really is pointless, to state facts, since it does not matter.
I will do what I will do, and you, ... , well :confused:



Have A nice day! I will :)