Why do students leave?

[GouRonin]

From another thread.

Just curious as to why people think that students leave where they are at and go to new schools/teachers/arts?

[Cthulhu]

Since I trained on a U.S.A.F. base, it was because people had to leave.

Cthulhu

[Cryozombie]

WHen I was a Student of Hapkido, after 2 years, I didn't feel I was "Getting It" and after one particularly bad rank test where I felt like I didn't know the material I was being tested on, and I had to take time to think about the techniques before I executed them, I realized that if It was a fight I would have already lost.

Much to my supprise I still "earned" the belt, and I decided that Hapkido was probably not for me. So I moved on.

I would still be with my Original Bujinkan Instructor had he not moved away...

[James Kovacich]

My first 2 schools closed down, the 3rd, I had a monkey on my back. Later my brother-in-law, "ran me off" so to speak. Later My Sifu asked me to quit another art.

1) school financial
2) partying
3) family issues
4) Sifu did not like other arts

[tarabos]

i vote for all of them since i've witnessed each one first hand.

[pesilat]

Generally, it's because the student, for one reason or another, isn't enjoying the training or they're not getting what they're looking for (which may or may not be the same as what they claim they to be looking for in MA).

1. Money - School costs? - if someone really thinks it's worthwhile and what they want to train, then they'll find a way around this (all the worthwhile instructors I've ever met will work with students on this problem)

2. Instructors/Students - relationship problems? - the student ends up not enjoying the training because of the relationship problems.

3. Better schedules? - this is a possibility but, usually, if it's what the student really wants, he/she can make priority changes and manage the schedule (not always possible, of course, but more often than not)

4. Interest in other arts? - if the student completely leaves the school because of this, then it probably means they weren't getting what theywanted in the school

5. My school only had ugly babes! - again, not getting what they want out of the training ;)

Like I said, it generally boils down to the student not enjoying training for one reason or another.

This is why, when newbies ask what they should train in, I tell them, "It doesn't matter. Find an instructor and class you enjoy. Because if you don't enjoy it, you won't stick around anyway. After you get some experience and training under your belt, then you can look around to see if there's another system/art that you might be more interested in."

Mike

[fist of fury]

From what I've seen people don't realize how much hard work you have to put into it. Once they see it takes dedication they seem to give up many people aren't willing to put in the extra work out of the classroom. Which is what it takes to really get good at M.A. they want thier skill handed to them they don't want to work for it.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by pesilat
Because if you don't enjoy it, you won't stick around anyway. After you get some experience and training under your belt, then you can look around to see if there's another system/art that you might be more interested in."


That's what it boils down to in my book. It's like my instructor
says, "everyone wants to know martial arts, but not
everyone wants to put in what it takes to gain that knowledge".

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Kirk
That's what it boils down to in my book. It's like my instructor
says, "everyone wants to know martial arts, but not
everyone wants to put in what it takes to gain that knowledge".

Exactly. A lot of people claim to want the benefits, but what they really expect is to take a pill and become Bruce Lee.

A lot of people claim to want to learn how to fight. But they don't want to suffer any pain along the way or experience any contact. What they really want (and where they usually end up, if not completely out of MA) is aerobic kickboxing.

This is why I have a belief that everyone, in the long run, ends up with the art/system/style/school/instructor that they deserve. People may have false starts and it may take them years to really find where they belong. But I think that, in the long run, everyone does find where they deserve to be (even if it's out of the MA all together).

They earn their place.

They "reap what they sow."

However you want to phrase it, I believe it's true more often than not.

Mike

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Kirk
That's what it boils down to in my book. It's like my instructor
says, "everyone wants to know martial arts, but not
everyone wants to put in what it takes to gain that knowledge".

My sentiments exactly, lazy turds.:mad:

[MartialArtsGuy]

Two times during my training,(so far) things popped up in life that caused serious financial/time demands, and i had to take an unfortunate break. Both times my teacher told me to stay and train for free untill my situation got better. I could not do that to him, and returned only when things got straightend out.

I think the biggest reason students leave is because they are not that serious in the first place, and were just trying something new.

you know the type who have monday and thursday bowling nights, and tuesday and saturday karate class. That is the biggest reason in my humble opinion. Atleast thats what i have noticed. :asian:

[Rich Parsons]

Gou,


I have seen people leave for a lot of reasons.

Some for money!

Some for personal reasons/ Boy friend/girlfriend either in or out of class.

Some for EGO, they think they have it all and go else where. ON ther way to creating their own Unique art.

Some for Instructor reasons as in they have learned everything and are the same rank and go else where to continue.


Some leave because Art XYZ is not what they are looking for it is Linear and Hard, and they go find ABC art which is Circular, or vice versa.


Just my thoughts, I am sure most others have expressed ideas very similar if not the exact.

Best Regards

[karatekid1975]

Since I just quit my dojang, here's why I quit.

1) They charged way too much.

2) I'm in martial arts for self defense, not sport. They lacked in the self defense department big time. I'm not bashing those who like the sport end of it, but it's just not for me.

3) I don't like the "keep it simple stupid" thing. I got bored months ago.

4) they pick people to teach that have no experience and no technique.

5) they didn't allow cross-training or they didn't allow us to attend tournies outside the school's tournies. That's bulls**t. Who are they to try to control my life outside of the dojang?

There's other things, but I won't get into those.

I hope they f**king read this! :mad: :p

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by karatekid1975
Since I just quit my dojang, here's why I quit.

1) They charged way too much.

2) I'm in martial arts for self defense, not sport. They lacked in the self defense department big time. I'm not bashing those who like the sport end of it, but it's just not for me.

3) I don't like the "keep it simple stupid" thing. I got bored months ago.

4) they pick people to teach that have no experience and no technique.

5) they didn't allow cross-training or they didn't allow us to attend tournies outside the school's tournies. That's bulls**t. Who are they to try to control my life outside of the dojang?

There's other things, but I won't get into those.

I hope they f**king read this! :mad: :p

Laurie,

I am sorry to hear about this.

Keep hope, you will find the right school
:)

[GouRonin]

Rich does teach co-ed naked stickwork. Maybe she should see if he's the new teacher for her?
:rolleyes:

[Jill666]

My instructor likes cross-training- if he knows and likes the other instructor and they agree with him. He encourages cross-training in the sense that he brings a friendly party into his school and they teach a seminar there for us.

But oh man- does he NOT like cross-training if we go out and find it for ourselves! I don't know what he's afraid of but I don't care- that's his problem. He knows I attend other schools and doesn't approve- well its my life and money and he's not my dad- I don't really give a $h!t if he approves.

But this kind of mcdojo narrow mindset I think is what causes many GOOD and experienced students to leave. In the lower kyu I think it's more the other reasons.

I have seen good students suspend training for money or priority reasons (baby in the hospital, laid off and can't pay fees) and then return when their life allows.

[tshadowchaser]

Most leeave my school because they find I don"t give rank away.
"It hurts to do push ups, I can't do sit ups, I'm not learning anything new."
I find that to many people want to say they know a martial art but don't want to get hit or sweat.

[karatekid1975]

Hey, Gou. Where do I sign up for the naked stick fighting thing???? :rolleyes: :shrug:

Anyways, I totally agree Jill.

Tshadow, that's why most people guit, but it wasn't mine. I don't mind push-ups, or getting hit. My thing is, there wasn't enough self defense training, and they "claimed" there was. They promised change (as in adding more), but never happened. If someone was in it for sport, it's a good place to train, but it's not for me.

The master instructor thinks his art (hybrid style of WTF TKD) was the s**t. It's not. If it was, then why are some students cross training without him knowing????? Or leaving?

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by Jill666
My instructor likes cross-training- if he knows and likes the other instructor and they agree with him. He encourages cross-training in the sense that he brings a friendly party into his school and they teach a seminar there for us.

But oh man- does he NOT like cross-training if we go out and find it for ourselves! I don't know what he's afraid of but I don't care- that's his problem. He knows I attend other schools and doesn't approve- well its my life and money and he's not my dad- I don't really give a $h!t if he approves.

But this kind of mcdojo narrow mindset I think is what causes many GOOD and experienced students to leave. In the lower kyu I think it's more the other reasons.

I have seen good students suspend training for money or priority reasons (baby in the hospital, laid off and can't pay fees) and then return when their life allows.

Well said! I agree!

[Shinzu]

i think it can be a combiation of things. for me it was the money i was paying and the instruction i wasn't getting. to me it just didn't add up.

i think most studends are very influenced by their instructors. they will sometimes be lead by the blind. but for those who see the whole picture it is different.

my first school i left was beacause of the money although the training was top notch. sometimes it is unavoidable.

