Martial Arts = Satan

[fist of fury]

Just to warn everybody here:

http://www.evilexposed.com/martialarts1.htm

[SteelShadow]

This is alot of crap. Enough said

[Master of Blades]

Damn the priest was right when he kicked me out the church! I am a sinner! :(

Could also have something to do with the fact Im jewish :rofl:

[Matt Stone]

Karate was handed down from Zen Master to Buddhist Monk. This was done only by word of mouth and kept strictly secret. Everything done in karate today can be traced back to the Zen Buddhism principal. Karate is a religious experience because it is a mental and moral exercise designed to unite mind, body and spirit. These include: kung fu, pa kua, wu shu and gung fu that are the style of the Chinese. The Korean style includes: hapkido and Tai kwan do. Many karate masters will tell you that karate is Zen. The aim of Zen is to bring the student to an awareness to his true self through inward meditation. Zen meditation tries to achieve "no mindedness" which may be acquired by concentration and special breathing exercises. Karate, when combined with Zen meditation, is used to bring students peace of mind in the face of conflict and tension. If one truly aspires to master the art of karate, he cannot ignore the spiritual implications in the Yoga-like breathing exercises and meditation of the Western world. You cannot separate it from its religion.

I think the only "no mindedness" rests in the alleged minds of simpletons that believe this kind of crap.

And, like so many poor quality schools in the US, they can't even get their martial history straight... Now I'm pissed TWICE - once for these religious zealots and once for the continuing misinformation low quality mini-mall dojos propagate to the unsuspecting public.

:angry:

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[Master of Blades]

Hang on.......you know what this means dont you. All you MT users who claim to be good Jews, Muslims, Christians or whatever in the God Thread are HYPOCRITES!!!! HYPOCRITES ALL OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl: :rofl:

:rolleyes: Sorry I had to......These things crack me up

[John Bishop]

Well, I see they've included the Kajukenbo Coat of Arms as one of the satanic symbols. Obviously they've never been to a Kajukenbo school where classes start with the Kajukenbo prayer:


ALMIGHTY AND ENTERAL GOD,
CREATOR OF ALL THOSE
WHO PUT THEIR TRUST IN THEE,
ACCEPT THE HUMBLE HOMAGE
OF OUR FAITH AND LOVE IN THEE,
THE ONE TRUE GOD.

BLESS OUR EFFORTS,
TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY,
OF OUR UNITED STATES,
A NATION FOUNDED
ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

ENLINGHTEN OUR RULES,
GUIDE OUR LAW MAKERS,
PROTECT THE SANCTITY OF OUR HOMES,
AND BLESS OUR EFFORTS
IN THESE EXERCISES,
WHOSE SOLE PURPOSE
IS TO DEVELOP OUR BODIES,
TO KEEP OTHERS MINDFUL,
OF THY COMMANDMENTS.

GIVE US PERSERVERENESS
IN OUR ACTIONS,
SO WE MAY USE THIS,
AS A MEANS
TO KEEP CLOSER TO YOU,
THE ONE TRUE GOD.

AMEN.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by John Bishop
Well, I see they've included the Kajukenbo Coat of Arms as one of the satanic symbols. Obviously they've never been to a Kajukenbo school where classes start with the Kajukenbo prayer:


ALMIGHTY AND ENTERAL GOD,
CREATOR OF ALL THOSE
WHO PUT THEIR TRUST IN THEE,
ACCEPT THE HUMBLE HOMAGE
OF OUR FAITH AND LOVE IN THEE,
THE ONE TRUE GOD.

BLESS OUR EFFORTS,
TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY,
OF OUR UNITED STATES,
A NATION FOUNDED
ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

ENLINGHTEN OUR RULES,
GUIDE OUR LAW MAKERS,
PROTECT THE SANCTITY OF OUR HOMES,
AND BLESS OUR EFFORTS
IN THESE EXERCISES,
WHOSE SOLE PURPOSE
IS TO DEVELOP OUR BODIES,
TO KEEP OTHERS MINDFUL,
OF THY COMMANDMENTS.

