being vocal in class

[rachel]

I just can't seem to get loud in class. Yelling kiai, etc. I have a problem letting it out. any suggestions? I had to do the 1 pinion for my test and I was making the sounds because I had to but not too loud. Hearing myself alone was very distracting knowing all could hear and were watching.

[Master of Blades]

Sounds like stage fright? I have the same sort of problem....I only ever yell for scare tactics for sparring. Not much use doing a ki up when bashing sticks anway :shrug:

[yilisifu]

Think of it as an outward expression of your (fighting) spirit. It's not just a noise. It's YOU!

[Kirk]

Originally posted by yilisifu
Think of it as an outward expression of your (fighting) spirit. It's not just a noise. It's YOU!

Also, the louder you kiai, the less a punch to the stomach or
chest will hurt.

[Aegis]

Don't try to make the kiai from your lungs. Concentrate instead on getting it from right down at your stomach. There's no sense in worrying about making a lpud sound in class if you're being told to, especially if a lot of others are doing it too

[tarabos]

is being loud required in your school?

[KenpoGirl]

But my fellow students and I generally don't kiai when we do our techniques. I myself usually forcefully expell puffs of air throughout the technique and lord knows if I want to I can let a impressive Kiai off when I need to but we as a school usually work in "Stealth Mode" as I like to call it. ;)

[tarabos]

Originally posted by KenpoGirl
But my fellow students and I generally don't kiai when we do our techniques. I myself usually forcefully expell puffs of air throughout the technique and lord knows if I want to I can let a impressive Kiai off when I need to but we as a school usually work in "Stealth Mode" as I like to call it. ;)

the only kenpo (American Kenpo related) people i've ever seen "kiai" on a regular basis is Chuck Sullivan and his Karate Connection people...but they're a bit more based in tradition than EPAK...

screaming and all that was never for me. exhaling does me just fine.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by KenpoGirl
But my fellow students and I generally don't kiai when we do our techniques. I myself usually forcefully expell puffs of air throughout the technique and lord knows if I want to I can let a impressive Kiai off when I need to but we as a school usually work in "Stealth Mode" as I like to call it. ;)


Pretty much the same in our school. We have to kiai during
testing whenever we're in a horse stance, but that's about it.
When Huk came down, the only time he made us kiai was from
a horse stance. It was funny, cause after the VERY first block,
5 minutes into the seminar, he says, "This isn't church!" LOL!

[Aegis]

Think one of the main reasons we shout loud in my school is to learn how much air should be expelled, and how fast. Not really to frighten our opponents, or let everyone in the area know we're there... just to help us learn to control our breath. We start loud and eventually go mostly quiet.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by tarabos

screaming and all that was never for me. exhaling does me just fine.

Same

:asian:

[James Kovacich]

If I'm training Karate then I will kiai and it comes froms from below the navel. Ki or chi is developed over time. I think its natural for a womans kiai to be lower. It will develop along with your training.

If you close your mouth and blow out your nose hard, you should almost be able to feel that spot below your navel. Once you find that spot, just concentrate on your kiai coming from there. Its a part of your mind/body connection which you will find all through your training.

[Jill666]

I'm accustomed to letting out a fierce kiai when the mood strikes- but I remember feeling odd at first. When practicing at home I just breathe- as akja said you can then feel the breath....

also you may notice your kiai change. At first everone seems to make the same sound, but then develop the "spirit shout" that best fits them naturally.

As to being lower, I can't say that, but it's easy to distinguish my voice from the guys I guess from the pitch.

[rachel]

Th e teacher will usually tell us when to kiai but most are quiet doing kicks. My friend is very vocal and feels awkward because no one else does it but I notice if I do make noise the kick has more power.Also in tests he has to hear us breathe or yell loud enough or we have to start over. I'll have to learn to get vocal somehow. it's just not in my nature to call attention to myself.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by rachel
Th e teacher will usually tell us when to kiai but most are quiet doing kicks. My friend is very vocal and feels awkward because no one else does it but I notice if I do make noise the kick has more power.Also in tests he has to hear us breathe or yell loud enough or we have to start over. I'll have to learn to get vocal somehow. it's just not in my nature to call attention to myself.

Some instructors early on, rather than teach someone to discover their own ki, will just tell the students to yell the word kiai, (I don't know what they do in your class) which is technically wrong. Their justification I suppose is they will learn soon. But that is not always the case.

I don't know how they teach kiai to you. So it is pointless to say do this or that. I just understand it and I would say a higher rank in your class can help you out if you don't want to ask your sensei directly. But your sensei should be more than willing to help you discover your ki.

[Cruentus]

Would you like some seemingly stupid advise?

Practice your Kia's in your car, with the windows shut. You are practically sound-proofed. It won't feel as embarrassing as doing this in other places, such as at your home, where you might be self conscience of neighbors or other members of the household hearing. Don't lose your voice, but practice daily until it sounds good enough where you won't feel too self conscience to do it in class. Then, when you practice the Kia in class, do it like you mean it. Everytime. Let it come from deep inside your lungs, not your throat.

When your no longer self conscience, then practice your Kia when you strike an actual target, such as a heavy bag. Then you will get into the essance of what the Kia is actually for. Then you will Kia with the entire body!

Seems stupid, but trust me. :asian:

[Chronuss]

Originally posted by Kirk
Also, the louder you kiai, the less a punch to the stomach or
chest will hurt.

...I can attest to that fact. ;)

[Chronuss]

Originally posted by akja
[B]Some instructors early on, rather than teach someone to discover their own ki, will just tell the students to yell the word kiai, (I don't know what they do in your class) which is technically wrong.

I've been around a lot of people that actually say the word...and it really starts to get annoying... it's sopposed to be a large exhalation of air using the diaphragm to expel the air out of the lungs along with all the toxins in the body and to release endorphines...saying the word just doesn't do that for me. ;)

[JDenz]

I sit in the closet and yell alot. Wait I didn't mean it like I was in the "closet" not that there is anything wrong with that lol.

I usaually let out air or a grunt. Coming into MA from wrestling our Kiai are the best lol. Just ask any of the guys I train with lol. We don't waste the air or energy for a facey sounding Kiai

[Yari]

Originally posted by rachel
I just can't seem to get loud in class. Yelling kiai, etc. I have a problem letting it out. any suggestions? I had to do the 1 pinion for my test and I was making the sounds because I had to but not too loud. Hearing myself alone was very distracting knowing all could hear and were watching.

It's not getting loud voice that's important. It's getting you behind the kiai, and this is done by using your body to do it.

What a good oprah(sp?) singer. It's like his/her singing is from the whole body. That's what I feel is correct kiai, except that in MA it's more focused.

One way to get there is to use your stomach to do the kiai. If you've done Zen (normal Zen, not that modern c***), you'll learn how to use your stomach to breath. It's the same with kiai. There are many other styles that teach you how to breath with you stomach, I just couldn't think of any right now.

/Yari

[sweeper]

Think of it as an outward expression of your (fighting) spirit. It's not just a noise. It's YOU

I guess mine would be silent than.. I would be the knife you didn't see comming :-p

[Yari]

Originally posted by sweeper
I guess mine would be silent


Ahh, the quite silent type ....

Well some like it with noise others dont ;)

/Yari

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Chronuss
I've been around a lot of people that actually say the word...and it really starts to get annoying... it's sopposed to be a large exhalation of air using the diaphragm to expel the air out of the lungs along with all the toxins in the body and to release endorphines...saying the word just doesn't do that for me. ;)

That is was what I was saying. I think for a new student, its OK to teach them to yell. But its the instructors job to guide the student and to not let the "saying the word Kiai" get out of hand. Unless that is just how they do it in their school.

But I would expect that most instructors know by what level they expect certain things out of their students and the kiai would be one of them.

[Chuck]

It's a "spirit shout" to some, in our school the instructor asked me why we shout during a technique. That's what I answered and he said "Yeah, but it also tells me that you're still breathing".

We don't practice any specific word, just a loud, sharp exhale.

[KenpoGirl]

Originally posted by Kirk
Also, the louder you kiai, the less a punch to the stomach or
chest will hurt.

Kirk, I'd have to differ with you on this a bit. It's not the loudness of the kiai that help absorb the punch but the process of tightening the abs when you kiai that does. (I know this is pretty obvious)

The point I am making is that I've seen Gou and Roland and others submit to punches and strikes with the stick in Systema seminars, and they make very little noise. They do though expell air at ever strike. So you can still be silent and condition yourself against strikes.

just my 2 cents. :)

:asian:

[Kirk]

Originally posted by KenpoGirl
Kirk, I'd have to differ with you on this a bit. It's not the loudness of the kiai that help absorb the punch but the process of tightening the abs when you kiai that does. (I know this is pretty obvious)

The point I am making is that I've seen Gou and Roland and others submit to punches and strikes with the stick in Systema seminars, and they make very little noise. They do though expell air at ever strike. So you can still be silent and condition yourself against strikes.

just my 2 cents. :)

:asian:

No argument there ... that's what I do too. But it was that bit
of advice that taught me how to tighten my abs without making
much noise.

[KenpoGirl]

Originally posted by Kirk
No argument there ... that's what I do too. But it was that bit
of advice that taught me how to tighten my abs without making
much noise.

I agree. :asian: :D

[karatekid1975]

Originally posted by KenpoGirl
Kirk, I'd have to differ with you on this a bit. It's not the loudness of the kiai that help absorb the punch but the process of tightening the abs when you kiai that does. (I know this is pretty obvious)

I agree. I don't kihap either. I get yelled at for not doing it, but what's the point? I can get the same effect without a kihap. I got kicked in the stomach by a red belt during a drill last week. I tightened my stomache real quick, and it didn't hurt. He was suprised, because I didn't kihap. We ended up having about the same strength (I'm female, by the way ;) ). We like partnering up together because we can go hard and not hurt each other. He uses a kihap to get the same effect, but I can do it without it.

[Nightingale]

personally, I tend to only kiai when it's natural...

If I'm going all out on a technique, I kiai without thinking about it. However, in class when throwing punches from a horse, that seems kinda silly.

We don't say kiai... we say "ice" or "oos" or "hih" and its a short, sharp burst that comes from a quick exhalation based on clenching muscles found in the diaphraghm.

what that actually means is that when you kiai, you need to abruptly tighten the muscles directly below your ribcage. Make an L shape with your thumb and the rest of your hand... (put your four fingers together, flat, and your thumb sticking out at a right angle) and then put the end of your thumb right over the zyphoid process (the little bone where the two sides of your ribcage meet at the bottem of your solar plexus) so your thumb is vertical and the rest of your hand is flat on your abdomen. your palm is now over your diaphraghm. clench these muscles abruptly. that's what a kiai should feel like.

eventually kiais will come naturally since they serve to add power to your technique. However, everyone, especially females, tend to feel silly for the first year or so, until you realize that everyone else looks just as silly as you do, so you just laugh it off and join the club, and then kiai starts to work for you, and then it doesn't feel silly anymore.

[Cruentus]

It has to be natural. Unfortunatily, it is hard for it to be natural when one is self-conscience. That is why I suggested getting used to the sound of your own loud voice in privacy, to help strip away some of the self-conscienceness. Then it'll be easier to be natural, and for one to start to really understand the purpose of the Kiai.

[rachel]

Thank you for all your responses. It's a help to know why we do it. For added strength in our punches. We don't have to kiai all the time. He likes to hear breathe and power in our movements. I'll practice at home and try to be more vocal in class and tighten those abs too.:)

[rachel]

My regular teacher is on vacation and one of thr black belts is doing his class. She is great! she's very helpful. She put music on tonight to work out to. That's something my teacher has never done. It really helped me yell out during the kicks and punches.If she keeps that up then when my teacher comes back and does the class with no music I should have no problem breathing loud oor yelling.:)

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by rachel
I just can't seem to get loud in class. Yelling kiai, etc. I have a problem letting it out. any suggestions? I had to do the 1 pinion for my test and I was making the sounds because I had to but not too loud. Hearing myself alone was very distracting knowing all could hear and were watching.
I don't make those kiai sounds. I might let out a grunt or some other noise that's instinctive... Concentrating on suppressing it hurts your performance and takes your mind off what you're doing.