How have Movies/TV effected Martial arts.

[J-kid]

I posted these messages on sherdog and thought i would share them with you guys as well.

Would you say Movies and TV are helping martial arts or spoiling it.

Today in school I went out of my way asking random high schooler’s and people outside of school what they thought about martial arts.

I asked a bunch of questions.
For example…
First I Explained Who Bob Sapp was then explained how tuff he is.
I then asked ‘What if Bob Sapp fought Bruce Lee who would win.

The answer I got was shocking and even more shocking is why they thought that.
The most common answer was Bruce lee would knock Bob Sapp out in a second,
Then I explained why this 99% impossible,(in this augment Bruce Lee was in his prime)

Here is what I got back, “I have seen the movies the cameras couldn’t keep up with his hands” or “in the documentary about Bruce Lee he knocked people back with 1 inch punch 8 feet.

It was nearly impossible to convince these people other wise.
Then I brought up Jet Li who even claims he’s not really a fight he is more an actor.
I said what do you think about Jet Li they said he was awesome etc.
Then I said have you ever seen the UFC or heard of it, most said yes
Then I stated in the upcoming movie Cradle to the Grave. Jet Li kicks Titos ass.
Do you think in real life Tito would lose to Jet Li?
I got a lot of yes’s.
I finally found a few people who knew some stuff on UFC and they totally agreed with me that the weakest fighter in the UFC and most trained fighters in MMA could destroy Jet Li. ( No disrespect intended for Jet Li or Bruce Lee)

I moved on to ask them what they thought about martial arts in general asking people questions like what martial art do you think is the strongest.

I got a lot of Kung fu and Karate as the answer.
Even though most forms of these martial arts were destroyed in the UFC.
(We don’t need to bring up the difference between street and ring; the UFC was the proving ground for martial arts PERIOD.)

I asked them where they got there information from they said “ Kung Fu movies etc.”
They also believed in things like being able to death touch using mystical chi. (which we all know is pretty fake just like No touch Knock outs)

This being said do you think its good that these martial arts videos like Cradle to the Grave are coming out seeing how people really don’t know Fiction from reality.

Not to mention the fact it shows UFC fighters being destroyed by Jet Li.
(You can’t really blame Tito and Chuck and the rest for doing the movie, even if it was taking the quick buck)

But none the less I believe this will set back the mixed martial arts community.

Because of the Fact that if you want to buy something there will always be someone there to sell it to you for a price.

Fake martial arts schools nick named MCDOJOS will profit big off movies like this and brain washing helpless people who just want to learn how to defend them self.

With so many Freaks , Frauds , and weirdo’s all lining there pockets showing useless fighting skills and signing a lot of people up on contracts and feeding them belts left and right for a price, shouldn’t there be a realer side a movie that shows the true strength of mixed martial arts.

But on a lighter note would we even be here doing mixed martial arts without some of those movies.

I feel as if we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

But if we all expose the truth in Martial arts maybe we can some day,
Clean up the martial arts would.

[J-kid]

I forgot one more thing that they say usually.
“My art is 5,000 years old and is proven.”
(Great, the horse has been used for transportation for about 5000 years + as well.
Now with all things technology improves, If you don’t believe me you can race your horse VS my sports car. The British found this out the hard way when Americans where ducking behind

[J-kid]

the last post was supost to go after this one.

I would like to note three things.
1 being that people today have trouble because of the fact that they believe that if they see it on TV it must be true.
(Their general thinking being, No one would risk lying to the public so it must be real.)
The problem is that when everyone wants to believe so bad, they get sucked in.
Most of the time people who have other reasons join their local gym (most likely TKD)
Not just to learn how to fight for something to do and to gain some respect/self esteem.

What they get is a mental disorder where they become like obedient dogs and when they discover the truth that they had been had they cant except it.

It’s like bringing down there beliefs,
At most Tradional Gyms they try and break you with submission behaviors habitts that most people pick up fast.