GIVE US PERSERVERENESS
IN OUR ACTIONS,
SO WE MAY USE THIS,
AS A MEANS
TO KEEP CLOSER TO YOU,
THE ONE TRUE GOD.

AMEN.

Maybe they thinks its not the "RIGHT" God? :shrug:

[fist of fury]

See the problem is you're thinking for yourself so you're wrong. You need to let these people think for you and you'll be much better off.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by fist of fury
See the problem is you're thinking for yourself so you're wrong. You need to let these people think for you and you'll be much better off.

Exactly! Thats what I have been trying to tell you people! Fist of Fury your a very smart man! :asian:

:rofl:

[rachel]

I think somebody has too much time on there hands to come up with this garbage.

[buguhan]

Have you read their page about symbols?!
They are telling us that
a) the circle is satanic ( Yin/Yang IS a circle)
b) the triangle is also satanic ( I am training Modern Arnis, and in on the fillipinian flag there are many triangles !!!)
and
c) a star is satanic, too
[ Oh dear, America does have 50 stars on its flag ( yes, I am german, but I don't think that America is evil in person!)]

[rachel]

Think of all the stars in the sky! The whole universe is satanic!:eek:

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by rachel
I think somebody has too much time on there hands to come up with this garbage.

And what do they say about idle hands? :angry:

Perhaps these people should spend their time training rather than sitting around inventing more conspiracies that involve either "Satan," the Freemasons, the CIA or George Bush...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

[Zepp]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Well they got one thing right- Tae Bo is definitely evil! :rofl:

I am definitely e-mailing this link to all my friends and training partners.
What would we all do for entertainment if morons didn't exist?

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Zepp
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Well they got one thing right- Tae Bo is definitely evil! :rofl:

I am definitely e-mailing this link to all my friends and training partners.
What would we all do for entertainment if morons didn't exist?

A world without morons we'd have no politicans then. How would the world survive.

[Jill666]

Somewhere out there someone earnestly belienves this. That is what frightens me.

[Zepp]

If that frightens you, go to their "Ask the Team" section and read the message from "Master X." I think that guy may be scarier.

:D

[pesilat]

Originally posted by fist of fury
Just to warn everybody here:

http://www.evilexposed.com/martialarts1.htm

Personally, I think fanatics of any stripe are dangerous and small minded fanatics with agendas are "evil."

I wonder if they realise that prayer is a form of meditation?

Mike

[yilisifu]

It IS sad to realize that there really are people out there who believe this kind of garbage.....:mad:

[CHUNNER]

These people are fanatics who see evil everywhere. If there were more martial artists in the world and fewer nuts like these it would be a better, less bigotted place to live in.

[TKDman]

Well the site is right to an extent. Some Martial Arts schools and instructors take their art to a religous form. A lot of people take Zen seriously and use Karate as a missionary almost. I mean with their traditions, bowing, ceremonies, and even burning insense in some cases. Look at some Aikido schools, its almost some kind of Eastern Church. Many schools preach the Mind + Body + Spirit stuff. I can see where it is taken to a religous level. A lot of places practice Meditation and Yoga.... Im just here to learn punches and kicks not ur magical bs or your stupid stories.

I am glad my school is just Martial Arts and not magic bologna.

[pesilat]

Originally posted by TKDman
Well the site is right to an extent. Some Martial Arts schools and instructors take their art to a religous form. A lot of people take Zen seriously and use Karate as a missionary almost. I mean with their traditions, bowing, ceremonies, and even burning insense in some cases. Look at some Aikido schools, its almost some kind of Eastern Church. Many schools preach the Mind + Body + Spirit stuff. I can see where it is taken to a religous level. A lot of places practice Meditation and Yoga.... Im just here to learn punches and kicks not ur magical bs or your stupid stories.

I am glad my school is just Martial Arts and not magic bologna.

In my opinion, religion has to have a deity. Zen, then, isn't a religion. It's a philosophy.

