How many chain punches can you throw in one second?

[mook jong man]

How many chain punches can you guys do in one second. I'm talking ones that go all the way back to your chest and out again.
Try and be honest, im estimating with out proper equipment that i can almost do five in one second. How about you gentlemen and ladies.

[brocklee]

How many chain punches can you guys do in one second. I'm talking ones that go all the way back to your chest and out again.
Try and be honest, im estimating with out proper equipment that i can almost do five in one second. How about you gentlemen and ladies.

Punches shouldn't go all the way back to the chest and I believe 5 would be impossible to do AND to count being that the hand works faster then the eye. I don't even think its possible for a human to count to 5 in one second without drooling

[geezer]

...I don't even think its possible for a human to count to 5 in one second without drooling

And if you can, ....then try counting that fast in Cantonese! LOL.

Seriously, though, there's nothing wrong with challenging yourself to be ever more relaxed and quick. But who really cares if you think you can do five, seven (William Cheung), ten,...or even more in a second. The quality of your punches and how you can apply them against an opponent are what matter.

[brocklee]

And if you can, ....then try counting that fast in Cantonese! LOL.

Seriously, though, there's nothing wrong with challenging yourself to be ever more relaxed and quick. But who really cares if you think you can do five, seven (William Cheung), ten,...or even more in a second. The quality of your punches and how you can apply them against an opponent are what matter.

Absolutely right :D why throw 10 when you can throw 1 that does 2 jobs at once and has a better outcome

[MA-Caver]

How many chain punches can you guys do in one second. I'm talking ones that go all the way back to your chest and out again.
Try and be honest, im estimating with out proper equipment that i can almost do five in one second. How about you gentlemen and ladies.

All the way back to the chest? Why? When 1 inch, 1 punch will do... :uhyeah:

Are you seeking bragging rights here or is there a point to the "how fast you can punch?"

[matsu]

we practise speed punching to learn how to relax and speed up and to build stamina... so no harm in making it a little interesting by way of a challenge.:angel:

matsu

[Fiendlover]

we practise speed punching to learn how to relax and speed up and to build stamina... so no harm in making it a little interesting by way of a challenge.:angel:

matsu
lol!

[Trueblood]

How many chain punches can you guys do in one second.

It's hard to count for just one second, so I just threw chain punches while watching the clock for 5 seconds, and I did 31. Call it between 5 and 6 a second.

How many can you do properly at that pace without stopping? I figure I can roll maybe two hundred and fifty before my technique starts to drop off from fatigue.

Cheers,
Trueblood

[mook jong man]

Your faster than me mate and i can only hold that speed for a couple of seconds till my shoulders start locking up. You sir are a machine.

[KamonGuy2]

I can throw 200, but don't tell anyone (lol)

I mean be serious guys...

I have a yellow belt in my class who can chain punch very fast but it doesn't meant that he is a good martial artist. i would pit my one punch against most people's twenty punches

I also don't agree that chain punch should be used as a realistic teqhnique - just as a muscle trainer, buliding up good power in your arms for that one hit.

[kidswarrior]

Absolutely right :D why throw 10 when you can throw 1 that does 2 jobs at once and has a better outcomeI kinda like/live by something Ark Y Wong said: If it's not over in three moves, step back and see what you're doing wrong. :D

[KamonGuy2]

Jenna,

Are you a chunner?

[qwksilver61]

I agree with the earlier fella,relaxation,stamina,besides who here has not had to stop mid-drift to change techniques and adapt according to their opponent by way of feeling rather than just blasting though? Just my two cents.....ok I went off course again,me bad

[matsu]

surely you can power on thru if you have your opponent in retreat!!

and by building your stamina from using this technique(competetion) you have the reserve to continue throwing techniques-chain punches or adaptations.
i am constantly being taught that it is multi techniques which almost alone make WC so effective.??

matsu

[qwksilver61]

OK, the least number of techniques to achieve the best results in the shortest amount of time,think of it like a sort of dance between you and your opponent,hence two man sets,wall bag drills, Chi Sau etc,etc.I for one do not see chain punching as a fix all,but it is rapidly effective.Yes,you are right by adapting to your opponent in the heat of battle.Two cents...hey Mr. Matsu,were you the fella starting mook jong training per chance?How is that going?OK back to the subject matter...not too many probably a couple.