First they break you with bowing then make you study the history and over time you become modeled into a person who will take commands and dance on command.

If they told you the sky was Gold you would never question them and they would always shroud them selves with secrecy. You become a Kata machine.

Later on when you get beat down you start to surf the Internet seeing what you did wrong and come across chat boards and messages like this and find your very morals in question.

Many people find them selves’ hurt and mislead, then find themselves in MMA
I know there is a difference between the Cage/Ring and the street but the real question is what can a art do on the street if it cant hold it self in a controlled environment like the octagon then how will you be able to fight a knife wielding guy on the street any better then a MMA. The fact is they can’t most of the time and the UFC was the best way to prove it.

I’ve heard this many times in the defense of TMA (Tradional Martial Arts)
1.The ring is not the street. (Well where would you like to test your skills in the middle of the street or on a football field. It’s like Dr. Sues said where would you like your green eggs and ham. I am 99% sure that no matter where it is they will have a excuses.)
2. Their friends will attack you as well. (Great well I don’t know about you guys but it’s a challenge for any martial artist to fight multiple opponents, Now if your not able to fight one person how are you goanna take three pissed off people.
3.You can’t go to your back on the street because their friends will attack you.
(Well yeah that is for the most part true but what they fail to realize people don’t jump to there back, they get the take down and mount. There lower knowledge of other arts shocks me like there dumb comments.)
4. On the street you can eye hook and bite/pull hair. (So what, they fail to realize we can do that to and most of the time it will just make people mad doing that stuff. The fact is clear that anyone will do what it takes to win. Don’t think because ‘If you fight in the ring you get used to fighting with rules’ You stated it yourself the ring is not the street and you just like anyone else will fight dirty. But now you have an Experienced fighter fighting dirty you in deep ****.

Few closing comments, Ring fighters train full contact all the time where your every day martial artist wont go threw half of the intense training they do.

The Ring/UFC maybe not the street but it is pretty close and if you can’t it in there, then you won’t have more luck on the street.

The best defense on the street is a GUN.


__________________

[J-kid]

White Belt

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Washington State.
Posts: 8
Hey trunks I would love to hear your side, please enlighten us all.
I don’t want to have a flame war with you I just want to here why you think the way you do, nothing more, nothing less.

Also I do remember when Jim Brown said. "I didn’t see any disciplines at work, I just saw swinging!"

Back then the announcers where winging it half the time, If anyone remembers when Royce Gracie fought that wrestling champion.

The announcers where saying “looks like Royce is in trouble.” Then when the wrestler guy taped out due to triangle chock they gave a billion difference explanations (they had no clue to what had just happen)

I believe most of the announcers had different thoughts on martial arts back then and most didn’t have much in the way of grappling back then and that left them clueless.

[J-kid]

Hey Nightwing
I do agree with some of your post,
Because I do know TMAist who are pretty good at what they do in there fighting arts.
I also believe that some arts are better then others.
For instance you would use a butter knife to cut down a tree and you wouldn’t use a chain saw to butter your bread (well most of us anyways).
Some things just work better and that’s how the world works.
Its just like saying a old computer VS a brand new with state of the art technology.
Which one is gonna be better, the one with the bugs worked out and upgraded or old busted weak stuff.
If you know anything about computers the newer computer would be a lot better then the old one. With time comes change and over time you improve. Which means take what works dump the rest…..
But we can’t forget the past ether and its important that we remember were we came from and the struggle it took to get this far. That’s why I fear movies like Cradle to the Grave will push back the MMA community. Its bad enough with have librils running around trying to ban combative sports, because mommy wouldn’t let them go horse around with there friends when they where young. But now we have to deal with UFC champions going to the quick buck and when people see these movies they end up thinking. Man that Kung fu destroyed there kickboxing, wrestling, BJJ, etc.

The proof is all around you for instance if you where to use word and write down some different martial art names and you capitalized Kickboxing and didn’t Kung fu it would say its wrong and want you to un-capitalize kickboxing and capitalize Kung fu.

You see its not just one big thing its just a bunch of different little things and then it becomes a big PROBLEM for all of us.

[J-kid]

These are the posts i made on my thread.

As you can see some adress people directly.

heres the thread
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65455&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

[J-kid]

opps i didnt copy all on one of the first post i had,

Here we go.
I forgot one more thing that they say usually.
“My art is 5,000 years old and is proven.”
(Great, the horse has been used for transportation for about 5000 years + as well.
Now with all things technology improves, If you don’t believe me you can race your horse VS my sports car. The British found this out the hard way when Americans where ducking behind trees in the Revolutionary war

[yilisifu]

Oh well - here we go again...more of this MMA vs. traditional martial arts stuff written, I suspect, by people who've never been in more than a couple of street fights and never, ever been on an active battlefield...

* Has anyone considered that Gracie was trained in a TRADITIONAL martial art? Good golly.

*Traditional martial arts are still around because they work. Like horses.

*Who said the argument about the opponent's friends jumping you while you play grabass on the ground is unfounded? Tell you what - I'll take you up to North Omaha, let you get into a tussle with a fella there while his friends are present and see if your statement holds water.
It doesn't.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

Would you say Movies and TV are helping martial arts or spoiling it.

To give martial arts more exposure they have done a great job.
To show what REAL martial arts are they couldn’t have done a worse job.


Originally posted by Judo-kid
I asked a bunch of questions.
For example…
First I Explained Who Bob Sapp was then explained how tuff he is.
I then asked ‘What if Bob Sapp fought Bruce Lee who would win.
The answer I got was shocking and even more shocking is why they thought that.
The most common answer was Bruce lee would knock Bob Sapp out in a second,
Then I explained why this 99% impossible,(in this augment Bruce Lee was in his prime)

Your kidding right?
Sapp would end Lee.
I have met Sapp……he is real big and real strong and real tough.
Lee’s whimpy ass little 145 pound body couldn’t generate enough power to damage Sapp.
I’ll give you an example of how strong Sapp is………his grip power was measured at 315 lbs. an average man has about 160 to 170lbs grip strength.

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by yilisifu
Oh well - here we go again...more of this MMA vs. traditional martial arts stuff written, I suspect, by people who've never been in more than a couple of street fights and never, ever been on an active battlefield...

This kind of crap will never end.
There will always be some numb nuts out there that has seen one too many MMA events and will confuse what he watched with an actual street fight with no rules.

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
[B]the last post was supost to go after this one.

I would like to note three things.
1 being that people today have trouble because of the fact that they believe that if they see it on TV it must be true.

Kinda of like the UFC

Originally posted by Judo-kid
It’s like bringing down there beliefs,
At most Tradional Gyms they try and break you with submission behaviors habitts that most people pick up fast.

First they break you with bowing then make you study the history and over time you become modeled into a person who will take commands and dance on command.

If they told you the sky was Gold you would never question them and they would always shroud them selves with secrecy. You become a Kata machine.


Seems similar to what they do to you in a military boot camp

Originally posted by Judo-kid
Later on when you get beat down you start to surf the Internet seeing what you did wrong and come across chat boards and messages like this and find your very morals in question.

Many people find them selves’ hurt and mislead, then find themselves in MMA

Some may find they prefer the physical conditioning of a sport martial art. But what happens when you get older and you aren't as fast and as strong as you used to be.....


Originally posted by Judo-kid

I know there is a difference between the Cage/Ring and the street but the real question is what can a art do on the street if it cant hold it self in a controlled environment like the octagon then how will you be able to fight a knife wielding guy on the street any better then a MMA. The fact is they can’t most of the time and the UFC was the best way to prove it.


Ok so how does ring fighting prepare you against a knife weilding attacker?


Originally posted by Judo-kid
I’ve heard this many times in the defense of TMA (Tradional Martial Arts)
1.The ring is not the street. (Well where would you like to test your skills in the middle of the street or on a football field. It’s like Dr. Sues said where would you like your green eggs and ham. I am 99% sure that no matter where it is they will have a excuses.)


Kind of like the same excuses UFC fanatics use all the time that because it works well in the controlled ring enviorment it's effective on the street.

Originally posted by Judo-kid
The best defense on the street is a GUN.

actually the best defense is to run away

[tarabos]

it's cool that you like to hold "man on the street" quizzes for people. but i think you already knew the answers to the questions you asked those people before you even asked them.

in the grad scheme of things does it really matter what people think is effective self-defense and competition? i don't think so.

i've always enjoyed people's ignorance of the MA....i find it mildly amusing. in my younger years i would have pleaded with them to convince them "who would win" this and who would win that...but now i like to just listen and smile. the only time i will discount any martial arts myths is if it is to a student at my school who is there to learn the real thing and needs that sort of guidance and experience passed on to them. some guy on the street or in a bar? don't care.

[tarabos]

on that note however i do enjoy the occasional "bruce lee vs. jet li" argument with my buddy at the local chinese restaurant.

[Ty K. Doe]

I started in martial arts roughly a year before you (judo-kid) were born. Movies were the same then as they are now. I personally haven't noticed a difference in the way people percieve martial arts the way they were then compared to now.

There are always going to be a majority of people who are ignorant of the fact that movies are just movies. Martial arts interest me, so I watch movies that interest me. I know reality from fantasy. There are fools who can't distinguish that. Some of them like to watch those fantasy movies and believe they are learning martial arts. Well, when they go around start causing trouble on the streets because they think they're some bad a$$ kung fu master, that's my advantage if they try to stir it up with me.

So sit back, let people think what they want to think and keep your advantage. If they become serious about martial arts after watching a movie, they'll be brought back to reality. If you feel the need to educate those who think movie martial arts are real, then give your two cents worth. But don't make such an issue of it that it causes conflict.

Those guys in the UFC are probably big and bad enough that they could whoop up on anybody regardless of their mma training. That doesn't guarantee that if you train in mma that your automatically going to be the badest martial artist around. Those guys, to me, are the equivelant to professional athletes and are going to wow anyone who watches them. They're great PR for their sport. Everyone seems to look at the Gracie's to prove that their style is the ultimate. Those guys are just bad mo-fo's. They were blessed with great gene's. Everyone in the UFC who trained under their system are great professional athletes.

The difference from the 80's to now, in my view, is that back then everyone wanted to be a ninja. Now everyone wants to be in the UFC.

[Cruentus]

Movies: Not realistic enough at all, but people are dumb enough to believe the hype. That's one reason why too many "martial artists" out there can't fight.

Will it change: Not for awhile. People like fantasy, and people like to be lied too. Too many people would rather go to a crappy MA school and have mystical smoke blown up there @$$ then to go to a realistic one where they learn what really works and what doesn't. Many people don't like the realism because realism shows how powerful you aren't, and how good your not. Many "martial artists" would rather go somewhere that makes them feel like they are good, and that they are powerful, then go somewhere that teaches reality.

UFC vs. traditional: If you think that getting in the ring is "the same" as a real fight, then your the one who needs a reality check. NHB fighting is a sport. It's a tough sport, and it can translate into a fight, but it's not the fight. NHB fighting is no more reality then a Tai Chi form. The bottom line is you need to be able to translate whatever you do (forms, sparring, NHB, Drills, etc.) into reality, or your martial art is useless. No matter what I say, though, there will be some clown who will get on here and try to defend there mma training, or their traditional training and discuss how it is superior, completely ignoring my point. The nonsense will never end.

Question: Who is Sapp, anyways? Just curious cause I have never heard of him.

Thanks,
:asian:

[tarabos]

Originally posted by PAUL
Question: Who is Sapp, anyways? Just curious cause I have never heard of him.

Thanks,
:asian:

Bob Sapp is a K-1 fighter. I think that's what he's doing now at least. If memory serves correctly he has fought in Pride as well...but i may be mistaken, i don't follow him that much. the buzz around sapp is his immense size and strength. some people say he's the real deal...some say he's just a big bully that never actually fights anyone his own size because of the screwed up weight divisions.

he was brought into professional fighting by Mo Smith. not sure if maurice is still his trainer or not. go to sherdog.com and you should find a lot of info about him there. some of it won't be helpful info of course if you look in the forums...but he may have a highlight vid by now. haha...there's another thing i'm not sure of. either way, if you've never watch the highlight vids on sherdog you should check them out...they're pretty cool.

[tarabos]

Originally posted by PAUL
Will it change: Not for awhile. People like fantasy, and people like to be lied too. Too many people would rather go to a crappy MA school and have mystical smoke blown up there @$$ then to go to a realistic one where they learn what really works and what doesn't. Many people don't like the realism because realism shows how powerful you aren't, and how good your not. Many "martial artists" would rather go somewhere that makes them feel like they are good, and that they are powerful, then go somewhere that teaches reality.


i don't see how it will ever change. some people just don't want to be so serious about martial arts. either that or they have a different focus. there are so many different directions you can take in martial arts...nhb, kickboxing, full-contact tournament sparring, point sparring, forms competition, etc...then there are people who do not enjoy it on any level and simply quit.

that fact is whether you may agree or not...martial arts cannot simply be defined anymore as "self-defense." it's what you make of it. people enjoy lots of things on different levels. people play basketball all the time, but they may not join a team, and they most likely will not play professionally. some just do it for fun, for excersise...the same goes for martial arts these days. times change, and this is the direction things are headed in..not the opposite.

like i said before in regards to the action movie deal...does it really matter what one person does or thinks in regards to the martial arts? do your own thing the way you want and you'll be rewarded for it one way or another.

[Kirk]

If MMA is the end all, be all of MA, why is it that the first half dozen
UFC's or so (before a rules change), hardly any fights went to
the ground. Before the weight divisions, a Kenpoist, weighing
about 250 (Keith Hackley, or Hackney or something like that)
totally knocked out a 6 hundred something fighter, WHILE
STANDING!?

MMAers have all the tainted facts. Too bad there's
no proof behind them.

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Kirk
MMAers have all the tainted facts. Too bad there's
no proof behind them.

now you've gone and dun did it...:D

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by tarabos
now you've gone and dun did it...:D

I agree......here we go

:shrug:

*Straps in seatbelt and gets ready for a 32 page ride*

:rofl:

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
I agree......here we go

:shrug:

*Straps in seatbelt and gets ready for a 32 page ride*

:rofl:

No S**t. We should have this thread locked right now.:soapbox:

[Kirk]

Don't worry, I won't post on this thread anymore ... you have my
word.

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Kirk
Don't worry, I won't post on this thread anymore ... you have my
word.

lol...it's no biggie...but the fuel has been thrown on the proverbial fire now...haha...

we'll see if any "flames" spark.:D haven't seen a good flamewar in a while.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by PAUL
No S**t. We should have this thread locked right now.:soapbox:

I dont talk **** but I disagree about the Thread lock. I trust Kirk and I doubt he would say something like that less he has something in mind. Let it play out for a bit. :asian:

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
I disagree about the Thread lock.

yeah...every thread deserves a chance...this one is going pretty well i think.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by tarabos
yeah...every thread deserves a chance...this one is going pretty well i think.

Thats cuz no one interesting has answered Kirks statement lol!! :rofl:

[tarabos]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
Thats cuz no one interesting has answered Kirks statement lol!! :rofl:

lol...quite true...

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by PAUL

Will it change: Not for awhile. People like fantasy, and people like to be lied too. Too many people would rather go to a crappy MA school and have mystical smoke blown up there @$$ then to go to a realistic one where they learn what really works and what doesn't. Many people don't like the realism because realism shows how powerful you aren't, and how good your not. Many "martial artists" would rather go somewhere that makes them feel like they are good, and that they are powerful, then go somewhere that teaches reality.



You hit it right on here. It is, IMHO, difficult for most MA schools to go with the traditional, hard core approach to teaching the MAs because if they go the traditional way they would lose a large number of their students when those students realize what actual "old school" MA training entails. It's hard, it's tedious, you get grabbed, hit and thrown around, and you get bruised a lot. So a lot of schools find that they need to water down their curriculum, mine included. :shrug:

In order for a good portion of MA schools to stay afloat they need to water it down. You'll keep and attract more students if you lean more toward aerobic kickboxing/taebo etc., rather than going the traditional old school fighting MA way. There are students, BBs included, at my dojang who never come to self-defense/sparring class, never competed in sparring tourneys and are content with just doing poomse, one-steps and non-contact sparring. That's fine, and more power to them. It's because of these students that my school is able to survive.

But, what this type of situation has begotten are plenty of MAists out there who are Black Belts who think just because they're Blacks they can kick anybody's ass. Wrong. They're thinking that since they're BBs if they should happen to get into a bar room brawl they're going to come out ahead. Wrong again. More than likely they'll get their ass kicked. Not all of course, but, a good number.

Mc Dojang BBs will find out they are utterly unprepared to back their stuff up when reality socks them square in the face.

Getting back to the movies question, I like that they have put the spotlight on and made the MAs popular, but, take movies for what they are. Movies are fake, they're a good way to escape. It's just Hollywood... :cool:

[tarabos]

Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin
In order for a good portion of MA schools to stay afloat they need to water it down. You'll keep and attract more students if you lean more toward aerobic kickboxing/taebo etc., rather than going the traditional old school fighting MA way. There are students, BBs included, at my dojang who never come to self-defense/sparring class, never competed in sparring tourneys and are content with just doing poomse, one-steps and non-contact sparring. That's fine, and more power to them. It's because of these students that my school is able to survive.

yes...quite right. it's hard for a good school to both stay in business and keep its moral foundation of teaching only quality martial arts. a lot of people expect tradition and knuckle push-ups and loud screaming i think when they sign up at a karate school...and a lot of people expect something more along the lines of a casual environment where they can socialize a bit and work at their own pace, earning belts and possibly trophies along the way.

schools do need certain gimmicks to stay in business. NAPMA, love 'em or hate 'em, is full of profitable business gimmicks. i'm not apposed to using them, just overdoing them and making them the focus of the school.

even most kicboxing gyms have cashed in on the aerobic kickboxing phase...it's almost foolish not too. and a lot of martial arts schools have "cash cow" type students. people who come in that are fairly well-to-do and want to pay top dollar for private lessons only. most of them are just paying for belts...some actually learn a thing or two....but they help keep the school afloat, like it or not.

when you're truly not in it for the money and perhaps run a program out of your basement or just have a couple students...then you can be as much as a hard-ass as you want to be. but in general MA schools have to give in to the ocassional "casual" student. there's no shame in it...just don't make it so your whole school is based around half-assed martial artists...

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by tarabos
yeah...every thread deserves a chance...this one is going pretty well i think.

I agree. I was only kidding about an early thread lock.:D

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by PAUL
I agree. I was only kidding about an early thread lock.:D

LOL Backing down already! I expected more! :rofl:

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
LOL Backing down already! I expected more! :rofl:

That's IT!!

Lets fight! I'm Irish anyhow.....so get off my land, bloke!

There....maybe my blantent challanges will get us locked up, w/out me "backing down" :rolleyes: :rofl:

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by PAUL
That's IT!!

Lets fight! I'm Irish anyhow.....so get off my land, bloke!

There....maybe my blantent challanges will get us locked up, w/out me "backing down" :rolleyes: :rofl:

Irish eh? Go drink some beer and leave us men to our games :p

[Cruentus]

I Will!!!!!!:drinkbeer

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by PAUL
I Will!!!!!!:drinkbeer

That was easy.......:eek:

[sweeper]

hmm.. as to the MA in movies thing, I don't like how they are shot.. I mean I know what comes up in a movie isn't going to be realistic in the least bit. I knew that when I was a fairly small kid before I had any notion of what martial artists did.. What pisses me off is there are no long shots in martial art movies (well is some but not many) This is the reason I hate jet li movies, they cut on every technique.. Also it's far to often that the fight scenes look like a dance more than a fight (yes I know that's how they are practiced) just should be more dynamic and more entertaining (like the matrix :-p). As to it advancing MA? I think by your post you meant advancing MMA. In that case no.. If you want to advance MMA get it off PPV and onto ESPN. (and BTW one of the biggest opponants of MMA is John McCain... he isn't very lyberal.(by most standards))

JK if you think martial art is all about self deffence, can you tell me why most notable selfdeffence teachers don't make NHB fighting a part of their teaching?

Ok, I'm going to post for you the list of the UFC "rules" as quoted from http://www.ufc.tv/learnUFC/rulesUfc.asp (that's off the official UFC site), this is just so everyone is on the same page and no one has to go off to another site to get this info.

Now it seems to me alot of these rules do tend to favor a ground fighter, you will note that some tactics common in various MA are totaly out of the question, for example eye gauging as a distraction.. can't happen at all. same with small joint submissions..



UFC rules, as approved by the
Nevada State Athletic Commission - July 23, 2001

Weight classes:
1: Lightweight - over 145 lbs. to 155 lbs.
2: Welterweight - over 155 lbs. to 170 lbs.
3: Middleweight - over 170 lbs. to 185 lbs.
4: Light Heavyweight - over 185 lbs. to 205 lbs.
5: Heavyweight - over 205 lbs. to 265 lbs.

Bout duration:
1: All non-championship bouts shall be three rounds.
2: All championship bouts shall be five rounds.
3: Rounds will be five minutes in duration, with a one minute.
4 :A one-minute rest period will occur between each round.

Fouls:
1: Butting with the head.
2: Eye gouging of any kind.
3: Biting.
4: Hair pulling.
5: Fish hooking.
6: Groin attacks of any kind.
7: Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8: Small joint manipulation.
9: Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10: Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11: Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12: Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13: Grabbing the clavicle.
14: Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15: Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16: Stomping a grounded opponent.
17: Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18: Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19: Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20: Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21: Spitting at an opponent.
22: Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23: Holding the ropes or the fence.
24: Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25: Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26: Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27: Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28: Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29: Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30: Interference by the corner.
31: Throwing in the towel during competition.

Ways To Win:
Submission by:
1: Physical tap out.
2: Verbal tap out.
3: Technical knockout by the referee stopping the contest.
Decision via the scorecards, including:
1: Unanimous decision.
2: Split decision.
3: Majority decision.
Draw, including:
1: Unanimous draw.
2: Majority draw.
3: Split draw.
4: Technical decision.
5: Technical draw.
6: Disqualification.
7: Forfeit.
8: No contest.




fouls that directly hinder a striker:

4
9
10
11
14
15
16
17

so a little over 1/3 of the fauls are directed at strikers.. this doesn't say anything about people who like to stay on the ground, it just limits the ability of people who prefer to strike as a means of attacking. and the limitartions on some of those dirty techniques also alter the way you deffend against submissions on the ground.. for me my favorite method of dealing witha strong ground fighter is small joint submission followed by pinching, with those rules in place that's out of the question, as are one hand chokes.. now I don't know if you would call what I practice (jun fan/JKD JF/JKDGA) a traditional art, but given these rules alot of what we do both stand up and on the ground is out of bounds in UFC. And if you think UFC is a street art.. go roll around on a sidewalk.. you don't have to do stand up-takedown, just do UFC style fighting on a hard un-even surface. do it in full street cloths (that'sanother thing.. shin kicks are not nearly as effective without shoes)..

Bottom line is to fight in the UFC I would have to change major elements of my training focus, yet to fight on the street I would not.. wich brings up another element.. if you fight someone on the street they can quite effectivly employ other methods than what you train against, in otherwords UFC style fighting can not be used as a scale to rate martial arts for street effectiveness because you can't fight against what you would fight against on the street. It's comparing apples and oranges.

[sweeper]

forgot to mention, I tihnk if you are looking for a way to practice a martial art so to better prepare yourself for self deffence than I would suggest doing something kinda like the dogbrothers, basicly just practicing all out, not in a competition in a normal sence because when you have aset rules they style changes to accomodate those rules, but go full contact in all the ranges you see as nessisary.. I guess that can apply to any art traditional or not, if you realy test things out to see what works and what doesn't than you will better know how to deffend yourself, you will get the benafits of MMA competition training without the hinderences. I think that is what alot of TMA practitioners talk about when they talk about training hard.

[Cruentus]

Well put, and good info!!!!!

[Kirk]

Sweeper, great post. I've copied it, and saved it locally, with a
modification so that if I see the opportunity to post it in other
places, that it won't be first person (e.g. I study JKD). Hope
that's okay?

[sweeper]

that's fine with me : )

[Ronin]

Have been a martial artist and a part time actor I can tell you there is several factors that come into play on this subject. First martial artists on screen do the scene over and over again, sometimes a scene 5 minutes takes a month to film. The camera angles are also carefully crafted to put the star in the best light. Often stars go on a quick diet to look sharp. Which adds to the film "coolness" After the fight scene the are ofen covered up and during the shots their bodies arent shown their ripped quality fades. Remember Stallone in Rocky III he had a bodybuilders body at 3% fat. No heavyweight boxer in the world would reduce their bodies to that ripped condition. It simply wouldnt hold up to the constant pounding a boxer goes through. Most stars that are martial artists in real life perform feats that only can be done on film. They are employed and often have to do what the producer and director say regardless if the action or movement would be considered impractical. Jet Li, like Bruce Lee is a fine martial artist. Bruce even performed basic movements in his films due to the fact that advanced techniques would confuse the audience. As for the UFC they too are at what they do, however placed in a movie setting how many of us would pay to see a guy sit on top on another and pound him for five minutes until he submits. Each person provides us with entertainment lets enjoy them for what their worth.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Ronin
They are employed and often have to do what the producer and director say regardless if the action or movement would be considered impractical.

How often are they told to perform fights in such a way that is
outside their style's foundation? E.g. a TKD guy being told to
perform Kung Fu?

[DAC..florida]

WOW this thread has brought out the best people!


Bruce lee against tito no ring no rules? my money would be on bruce lee. Once you leave the ring its all heart it depends who wants the victory more, of course first you must have skills but what kind doesnt matter everyone thinks thier style is the best and i think they should but is it really. I like to be in close maybe my oponent like the distance, If I cant get in on them then I am forced to fight their fight wich gives them the advantage, so who knows what would really happen outside the ring!


As far as the movies I can see your points and agree that movies have done good and harm to the M.A.'s.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by DAC..florida



As far as the movies I can see your points and agree that movies have done good and harm to the M.A.'s.

As with everything.......:asian:

Happy birthday DAC..florida by the by :rofl:

[DAC..florida]

Thank you!!!.....I am impressed that you noticed. One more year older by age but i feel two younger.

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
Thank you!!!.....I am impressed that you noticed. One more year older by age but i feel two younger.

LOL I make a habit of sending members pm's saying Happy Birthday, but today I figured seeing as I was replying to your post might as well add it in :D

[DAC..florida]

Pretty cool! thanks again.