As I mentioned before, prayer can be considered a form of meditation.

But meditation isn't "religious" or "mystical" by nature. It's simply a tool to improve focus and concentration. To me "mind, body, spirit" has nothing to do with religion. It's about melding the mind, body, and spirit (attitude, intent) toward a specific, focused goal.

Fanatics can warp anything out of proportion. Yes, there are fanatics who turn MA training into a religious thing. But, in my experience, they're rare.

There are also those who bring their religious beliefs into their MA training. I personally disagree with this, but I don't think it's "wrong."

And there are some systems that have religious undertones because the founder brought them into it. But I wouldn't count Aikido in this. Nor would I count anything that uses the Zen philosophy as this.

What this site is doing, though, is making some very broad generalizations, erroneous assumptions, and then using left-field logic to say that martial arts are bad. It was written by a narrow minded fanatic with some sort of agenda. And, personally, I think it's disgusting and very "wrong."

But, I live in America and, I believe, so does the author of that article. Therefore, he has a right (both legally and morally) to his opinion and I have to (both legally and morally) respect that. I don't have to agree with it, though. And am free to state my own opinion :)

Mike

[Cthulhu]

The site seems to be inaccesible now. Wonder if it's from all the hits from the board :)

Cthulhu

[Dennis_Mahon]

These people are fanatics who see evil everywhere. If there were more martial artists in the world and fewer nuts like these it would be a better, less bigotted place to live in.

And what makes you believe that martial artists are (as a whole) any better than this group?

[Jill666]

Originally posted by Zepp
If that frightens you, go to their "Ask the Team" section and read the message from "Master X." I think that guy may be scarier.

:D

Jeez- I tried but they seems to be inaccessible now. Think they're on to us? :borg:

[Zepp]

Ahhhhh, did we make the zealots' website go boom?

I hope they come back- they were just too priceless.

[Infight]

Fists is right, stop thinking by yourself, and let they think for you. Im not a sinner since there is nothing related to BJJ, maybe butchers but not sinners, oh my..!!!! im thinking, stop it, stop it..................oh much better now.

[CHUNNER]

In reply to your question, I live in Northern Ireland where small mindedness and bigotry are endemic. In my 21 years training I have found that those who train seriously in the martial arts are amongst the most open minded reasonable and tolerant people I have met.

I have been trained by, trained with and taught people from both communities and have never experienced any of the attitudes that have poisoned my country for over 35 years. Indeed the martial arts is one of the few activities over here where people from both communities freely mix.

This is the basis for my statement.

It is of course... only my opinion.

[CHUNNER]

In reply to your question, I live in Northern Ireland where small mindedness and bigotry are endemic. In my 21 years training I have found that those who train seriously in the martial arts are amongst the most open minded reasonable and tolerant people I have met.

I have been trained by, trained with and taught people from both communities and have never experienced any of the attitudes that have poisoned my country for over 35 years. Indeed the martial arts is one of the few activities over here where people from both communities freely mix.

This is the basis for my statement.

It is of course... only my opinion.

[Cryozombie]

When I was young I wanted to study martial arts SO badly...

My parents wouldn’t allow it because they felt it was a "Negative religious Experience tied into Cults." (And Neither of my parents was religious) I never really bought into it, however, I just wasn’t allowed to Join a school.

My first real Martial Arts Experience was when I was in basic training at Ft. Benning... and I discovered that it was NOT a cult... I have been doing martial arts for over 10 years now, I am working on a Degree in world religion and oh yeah, I am an ordained Christian Minister.

Add to that the Fact I have a Yin-Yang Tattoo... I just cannot understand their point of view... But I also believe this type of closed-minded Christianity is what pushes people away from God, and does nothing constructive except to spread fear and mistrust.

But I don't want to turn this into a sermon, Just an observation that this is NOT the way all Christians feel about the Martial Arts, and that not all the people who believe this sort of junk are Christians.

Just chock it all up to the REAL force of evil... THE MEDIA.