[brocklee]

After the first 200 and getting fatigued, you should start throwing out some proper punches. You're form gets better the more tired your muscles get because you shouldn't be using muscles. Once you've gotten to the point where arms cant throw any more, keep forcing them out. You'll get to a breaking point and then realize that it doesn't require any effort to throw out a punch. It just takes will and joint torquing. So punch punch punch till you can't punch anymore and watch how fast you end up perfecting your form. Get to the point where you're throwing 800-1200 a night and you'll develop an elasticity between your shoulder blades that seem to spit the punches out for you.

[matsu]

hey brocklee
yep i think i,ll work with that program start building upto 200+punches.
am bit pi##d off as not had time to practise anythingsince thursday with work committments etc.

qwik- yep that was me,still awaiting the guy on the dummy and happy to work just the wallbag for now. so much to learn already. have become a lil more patient after talking to master james.

matsu

[ArmorOfGod]

How many chain punches can you guys do in one second. I'm talking ones that go all the way back to your chest and out again.
Try and be honest, im estimating with out proper equipment that i can almost do five in one second. How about you gentlemen and ladies.

Video it and post it here through Youtube or Google Video so we can see exactly what you mean in terms of form and timing.

[brocklee]

Video it and post it here through Youtube or Google Video so we can see exactly what you mean in terms of form and timing.

Is it easy to upload videos on youtube? What does it require? I've been wanting to put some up there

[ArmorOfGod]

Is it easy to upload videos on youtube? What does it require? I've been wanting to put some up there

It is very easy. Just move the videos out of your camera and into a file in your computer, then go to one of those sites and follow the directions.

AoG

[mook jong man]

Video it and post it here through Youtube or Google Video so we can see exactly what you mean in terms of form and timing.
Sorry man but i don't have a video camera, besides in Wing Chun circles four or five punches a second is not considered fast.

My own master Jim Fung could do about ten a second. There is probably a lot of examples of very fast chain punchers on you tube.
I was in no way boasting but because i don't train at a school any more i was trying to find where i'm at in my trainning compared to other Wing Chun practitioners.

[KamonGuy2]

All I would say is that there are people who can punch very quickly with no power

The world record holder has no power in his hits

But that is the downfall of trying to hit someone as fast as you can - you forget about the power

As the more sensible people have already stated on thsi thread - I would rather be able to knock a guy out with one or two punches than be able to hit them two hundred times in a few seconds and not cause any damage

What is the point of this thread?

Should I start a new one - 'how fast can you kick?' Or 'how many people have you knocked out?' It as though you are asking people to show that they are amazing or something?

[brocklee]

All I would say is that there are people who can punch very quickly with no power

The world record holder has no power in his hits

But that is the downfall of trying to hit someone as fast as you can - you forget about the power

As the more sensible people have already stated on thsi thread - I would rather be able to knock a guy out with one or two punches than be able to hit them two hundred times in a few seconds and not cause any damage

What is the point of this thread?

Should I start a new one - 'how fast can you kick?' Or 'how many people have you knocked out?' It as though you are asking people to show that they are amazing or something?

Well, my point was more along the line of "in a real fight, you don't need that many punches in that short of a time". I do think that if you can throw 10 true WC punches in a second, they should have the same amount of power as if you threw just 3 or 4 because the power doesn't come from strength...it comes from form, structure and joint torquing

[matsu]

I do think that if you can throw 10 true WC punches in a second, they should have the same amount of power as if you threw just 3 or 4 because the power doesn't come from strength...it comes from form, structure and joint torquing[/quote]

good point...

i think this is a training thread not a "i can" one.:angel:

matsu

[nitflegal]

Quick check yesterday had 3 strikes in the second (jab, reverse, hook). The impact was good and solid on the rope wrapped pillar and nothing broke in my hand, which is a plus. :) That was Bujinkan method though, so might not compare well to WC.

Matt

[brocklee]

Quick check yesterday had 3 strikes in the second (jab, reverse, hook). The impact was good and solid on the rope wrapped pillar and nothing broke in my hand, which is a plus. :) That was Bujinkan method though, so might not compare well to WC.

Matt

Whats a jab? lol ;)

[5masterserrada]

I just saw the thread regarding punches per second. It does mean something because quick and repetative attacking practice can translate easily into eye jabs or quick blinding moves or neck attacks with a knife or other opportunistic weapon (pen, small flashlight, etc.). It also can help train a person to try to get in several punches rather than one. A hand moving at 10 or more punches per second is very hard to stop...period. As far as chain punching to an opponent...if someone can get the drop on you and pummel you in an upward fashion a person can be uprooted by the punches and find it hard to regain balance. Allowing someone to hopefully take advantage of an unbalanced opponent. As far as the one hit quitter punch...I agree with this too. What I am trying to say is that if a person really pays attention, mutiple punches have a much better chance of felling an opponent. Even the MMA are noticing that multiple punches have a better chance of dropping someone. Any good trainer wants every punch to count, but, train their fighters to get in more than one punch. Multiple punches are just harder to deal with. As far as the Ark Wong statement, it is true, for immortals, the rest of us aspire to high standards,or just surviving a fight. Most people do not fall within three punches. It is a good thing that there are not many people walking around who can stop someone with one punch almost every time. It gives guys like me a chance! Well...this is how I feel about punching. Master Ron Saturno

[mograph]

When counting, it helps to think musically. If you count seconds as "steamboats" (one-steam-boat, two-steam-boat), kind of like a waltz, but with a punch on each syllable, that would be three per second. Along those lines, if you were to count three seconds as "inaboutasecond, inaboutasecond, inaboutasecond" (or whatever phrase you can jam in), you'd have six punches per second if you punched on each syllable.

Heck, even I can do that. Weakly. Not for long. With bad form. :D So speed ain't everything ...

[yak sao]

I kinda like/live by something Ark Y Wong said: If it's not over in three moves, step back and see what you're doing wrong. :D


Actually, I think he was talking to himself here........"step back and see what you're doing, Wong"

[yak sao]

We do this in class from time to time....it's just a fun way to see how you're progressing in the speed/relaxation thing.

We use the second hand and count how many times we can punch in 5 or 10 seconds.

[cwk]

I don't really train chain punches that much, at least not more than 3-4 at a time but I can see what people are talking about in terms of building stamina for continuous technique.
In sparring, If I use them at all, it's usually 3-4 punches after I've bridged and controlled enough to have a clear line of attack or if they start back pedaling . This is just to give them something to think about and upset their balance while I try to work in some leg techniques or change the angle to control further and to put myself in a position where I can drop some heavier shots.
Anyway, to answer the original question, I just had a go and can do about 5 without neglecting power and about 7 tappy tappy crap punches with poor form.
For the way I personally express the art, 5 is more than enough for me.

[matsu]

Actually, I think he was talking to himself here........"step back and see what you're doing, Wong"

i just checked back into this post and saw this,i actually laughed out so loud, two people came to see what was so funny!!

i seem to have dropped this from training so i,m glad i did check back in...... another thing to go back on the list.

matsu

[BloodMoney]

Most guys who are trying to chain punch really fast turn their punches into little ***** slaps, ive seen it before, they tighten up the circle and/or get all flicking like with them. If I punch like that I dont know how many I could do in a second, would be a few.

