Kung Fu Panda and the ATA

[Brian S]

The movie was great, the kids and I saw it today!

The ATA is capitalizing on this movie. At the theater they were there in all their colorful glory, one kid even had his XMA ninja suit on.

I guess they want to make more 5 and 6 yr old blackbelts for all of us to look up to. They are a major reason why blackbelts mean absolutely nothing anymore.

They have one form that goes something like "hickory dickery block, the backfist goes up top, the punch down low, the roundkick high, hickory dickory block." Oh brother.......

I'm all for kids having something they can do and be proud of,but why do we have to make a mockery of serious martial artists to do so?

I'm just venting. :snipe2:

[Adept]

I would prefer kids to be doing 'Hckery Dickery Block' than sitting around and playing xbox.

Sure, it's not serious martial arts. Just like a kids riding around the park on a bike with training wheels and streamers on the handlbars isn't a serious tour de france.

Everyones got to start somewhere.

[MA-Caver]

I was wondering when someone was going to mention this movie. Animated or not it could be a good boost for MA's everywhere of all styles.
Yes, it's a comedy... but then so was "They Call Me Bruce", "Rumble In The Bronx", "Kung Fu Hustle", Shaolin Soccer and so on.
Serious MA films tend to be very violent and "over the top" in many ways. Karate Kid was an excellent example of keeping the violent aspect of the art to a minimum. The old TV series Kung Fu did likewise but of course Caine had to get into at least ONE fight per episode.
Basically Hollywood needs good scripts/stories that can be positive on MA and still reflect what it's all really about.

[Brian S]

I would prefer kids to be doing 'Hckery Dickery Block' than sitting around and playing xbox.

Sure, it's not serious martial arts. Just like a kids riding around the park on a bike with training wheels and streamers on the handlbars isn't a serious tour de france.

Everyones got to start somewhere.

That's not even a good comparison. Sure, they are doing something positive, but are 3rd degree 9yr olds the answer?

[Brian S]

I was wondering when someone was going to mention this movie. Animated or not it could be a good boost for MA's everywhere of all styles.
Yes, it's a comedy... but then so was "They Call Me Bruce", "Rumble In The Bronx", "Kung Fu Hustle", Shaolin Soccer and so on.
Serious MA films tend to be very violent and "over the top" in many ways. Karate Kid was an excellent example of keeping the violent aspect of the art to a minimum. The old TV series Kung Fu did likewise but of course Caine had to get into at least ONE fight per episode.
Basically Hollywood needs good scripts/stories that can be positive on MA and still reflect what it's all really about.

I take no issue with the movie whatsoever.

The ATA is a positive play martial art for soccer moms,but the line should be drawn somewhere.

BTW, ATA stands for American Tae Kwon Do Association so why do they call it ATA Karate?

[Adept]

That's not even a good comparison. Sure, they are doing something positive, but are 3rd degree 9yr olds the answer?

"3rd degree" is only a label. Why get so worked up about it? At least they are doing something active, martial arts related, and fun. As they mature, so will their approach to the martial arts.

[SageGhost83]

"3rd degree" is only a label. Why get so worked up about it? At least they are doing something active, martial arts related, and fun. As they mature, so will their approach to the martial arts.

I agree. It is something positive and it is yet another means to spread martial arts and make them more mainstream. Sure, it is geared toward the kids and the soccer moms, but hey, more mainstream exposure to the martial arts is never a bad thing, and those who are really serious will go deeper and find the truth anyways.

[Brian S]

I see your points. The ATA does good things for the kids.

[chinto]

That's not even a good comparison. Sure, they are doing something positive, but are 3rd degree 9yr olds the answer?

i have to agree.. in the style I train in you may NOT test for shodan ho till you are 18 years of age or older. I agree with this. there are no " jr. black belts" either!

[Dave Leverich]

The ATA used to have that same rule, in fact it was 21 for 3rd.
Basically I think it's a Pandora's box issue, they already let it out and can't go back and change it to either kids ranks or find another solution.

Thing is, I don't judge my belt vs someone elses, do you?

[Sukerkin]

Thing is, I don't judge my belt vs someone elses, do you?

Rank 'inflation' (and de-valuation) is a problem that needs to be addressed across many arts but that was such a good point from Mr. Leverich I wanted to emphasise it.

Apparent skill level is what is important.

Some examples I can draw on from my own experiences are:

i) that in my empty-hand days I was under-ranked because I stopped taking gradings after black sash but continued diligent training. If a newly minted black belt was to compare himself to me he would get a false measure (you'd hope :D).

ii) In my present training I am the same rank as the other 'senior' student of our sensei. Despite having trained for about the same amount of time (me a bit less) and having been instructed by the same sensei, we have different strengths and weaknesses. To simply compare nidan to nidan would not tell an accurate story.

Rank is a rough guide to how you've progressed on the road from your starting point, not an absolute 'skill meter'. That's why a sensei will always want to see someone new, with such-and-such a rank, go through their paces so he can judge for himself where they sit on his scale.

[YoungMan]

I understand the points about not taking it too seriously. The problem is, with schools doing this, neither will anyone else. Remember, perception is everything. You see a bunch of kids lined up in goofy costumes doing stuff like this, and people will get the impression that Taekwondo is just a kid's activity.
In all fairness, I could see schools from our organization doing demos for movies like this as well, but they would make it an actual Taekwondo demo. They would not dress the kids up in goofy costumes and do stupid rhymes (I hope not anyway!).
I imagine it is called ATA Karate purely as a marketing ploy.

[Adept]

Remember, perception is everything.

You are very nearly right. It's actually "Perception is nothing".

Who cares what other people think about TKD, or whatever your chosen art may be? Who cares what opinions they form about your skill level?

If a person thinks "All black belts must be equal, and this nine year old child is a black belt, so all black belts must fight like nine year old children" then that person is wrong. Thats their problem, not ours, and if you don't feel like eplaining to them why they are wrong, then don't advertise your training to people.

[Cirdan]

I have seen the Kung Fu Panda commercial.. funny but the ATA commercials make me laugh far more.

[YoungMan]

Adept, perception is everything. When you see someone walk down the street wearing ripped jeans, a dirty t-shirt, and obviously hasn't bathed in three days, you automatically assume they are an uneducated slob even if they are a college-educated genius with a 180 IQ. Why? Because perception is everything.
How Taekwondo (and other arts) presents itself goes a long way in determining how people perceive it. If people see martial arts students as 10 year old black belts wearing ridiculous ninja uniforms, they are going to make assumptions, regardless of whether or not those assumptions are based in reality.
Why should I care what people think? Because those people are the next generation of MA students who determine if my art lives or dies. If they are not impressed by what they see, they go elsewhere and the art dies.

[YoungMan]

Adept, perception is everything. When you see someone walk down the street wearing ripped jeans, a dirty t-shirt, and obviously hasn't bathed in three days, you automatically assume they are an uneducated slob even if they are a college-educated genius with a 180 IQ. Why? Because perception is everything.
How Taekwondo (and other arts) presents itself goes a long way in determining how people perceive it. If people see martial arts students as 10 year old black belts wearing ridiculous ninja uniforms, they are going to make assumptions, regardless of whether or not those assumptions are based in reality.
Why should I care what people think? Because those people are the next generation of MA students who determine if my art lives or dies. If they are not impressed by what they see, they go elsewhere and the art dies.

[Sukerkin]

That was a very well phrased position, sir, with quite a bit of valdity to it :tup:.

However, I do think that perhaps we, as martial artists, don't have a good feel for how dismissive or uninterested in our arts the general public is.

Perhaps that's even more reason for presenting a respectible and 'adult' front but I'm not convinced it would make much difference.

[YoungMan]

Unfortunately, you will always have people who are motivated in martial arts by the wrong reasons (money, fame, opposite sex etc.) and have no problems turning the arts into a carnival show to achieve those ends.
Do I care about how perceive me as a Taekwondo stylist? Absolutely I do. I want people to respect what I practice and how. That's hard to do if I'm presenting my art in the ways described above.

[Christina05]

That's not even a good comparison. Sure, they are doing something positive, but are 3rd degree 9yr olds the answer?

I know what you mean. lol its sad really.

[Adept]

Adept, perception is everything. When you see someone walk down the street wearing ripped jeans, a dirty t-shirt, and obviously hasn't bathed in three days, you automatically assume they are an uneducated slob even if they are a college-educated genius with a 180 IQ. Why? Because perception is everything.

But your perception of this person will have absolutely no bearing on how intelligent or well educated they are.

And a persons perception of how effective my martial arts are, has absolutely no bearing on how effective they actually are.

Perception only means something if you rank yourself through the eyes of others.

[Flying Crane]

...but hey, more mainstream exposure to the martial arts is never a bad thing...


I cannot agree with this statement. I often find myself wishing the martial arts were still rather obscure and less well known. Of course I also realize that my own opportunities to train would probably have been severely limited or even non-existant without some level of mainstream exposure. But still, I find that often mainstream exposure is to the detriment of the martial arts. In my opinion, anyway.

[bowser666]

I cannot agree with this statement. I often find myself wishing the martial arts were still rather obscure and less well known. Of course I also realize that my own opportunities to train would probably have been severely limited or even non-existent without some level of mainstream exposure. But still, I find that often mainstream exposure is to the detriment of the martial arts. In my opinion, anyway.

I also agree that it used to be obscure and times are changing though, and the Arts are slowly dying, and it is up to us as MA practitioners to spread the word and keep the teachings alive, and pass them on.

It is a sad truth that the more mainstream a art becomes , it becomes diluted and loses its traditional aspects. TKD is a big example of that in my opinion. It has gone far astray from its traditions and is regarded by most as a sport. As far as mainstream exposure, let MMA fall to that particular sword IMO. People are soaking it up right now and who knows , maybe it will give exposure to other MA. On second though , now that I think about it, it will only give exposure to Muay Thai and BJJ, because that is what every cookie cutter MMA fighter has in their reportoire these days. I'm sorry to say. Only one that I have seen that I can recall is Cung Le and he does San Shou. Sorry if I seem overly opinionated,as you can probably guess I am not a big fan of MMA.

[Dave Leverich]

On the MMA tangent, I don't think it's having a negative impact on traditional martial arts at all.

Look at the top MMA fighters for examples of excellence in a particular art; Couture - phenom greco-roman wrestling, Mashida - amazing shotokan (and bjj, we just never see it), GSP - amazing wrestling/amazing kyokushin, the list goes on and on.

I do agree that _most_ MMA fighters seem to have the same bag of tricks, but the ones that stand out are exceptional in their original art first.

[Balrog]

The movie was great, the kids and I saw it today!

The ATA is capitalizing on this movie. At the theater they were there in all their colorful glory, one kid even had his XMA ninja suit on.

I guess they want to make more 5 and 6 yr old blackbelts for all of us to look up to. They are a major reason why blackbelts mean absolutely nothing anymore.

They have one form that goes something like "hickory dickery block, the backfist goes up top, the punch down low, the roundkick high, hickory dickory block." Oh brother.......

I'm all for kids having something they can do and be proud of,but why do we have to make a mockery of serious martial artists to do so?

I'm just venting. :snipe2:

I'm not too hot on the Spaceman Spiff suits and the amount of time wasted doing XMA. However, let's be realistic. What did any parent watching that demo see? Discipline, courtesy, respect - all the things they want their kids to learn. Whether you're wearing sweats, whites or the SpiffSuit, those are what shine through.

[chinto]

The movie was great, the kids and I saw it today!

The ATA is capitalizing on this movie. At the theater they were there in all their colorful glory, one kid even had his XMA ninja suit on.

I guess they want to make more 5 and 6 yr old blackbelts for all of us to look up to. They are a major reason why blackbelts mean absolutely nothing anymore.

They have one form that goes something like "hickory dickery block, the backfist goes up top, the punch down low, the roundkick high, hickory dickory block." Oh brother.......

I'm all for kids having something they can do and be proud of,but why do we have to make a mockery of serious martial artists to do so?

I'm just venting. :snipe2:


I saw the movie and liked it.. it was fun.. but ya i didn't see any of the XMA ninja suits or even gi's there. but I am not surprised that in some of the bigger city arias you do... as to the idiotic thing of giving 11 and 12 year olds Black belts is ridiculous! let alone some kid 5 and 6.. and ya not long ago in my town one of the TKD types gave a shodan to a kid 6!!!! insanity!!