Home Study

[lilldevil7x3]

I am interested in doing the To-Shin Do Home study program. The nearest dojo to me is 2.5 hours away, and I am unable to make the commute 3 times a week. Does anyone have any experience with the Home study program? And if so do they feel they got the same quality training they would have recieved at a dojo? Thanks!

[Toshindo4ever]

And if so do they feel they got the same quality training they would have recieved at a dojo? Thanks!

In Toshindo home study you don't just learn from video. From time to time you are expected to meet up with real teachers at seminars. But a seminar is longer than a class so you get more for your commute time.

And some people actually think that home study is a bit better than going to a dojo. You get to work on things that you need to, instead of what the rest of the class needs.

These courses were put together by a skilled man who has only your best interest in mind. So if he thinks you can gain from it, you have no need to worry.

[terryl965]

OK here is my take who is there to tell you what is right and wrong while applying everything?

[Toshindo4ever]

OK here is my take who is there to tell you what is right and wrong while applying everything?

You send in videos of yourself and go to seminars from time to time. You can also join Anshu's forum for a small fee and get feedback from him and others.

[jks9199]

You send in videos of yourself and go to seminars from time to time. You can also join Anshu's forum for a small fee and get feedback from him and others.
That's still not the same as receiving immediate feedback and correction from a teacher. It doesn't matter what style we're talking about. With very few exceptions, most of us need someone who can look at what we're doing, and guide us to doing it right. Generally we just lack the perspective.

Like I said -- there are a few very talented individuals who can learn from a book or video. But most of us have to have someone help us.

[terryl965]

You send in videos of yourself and go to seminars from time to time. You can also join Anshu's forum for a small fee and get feedback from him and others.

Again Video only shows one angle you need a fulltime instructor to really teach you everything, Remember this is my opinion and forty years of training.

[The Last Legionary]

Video training or testing is much inferior to actual in-person work.

[Toshindo4ever]

Video training or testing is much inferior to actual in-person work.

But technology also alows things like viewing the move multiple times and a greater chance for people to catch mistakes. It all evens out.

I think that people who put down this type of training are just a little jealous that they did not have the same chance we all do now to learn just as well as people that go to a dojo every week.

[Andrew Green]

Martial arts is not a solo activity, you need to have someone to train against. You need to be able to actually twist arms, apply chokes, and block punches, not just make believe. Without parnter training you are just dancing.

[Toshindo4ever]

Martial arts is not a solo activity, you need to have someone to train against. You need to be able to actually twist arms, apply chokes, and block punches, not just make believe. Without parnter training you are just dancing.

And that is why you have to show up to seminars from time to time.

Honestly, do you think that a man of Anshu's ability does not realize the limitations of things like videos and has no idea of how to work around it?

[jks9199]

But technology also alows things like viewing the move multiple times and a greater chance for people to catch mistakes. It all evens out.

I think that people who put down this type of training are just a little jealous that they did not have the same chance we all do now to learn just as well as people that go to a dojo every week.
How many years of training do you have?

I've been training in the martial arts for over 20. Maybe I'm just dumb as a rock, because I have found that I cannot reliably learn new skills solely from a video and get them right. I can't even learn them well enough to take them to someone to put the polish on them...

Too many errors creep in, no matter how many times and how carefully I review the videos.

I can combine books and video (when properly designed to do so), and get closer -- but it's still not the same thing at all.

I've seen people demonstrate skills I know after they "learned" them from video. Out of maybe 100 examples... I've seen about 3 that weren't missing major elements that a live teacher could have corrected, if one had been present, long before they got cemented into bad habits.

My teacher taught me that it's much harder to unlearn something than to learn it correctly in the first place.

Keep training. Keep working... but, even more importantly -- find a live instructor to work with. Even if you can only do so once a week or once a month... In early stages of training, you need more personal, hands on correction. As you advance, the need is reduced, but not eliminated. I rely on my training partners as well as visits with my teacher and other seniors to maintain and develop... even after 20+ years.

[Kreth]

I think that people who put down this type of training are just a little jealous that they did not have the same chance we all do now to learn just as well as people that go to a dojo every week.
Video training is to real training as watching porn is to having sex.

[Andrew Green]

And that is why you have to show up to seminars from time to time.

Honestly, do you think that a man of Anshu's ability does not realize the limitations of things like videos and has no idea of how to work around it?

Wave your arms around and kick your legs like you are swimming without any water as your regular practice, jump in a pool once and a while, see how good you get compared to someone that is actually in the water swimming regularly.

good money in running that sort of program though, no real overhead, classes will never get too full, not stuck with evening and weekend hours only like with students training in person.

Training requires a group, with a group, even untrained, you might be able to get somewhere with a once and a while instructor and a bunch of reference material. But training alone is like swimming without water, you can look pretty doing it, but you still aren't swimming.

[Toshindo4ever]

How many years of training do you have?

How many years of training has Anshu has?

After all those many, many years of training more than you have do you think he does not know what he is doing by offering video training? And you do have to meet up with real teachers at seminars. Why are people trying to pass it off as if you do not?

[newtothe dark]

Because you come here blaring your horn. We understand you are excited about your training , great we are happy for you. Not everyone will agree with who and what and how you are training. We are all different and like different things. I also study TSD via the DVD's but have 30 yrears behind me in other arts so the excited new guy thing is way behind me. Enjoy your training but calm down in your posts if you want people to not attack you.

[Sukerkin]

That is good advice. Noone is ever convinced or swayed by overtly emotive and partisan stances on any subject out here in Web-land.

So by all means have a say and spread your enjoyment of what you do but it is a mistake to attempt to coerce peoples opinions in public fora. Nearly all will ignore you and most of those that remain will be driven into an even firmer mode of rebuttal by your own intensity.

Enjoy the conversation rather than trying to make converts.

[The Last Legionary]

But technology also alows things like viewing the move multiple times and a greater chance for people to catch mistakes. It all evens out.

I think that people who put down this type of training are just a little jealous that they did not have the same chance we all do now to learn just as well as people that go to a dojo every week.

Technology also lets you edit out the 27 tries it took for you to pull the tech off once near being right. Harder to snowjob someone in person. Videos make a great reference, but until the Marines switch from Live Fire and actual physical training under an experiened instructor, to a movie theater, a copy of Black Hawk Down and the latest FPS on the XBox360, I think I'll stick to my opinion that video-training is for lamers.


Martial arts is not a solo activity, you need to have someone to train against. You need to be able to actually twist arms, apply chokes, and block punches, not just make believe. Without parnter training you are just dancing.

Isn't that ABBAC on the Nintendo "Ninja Home Study Course?"


And that is why you have to show up to seminars from time to time.

Honestly, do you think that a man of Anshu's ability does not realize the limitations of things like videos and has no idea of how to work around it?

I think, like everyone else who offers "home study" courses, they recognize their customers desire for such things, and the finanical rewards offering them can bring. I think anyone intellegent would recognize that you do not get anywhere near their level of skill, watching videos, doing 2-3 seminars a year and beating up trees in your spare time.


How many years of training do you have?

I've been training in the martial arts for over 20. Maybe I'm just dumb as a rock, because I have found that I cannot reliably learn new skills solely from a video and get them right. I can't even learn them well enough to take them to someone to put the polish on them...

Too many errors creep in, no matter how many times and how carefully I review the videos.

I can combine books and video (when properly designed to do so), and get closer -- but it's still not the same thing at all.

I've seen people demonstrate skills I know after they "learned" them from video. Out of maybe 100 examples... I've seen about 3 that weren't missing major elements that a live teacher could have corrected, if one had been present, long before they got cemented into bad habits.

My teacher taught me that it's much harder to unlearn something than to learn it correctly in the first place.