At the "normal" fast speed I punch at I can do 3 maybe 4 punches in a second but they are all solid and I make sure I am sending my energy into the pad (it makes the supports of my hall shake when you do it properly). So yeah 3 good hard chain punches in one sec. I practice that little "3 round burst" often and quite like it, its a good little flurry. You can make it four without punching any faster by adding a jab with the lead hand before the 3 punch flurry too...

[KamonGuy2]

A few guys have said it already, but be careful not to train speed over good technique or positioning. Ive trained with a lot of guys who could hit fast, but they were little taps and they couldnt assert any kind of force into them

Pad training is okay, but Bobs are better, and human beings even better than that.

Wall bags are flat against a wall so there is a lot of resistance suporting it. This means that your punches often sound harder than they are. A human being often doesnt give that support in a fight (ie they move). Its like stamping your foot on the floor (and making a noise) and then doing the same thing but on maybe a trampoline

[Si-Je]

Sorry man but i don't have a video camera, besides in Wing Chun circles four or five punches a second is not considered fast.

My own master Jim Fung could do about ten a second. There is probably a lot of examples of very fast chain punchers on you tube.
I was in no way boasting but because i don't train at a school any more i was trying to find where i'm at in my trainning compared to other Wing Chun practitioners.

Your getting faster Mook! Master Fung was scary fast!

The speed of your punch will increase the power of your punch. Mass x Speed = power
And yes, make sure to go back to your chest. More power and helps to keep you from getting latched.

[snyderkv]

Your getting faster Mook! Master Fung was scary fast!

The speed of your punch will increase the power of your punch. Mass x Speed = power
And yes, make sure to go back to your chest. More power and helps to keep you from getting latched.

Mass x Speed = Power

I thought about this and I think it's incorrectly assumes that speed is a major contributor to the equation. I think Mass is.

Take a tiny amount of mass away and increase speed a lot. You may have lost power
Now add a lot of mass and take a little speed away and you just gained lots of power

I'm using the facts from the 5.56 vs the larger 7x rounds from an AK47. Much more powerfull at 25%? less speed but more than 25% mass.

Anyways

[LuckyKBoxer]

How many chain punches can you guys do in one second. I'm talking ones that go all the way back to your chest and out again.
Try and be honest, im estimating with out proper equipment that i can almost do five in one second. How about you gentlemen and ladies.

I cant seem to get past one...
they always fall down when the first one hits them..
oh well i lose :P

[yak sao]

I'm no physicist....hell, I'm not even sure if I'm spelling it right, but from what I recall the actual equation is force = mass X acceleration....

[mook jong man]

Mass x Speed = Power

I thought about this and I think it's incorrectly assumes that speed is a major contributor to the equation. I think Mass is.

Take a tiny amount of mass away and increase speed a lot. You may have lost power
Now add a lot of mass and take a little speed away and you just gained lots of power

I'm using the facts from the 5.56 vs the larger 7x rounds from an AK47. Much more powerfull at 25%? less speed but more than 25% mass.

Anyways

As far as Wing Chun is concerned , assuming our stance is developed , speed is the main contributor to the equation .

If your stance is ok and you have learned the correct way to coordinate your punch with stepping , then a very large percentage of your body mass will be behind the strike.

Unlike an automatic weapon where you can change the ammunition , we can't suddenly start decreasing or increasing our mass.

Not without spending a fair bit of time dining at the " Golden Arches Restaurant " or putting in some quality time at the pub that is.

You can increase your muscle mass by heavy weight training , but in Wing Chun that can be counter productive.

So that leaves us with increasing our speed , this is done by increasing our level of relaxation through practice of the Sil Lum Tao form , Chi Sau and punching drills etc.

[mook jong man]

I'm no physicist....hell, I'm not even sure if I'm spelling it right, but from what I recall the actual equation is force = mass X acceleration....

Yep , thats right.

And the formula for increasing mass is -

mass = big macs X pizza X beer X chips X k.f.c X more beer X ice cream = big fat bastard

[snyderkv]

Your getting faster Mook! Master Fung was scary fast!

The speed of your punch will increase the power of your punch. Mass x Speed = power
And yes, make sure to go back to your chest. More power and helps to keep you from getting latched.


As far as Wing Chun is concerned , assuming our stance is developed , speed is the main contributor to the equation .

If your stance is ok and you have learned the correct way to coordinate your punch with stepping , then a very large percentage of your body mass will be behind the strike.

Unlike an automatic weapon where you can change the ammunition , we can't suddenly start decreasing or increasing our mass.

Not without spending a fair bit of time dining at the " Golden Arches Restaurant " or putting in some quality time at the pub that is.

You can increase your muscle mass by heavy weight training , but in Wing Chun that can be counter productive.

So that leaves us with increasing our speed , this is done by increasing our level of relaxation through practice of the Sil Lum Tao form , Chi Sau and punching drills etc.

Either you did a lot of talking without saying anything or I'm not understanding your rebutal towards my theory.

I thought the "better to be thin" in martial arts was debunked decades ago after seeing huge guys in the UFC that also trained in the arts to become even more potent than a skinny guy with a little more speed.

And my wing chung coworker who is working on becoming an instructor in the next year does the hip thrust punch as you explained and it was more like a push and looked very innefective and useless in a real fight.

The problem about what your saying is that short punches can be powerfull given time in training. Ok fine, but longer chambered punches which WC is against due to them being telegraphed, will always be that much more powerfull given the same amount of training.

It's like the no replacement for displacement phrase thrown around in the car racing community. A 4 cylinder can easily beat a V8 but given the same time and money in the V8 it will always be ahead "potential wise"

[mook jong man]

Either you did a lot of talking without saying anything or I'm not understanding your rebutal towards my theory.

I thought the "better to be thin" in martial arts was debunked decades ago after seeing huge guys in the UFC that also trained in the arts to become even more potent than a skinny guy with a little more speed.

And my wing chung coworker who is working on becoming an instructor in the next year does the hip thrust punch as you explained and it was more like a push and looked very innefective and useless in a real fight.

The problem about what your saying is that short punches can be powerfull given time in training. Ok fine, but longer chambered punches which WC is against due to them being telegraphed, will always be that much more powerfull given the same amount of training.

It's like the no replacement for displacement phrase thrown around in the car racing community. A 4 cylinder can easily beat a V8 but given the same time and money in the V8 it will always be ahead "potential wise"

Its plain to see that you know stuff all about Wing Chun because you can't even spell the name of the system properly , its Wing Chun not Wing Chung.

What has the U.F.C got to do with weight training and its effect on Chi sau and Sil Lum Tao form .

Maybe your co worker is just crappy at Wing Chun and hasn't been taught properly.

Longer chambered punches maybe more powerful but it also gives me a chance to get inside and hammer your centerline.

Whilst a properly trained Wing chun punch is powerful , there is more to it than that , a lot of its penetrating effect on the human body is caused by the relaxed hand snapping into a vertical fist on impact.

This causes the strike to accelerate even more just before impact with all the force concentrated in a small surface area of the last three knuckes .

This has the effect of the strike causing internal damage whereas with other less efficient types of striking the force explodes on the surface of the target.

I'm sorry but your car analogy is lost on me , as long as ours gets us from A to B I don't really give a toss what goes on under the bonnet.

[mograph]

Here's an interesting article on the physics of punching, at least from the point of view of a karateka:

http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com/2008/09/hitting-harder-physics-made-easy.html

... it may be expedient to jump to the conclusion at the end. :D

A key point for me was to discover/recall that F=ma really means "apply a Force to Accelerate a Mass" ... in other words, it's about how much force we need to apply to accelerate the opponent's mass, not how much force we can generate by accelerating our own mass. Momentum and impulse are more important, it seems.

[snyderkv]

Its plain to see that you know stuff all about Wing Chun because you can't even spell the name of the system properly , its Wing Chun not Wing Chung.

What has the U.F.C got to do with weight training and its effect on Chi sau and Sil Lum Tao form .

Maybe your co worker is just crappy at Wing Chun and hasn't been taught properly.

Longer chambered punches maybe more powerful but it also gives me a chance to get inside and hammer your centerline.

Whilst a properly trained Wing chun punch is powerful , there is more to it than that , a lot of its penetrating effect on the human body is caused by the relaxed hand snapping into a vertical fist on impact.

This causes the strike to accelerate even more just before impact with all the force concentrated in a small surface area of the last three knuckes .

This has the effect of the strike causing internal damage whereas with other less efficient types of striking the force explodes on the surface of the target.

I'm sorry but your car analogy is lost on me , as long as ours gets us from A to B I don't really give a toss what goes on under the bonnet.

I heard this all before and they aren't just WC principals. Funny everyone mentions these techniques but nobody can effectively demonstrate them except in demos. I don't know Mike Tyson looked a little stiff when he swung but I wouldn't argue that he was doing it wrong.

Dodghing a haymaker and hammering a centerline sounds more like a point match then a fight ender. On paper it all sounds good but haven't seen much of that in professional or street fights.

[mook jong man]

I heard this all before and they aren't just WC principals. Funny everyone mentions these techniques but nobody can effectively demonstrate them except in demos. I don't know Mike Tyson looked a little stiff when he swung but I wouldn't argue that he was doing it wrong.

Dodghing a haymaker and hammering a centerline sounds more like a point match then a fight ender. On paper it all sounds good but haven't seen much of that in professional or street fights.

Oh God why do I even bother , have you not heard of the great Wong Shun Leung?
You do realise you are on a Wing Chun forum here don't you .

Now why don't you run along and get back to watching the roid ragers on the U.F.C because as we all know if its not in the beloved U.F.C it can't possibly be effective can it.

[Nicholas82555]

Chain punching and the volume thrown in the shortest amount of time means absolutely nothing without conviction and power. Targeted areas and built of the opponent should also be taken into consideration (ie Fighting Black Kings) Mas Oyama's Kyokushinkai World Tournament back in the 60s. Although the WCners were pathetic the point is power and target of punches.

Granted a style in tournament competition can be hampered by rules that may hinder certain techniques and target areas giving the opponent and advantage.

[mook jong man]

Chain punching and the volume thrown in the shortest amount of time means absolutely nothing without conviction and power. Targeted areas and built of the opponent should also be taken into consideration (ie Fighting Black Kings) Mas Oyama's Kyokushinkai World Tournament back in the 60s. Although the WCners were pathetic the point is power and target of punches.

Granted a style in tournament competition can be hampered by rules that may hinder certain techniques and target areas giving the opponent and advantage.

It means nothing without a stance and proper coordination from the waist , as taught in the Chum Kiu.

Targeted areas and build of the opponent are taken into consideration , which is exactly why we attack the centerline.

You don't go punching a heavy set man in the pectorals where there is muscle , you target the centerline where there is none.

Same as you don't go kicking him in the abdominals where he is likely to have worked on his six pack , you kick him down low in the bladder area where there is precious little muscle.

But the power to damage these targets has to be supported from your stance and correct coordination when moving in your stance , the arms and legs are only conduits to transmit your force from the stance.

No speed = no power
No stance = no power

Stance + speed = power

[Nicholas82555]

Excellent response:))

[geezer]

And my wing chung coworker who is working on becoming an instructor in the next year does the hip thrust punch as you explained and it was more like a push and looked very innefective and useless in a real fight.

Coworker? First off, I'd recommend not basing your opinion on somebody that "orks cows"... whatever that is. Look at the short power developed by the best practitioners. Guys like Emin come to mind. His short punch can blow a hole through you. Same for his escrima teacher, GM Rene Latosa. Now of course it's easier to generate knock-out power with a big haymaker, but how much better to develop good short power strikes so you can get there first.... even if you aren't lighting fast.



The problem about what your saying is that short punches can be powerfull given time in training. Ok fine, but longer chambered punches which WC is against due to them being telegraphed, will always be that much more powerfull given the same amount of training.

Perhaps, but think how much more useful a good hard short punch can be... one that uses your whole body power in a few inches. Yeah, it's rare to see people do that really well, but anything worthwhile is usually uncommon.

[yak sao]

Ah ....the ol' "if it ain't MMA, it's BS" argument
Nowhere is it stated that the WC punch is the most powerful punch in existence.
What is stated is that the WC punch allows for optimum power while providing maximum protection.

Having been on the receiving end of EB's punch, (thank God it was a demo only) I know what a good punch can do

[mook jong man]

Hmm , orking cows , isn't that illegal in some states of America?

[yak sao]

Hmm , orking cows , isn't that illegal in some states of America?


Only the northern states.....damn yankees

[snyderkv]

Oh God why do I even bother , have you not heard of the great Wong Shun Leung?
You do realise you are on a Wing Chun forum here don't you .

Now why don't you run along and get back to watching the roid ragers on the U.F.C because as we all know if its not in the beloved U.F.C it can't possibly be effective can it.

Right, it's a wing chunder forum so I guess that means I must agree with every principal and keep feeding the fan boys with biased bull ****.

I'm simply stating my opinion. You don't have to cry about it.

[mook jong man]

Right, it's a wing chunder forum so I guess that means I must agree with every principal and keep feeding the fan boys with biased bull ****.

I'm simply stating my opinion. You don't have to cry about it.

There's no prizes for second best mate.

And you are entitled to your opinion even if its wrong.

[HonoluluDan]

Mass x Speed = Power


I'm using the facts from the 5.56 vs the larger 7x rounds from an AK47. Much more powerfull at 25%? less speed but more than 25% mass.

Anyways

and both would put you down. Size does not always best speed and technique. If I could get in two shots to a sensitive target compared to one wind up haymaker I would take speed every time.

[snyderkv]

and both would put you down. Size does not always best speed and technique. If I could get in two shots to a sensitive target compared to one wind up haymaker I would take speed every time.

Not true the 5.56 round may not take you down right away especially when they are drugged up. This has been an issue with some serving.

In Vietnam, the AK round would go through small trees that troops could use for cover. Not the 5.56 round.

Not saying the AK is better. I'll take the M16 any day. Just trying to clear that up.

[zepedawingchun]

Not true the 5.56 round may not take you down right away especially when they are drugged up. This has been an issue with some . . . . . .

Not true, depends on what the target is and where it's hit. Hit a big man in the chest, maybe not. A small woman in the chest, I think she's down. Hit either one in the face, they're both down. Placement of the strike is a big factor also.

[wtxs]

Not true the 5.56 round may not take you down right away especially when they are drugged up. This has been an issue with some serving.

In Vietnam, the AK round would go through small trees that troops could use for cover. Not the 5.56 round.

Not saying the AK is better. I'll take the M16 any day. Just trying to clear that up.


Right, it's a wing chunder forum so I guess that means I must agree with every principal and keep feeding the fan boys with biased bull ****.

I'm simply stating my opinion. You don't have to cry about it.

:hmm: ... he sounds just like you-know-who used to post here, and his user name starts with an "C".

[zepedawingchun]

:hmm: ... he sounds just like you-know-who used to post here, and his user name starts with an "C".

Can we mention his name, or is it taboo? Well, just in case, his name ended with an "x".

[wtxs]

Can we mention his name, or is it taboo? Well, just in case, his name ended with an "x".

You "rox" man :bangahead::bangahead::bangahead: