Karate Kittens?

[ArmorOfGod]

http://www.karatekids.net/karatekitties.shtml
Comments?
(I'll let everyone else set the tone on this one)

AoG

[Tez3]

Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh! No, No, No, No, NO!

[Kacey]

I have no problem with the program... the name, however, gives me cause for pause, and potential concern - I see no difference between what they say they are teaching and a reasonable quality kids' gym program.

I have more concern about the escalating levels of involvement as students age; I notice the Black Belt Club is "by invitation only" - but the website also states that " Halfway through the Dragons program, students are invited into the Black Belt Club" - if invitation is expected, then it is meaningless. It looks to me like someone at this school has figured out that if you catch them young, your retention may be better - especially as there are milestones along the way that are related to age rather than ability. Of course, it may also relate to a successful kids' and teens' program leading to parents asking for classes for younger siblings; I don't know.

I notice that the program leader, Dawn Barnes, is also promoting a book series titled "The Black Belt Club". The programs listed on the referenced site look more to me like a successful marketing campaign for child care (and I note that Ms. Barnes has a background in Montessori and preschool) than a serious martial arts facility. I understand how such a program comes to be... but I'm not overly impressed by it.

[terryl965]

All I can say is for three hundred and fifty dollars a month, I can buy my son a car. What the hell is wrong with people. By the way I just had to call on this one.

[bowser666]

I second the ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH. What a shameful gimmick! Are we going to have 6 year old black belts running around ? So sad........................

[Tez3]

I have no objections to small children training as long as the syllabus is equal to their age and abilities but at such a young age this isn't martial arts it's child care which you can find at any mother and toddler group much much cheaper.

[14 Kempo]

I second the ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH. What a shameful gimmick! Are we going to have 6 year old black belts running around ? So sad........................

Hint, hint: we already do. I've had two different families come into my school with 8 year olds, claiming them to be second degree black belts in a very popular, not to be mentioned, art. So this would be nothing new.

[CrimsonPhoenix]

And I thought that starting kids before 7 or 8 years old was too young. But 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year olds? Wow.

$350?!? What do these people think they're doing? That's $4,200 for a year !I mean the kids are toddlers and yet they charge an arm and a leg for just starting them out. I'm wondering what the prices are for the older children's classes.

[Andy Moynihan]

Brought this on ourselves, we did, but this is just one more example of all that is wrong with martial arts.

Are half these schools even licensed to provide child care?

[thardey]

My son is almost 2, and has pretty good coordination for his age, but I wouldn't even consider putting him in this, cost aside!

In fact, I want to wait until he knows what Karate is, has asked to try it, and then made him wait a bit, so that he won't take it for granted when he does get to learn.

But he already knows how to hit, though not very well. (hooking palm heel strikes, if I had to name them! Lol.) He should be doing what comes naturally at this age -- climbing stuff, running in circles, throwing things, etc. Just taking him to a (free) park gives him plenty of stimulus to learn coordination and social skills.

Of course, that means that we take him, and not pay someone else to do it, which could be the draw.

[Tez3]

My son is almost 2, and has pretty good coordination for his age, but I wouldn't even consider putting him in this, cost aside!

In fact, I want to wait until he knows what Karate is, has asked to try it, and then made him wait a bit, so that he won't take it for granted when he does get to learn.

But he already knows how to hit, though not very well. (hooking palm heel strikes, if I had to name them! Lol.) He should be doing what comes naturally at this age -- climbing stuff, running in circles, throwing things, etc. Just taking him to a (free) park gives him plenty of stimulus to learn coordination and social skills.

Of course, that means that we take him, and not pay someone else to do it, which could be the draw.


What! You look after your own children, how shocking, whatever next! :boing2:

[Andy Moynihan]

What! You look after your own children, how shocking, whatever next! :boing2:

Personal Responsibility! Sound the alarm, that's two Independent Thought Alarms in one day!!!!!!!

[terryl965]

Hint, hint: we already do. I've had two different families come into my school with 8 year olds, claiming them to be second degree black belts in a very popular, not to be mentioned, art. So this would be nothing new.

Let me guess TKD right and this is what I always talk about.

[Nolerama]

I think the tenets of the class are solid. It socializes the children with parents and other kids. That's a plus. It also sounds like a good idea to teach children the concept of "space" (and the respect of another's space) which is pretty important during their early school years.

The program gets kids acclimated to exercise (as well as the parents involved). That's a good thing too.

I didn't see any belts given in the Karate Kitties program. Regardless, I don't care about belts in that way, so my perspective might be off.

My girlfriend works in a similar program with special needs children that involves gymnastics. One of the exercises involves using a baton to help the children realize spatial proportions. The parents and children in this program all come out as more involved in each others' lives and the bonding between parent/child (IMHO) are top of the line. Plus, the kids get tired and car rides home are quiet.

However, I'm not paying $350/mo for a toddler's program. That's just a little too steep for me. Thardey is right, kids can socialize and climb over stuff for free.

[MA-Caver]

At first from the subject title I was expecting another series of photos or at least a video of cute widdle kitties jumping around and boxing each other ...

Oh, a day care program with a gimmick. Is THAT all? Well for the price they ask they're going to get an exclusive clientel that are among the California elite class of citizens. :idunno: Captialism at it's finest is what I see.
As far as a legit MA-training facility... no. I agree with the others that making a child that young a "black-belt" is nothing more than a gimmick and would only serve to boost a child's self-esteem at best.
Physically it could plant the seed to staying fit. But sometimes that's not always the case.
It could also burn out much too soon for many who may be potential great MA-ist later on in life.

[ArmorOfGod]

Do any of you here live in an area where $350 per month is even an option? Where is this magical place of money falling from the sky that she is teaching in and how many students does she have paying that rate?

Also, I noticed the site says she is 3rd dan. What style is she teaching? What style is she ranked in (out of curiosity)?

AoG

[ArmorOfGod]

Add on top of the high price the cost of gas and groceries skyrocketing (see the "gas affecting training" thread) and I have no idea on the planet how anyone could afford that rate.

AoG

[Shicomm]

Also, I noticed the site says she is 3rd dan. What style is she teaching? What style is she ranked in (out of curiosity)?

AoG

" Dawn Barnes, is a third-degree black belt in Shotokan Karate"

Having a go in the "teaching for free" topic a while ago and now seeing this it makes me feel sorry for US citizens....
Too bad that karate.biz is taken by a German...

/sarcasm...

[chinto]

any martial art could help with moter skills.. but I gota wonder about a few tings.. especially the claims... also sounds like the fees are way incredible... sounds a bit like a con to me..

[Balrog]

The name sucks, but it's a takeoff on the Tiny Tigers, etc.

I have no problem with it, as long as 1) it is taught age appropriate, and 2) they do NOT promote the kids.

If I ever re-open a Tiger program in my school, the kids will stay as White Belts until they move up into the regular program.

[ArmorOfGod]

The name sucks, but it's a takeoff on the Tiny Tigers, etc.

I have no problem with it, as long as 1) it is taught age appropriate, and 2) they do NOT promote the kids.

If I ever re-open a Tiger program in my school, the kids will stay as White Belts until they move up into the regular program.

In another thread here, one school upped their belts from 10 kyus to 12 kyus so basically, there are 3 levels of white belt. I kind of like that idea.

AoG

[Guardian]

Gimmick all the way. Alway someone, somewhere, never fails, but then again, this is America, where if you don't try, you have only yourself to blame.

[Brian S]

Do any of you here live in an area where $350 per month is even an option? Where is this magical place of money falling from the sky that she is teaching in and how many students does she have paying that rate?

Also, I noticed the site says she is 3rd dan. What style is she teaching? What style is she ranked in (out of curiosity)?

AoG

Seems like a good deal to me. Daycare for my two kids is $225 a week!!

[Kacey]

Seems like a good deal to me. Daycare for my two kids is $225 a week!!

The class is 45 minutes, 3 times per week, and requires a parent to participate as well... that's not daycare.

[Brian S]

The class is 45 minutes, 3 times per week, and requires a parent to participate as well... that's not daycare.

It's just a short term daycare,but a rip none the less imo.

[rick_tsdmdk]

Why do people get so offended by programs like this? It is a clean, well-run school with set goals and standards that exemplify martial arts philosophy. I think kid programs are important, the kids are the next generation of martial artists. If we don't get kids involved the martial arts are doomed to a slow death.

[Brian S]

Karate should have standards. Playing with little kids and calling it karate is a problem imo.

[rick_tsdmdk]

Looking at the site, she obviously has high standards as far as expected behavior and what is being taught.

What sort of standards are you talking about?

[still learning]

Hello, Have an open mind on this!

Anything that can help improve the lives of children in a positive way is always good.

Studies have shown the first 3 years of growth for babies... form there personalities and traits....

Racism is big in America...because the children learn from there parents/guardians....from the time they were born.

You can't teach mechanics,electrical engineering,computor repairs or martial arts...the same way you teach adults....

they can learn how to drive toy cars,operate computors,cell phones,three wheel bikes, TV.s ...and so on...etc...

Every child from the time they are born? ....is in the learning process and brain building....

You can teach kids to excerise....but NOT same for lifting weights or Professional type training....is expected or good for 2-3 year olds...but they can do some things...like walking and running...jumping and swing the arms (like for punching).....

HAVE AN OPEN MIND ON WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE TEACHING FOR THESE KIDS...

Same for pee-wee classes...they learn the simple and easier things before the 360's ,etc.....

What is the best age for teaching any child....anything? ...is from the time they were born!

Why do first borns read so much? ...because those parents read to them often..by the time the second comes....NO time

SOME see the stars...others just the mud on there feet....
The real facts comes from professioal studies for results...

So many of "U" are passing judgement so quickly!

Aloha,

PS: Fact -Rapist and child predators are NEVER CURE or rehab....many release after 3 years or less only to do it OVER AND OVER AGAIN..

Yet laws...made by man...can be change by man ...man is imperfect..therefore our laws can be IMPERFECT!

Yet the facts of Rapist/child predators? ...ARE never share in the courts or our laws...

[ArmorOfGod]

If we don't get kids involved the martial arts are doomed to a slow death.

I think charging $350 per month is what dooms the martial arts to a slow death, not teaching kids.

AoG