Keep training. Keep working... but, even more importantly -- find a live instructor to work with. Even if you can only do so once a week or once a month... In early stages of training, you need more personal, hands on correction. As you advance, the need is reduced, but not eliminated. I rely on my training partners as well as visits with my teacher and other seniors to maintain and develop... even after 20+ years.

Well Said!


Video training is to real training as watching porn is to having sex.

Or a RealDoll is to a Real Girl? ;)




Wave your arms around and kick your legs like you are swimming without any water as your regular practice, jump in a pool once and a while, see how good you get compared to someone that is actually in the water swimming regularly.

good money in running that sort of program though, no real overhead, classes will never get too full, not stuck with evening and weekend hours only like with students training in person.

Training requires a group, with a group, even untrained, you might be able to get somewhere with a once and a while instructor and a bunch of reference material. But training alone is like swimming without water, you can look pretty doing it, but you still aren't swimming.

But you don't have to get wet, or sand in your crak either.


How many years of training has Anshu has?

After all those many, many years of training more than you have do you think he does not know what he is doing by offering video training? And you do have to meet up with real teachers at seminars. Why are people trying to pass it off as if you do not?

We know how many years Hayes has. The question is about you. Let me make it a clearer question.

How many years have you been training, in person, directly with Mr. Hayes?
How many years have you been miles and miles away, training on your own or with your friends, watching Hayes videos and books?



Because you come here blaring your horn. We understand you are excited about your training , great we are happy for you. Not everyone will agree with who and what and how you are training. We are all different and like different things. I also study TSD via the DVD's but have 30 yrears behind me in other arts so the excited new guy thing is way behind me. Enjoy your training but calm down in your posts if you want people to not attack you.

I've studied a dozen arts by video. I don't consider myself anything in any of them. I've also watched Last Samurai 20+ times, but I don't consider myself a Samurai, nor a Jedi just because I own a lightsaber.

[newtothe dark]

Video training is to real training as watching porn is to having sex.

Damn that screws up my stud status big time.:tantrum::lfao::rolleyes:

[terryl965]

But technology also alows things like viewing the move multiple times and a greater chance for people to catch mistakes. It all evens out.

I think that people who put down this type of training are just a little jealous that they did not have the same chance we all do now to learn just as well as people that go to a dojo every week.


Are you actually believing what you said, I am not at all jealous of anybody let alone somebody that truely believe they can come proficent though video training.

[bydand]

Home Study, Long Distance students, whatever you want to call it does have some merits. It also has it's flaws. I have had an Instructor when I was struggling with something come up and shift my a foot 1/2 an inch, or change a foot or arm angle by a degree or less and have had those minute adjustments make a HUGE difference. If I had been training with a DVD course, I would not have gotten those techniques when I did. I would have had to wait until a seminar or meeting and IF I had been able to describe what it was I was or wasn't doing before the correction came to make life less frustrating.

I think it is a good concept for those who have a background in an MA already because you should be able to "feel" if something isn't quite right, and know enough to STOP until you can get it corrected and not practice in bad habits that will be hard to break later in training. Nothing wrong with distance learning, just for somebody starting their journey, it isn't the same as being in a Dojo with a qualified Instructor. I have seen the DVD's, shoot I have a copy of the original concept VHS tapes before they were polished and what you see today. They are a very useful tool. It is nice to be able to review a segment as a loop while trying to emulate what is shown, but I personally find it MUCH harder than learning with an Instructor.

[arnisador]

Honestly, do you think that a man of Anshu's ability does not realize the limitations of things like videos

No.


and has no idea of how to work around it?

Yes...because they can't be worked around.

Going to occasional seminars is simply not the same thing.

[Xue Sheng]

Videos are at best a supplement to training “REGULARLY” with and actual Sifu.

I do not care who the Sifu is, or how many years of experience he has in ANY martial art he cannot “honestly” teach via distance learning and video.

I recently read a blurb on another site about a Sifu that I know is rather skilled and I have always respected but if what I read is true I am loosing respect for him rather fast because he too is now thinking about a "Distance Learning" program and in his style he knows better than I that you cannot teach it by watching or looking at a video there are WAAAAY to many small circles in it. If he does this it is simply money making scheme that is all.

There is also another rather well respected Sifu that has what he calls a "distance learning" program but he has made it ABSOLUTLY clear that it is (or at least was) a SUPLEMENT to training with him. His definition of distance is you train with him for about 6 weeks or more and then go off and use the videos to help you remember. This I have less of a problem with since he will not give anyone permission to teach unless they do meet with him and preform to his standard.

[lalom]

Video training is to real training as watching porn is to having sex.

Funny, but true! I think that LDS can definitely gain you some knowledge but it is nowhere near training and learning live from an instructor. A training partner is needed. It will help one gain SOME improvement and advance, but nothing like learning live.

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I am interested in doing the To-Shin Do Home study program. The nearest dojo to me is 2.5 hours away, and I am unable to make the commute 3 times a week. Does anyone have any experience with the Home study program? And if so do they feel they got the same quality training they would have recieved at a dojo? Thanks!

I think it is better to go once a week than use videos as training.

Supplementing with a videos is ok but as only means of training it may make things worse.

Just because your Kamae may look correct does not mean it feels correct.

A teacher must be present to tweak things which may be an inch or two off but can make the difference between a stable kamae or an unstable kamae.

You will not gain the same benefits of training with a Sensei in person as you would with a person. As said in the movie school for scoundrels"
How many people own a self help book? You can't help yourself if yourself sucks" As you see the point you need a teacher to be present with you. I do apologize in advance if my comments come off harsh or cruel.

[jks9199]

How many years of training has Anshu has?

After all those many, many years of training more than you have do you think he does not know what he is doing by offering video training? And you do have to meet up with real teachers at seminars. Why are people trying to pass it off as if you do not?
I can't help but notice the glaring omission of an answer.

I don't doubt Hayes's years of experience. I don't know how good a teacher he is -- but he's turned out good students. But video is no substitute for real training. Even with going to seminars occasionally.

Perhaps you'll reread the last paragraph of my post if I repeat it:

Keep training. Keep working... but, even more importantly -- find a live instructor to work with. Even if you can only do so once a week or once a month... In early stages of training, you need more personal, hands on correction. As you advance, the need is reduced, but not eliminated. I rely on my training partners as well as visits with my teacher and other seniors to maintain and develop... even after 20+ years.

[brycemaster]

Just throwing in my two pence, or two cents as the Americans say;
I'm lucky enough to train under a very skilled teacher of to-shin Do here in the U.K. but I also own the DVDs. Objectively I would say that the DVDs are excellent for teaching the basics of the art, and are even better to help those who already train to improve, but as many have said, it is impossible to learn how to train well without either a partner or sensei. However it is certainly a help to have the DVDs, how could it not help? It's like having someone remind/show you how 'that technique' should be done, or having a reference for knowledge about the art. Bottom line is, whether it teaches the art or not, I'm not going to argue, but it definitely is an aid to training! If DVDs were such a bad idea why would so many other arts and systems use it? Plus, I'm not sure who said it but whoever said something like:


The army doesn't use video games or DVDs to train.

This is obviously wrong, as there are many DVDs by special forces etc. available, and the American army trains soldiers using V.R. one real life example is the Force XXI Trials. I mean, god, the US army used to use DOOM as a training method to desensitize soldiers!!

Anyway there's my humble opinion. *Covers head from impending flames*

[JadeDragon3]

How many years of training has Anshu has?

After all those many, many years of training more than you have do you think he does not know what he is doing by offering video training? And you do have to meet up with real teachers at seminars. Why are people trying to pass it off as if you do not?

No offense BUT there are some instructors out there that put these home training courses out there for the sole purpose of making money and if you learn whats on them fine, if you don't learn whats on them fine also. Just because Anshu has years and years of training and knowledge doesn't mean that his home study course is great. I'm not just saying him, I'd say this about any style or teacher that has home training course DVD's out on the market.