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Jill666
Jeez- I tried but they seems to be inaccessible now. Think they're on to us? :borg:

No I used a remote dim mak technique on the webmaster. I'm able to throw my chi over great distances.

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by fist of fury
I'm able to throw my chi over great distances.

OH... You Study YELLOW BAMBOO... :D

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Technopunk
OH... You Study YELLOW BAMBOO... :D
actually a super secret sect that branched off of them. I study Brass Monkey.......

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Technopunk
OH... You Study YELLOW BAMBOO... :D

LOL Dont bring that up again :rofl:

[Zepp]

Hey guys, guess who's coming back...

http://www.evilexposed.com

Let's be vewy, vewy quiet this time so we don't scare them away too fast. :D

[Jill666]

I'll be relieved to once a gain have a sturdy and reliable source to keep me from evil.

[Seig]

Bah, they're down again.:barf:

[yilisifu]

Alright.....who broke wind?:D

[Jill666]

Originally posted by yilisifu
Alright.....who broke wind?:D


:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

[thepanjr]

ok thatb was weird

[Sin]

I honestly can not see the site, it takes me to a search engine

[KenpoTess]

well the post is 2 yrs old..

[Sin]

So can we got a mod to lock it so it can't be brought back up?

[KenpoTess]

There's always someone who's going to bring up old posts.. hence we archive them but keep them available.. But hopefully the old threads at least have some information in them that will garner new members to respond accordingly.

Other than that.. we just let the ones that are to old to do any good .. die out...

[TonyM.]

It's still a good thread. The folks that wrote that gibberish don't really believe in it. There are buzz words in the article that a group of people have been using for four hundred years. This is another example of disinformation from these folks. If they can't take it over and control it, they discredit or distroy it.

[Matt Stone]

How entertaining that someone gives me negative reputation points (ooh, how that stings!) because of a post I made 2 years ago...

I stand by my opinion - those who believe anything and everything they are told, especially when under the guise of religious instruction and based on bad historical information (the Zen Buddhist origins of karate are complete and utter ********), deserve whatever public ridicule they receive.

C'mon, negative rep me again... I dare ya... :rolleyes:


(* Post edited for content, Please allow the filter to do the work it was designed for, Thank you. Rich Parsons Martial Talk Super Moderator *)

[donald]

As a believing christian. I just have to comment. Anything, or anyone who exalts, or teaches to exalt something above The Lord Jesus. Is evil per God's Word. There are martial arts that include some form of mystical component. If this mystical teaching opposes God's Word, it is evil/sin. I believe that a believer can practice a martial art. If it does not teach anything that opposes The Word of God. I think alot of christian's have formed an opinion that is based on what they have heard. Not on what they know of the martial arts in general. Some believers would call me deceived. I don't agree. I do not see anything in God's Word that declares a sport, evil. I don't see anything that declares self defense, or the practice there of as evil. I have heard various teachings on the turn the other cheek verse, and the go get a sword verse. I believe that we(believers)must approach all things in this life with prayer, in the light of God's Word. I believe that The Lord Jesus has been teaching me to trust in Him. If we remain there I don't think we will be easily side tracked. If you have no faith in Christ. You have no where to begin. Our spiritual life must come first, then everything else. I hope this made some sense to someone out there?
By His Grace,
1stJohn 1:9

[Flatlander]

There are martial arts that include some form of mystical component. If this mystical teaching opposes God's Word, it is evil/sin.So, does it? What are you implying here?

[MichiganTKD]

Why exactly is Christianity better than what some martial arts teach? For that matter, is someone who uses martial arts to promote Christianity any better than an instructor who doesn't? Martial arts are NOT religion, pure and simple. Some are more connected with aspects of Eastern philosophy than others, but that does not make them evil. Why is learning to become one with the universe evil?
If you believe that God created the Universe, then by extension by becoming one with the Universe, you are becoming one with God. But I suppose that since Christ is not mentioned in any of this, it must be evil. But these philosophies predate Christ by hundreds of years. You're telling me that a philosophy hundreds of years older than Christianity, but striving for universal peace and Enlightenment, is evil because it is not Christianity?
Pardon me while I throw up. My stomach dislikes being handed BS.

[Matt Stone]

Many Christians say that qigong and meditation are satanic in orientation. Whatever. Doing something natural to enhance one's natural self is obviously evil. Just the same as sex being evil as well... That which God created to allow Man to procreate must certainly be evil and dirty, right? Thereby implying that God is capable of creating something that is imperfect and inherently evil..? Why would He do such a thing?

Personally, I subscribe to a good many Gnostic Christian teachings, to include the thinking that a God of truth, love and goodness can create nothing that is dishonest, hateful and sinful. So for me, qigong, meditation, etc., are no more damaging than eating or drinking...

[rmcrobertson]

Seems to me that if there is a Devil (which I doubt), you can pretty much find him everywhere--including among the pious, in churches, and among the yahoos currently down in Florida meddling in other people's marriages, getting as far as they can from the many, many people who could desperately use their help right across from their home.

[Tgace]

As long as people who believe what he believes are not out closing down MA schools, who cares if that's what he believes? He stated what he believes and he has the right to. I may not agree with everything he said either, but I disagree with some opinions of others around here even more.

The way I read Donalds post, it sounds like hes supporting MA and against the blanket "evil" charge anyway.

[rmcrobertson]

Well, I agree with your comment. However, I also read, "Donald's," post above, and it's always good to know that all of us who believe differently are doomed to everlasting hellfire, since, "If you have no faith in Christ. You have no where to begin."

Personally, I think that if Satan can be found anywhere, it's in that sort of arrogance.

[Flatlander]

and it's always good to know that all of us who believe differently are doomed to everlasting hellfire, since, "If you have no faith in Christ. You have no where to begin."Worry not, good friend, for I shall seek you out when I arrive, and buy you a cold one. :cheers:

[rmcrobertson]

Or, as a friend of mine told me a while back when I told him, "You're going to hell for that, ya know...."

"Yeah, but at least I'll know everybody."

I'll hold you to it. Let's hope that they have Steinlager, or Hacker-Pschorr-Munchen, or Dos Equis lager...I wonder what bar food's like in Hell? Maybe they got those little shrimp, wrapped in peppers and grilled, I had down in Guyamas...

But I got the second round. I figure I still be teaching comp and kenpo, so I'll have a job.

[Ceicei]

Or, as a friend of mine told me a while back when I told him, "You're going to hell for that, ya know...."

"Yeah, but at least I'll know everybody."

I'll hold you to it. Let's hope that they have Steinlager, or Hacker-Pschorr-Munchen, or Dos Equis lager...I wonder what bar food's like in Hell? Maybe they got those little shrimp, wrapped in peppers and grilled, I had down in Guyamas...

But I got the second round. I figure I still be teaching comp and kenpo, so I'll have a job.
If Martial Arts are considered evil, you're in "good" company..... I'll join you at your dojo. :wink:

- Ceicei

[47MartialMan]

As a believing christian. I just have to comment. Anything, or anyone who exalts, or teaches to exalt something above The Lord Jesus. Is evil per God's Word. There are martial arts that include some form of mystical component. If this mystical teaching opposes God's Word, it is evil/sin. I believe that a believer can practice a martial art. If it does not teach anything that opposes The Word of God. I think alot of christian's have formed an opinion that is based on what they have heard. Not on what they know of the martial arts in general. Some believers would call me deceived. I don't agree. I do not see anything in God's Word that declares a sport, evil. I don't see anything that declares self defense, or the practice there of as evil. I have heard various teachings on the turn the other cheek verse, and the go get a sword verse. I believe that we(believers)must approach all things in this life with prayer, in the light of God's Word. I believe that The Lord Jesus has been teaching me to trust in Him. If we remain there I don't think we will be easily side tracked. If you have no faith in Christ. You have no where to begin. Our spiritual life must come first, then everything else. I hope this made some sense to someone out there?
By His Grace,
1stJohn 1:9
perhaps it is the need for certain christian to use gospel to turn anyone against other things in order to keep their mind on religion...or perhaps it is the same old human thinking about myth or untruths and making a opinions before learned awareness

[Infrazael]

Link isn't working bro. . . .

Or I have no idea what to click on??? It gives me links to video games. . . . . .

[shesulsa]

If you scroll down and read more of the thread, you'll see that the link most likely doesn't work because it's 2 years old.

[Infrazael]

As a believing christian. I just have to comment. Anything, or anyone who exalts, or teaches to exalt something above The Lord Jesus. Is evil per God's Word. There are martial arts that include some form of mystical component. If this mystical teaching opposes God's Word, it is evil/sin. I believe that a believer can practice a martial art. If it does not teach anything that opposes The Word of God. I think alot of christian's have formed an opinion that is based on what they have heard. Not on what they know of the martial arts in general. Some believers would call me deceived. I don't agree. I do not see anything in God's Word that declares a sport, evil. I don't see anything that declares self defense, or the practice there of as evil. I have heard various teachings on the turn the other cheek verse, and the go get a sword verse. I believe that we(believers)must approach all things in this life with prayer, in the light of God's Word. I believe that The Lord Jesus has been teaching me to trust in Him. If we remain there I don't think we will be easily side tracked. If you have no faith in Christ. You have no where to begin. Our spiritual life must come first, then everything else. I hope this made some sense to someone out there?
By His Grace,
1stJohn 1:9
This is the particular reason why I left Christianity (now a Chaosist, which is essentially a meta-paradigm NOT a religion, and a paradox simulataneously). Fundamentalism = closed-mindedness. . . . I look back, and I replay the times when the pastor was saying how Buddhism was evil, how Hinduism was evil, and how they will lead you to hell.

I don't every hear Buddhists saying Christianity is evil. I hear the Dalai Lama saying how Christ's teachings have fundamental truths to them, and that people should listen to them (in one of the books written by the Dalai Lama).

I only hear Christians bashing other religions, calling everything "against the word of God," to be inherently evil.

Oh my, guess to Crusades can now be justified.

[Matt Stone]

C'mon, negative rep me again... I dare ya... :rolleyes:

Somebody or somebodies really take this reputation point thing seriously... I got dinged two more times, both anonymously, for my previous post on this thread.

Please note that I invite any and all negative reputation point assignment from anyone, anywhere. Especially the anonymous ones. It speaks volumes about the giver's motivations, orientation, as well as their real "spirit."

See, adults, grown men and women, aren't afraid to address something in public. Skittish, frightened, juvenile internet armchair warriors, however, hide behind the safety of their keyboards and make pathetic, lame attacks in lieu of being able to do anything else.

C'mon, negative rep me again... I double dog dare ya... :rolleyes:

And after you do, go work on growing up. :rolleyes:

[mj-hi-yah]

Mod. Note.

Please, keep the conversation on topic.

- MJ :asian:
- MT Moderator -

[Matt Stone]

Let me orient my posts a little better, then...

I posted a negative attitude toward detractors of martial arts practice who equate such practice with "evil" elements of their religion. Then, with spectacularly poor information on the real history of a given martial art, as well as a completely incorrect idea of the impact a religion (not theirs) has had on that given martial art, they begin a tirade against martial arts practice based solely on that accumulated bad information. Instead of any particular person to whom my comments ran afoul addressing my comments publicly and refuting them, they instead remained behind the scenes and anonymously dinged my reputation points in an attempt to illustrate their disapproval (as if the number of reputation points genuinely matters to me).

I would like to see, personally, someone make a detailed and logical argument against martial practice. That someone, however, should understand the real history of martial arts, as opposed to the popularly held and wholly incorrect "karate came from monks at the Shaolin temple" Hollywood version. Further, I would like to see specific and extensive citations of the prohibitions against martial practice as set forth in their religious practice. Then we can compare notes side by side and evaluate their position.

Since it is the detractors who are attempting to prove their position, the burden of evidence resides with them. Failure to document their position, relying intead on "my pastor says," or other third person commentary, fails the common sense test... If a person subscribes to a belief, then that person should be able to document the specifics of their belief. If they can't, they don't believe, they allow others to believe for them...

Enjoy.

[An Eternal Student]

In response to the original topic I'll give my traditional response to all fanatics.It's only blasphemy if you are right and since you cant prove that SOD OFF!It might not be subtle but it gets to the point.

[Matt Stone]

Interesting how those who would decry martial arts as "satanic" are so incapable of responding in a timely fashion with specific citations as to how, precisely, martial training is devil-spawned...

I asked four days ago for those who had either replied negatively, or in an amusing but vain display negatively impacted my oh so important reputation score, to respond with their own thoughts (not those of their pastor/priest/holy person) and citations from the Bible to support their positions.

Thus far, I'd say they've failed. Another instance of "faith" really being some peoples' inclination to let others think on their behalf, providing the sheeple with "opinions" and "beliefs" that are only partially formed and mostly misunderstood by their herd... I mean "congregation."

"Faith" and "belief" mean nothing if you can't somehow substantiate your "faith" and "belief" with believable arguments. There are several thousand years worth of documented synods, councils, and other assemblies of clergy who did just that in order to fully codify what their particular sect held as true. You'd think after all their work, it'd be incredibly easy for followers of their traditions to explain why they think martial arts are "from the devil."

Let's see how long it takes for someone to refute this... Looking back over some of the posts on this thread, I'm looking forward for Donald or anyone else to tell me what in martial arts is being taught as being "above Jesus."

[47MartialMan]

Currently, I am working on a thesis of "Martial Arts and the Complexities of Religion". Christians (no offense) seem to have the most opposition in comparison with other religions.

[Tgace]

I personally dont see what the big deal is..unless some religious faction is shutting dojos down.

So some people think MA is "evil"...big deal.

[Matt Stone]

What strikes me as humorous (as a wannabe cultural anthropologist and a student of history) is how selective Christianity can be...

American Christianity is so far removed from its roots as to have become an almost entirely different religion. Parables are misinterpreted as literal teachings, and literal teachings are misinterpreted as parables. Documents and texts that were inherent in the Early Church are viewed as heresies today, while "leaders" in the American Christian movement repeat all the same mistakes that leaders of the Early Church were criticized for...

A little off topic, I saw a report on TV a week or so ago about Benny Hinn's "ministry," and the incredibly lavish lifestyle he engages in at his "ministry's" expense... One of his subordinate church leader actually said during her interview that she thought Christ would want the leaders of the church to live a comfortable lifestyle, and that Benny deserved to do so! The fact that Christ was a pauper, a homeless man hanging out with a dozen of his pals, that they begged for much of what they had and relied on the contributions of others to exist seems lost on them.

Ah well. I was raised a Catholic, but have broken with that upbringing. I am considering moving into the Eastern Orthodox (Russian) Church, as it contains much of the teachings I agree with as well as having a firm tie to its own history without creatively rewriting it. But whatever. Bottom line, martial values, meditational techniques, etc., are no more satanic than any other human frailty.

It'll be interesting to hear alternate arguments...

[Tgace]

Since I began the "graveyard" shift at work Ive been listening to Art Bells' radio show...apparently this is just the tip of the iceberg as far as "odd ideas" go...:erg:

[47MartialMan]

I would like to see, personally, someone make a detailed and logical argument against martial practice. That someone, however, should understand the real history of martial arts, as opposed to the popularly held and wholly incorrect "karate came from monks at the Shaolin temple" Hollywood version. Further, I would like to see specific and extensive citations of the prohibitions against martial practice as set forth in their religious practice. Then we can compare notes side by side and evaluate their position.
Speaking on the monk thingy-I found this interesting:

http://www.spiritualminds.com/authors.asp?authorid=12885

http://www.spiritualminds.com/articles.asp?articleid=1833