[Rob_Broad]

It is a given 90% of all students quit in the first 90 days. The reasons are numerous, it may interfere with whatever else they want to do, family commitments, it wasn't what they thought it would be, and yes no hot women in the school.

The question I wonder about is what made the ones who stayed stay.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad
It is a given 90% of all students quit in the first 90 days. The reasons are numerous, it may interfere with whatever else they want to do, family commitments, it wasn't what they thought it would be, and yes no hot women in the school.

The question I wonder about is what made the ones who stayed stay.


Rob,

Maybe it was a poor assumption by me, yet I assumed that we were discussion the long(er) time student. Meanng one who had stuck for a while and a few belts. Showed some dedication and then . . .


:asian:

[muayThaiPerson]

I say students who leave in the first 3 months is because they give up, they dont understand practice makes perfect. Money is also an issue, average cost is 80$/month and we barely train becuase we have work and/or school. Theres lots of reasons for leaving but those are common ones

[yilisifu]

I would say that the main reason newer students quit is because it isn't what they expected; it's tough training and they have to sweat clear into their socks.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by fist of fury
From what I've seen people don't realize how much hard work you have to put into it. Once they see it takes dedication they seem to give up many people aren't willing to put in the extra work out of the classroom. Which is what it takes to really get good at M.A. they want thier skill handed to them they don't want to work for it.

I believe the monetary issue plays a role in why students give up training in the MAs, but,
more importantly I agree with fist that training in the MAs is really hard work if you practice at a good school. Once some students realize what they signed up for, they decide its better to opt out then put in the strenuous, sweaty labor that's required.
I've seen it personally numerous times since I've been training in the MAs... :asian:

[CrushingFist]

I would say

Money - School costs
Instructors/Students - relationship problems
Better schedules
Interest in other arts

those are my opinions, if you go to a martial art school for babes? thats the wrong idea, and if you quiet because there was no babes, then you shouldn't even be takin martial arts, cuz martial arts is not about the babes, martial arts is for ur protection of life basically. it helps protection in many ways (self-defense, defend others, teach others, health, mature mind if you are taught by a good teacher) etc...:asian:

[Kenpo Yahoo]

What about advanced rank students? Why do they choose to leave after so long? I left my first instructor several months after I got my 1st degree black. Does that make me a quitter? Or does that mean I was only concerned with rank? NO!

I'm still in the same association under a different instructor (I didn't move to a different city either). Does that make me a traitor or a turncoat? I don't know. I simply didn't agree with certain things that were going on at my old school, and that is why it is now exactly what it is...... my old school.

[chufeng]

It's the Ed Gruberman syndrome...

"Why do I have to stand in this silly stance for 3 minutes?"
"When do get to do the Bruce Lee side kick?"
"Are you going to show me the real stuff anytime soon? What do you mean this IS the real stuff?!!!"

:asian:
chufeng

[chufeng]

As far as why senior students leave...that has more to do with politics...I don't like politics and have lost many a YiLi brother to the whims of the "newly promoted black belt syndrome;" those who all of a sudden decided that the teacher didn't know enough, or those who thought their way of teaching would be better...

They didn't last long after they left.

Others simply don't set a goal beyond that first black belt promotion..."OK, what's next??? Oh crap...I guess I'm done..."

:asian:
chufeng

[SRyuFighter]

I think the reasons why students leave is because they don't walk into the school and become Bruce Lee in a day. They realize that they have to stick it out for years to become great and they dont have the dedication necessary to do so.

[RyuShiKan]

I think most people have a goal when they start any art and that is to get a black belt in it.
Once that goal is accomplished many figure they have “got it” and leave.
If you look at the Japanese word for black belt “sho dan” it means first level………or beginning…….not the end.

Most of my students quit because they don’t like the amount of contact we do. That might sound macho on my part but it’s not meant to be since it really isn’t that hard.
Yiliquan1 trained with me and didn’t have any problem with it.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
I think most people have a goal when they start any art and that is to get a black belt in it.
Once that goal is accomplished many figure they have “got it” and leave.
If you look at the Japanese word for black belt “sho dan” it means first level………or beginning…….not the end.


Yeah! What you said!! I've seen a lot of students just quit/drop out after they've earned their first dan/degree BLACK. In reality, first dan is really just the beginning of one's MA training... :asian:

[cali_tkdbruin]

Let me just add, that in my Art, first dan BLACK only signifies that you've mastered just the very basics of our Art... :asian:

[Zujitsuka]

I think that students mostly leave schools because they think that the "other system" is the thing to be doing. People always think the grass is greener on the other side, but the grass is green where you water the grass.

Peace,

[stacks]

I think that when people start they do not realize the amount of disipline (actually getting up and going to the dojo) that it is required to be a successful martial artist, they want that belt but do not want to work for it. Like the guy at work who does the least amount of work in the most amount of time (wants that pay check but doesn't want to work for it). then there is the cost of being a student, however they should have thought that out before the signed up. then again the martial arts is not for everybody, some people may be doing some soul searching and thought thay would enjoy it and found it is not what they thought it would be (the wannabe). either way when they do quit is really is a loss for them
:sadsong:

stacks :karate:

[membru]

hi and excuse me for "jump in"

i also leave a dojo, and a want to ask you something

martial arts = exercises and weapons skills ? i say no coz a lot of instructors in our days don't teach as well, responsibility and spirit of martial arts.. where, if anybody can tell me, you can learn about knowing yourself and others as well?
please don't tell me " this is not true, our teacher told us about, not to use our skills to do harm and etc "

what good to know how to punch, when you are not aware of the world around you? where is those exercises for your mind, spirit..? they said when you have 5 dan or over... ha ha.. poor them

for me martial arts it's all that my body can do to help me evolving, that include mind, spirit and body..


when a teacher, a good teacher (i would say skilled teacher) said to us when i'll give you the black belt, if you leave me for your own dojo, i will come and kick you in front of your students.. make me sick :(

hard to find a good teacher ! soo many and poor quality.. money and as many as black belts with dans continuing from his belt on his leg and a few meters back..

just my two cents.. :asian:

[Kempojujutsu]

I required several students from across the street from me. They used to study ATA tae kwon do. Their reason for quitting.

Being charge way to much for water down martial arts, was their main reason.
Every activity they had to pay some kind of fee.
The equipment they had to use could only be ATA equipment and they charged out the ass for it also.
They required contracts where you would be locked in for a year or two.
tournaments where also required.
The cross training they did sucked.
Bob:asian:

[moromoro]

i think students leave for a number of reasons

1 crap instruction, instructor only a basic instructor not a master of the style

2. techniques which look good under controlled training which the student finds that dont work in the street, non realism

3. the student wakes up

[moromoro]

also the student could leave for reasons out of his controll

i.e

personal, work related, stress

[pesilat]

Originally posted by moromoro
i think students leave for a number of reasons

1 crap instruction, instructor only a basic instructor not a master of the style

2. techniques which look good under controlled training which the student finds that dont work in the street, non realism

3. the student wakes up

Those are some, certainly. But it's not always due to bad instruction. It may also be that the student just isn't really interested in what that instructor is teaching ... even if it is legitimate and excellent.

Mike

[moromoro]

believe me mike and iam sure if you look at the yellow pages in your area and go take a look at some schools i guarantee you will find some very bad instructors (they dont know what really happens in a fight)....

iam sure there is at least one bad instructor in any city

thanks

terry

[moromoro]

your right mike the student usually has a lack of interest

also i have a question to you and others who have schools

in martail arts mags we now find businesses who guarantee that if you follow there program you will have double the amount of students and also have excellent retention of students.........

how does this work do you have any experience with it


thanks

terry

[RyuShiKan]

The only problem is most “newbees” don’t know what bad instruction is.
My good friend had a guy come to his dojo and told my friend that he could use a back flip in a real fight to escape a punch………..my friend said “OK, I’ll punch you and you do a back flip before I hit you”………….the guy was knocked on his butt by my friends punch…….I FELL on my butt from laughing so hard.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
your right mike the student usually has a lack of interest

also i have a question to you and others who have schools

in martail arts mags we now find businesses who guarantee that if you follow there program you will have double the amount of students and also have excellent retention of students.........

how does this work do you have any experience with it


thanks

terry

From what I have heard they are a scam and to be avoided.

[moromoro]

what happend to the guy did he end up learning with your friend??

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by moromoro
what happend to the guy did he end up learning with your friend??



He stayed for 1 class got some more "education" and then never returned. By the way the guy was talking and asking questions it seems he was more interested in rank.......quick rank to be exact.

[moromoro]

quick rank thats another thing some arts give ranks so fast, bujinkan beign one of them how about a 10th dan after only 10years of training...............

[pesilat]

Originally posted by moromoro
believe me mike and iam sure if you look at the yellow pages in your area and go take a look at some schools i guarantee you will find some very bad instructors (they dont know what really happens in a fight)....

iam sure there is at least one bad instructor in any city

thanks

terry

Absolutely. I guarantee it.

Just pointing out that poor instruction isn't the only reason students leave. :)

Mike

[pesilat]

Originally posted by moromoro
also i have a question to you and others who have schools

in martail arts mags we now find businesses who guarantee that if you follow there program you will have double the amount of students and also have excellent retention of students.........

how does this work do you have any experience with it


thanks

terry

Hmm ... general rule of thumb: "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" :)

I don't know if any of those things work or not. I've never had any experience with them nor has anyone I know.

Some of the "MA Businesss" things are reputable and I have heard of some good successes with groups like NAPMA and EFT. But from what I've heard (perhaps incorrectly), these just offer pointers on things that are usually successful at bringing in students (like kids programs and cardio programs). And they offer advice on student retention.

But there are no guarantees. And anyone offering a guarantee is probably a scam.

Mike

[pesilat]

Originally posted by moromoro
quick rank thats another thing some arts give ranks so fast, bujinkan beign one of them how about a 10th dan after only 10years of training...............

I don't know that all of Bujinkan does that. I'm sure there's some variance between schools.

But, also, Bujinkan uses, I believe, a 15 Dan structure. I don't know all the specifics.

But all the Bujinkan BBs that I've met in person are good martial artists. Of course, I've only met about 4 of them in person.

Mike

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by pesilat
I don't know that all of Bujinkan does that. I'm sure there's some variance between schools.

But, also, Bujinkan uses, I believe, a 15 Dan structure. I don't know all the specifics.

But all the Bujinkan BBs that I've met in person are good martial artists. Of course, I've only met about 4 of them in person.

Mike

My good friend of 18+ years got his shodan from Hatsumi here in Japan in less than 8 months.

[moromoro]

yes soke hatsumi has been known to give gradings, look at the amount of 14th dan american practitioners they out rank the japanese shihan who have been training twice as long as they have.......


thanks

terry

[SRyuFighter]

Originally posted by moromoro
quick rank thats another thing some arts give ranks so fast, bujinkan beign one of them how about a 10th dan after only 10years of training...............

Holy Frijolies your kidding! The 10th dan in my system started when he was 18 and is now 88. I think he was awarded his 10th degree 2 or so years ago. How do they get them in only 10 years?

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by SRyuFighter
Holy Frijolies your kidding! The 10th dan in my system started when he was 18 and is now 88. I think he was awarded his 10th degree 2 or so years ago. How do they get them in only 10 years?


"Will that be in Cash or Cheque?" :rolleyes:

[gman]

I would think most people lose interest. How many people join a gym and then only go for a couple months. Plus some probably don't really like the pain involved once they start getting some contact. Just like the almond growers, 'a bruise a week is all we ask'.

[Daishi]

Although I have seen students leave for every reason posted I think the biggst one, at least at my school, is student/instructor/instructor problems.

Here's an example.

Instructor 1 teaches everything completely wrong to the student and runs them through all the requirements for their next belt in a night.

Instructor 2 works with the same student the next day, is told that they know everything, and then the instructor begins to break everything down and teach it right.

At this point half the students either leave because they were in it for the belt anyway and don't want to be told they aren't at a decent level yet. The other half are totally confused because both of these people are instructors and ones teaching stuff completely differently. They then usually stick it out for a while but tire of the problems and also bolt.

In this case it's not the student so much as the instructors at the school. I sad, sad case.

[Shinzu]

students also tend to drop out when they reach that "mid point" in their training. they tend to get frustrated with not advancing fast enough. they have what i call "martial arts growing pains."

[moromoro]

The 10th dan in my system started when he was 18 and is now 88. I think he was awarded his 10th degree 2 or so years ago.

is this karatedo and shorin ryu????

[SRyuFighter]

Yes its Seibukan Shorin Ryu Karate-do.

[Jill666]

Originally posted by pesilat
I don't know that all of Bujinkan does that. I'm sure there's some variance between schools.

Mike

My instructor in Bujinkan (my cousin, incidentally) was just awarded his 5th Dan by Hatsumi last month. He studied Kenpo for years, then Aikido, and settled on Taijutsu. Altogether he has 20 plus experience in the arts, about half being Bujinkan.

I can't speak for anyone else, just from my own experience. I would hate to think of a checkbook buying a rank in the system although I know it happens. My cousin once visited a dojo with a framed Asian- language paper on the wall. It was a menu.

[moromoro]

I don't know that all of Bujinkan does that. I'm sure there's some variance between schools.

iam not talking about all bujinkan iam talking about SOKE Hatsumi

if you go to the daikomyosai event in japan it is a guarantee that he will grade you

soke hatsumi doesnt care bout grades he gives them as gifts

part of the greatest strategy in the bujinkan, kyojutsu tenkan ho

method of falsehood and truth

[theletch1]

I've put off adding to this post for a long time for reasons of my own but here goes. A lot of students that I have seen leave one school in particular leave because of an abusive instructor/unstable instructor. Have seen a white belt sent to a hospital with blood vessels busted in their leg to the point that compression bandages had to be worn to avoid blood clots as a result of "conditioning training". 14 year old students being called wimps for tapping out of arm bars "too soon" and having his wife in the class as a student and using her as a punching bag. Lot's more to this story but I won't go into it here. Let's just leave it at anyone in the roanoke Virginia area wanting to train is free to e-mail me to check out the schools in the area to make sure you aren't heading into the wrong school.

oh, yeah.... did I mention that I'm changing schools?:shrug:

[vin2k0]

People who leave are usually not 'made' for martial arts and cannot hack it. Either that, or they like to try different arts and different schools.

[Shinzu]

Originally posted by vin2k0
People who leave are usually not 'made' for martial arts and cannot hack it. Either that, or they like to try different arts and different schools.

i disagree. i left for various reasons, but never because i couldn't "hack it." peoples lives have many paths to take that lead them away from the MA. it took me many years to get back into it but i never lost my love for it.

some people just need to put it on the back burner for a bit.

[Deaf]

Originally posted by moromoro
iam not talking about all bujinkan iam talking about SOKE Hatsumi

if you go to the daikomyosai event in japan it is a guarantee that he will grade you

soke hatsumi doesnt care bout grades he gives them as gifts

part of the greatest strategy in the bujinkan, kyojutsu tenkan ho

method of falsehood and truth

Can you verify that information?

From my understanding the Japanese philosophy is totally different than American or European etc. philosophy. We tend to view ranks in terms of skill level shown BEFORE receiving the rank. Where as in Japan you are awarded the rank and then expected to "grow into" the rank.

I know that Hatsumi mainly awards rank based not on skill but more for "heart" and if I am correct, he only awards the 5th dan and above. And since any rank above 5th dan is really more of a "personal or spirtual" path for many, the ranks given are based on that type of growth.

I personally don't see the big deal in it just for the fact I look at a person's skill and not the belt or rank when I "judge" them

BTW.. is there any reason towards your bashing of the Bujinkan? You do know that there are many many other styles out there, even instructors that just basically give out rank like you have described.

I have trained in the MA (ShotoKan, Tang Soo Do and several others) for well over 20 years and have trained in Bujinkan for well over 7 of those years. I have just EARNED my 2nd Dan...so as you can see, not all Bujinkan ranks are just given out.

I'll stop my rantings for now.

~Deaf~

[girlychuks]

Originally posted by vin2k0
People who leave are usually not 'made' for martial arts and cannot hack it. Either that, or they like to try different arts and different schools.

Actually, I admire someone who knows thier limitations. I cannot believe there is not a martial arts that anyone cannot do to some extent. I have seen paralyzed/ downsyndrome affected/ blind people all do martial arts very well.

I consider Tai Chi a martial art, and it is one they teach at our senior centers.....

I am switching schools. lots of reasons, none of them minro to me or my family.
I will probably end up with my little brother studying Ji Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do with a smattering of hapkido/judo thrown in. Aaaugh! I can here the I told You so's coming......

[Kirk]

Originally posted by girlychuks
Aaaugh! I can here the I told You so's coming......

Big deal, you study for yourself, not for them.

[Kenpo Yahoo]

What about students who leave a school because their instructor is an arrogant @$$ who simply views his students as income and nothing more?

What about the students who leave because they discover that their teacher is withholding information from them? Information that other students from other schools within their association have.

What about the students who leave because their instructor tries to make them act subordinate to him when they are in public settings (i.e. not the dojo)? You know like, you aren't allowed to speak at a table that "I'm" sitting at, because you know nothing.

There are other reasons out there for leaving a specific school or instructor. To chastise and stereotype everyone who makes a change simply because it is your opinion that they are hacks, is ridiculous.

Get half a brain

[moromoro]

I personally don't see the big deal in it just for the fact I look at a person's skill and not the belt or rank when I "judge" them

please explain this when talking about a 14th dan

[arnisandyz]

In my perfect world a student would leave to move on to another teacher or partner or solo to find his/her own way. Being both a student and teacher I try not to limit myself or my students. A student should go through many teachers that each have something to give the student depending on the students needs. There is a responsibily to the student do determine what that need is. Almost every good teacher that I have had has encouraged me to seek out other teachers to learn from.

Imagine if your entire education through college consisted of instruction from your first grade teacher.

[andurilking2]

yes i believe most people dont know what they're getting themselves into, they want either a quick way to kick someones ass or they think that it will be very little work when they get to a serieous place they cant hang

[KenpoBruce2006]

I've seen people leave for a variety of reasons, all of them listed. Adults tend to leave because they lose interest or their life schedule doesn't allow it anymore or they can't afford it. Kids just tend to lose interest. Or their parents don't think they are progressing fast enough (even though you gave them a general time frame and they agreed with it). Lots of reasons for lots of people.

Cioa
KenpoBruce2006

[bobster_ice]

From another thread.

Just curious as to why people think that students leave where they are at and go to new schools/teachers/arts?

Well I know of some students that have left my ninjutsu class because they think the art and training is far too hard for them, and that was after two weeks training. I try my best to encourage them to come back, I tell them that they would get used to art but they just dont come back.

Some other students leave Martial arts because their friends are bullying them to do things like fly kicks and front flips etc.

I have lots more suggestions but im only back from school so my brain isnt working properly,

Bobby

[Robert Lee]

I may be wrong But a person has to grow inside as well as the out of there training. This allows them to be able to stay in there chosen M/A . Years ago I was told you will see 300 people come and go before you make blackbelt. I did see many people come and go. And was told often That when a person is not ready for the next grade they begin to hold there self back because they have not grown from there learning. This perhaps makes sence. But when I left What is called TMA I saw the same And saw that as you push a person to perform that person has to push there limits. Some will many will not. And when you train with more contact and more application the same people just do not want to work for what they need to discover. So they leave either give up there M/A all together or move to another school where they feel it may be easyer for them. And yes some move to where they can become better feeling they are not getting what they want. Money does play a role . But when a person wants something they find away to get it. Instruction motivation and personal goals keep or drive people away. Whatever the reasons people will allways start but few will stay the course of training. Those that do are the ones that years later still train. The others well they went on to what they chose.

[Slihn]

From another thread.

Just curious as to why people think that students leave where they are at and go to new schools/teachers/arts?

The most common reason is because most people have unrealistic goals(due to Hollywood movies)and dont get the fast results that they expect.Many people only train 2 days a week in their Gym/Dojo/Dojan and do nothing else but expect to be master's of their art after only a month of training.That doesnt happen they get discouraged and then quit.This is truely sad occurance.Im sure that 200 or so years ago,when people where practicing Martial Arts for the very well being of their lives that they practiced more that 4 hours a week and they probably took the training very seriously because back then winning or losing a fight could be the differance between life or death,so they gave it all that they had back then and got great results.That intensity is not around anymore,many people dont train with much intensity but still expect the results of training in high intensity,they dont get those results, and soon quit giving up on the Martial Art saying that it is ineffective or further more criticizing the art.I've seen this happen on many occasions.

[bushidomartialarts]

in my experience, students leave when they don't have a sense of importance and belonging in the school.

i took over my studio from a guy who was running it as a mcdojo. i cut our number of dropouts down to one quarter, mostly by creating a sense of community: a leadership program, parties for the kids and youth, barbeque in the summer -- all sorts of stuff to make the place feel like a real family.

once the dojo is an extension of your home, you find reasons to stay rather than look for reasons to leave. if we lose someone who's been with us for more than a couple of months, it's almost always because they're moving away. come to think, i've had three students (or parents of students) tell me they considered moving, but stayed because of our program.

[beau_safken]

Life issues, School, commitments, relationships..any number of things.

[chinto01]

I think the hardest group to keep around are the junior high and high schoolers. This is due to the sports schedules and other life and school events. Hopefully they will someday return to continue their training.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob