Lyoto Machida uses karate in mma?

[Brian S]

Do you believe Machida's success in mma is due to his karate training? Kata?

He is the first mma fighter I have seen doing kata during the pre-fight promotionals.

During his fight with Tito Ortiz Joe Rogan made several comments regarding the high level of karate that Machida has accomplished and he attributed that to his striking and elusiveness.

http://www.mmascraps.com/ (http://www.mmascraps.com/)

Scroll down for the fight.

Machida vs. Franklin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuyDlSujlic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuyDlSujlic)

Machida vs. Bonnar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8zTpAFFsQQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8zTpAFFsQQ&feature=related)

Machida vs. McDonald

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvAUOzRz_DE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvAUOzRz_DE&feature=related)

There are others too...

Machida karate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nqbAfzrg-E&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nqbAfzrg-E&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2vOxjGeRwM&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2vOxjGeRwM&feature=related)

[Empty Hands]

Do you believe Machida's success in mma is due to his karate training? Kata?

I believe that his success is due to a natural talent at fighting, honed from a very young age due to the influence of his father and refined through dedicated training and discipline. Given that early and extensive commitment and work, he would be a formidable fighter from any background.

That said, I'm sure his karate does give him a certain unique edge. Some of those elements were clear in his last fight with Ortiz, particularly the kicks. However, karate in general does not grant expert and elusive timing and distancing, that seems to be Machida's talent alone. Every art works on those skills, yet few karateka or anything or anyone else can match Machida's skill.

[SageGhost83]

Oooh, interesting. You know, I hear that strikers are experiencing more and more success in the MMA these days and several of the upper echelon fighters are great strikers. I hear that one of the guys, not sure what his name is, uses TKD and is very good. I wouldn't be surprised if Lyoto Machida did use Karate in MMA, everything works if you train it for the environment that you plan to use it in.

[Nolerama]

I believe that his success is due to a natural talent at fighting, honed from a very young age due to the influence of his father and refined through dedicated training and discipline. Given that early and extensive commitment and work, he would be a formidable fighter from any background.

That said, I'm sure his karate does give him a certain unique edge. Some of those elements were clear in his last fight with Ortiz, particularly the kicks. However, karate in general does not grant expert and elusive timing and distancing, that seems to be Machida's talent alone. Every art works on those skills, yet few karateka or anything or anyone else can match Machida's skill.

I noticed those kicks as well, but I don't think they offered as much in terms of damage. Maybe a changeup in timing? Something to throw Ortiz off?

[Makalakumu]

Interesting thread. Machida is using a lot of the basic skills that karateka learn very early on, but he had developed them to such an advanced level it would be a mistake to say that all karateka can do that. That said, there are several kata that introduce the fighting concepts that Machida developed. The key word is introduce...

[Jai]

Another good thread about the use of Karate in MMA. By watching him fight you can tell Machida has a very solid background in Karate. The way that he applies the basics is beautiful and it shows in his striking which as said before has quickly become the way of success for alot of fighters in MMA. A new trend dating back to the old day maybe?

[DavidCC]

he showed excellent use of his forearms in defending takedowns.

[SageGhost83]

Interesting thread. Machida is using a lot of the basic skills that karateka learn very early on, but he had developed them to such an advanced level it would be a mistake to say that all karateka can do that. That said, there are several kata that introduce the fighting concepts that Machida developed. The key word is introduce...

He took his karate to the next level? I thought that it was illegal for Karateka to update the style (nah, just kidding :lol2:). Machida succeeded where many Karateka would've failed.

[Ybot]

Anyone know what style of Karate Machida studies? There have been many good MMA fighters that came from Kyokushin. Just be curious if he is another, or if he came from some other style.

[Empty Hands]

Anyone know what style of Karate Machida studies?

Shotokan, apparently. However, the screen credits during his last bout listed a black belt in "Machida Karate", so perhaps he or his father started their own offshoot of shotokan.

