Proper Blocking

[MJS]

What do you do to get the most out of your blocks? Any particular methods or tricks that you use to ensure that you'll be executing a strong, stable block?

[ackks10]

What do you do to get the most out of your blocks? Any particular methods or tricks that you use to ensure that you'll be executing a strong, stable block?


sure my uncle showed me as a young boy when i went to work with him, what he did was not use that much water with the mix, and let me tell you Mike it worked really good, i mean the blocks were really strong.:ultracool

[DavidCC]

circular, relaxed, extended movements.

I've tested it over and over, on knowing and unknowing subjects, and using the index postitions and paths of travel that I learned from Doc, as used in SL-4 kenpo, make an incredible difference in stability and damaging effect.

Once you get the movements ingrained it feels effortless and light, yet my training partners are rubbing their arms and wincing. Then consider the more sensitive 'points' on the attacking arms... consider the benefits of certain qi gong techniques (san ti)...

but mostly I would emphasize circular, relaxed, extended movements.

[morph4me]

Think about blocks like strikes, relaxed and with your body behind them tensing at the point of impact. The idea being not only to stop the attack but to inflict damage on the offending appendage.

[MarkC]

I've always been told by sparing partners and self-defense "ukes" that my blocks hurt them without much apparent effort on my part, I wish I could figure out why.
I do put a distnct twisting motion at the end of them most of the time.

[marlon]

cover your center line, use good stances move have a good fololow up strike or strikes, and don't worry about blocking

marlon

[Doc]

... don't worry about blocking

marlon

OK!

[Touch Of Death]

OK!
Perhaps he means blocking is a part of a larger process.
Sean

[MarkC]

I'd pay good money to have Doc instruct me on blocking, srtiking, stances, moving.....if, of course I had any!:)

[Doc]

I'd pay good money to have Doc instruct me on blocking, srtiking, stances, moving.....if, of course I had any!:)

You're a lot closer than you think. It's the little things that knowledge brings that makes all the difference in the world.
:)

[Doc]

I've always been told by sparing partners and self-defense "ukes" that my blocks hurt them without much apparent effort on my part, I wish I could figure out why.
I do put a distnct twisting motion at the end of them most of the time.

The "twist" is a bad thing.

[Doc]

What do you do to get the most out of your blocks? Any particular methods or tricks that you use to ensure that you'll be executing a strong, stable block?

In a word; "Index."

[theletch1]

Think about blocks like strikes, relaxed and with your body behind them tensing at the point of impact. The idea being not only to stop the attack but to inflict damage on the offending appendage.
Oddly enough, Tom, even though you and I study the same art now I picked up my thoughts on proper blocks long before beginning to study NGA but have the same feeling about blocking. Every block is a strike and I generally focus on using the ulna as my "hammer" for the strike.

[Doc]

Oddly enough, Tom, even though you and I study the same art now I picked up my thoughts on proper blocks long before beginning to study NGA but have the same feeling about blocking. Every block is a strike and I generally focus on using the ulna as my "hammer" for the strike.

Actually the popular "every block is a strike" perspective is technically incorrect, and a significant mischaracterization of a very complex mechanism. Focusing on one aspect, or the other, changes the potential effects and muscle group and skeletal alignments significantly enough to make them functional dichotomies of each other.

[theletch1]

Actually the popular "every block is a strike" perspective is technically incorrect, and a significant mischaracterization of a very complex mechanism. Focusing on one aspect, or the other, changes the potential effects and muscle group and skeletal alignments significantly enough to make them functional dichotomies of each other.
If I'm actually doing a hard block I've already screwed up. I'm an aikido-ka (Nihon Goshin) so really should be blending with the energy instead of using a block to stop it. I'm a realist, however, and realize that there will be times when that hard block from my kempo days may be what saves my butt. As it's not something that I do on a regular basis I've just settled into the every block is a strike mindset because the blocks that I'm doing are generally incidental to the atemi used to set up an aikido technique.

[Doc]

If I'm actually doing a hard block I've already screwed up. I'm an aikido-ka (Nihon Goshin) so really should be blending with the energy instead of using a block to stop it. I'm a realist, however, and realize that there will be times when that hard block from my kempo days may be what saves my butt. As it's not something that I do on a regular basis I've just settled into the every block is a strike mindset because the blocks that I'm doing are generally incidental to the atemi used to set up an aikido technique.
Interesting perspective sir, but even the "blending" characteristics of Aikido has "hard blocks" as well as strikes, as I understand it. Consider in execution that the "blending block" is no less effective, than the "hard kenpo block" relative to intended action. However, the commitment to one mechanism, or the other, does significantly impact you on the neuromuscular level and changes rudimentary function of your actions.

[MarkC]

The "twist" is a bad thing.
Can you elaborate sir?
Let me explain "twist", though you probably already know.
Actually, more of a focused snap. When we do basic hard blocks and knifehand strikes, we train to execute the block with the palm and facing the direction the block is moving toward, and at the last part of the movement, the forearm rotates so that as contact is made, the palm rotates to face me
and the ulna, for and inward forearm block; or the radius, for and outward forearm block, or the knife edge of the hand or the bottom of the fist is turning with a focused, snapping motion. Much the same way the fist rotates at the end of a punch.

I apologize for the clumsy description, as I noted, I'm sure you already know what I mean.
Can you explain a bit why this is bad, and the alternative?

Thank you.

[morph4me]

Interesting perspective sir, but even the "blending" characteristics of Aikido has "hard blocks" as well as strikes, as I understand it. Consider in execution that the "blending block" is no less effective, than the "hard kenpo block" relative to intended action. However, the commitment to one mechanism, or the other, does significantly impact you on the neuromuscular level and changes rudimentary function of your actions.

An interesting perspective, and I can see your point, if one were committed to one mechanism or the other. Now if you wouldn't mind, I'd really like to have you elaborate on your answer to the OP. I have no frame of reference for "Index"

[Doc]

An interesting perspective, and I can see your point, if one were committed to one mechanism or the other. Now if you wouldn't mind, I'd really like to have you elaborate on your answer to the OP. I have no frame of reference for "Index"

SL-4 Kenpo FAQ

What is an Index?

The human body must move through specific points or posture to support the desired physical activity. Some are intuitively achieved and learned throughout a lifetime of trial and error creating established synaptic pathways, and mind body connections.

Others must be taught when entering into physically new and unproven (to the body) applications. These are taught with exaggerated external movements to train the body to understand the relationship between the external movement, application, and the thought process required for success. In the "Motion Concept" Mr. Parker generally referred to these as “Phonetic Movements.” When movements are specific, they become "Indexes."

Over time, these “indexes” become compressed, faster and ultimately intuitive requiring less external movement to recruit the same neuromuscular support for the activity. Most forms of modern martial arts do not contain these “indices” or this scientific methodology of teaching and training physical movement for maximum efficiency.

Physical activity learned this way last a lifetime with no significant diminishing of developed skills or speed, even without constant practice once learned.

Mr. Parker, as stated previously, used the term "phonetics." He also called some movements "vowel movements."

[morph4me]

Thanks, makes perfect sense. :asian:

[Live True]

What do you do to get the most out of your blocks? Any particular methods or tricks that you use to ensure that you'll be executing a strong, stable block?

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I tried something today that helped a few things in my mind "click" on a full body synthesis in making blocks, and I'd be interested in the opinions of the experts here. I think this might be one of many effective ways to help build stronger/better blocks, which is why I offer it here. Also, I must admit I am very much a new student still figuring out the basics, so please take my comments for what they are and provide constructive criticism to help me learn. Thank you.:asian:

I decided to try practicing my wauke blocks in the pool today. Doing so made me very aware of the....for lack of better word..."force" I am applying in different directions...and it also helps me focus on keeping my elbows tucked close to my body (they want to float if you neglect them in the water). It also made me very aware of how my hand was positioned because it would either slice through the water or create a lot of splash. I also felt a significant difference if I tried to do it "all arm" or involved the whole body.

I'm still processing what I did, but I found it interesting in what it pointed out that I was/wasn't doing.

Thoughts?

[DavidCC]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I tried something today that helped a few things in my mind "click" on a full body synthesis in making blocks, and I'd be interested in the opinions of the experts here. I think this might be one of many effective ways to help build stronger/better blocks, which is why I offer it here. Also, I must admit I am very much a new student still figuring out the basics, so please take my comments for what they are and provide constructive criticism to help me learn. Thank you.:asian:

I decided to try practicing my wauke blocks in the pool today. Doing so made me very aware of the....for lack of better word..."force" I am applying in different directions...and it also helps me focus on keeping my elbows tucked close to my body (they want to float if you neglect them in the water). It also made me very aware of how my hand was positioned because it would either slice through the water or create a lot of splash. I also felt a significant difference if I tried to do it "all arm" or involved the whole body.

I'm still processing what I did, but I found it interesting in what it pointed out that I was/wasn't doing.

Thoughts?

I think that experiment can certainly highlight differences, although it may note be instructive as to which is better.

[marlon]

SL-4 Kenpo FAQ


What is an Index?

The human body must move through specific points or posture to support the desired physical activity. Some are intuitively achieved and learned throughout a lifetime of trial and error creating established synaptic pathways, and mind body connections.

Others must be taught when entering into physically new and unproven (to the body) applications. These are taught with exaggerated external movements to train the body to understand the relationship between the external movement, application, and the thought process required for success. In the "Motion Concept" Mr. Parker generally referred to these as “Phonetic Movements.” When movements are specific, they become "Indexes."

Over time, these “indexes” become compressed, faster and ultimately intuitive requiring less external movement to recruit the same neuromuscular support for the activity. Most forms of modern martial arts do not contain these “indices” or this scientific methodology of teaching and training physical movement for maximum efficiency.

Physical activity learned this way last a lifetime with no significant diminishing of developed skills or speed, even without constant practice once learned.

Mr. Parker, as stated previously, used the term "phonetics." He also called some movements "vowel movements."


For someone who stresses how difficult it is to teach via the written word, i must say that i have learned a great deal from you, sir. It will be a joy( and probably pain) to learn from you in person someday. As for my comment on blocking, i see it as an enrty mechanism and not a place to stop. In the videos i have seen of you teaching, you often stop at the block to explain the dynamics of what happens with your enrty move / block. Yet i imagine that you do not necessarily wait to 'see' the reaction of the person should you be in a fight. I know i wopuld continue. i teach blocking from the ground up, legs, waist, elbows in...However, when being attacked with multiple strikes and multiple weapons i would be very reactive if i 'tried' to block. The mechanics are necessary but to focus on blocking an offending limb to my limited understanding and experience is...slow. Blocking is my entry move, it should affect the alignment of the other person and primarily prevent me from being hit or hit badly, but then it is my fight and is close and is about logical flow that causes reactions it the other person. So, i should have said i do not think it 'good' to focus overmuch on blocking in the fight but in class the mechanics must be right and ingrained to be automatic. SKK seems to be much more of a close fighting system than AK and perhaps this is the difference (if any) yet logic, mechanics should be consistent within certain parameters. Anywho, this is what i meant and i am ready to be corrected. Teach me sir

Respectfully,
Marlon

[jks9199]

Interesting perspective sir, but even the "blending" characteristics of Aikido has "hard blocks" as well as strikes, as I understand it. Consider in execution that the "blending block" is no less effective, than the "hard kenpo block" relative to intended action. However, the commitment to one mechanism, or the other, does significantly impact you on the neuromuscular level and changes rudimentary function of your actions.
Doc,
I know you're saying something here. But I'm losing the message in the words, somehow. It may be that I simply lack the references since I practice neither kempo nor SL4; if so, please forgive me, since I mean no disrespect. I suspect my training hasn't been dissimilar, if less scientific, but I just can't tell...

[Doc]

Doc,
I know you're saying something here. But I'm losing the message in the words, somehow. It may be that I simply lack the references since I practice neither kempo nor SL4; if so, please forgive me, since I mean no disrespect. I suspect my training hasn't been dissimilar, if less scientific, but I just can't tell...

Your intended actions have a neuromuscular impact, therefore when you "think" block or strike, your body conforms to your thought process, which suggests through your synaptic pathways one configuration over the other.

They are not both identical physically sir, even though externally they appear the same. Subcutaneously, there are significant distinctions in how the body assigns neuromuscular and skeletal support, based on your intended actions, based on your thought process.

If you raise your hand up in a "heel-palm" configuration to wave a "hello" to someone, it may look externally the same as a strike, but on a neuromuscular level it is different, based on the "intent" signal transmitted from the brain to the structure.

I do a demo all the time that you can try, to illustrate why "words" are so important when discussing these things. Some have chided me for being overly verbose, however words carry powerful clues of intent based on ones understanding of the words, that may be very subtle.

You may notice I never use the word "opponent" when discussing Kenpo. That's because "opponents" are found in games and contests, and not on the streets when you are fighting to avoid injury or death.

Most understandings between the word "opponent" and "attacker," are significant. That is the average person has a "definition partition" in their thought process that separates the two words, and therefore assigns different meanings, and physical neuromuscular responses to the stimulus created by the two words.

Have someone audibly say the word "strong" forcefully three times. Than, have them shake and squeeze your hand while saying it again forcefully three times. While they are doing that, attempt to pull your hand free.

Repeat the experiment from the beginning, but change the word to "weak."

This is what we call a "Mind/Body Contradiction." Based on your understanding of the terms fed by your experiences over time, on a neuromuscular level they are assigned different functions, AND you may not entertain one thought process, while physically performing a contradictory action.

But then, some will tell you I'm nuts and there is no reason to study on this level. "A block is a strike, and strike is a block." Well, kinda. :)

[jks9199]

Your intended actions have a neuromuscular impact, therefore when you "think" block or strike, your body conforms to your thought process, which suggests through your synaptic pathways one configuration over the other.

They are not both identical physically sir, even though externally they appear the same. Subcutaneously, there are significant distinctions in how the body assigns neuromuscular and skeletal support, based on your intended actions, based on your thought process.

If you raise your hand up in a "heel-palm" configuration to wave a "hello" to someone, it may look externally the same as a strike, but on a neuromuscular level it is different, based on the "intent" signal transmitted from the brain to the structure.

I do a demo all the time that you can try, to illustrate why "words" are so important when discussing these things. Some have chided me for being overly verbose, however words carry powerful clues of intent based on ones understanding of the words, that may be very subtle.

You may notice I never use the word "opponent" when discussing Kenpo. That's because "opponents" are found in games and contests, and not on the streets when you are fighting to avoid injury or death.

Most understandings between the word "opponent" and "attacker," are significant. That is the average person has a "definition partition" in their thought process that separates the two words, and therefore assigns different meanings, and physical neuromuscular responses to the stimulus created by the two words.

Have someone audibly say the word "strong" forcefully three times. Than, have them shake and squeeze your hand while saying it again forcefully three times. While they are doing that, attempt to pull your hand free.

Repeat the experiment from the beginning, but change the word to "weak."

This is what we call a "Mind/Body Contradiction." Based on your understanding of the terms fed by your experiences over time, on a neuromuscular level they are assigned different functions, AND you may not entertain one thought process, while physically performing a contradictory action.

But then, some will tell you I'm nuts and there is no reason to study on this level. "A block is a strike, and strike is a block." Well, kinda. :)
I do think we're coming from similar places, even if we got there through very different routes. My instructor taught me "defense-offense" as one word, not two actions. There's a world of difference -- but it's not something that can be easily described. It's not simultaneous defense and offense, and it's definitely not defense then offense... I learned (and endeavor to teach) defense-offense.

I also understand the importance of the words used; as you well know, in my profession, a careless word can negate many hours of hard work... I simply lacked some of the referents to follow what you said.

[Danjo]

Well, how about another aspect of blocking? I find that at 41 years old I don't quite have the same reflexes that I did at 21 years old. WHen I was 21, I could snatch flies out of the air (not with chopsticks, but you get the idea) and could block or evade a punch by beginning my block when the thing was already zipping towards me. Now-a-days, I find that even though I still see the punch as soon as I used to, that arm of mine doesn't quite get up there to block it as quickly as it used to. I'm just a fraction slower on the draw, so to speak. (This has also made me become more of a counter fighter than one that always initiates an attack like I used to). I have found that I have to look for earlier indicators of when a strike is being thrown in order to mimick the same speed that I had 20 years ago. The problem is that I am not as able to determine the precise punch that is being thrown before I initiate my block/parry/evasion etc. I have to use more of a catch all type of defense.

So, these days, any defense that prevents me geting hit and leaves me in a good position to counter is proper blocking.

[bowser666]

I totally agree that the technique Doc is talknig about is correct form for blocking. I wanted to add a little bit of my spin. I achieved the rank of brown Belt in Kempo a lnog time ago mind you , and I have sinced switched styles to Northern Longfist Kung FU , and one thing that I do alot of now is Iron Arm training on a Mook Jong ( Wooden Dummy) this will stregthen your arms and condition your bones , muscles , ligaments etc. to impact. Quite a few of the black belts at my school feel like they have arms of iron when they block my attacks. THey are also using almost no effort to block. I was amazed at this and asked what they do to condition and they explain Iron Arm training to me. Yes it is not for the faint of heart, and for those who are afraid of pain initially. However if the end result is what they have, them I am all for it. I have been training in it for a month now. So far so good. I won't even mention how ridiculously hard my Sifu's arms are. His were more tough than the black belts.