[D Dempsey]

I believe his father is the head of the Brazilian shotokan organization.

[Jai]

I looked back, there is a credit to Shotokan, so either he has stuided it or a direct offshoot with strong Shotokan ties.

[Brian S]

I believe his father is the head of the Brazilian shotokan organization.

That is correct. He started studying when he was 4 and got his blackbelt when he was 13. His last karate competetion was in 2005, I think.

[MJS]

I thought the fight this past weekend was great. I believe they said that he adapted his Karate to fit the MMA framework. I must say that he did an excellent job with it! :) I'm sure we'll see alot of him in the future.

[MeatWad2]

I looked back, there is a credit to Shotokan, so either he has stuided it or a direct offshoot with strong Shotokan ties.

His father is a Shotokan master...that's who he studies under. He has seriously awoken at 5:30 am every morning to workout with his father. No wonder he's so good. Please don't forget though that he is a Black Belt in BJJ. He does use this to his advantage because he can avoid the grappling game if he has to.

[chinto]

I do not know if it is because of karate or natural talent or several other factors. I do know that most MMA matches do not allow a lot of things that many karate systems teach for fighter safety.. But I can tell you that a good karateka, properly trained is a very dangerous person to attack on the street. I do know that in MMA there are a lot of rules that you must conform to, and either way karate teaches stiking and kicking and blocking and evading strikes and at least in a lot of Okinawan systems, locks brakes and throws..( the throws would not be legal in MMA.. you can not role out of most and they would seriously injure some one if not controlled.

[Brian S]

There are no rules against any type of throws in mma.

[Makalakumu]

There are no rules against any type of throws in mma.

Spiking someone on their head is illegal in many MMA competitions.

[Brian S]

1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.


I stand corrected! :flushed:

[allenjp]

His father is a Shotokan master...that's who he studies under. He has seriously awoken at 5:30 am every morning to workout with his father. No wonder he's so good. Please don't forget though that he is a Black Belt in BJJ. He does use this to his advantage because he can avoid the grappling game if he has to.

...or let it go to the ground and dominate it there. The commentators were constantly saying during that fight how good he is on the ground. They didn't mention his rank in BJJ though.

[Ybot]

Nice. Shotokan huh? Cool. Machida is an impressive competitor. In the end though, I really don't see anything in his fighting that looks distinctively like "karate". Not saying the Karate didn't contribute to his fighting skills, just that in the end the things he works in the ring look much like what everyone else works.

The guy that has pulled off the stuff that looks like movie karate in competition, though, is Cung Le (yes, I know he's not a karate practitioner). His fight with Frank Shamrock was really impressive.

[Makalakumu]

I don't know if most people, including many karate practicioners, know how karate is supposed to actually look like.

The history in how the art was transmitted is so convoluted that their are a lot of misconceptions. The "big stance static karate block" is what most people see, but the actual art is far more nuanced.

Karate is much more of a clinching and close range striking/grappling art then people think. I don't know if many people, much less MMA people, practice this aspect of karate.

[Empty Hands]

I don't know if many people, much less MMA people, practice this aspect of karate.

I do! It always surprises my sparring partners, who like to dance at long range.

[MattJ]

I don't know if many people, much less MMA people, practice this aspect of karate.

"Much less MMA people" do clinch stuff? Not sure if you're joking or not, but all MMA people train clinch.

[allenjp]

"Much less MMA people" do clinch stuff? Not sure if you're joking or not, but all MMA people train clinch.

Actually I think the reference was to whether or not MMA folks learn their clinch prowess from karate, or from other arts such as judo, bjj, Muay Thai etc...

[Makalakumu]

Actually I think the reference was to whether or not MMA folks learn their clinch prowess from karate, or from other arts such as judo, bjj, Muay Thai etc...

This is exactly what I meant. Most karateka do not practice the clinching that karate kata teaches.

[MattJ]

Ah. My bad. Misunderstood.