How does your Kwoon/club/school aproach sparring in Wing Chun?

[dungeonworks]

Just curious to hear how your school does or does not spar. I am two months into it and would like to hear how you all go about it. I know some Wing Chun sticks to the drills and does little or no free-sparring for various reasons....and I am not saying any is wrong or right since I am not in a position to judge anything Wing Chun.

I will say that I have seen lots of stuff on YouTube...some which looks absolutely USELESS and HIDEOUS by any name, but I really am intrigued by some of the Russian clubs posting on there as well as some of the European approaches to sparring. Don't know what educated eyes would see but it looks cool and practical.

[matsu]

.quote
"...and I am not saying any is wrong or right since I am not in a position to judge anything Wing Chun.

I will say that I have seen lots of stuff on YouTube...some which looks absolutely USELESS and HIDEOUS by any name, "

i might be wrong to point this out fella but if you are not in a position to judge WHY make that comment?
i am new to this board and perhaps i am taking your question wrongly but.......

as a beginner to wing chun coming from a different type of MA i have nothing but respect for something i know nothing of. same with bjj jkd or any of the arts.

my club practises sparring in a real life senario type of way.
if you are looking at chi sao then it might not look effective but it is a drill to prepare people to learn more about reflexes positioning sensing and eventually honing their art.

if you can refine your question a little more perhaps an experienced member will give you a more definitive answer.
matsu

[dungeonworks]

.quote
"...and I am not saying any is wrong or right since I am not in a position to judge anything Wing Chun.

I will say that I have seen lots of stuff on YouTube...some which looks absolutely USELESS and HIDEOUS by any name, "

i might be wrong to point this out fella but if you are not in a position to judge WHY make that comment?
i am new to this board and perhaps i am taking your question wrongly but.......

as a beginner to wing chun coming from a different type of MA i have nothing but respect for something i know nothing of. same with bjj jkd or any of the arts.

my club practises sparring in a real life senario type of way.
if you are looking at chi sao then it might not look effective but it is a drill to prepare people to learn more about reflexes positioning sensing and eventually honing their art.

if you can refine your question a little more perhaps an experienced member will give you a more definitive answer.
matsu

You are taking that statement wrongly. Re-read it again and notice where I wrote "...by any name". Sloppy is not hard to see, nor is useless and hideous. I am speciffically stating that I cannot tell "Good Wing Chun" or "Bad Wing Chun". The Wing Chun label seems to be the root of discord between more than a few Wing Chunners...no matter how they spell it Ving Tsun, Wing Chun, Wing Tsun, Wing Tzun....ect.

I'm new to Wing Chun, not martial arts or fighting in general therefore when something looks like "junk" from an outside (NON-Wing Chun) perspective it isn't hard to tell. There are lots of it on YouTube (on ANY topic, not just Martial Arts), hence my curiosity of how members here handle their sparring or fighting skills. I believe I asked this in my post clearly and even asked if it is more drill based (chisao, push-hands type stuff) or do you include free-sparring.

I am in no way saying Wing Chun is junk, not by any stretch....I wouldn't even waste my time if I didn't see something in it (which I do see a LOT I can use in it). I was referring to a few of the videos on YouTube with way out of shape, soft, sloppy (by any style's standards), and unrealistic to any real world scenario I have seen in person or video. There are a lot of good things on there too, but since this snippet is under the microscope, I will explain....

My thread was out of curiosity and nothing more. My martial motivation has been reignited since I found Wing Chun as I have wanted to train it since childhood....and yeah, the curiosity started with the whole Bruce Lee thing and the very few Chinese martial arts schools in my area at the time. Back then, TKD, TSD, and a few Karate schools (Isshinryu and Koei-Kan) were all we had in my area. I have done loads of full contact sparring, ametuer kickboxing, dabbled for a year or so in MMA/Grappling, and had a few bar room scraps here and there back in the day. I am liking the Wing Chun because it fills the gaps on things not taught in other arts. The drills, which we do a lot of, they really help me understand the sensitivity. The angling and taking center, that was never taught in any of the arts I have done...well, directly as part of a curriculum anyways, but some centerline principles are in other arts, just not as refined and focused on as I've seen thus far in Wing Chun.

[matsu]

my apologies if i sounded like a dick.i,m still not sure i read it like how you meant it,but my school teacher many years ago said my comprehension sucked!!
ive not seen to much on youtube or similar. and now i def wont be going looking.:0
in future i will refrain from posting a quick off cuff reply
matsu

[brocklee]

Spar ? No. There's no way to justify points nor can you place limits to WC. We either play or do competition chi sao and drills. Thats what I've been taught. Im sure it varies from sifu to sifu. Mine wont even teach to children.

[KamonGuy2]

We integrate boxing motions with loose wing chun footwork and get comfortable at long range
This involves doing very light pak saos (which are similar to 'slips' in boxing)
It is important to do sparring if you are a martial artist, to increase your movement, reactions against incoming attacks and to help our stamina

I must emphasise that it is unwise to spar using just wing chun techniques. The punches have to adapt to deliver punching at long range
The nature of wing chun is such that you get in, stay in and attack your opponent. You do not want to get used to hitting then jumping back etc and prolonging the fight

We only do sparring at Kamon because sometimes you get caught in a long range fight and chunners aren't always sure how to deal with that

The other method is to do feeding techniques where you practice drilling in your wing chun attacks. Then you take it up a level (when you are ready) and get the person to put up a little resistance (single guard etc). Then when you are ready, you do the full contact, full resistance. It does look a little sloppy, but is very effective at street level

[dungeonworks]

my apologies if i sounded like a dick.i,m still not sure i read it like how you meant it,but my school teacher many years ago said my comprehension sucked!!
ive not seen to much on youtube or similar. and now i def wont be going looking.:0
in future i will refrain from posting a quick off cuff reply
matsu

Absolutely no apology needed Matsu....I should because it is NOT rare for me to have one point in mind while another comes out through my grammar. It happens daily in real time too with my verbal skills....just ask my very understanding wife! :roflmao:

[dungeonworks]

...and there is some very well done Wing Chun stuff on YouTube too. I didn't mean to say it was all bad, just a some exceptions and even that is just my opinion and from a "fighting persp[ective" and not Wing Chun since I couldn't tell you what is "good" WC or "bad" WC.

A member here GrayChuan puts up a lot of vids from his school. I enjoy seeing them and at one time was looking for his Sifu's (Sifu Ali Rahim) Wing Chun when they were in Michigan or shortly after they left to Louisville. Looks like a good program there.

[dungeonworks]

Spar ? No. There's no way to justify points nor can you place limits to WC. We either play or do competition chi sao and drills. Thats what I've been taught. Im sure it varies from sifu to sifu. Mine wont even teach to children.

Thanks Brocklee, I wasn't even thinking competition. The placing limits on Wing Chun is a point I have heard a few times now, and understandably so. I am just starting to learn to roll hands, the motion, not the complete drill. We do a lot of other simpler drills and the more advanced guys Chi Sao. I am still in that purgatory between learning Wing Chun and unlearning my Karate habits (hate to use that phrase and mean only that it is so different in Wing Chun compared to ways I am rooted in).

The thing that prompted my question was different vids I have seen of Wing Chun sparring and how different some people do it or don't do it at all. Again, I am not judging one way or another or saying one way is worse or better.

Thanks Brocklee

Gary

[dungeonworks]

We integrate boxing motions with loose wing chun footwork and get comfortable at long range
This involves doing very light pak saos (which are similar to 'slips' in boxing)
It is important to do sparring if you are a martial artist, to increase your movement, reactions against incoming attacks and to help our stamina

I must emphasise that it is unwise to spar using just wing chun techniques. The punches have to adapt to deliver punching at long range
The nature of wing chun is such that you get in, stay in and attack your opponent. You do not want to get used to hitting then jumping back etc and prolonging the fight

We only do sparring at Kamon because sometimes you get caught in a long range fight and chunners aren't always sure how to deal with that

The other method is to do feeding techniques where you practice drilling in your wing chun attacks. Then you take it up a level (when you are ready) and get the person to put up a little resistance (single guard etc). Then when you are ready, you do the full contact, full resistance. It does look a little sloppy, but is very effective at street level

Thanks Kamon Guy. I think every style looks at least a little sloppy at the street level because the ante is upped over a ring or sparring session.

So when you guys spar are you transitioning between boxing and Wing Chun or just modifying for longer range? Sounds pretty interesting.

Gary

[brocklee]

Ive been reading alot about "Slop" and have viewed it LOTS on youtube. The thing is, a seasoned practitioner wont display slop. The more you learn and practice, the less moves you have to use during a battle or just playing because you're more relaxed and in tune with the situation. A while back if an opponent approached me with 3 separate punches...I would counter with 3 different blocks and then start applying offense afterwards. Now, if I have the same opponent throwing the same 3 punches, I would throw up a single bong on the first punch, rotate towards the second punch thrown and block the 3rd punch with my centerline punch. Less motion = less thinking = more control.

[geezer]

...A while back if an opponent approached me with 3 separate punches...I would counter with 3 different blocks and then start applying offense afterwards. Now, if I have the same opponent throwing the same 3 punches, I would throw up a single bong on the first punch, rotate towards the second punch thrown and block the 3rd punch with my centerline punch. Less motion = less thinking = more control.
Interesting, but hardly the most efficient approach. Of course, in sparring, anything can happen, and bong sau may be necessary...but it is one of the few strictly defensive techniques in the art (as normally applied). How much more efficient to counter with a deflecting counterpunch, or any of the many simultaneous defense and counter moves like tan-da sau, pak-da sau, gaun-da sau, etc. Just my opinion.

[brocklee]

Interesting, but hardly the most efficient approach. Of course, in sparring, anything can happen, and bong sau may be necessary...but it is one of the few strictly defensive techniques in the art (as normally applied). How much more efficient to counter with a deflecting counterpunch, or any of the many simultaneous defense and counter moves like tan-da sau, pak-da sau, gaun-da sau, etc. Just my opinion.

There are many moves possible in that situation. I was using that as a reference to describe how less is more in most situations. I actually am kind of addicted to the bong sao. It's taken me so long to get my shoulder to stay flat while throwing it up there that I ended up practicing it all the time and now I can't stop. lol. Anytime my friends play around, I always seem to bong it up. It definitely will be a downfall for me now that I think about it. Thanks for pointing out a weakness, I was completely unaware.

It's still is a great move though because it has so many possibilities.

[brocklee]

Interesting, but hardly the most efficient approach. Of course, in sparring, anything can happen, and bong sau may be necessary...but it is one of the few strictly defensive techniques in the art (as normally applied). How much more efficient to counter with a deflecting counterpunch, or any of the many simultaneous defense and counter moves like tan-da sau, pak-da sau, gaun-da sau, etc. Just my opinion.

And you're right about the "most efficient" aspect of it. Something my sifu would have said.

[CuongNhuka]

I think that Free sparring (by any rules) would be pointless in a Wing Chun school. Everyone is doing Wing Chun, which is about close ranges with the hands. Therefore, everyone is likely to go to close range, and use the hands. It would end up as Chi Sao. The same principle is true of any style which focuses on a specific range/weapon. That is why people should really cross-spar. You know, take your Wing Chun skills into a Tae Kwon Do school, and mix it up with some of there guys. Otherwise, sparring just becomes Chi Sao.

[Mic]

my school does full contact sparring no points or anything just use what u have learned to fight. I have seen some sparring on you tube where they just went at it but thats not what im talking about. with us the sifu is watching to make sure you are working your wing chun not just messy beating each other.we must use our foot work and stay with in your structure. we spar get a taste of real combat so you dont freeze up and you learn to continue to breath stay in your structure and fight so if it happens for real you can be better prepared.

[brocklee]

I think that Free sparring (by any rules) would be pointless in a Wing Chun school. Everyone is doing Wing Chun, which is about close ranges with the hands. Therefore, everyone is likely to go to close range, and use the hands. It would end up as Chi Sao. The same principle is true of any style which focuses on a specific range/weapon. That is why people should really cross-spar. You know, take your Wing Chun skills into a Tae Kwon Do school, and mix it up with some of there guys. Otherwise, sparring just becomes Chi Sao.

So true.

[dungeonworks]

my school does full contact sparring no points or anything just use what u have learned to fight. I have seen some sparring on you tube where they just went at it but thats not what im talking about. with us the sifu is watching to make sure you are working your wing chun not just messy beating each other.we must use our foot work and stay with in your structure. we spar get a taste of real combat so you dont freeze up and you learn to continue to breath stay in your structure and fight so if it happens for real you can be better prepared.

That sounds like a great approach. I like the sound of that.

[dungeonworks]

I think that Free sparring (by any rules) would be pointless in a Wing Chun school. Everyone is doing Wing Chun, which is about close ranges with the hands. Therefore, everyone is likely to go to close range, and use the hands. It would end up as Chi Sao. The same principle is true of any style which focuses on a specific range/weapon. That is why people should really cross-spar. You know, take your Wing Chun skills into a Tae Kwon Do school, and mix it up with some of there guys. Otherwise, sparring just becomes Chi Sao.

I agree on the cross sparring, but feel sparring others in the same style would better you for that. How else could one make that decision if they can't hone the skills in their art against itself? (just a thought, not really a disagreement so much)

[KamonGuy2]

Thanks Kamon Guy. I think every style looks at least a little sloppy at the street level because the ante is upped over a ring or sparring session.

So when you guys spar are you transitioning between boxing and Wing Chun or just modifying for longer range? Sounds pretty interesting.

Gary
Yeah the idea is that students can feel comfortable in any fighting range. If a wing chunner tries to close the gap with every opponent, he/she will find themselves one day strugglig, especially against someone who is good on their feet (karate guys, boxers etc). The idea is to be able to 'hold your own' until an opportunity presents itself

We don't want to train pro boxers, but give students confidence in every area, rather than leaving them trying to tan sao a roundhouse kick!!

I have started training intensley in other arts and it has really boosted my confidence. I am pleased to say that the wing chun is extremely effective against the other artists (even black belts). About 1 in 9 times I would get caught by a quick high kick or fast back punch, but generally the reactions of wing chun and strong structures came in handy

If anyone doubts their wing chun, my advice is to go out and try other arts. Most arts like boxing, karate, BJJ and TKD are extremely quick but you will see straight away how your skills fair
(and that was not meant as a reccomendation to go and challenge other schools or 'try it on' with their students, but go in humble and you will see where your wing chun works)

[brocklee]

Yeah the idea is that students can feel comfortable in any fighting range. If a wing chunner tries to close the gap with every opponent, he/she will find themselves one day strugglig, especially against someone who is good on their feet (karate guys, boxers etc). The idea is to be able to 'hold your own' until an opportunity presents itself

We don't want to train pro boxers, but give students confidence in every area, rather than leaving them trying to tan sao a roundhouse kick!!

I have started training intensley in other arts and it has really boosted my confidence. I am pleased to say that the wing chun is extremely effective against the other artists (even black belts). About 1 in 9 times I would get caught by a quick high kick or fast back punch, but generally the reactions of wing chun and strong structures came in handy

If anyone doubts their wing chun, my advice is to go out and try other arts. Most arts like boxing, karate, BJJ and TKD are extremely quick but you will see straight away how your skills fair
(and that was not meant as a reccomendation to go and challenge other schools or 'try it on' with their students, but go in humble and you will see where your wing chun works)

I don't understand how you can spar with another style and then compare them equally. For wing chun to be effective, you have to go at 100%. This is when you're utilizing it at its true speed. Sparing or love tapping doesn't work with us because if it were a street fight a single move could have more then one objective. It's either on or its not because we're a striking art. You stated something about tan sao'ing a roundhouse kick. Why would you do that when you can merely step in and close the gap. A good fighter CAN use a kick to get out of a close range situation but most fighters can't and wouldn't waste the energy or time to do so because there are easier options at that closer range.

I do agree, you should play around with people of other styles or arts. So that you may learn a more diverse range of opponents. I wouldn't call it sparring though because you are playing by their rules.

[tenth1]

just out of interest what is sparring to you brocklee, i understand some of what you are saying but would just like a clearer picture of your veiwpoint.

[brocklee]

just out of interest what is sparring to you brocklee, i understand some of what you are saying but would just like a clearer picture of your veiwpoint.


To me? Sparring is a lighter form of combat used to compare an individual's level of skill. Normally competitive sparring uses a point system and the objective isn't to beat the pulp out of the opponent. Points are rewarded for strikes or kicks to certain areas of the body and they're deducted for strikes or kicks to areas that are sensitive or a danger to the opponents overall health.

Its normally performed at 50% - 75% speed and power

[matsu]

Sparing or love tapping doesn't work with us because if it were a street fight a single move could have more then one objective. It's either on or its not because we're a striking art. You stated something about tan sao'ing a roundhouse kick. Why would you do that when you can merely step in and close the gap. A good fighter CAN use a kick to get out of a close range situation but most fighters can't and wouldn't waste the energy or time to do so because there are easier options at that closer range.

I do agree, you should play around with people of other styles or arts. So that you may learn a more diverse range of opponents. I wouldn't call it sparring though because you are playing by their rules.

i understand what you are saying, i think its always a good idea to explore techniques from other styles/systems and how we can use our techniques to their best use, it also helps us use them in real situations.
by forcing yourself to be confronted-(sparring at real speed but with only semi contact) yiu will learn and remember how to use those skills better.
surely our drills are sparring but just in an extreme controlled manner. perhaps it is ajust a case of mixing it up every so often.
just my tuppence
matsu

[KamonGuy2]

Sparring takes various forms. Traditional sparring is difficult to do in wing chun. Sparring is about flowing and trying to work on movement, footwork, and finding targets

The nature of wing chun is that once you are in, you stay in and hack away with elbows, knife hand strikes etc

This kind of negates the usual form of sparring which is two guys standing off, gloving up and going at it with mutual kicks and punches

In Kamon, we call the practice of wing chun movements 'feeding techniques'. Whereby a person will come in with random attacks and we wrap them up and use wing chun movements

As soon as distance occurs (ie both students have a 'gap' between them)we have two options - close distance or spar at that range

If you spar at that range most techniques go out the window as 75% of wing chun is designed to fight medium to close range. That is why at Kamon we explore loose sparring at longer ranges so we are comfortable in that position

[brocklee]

Sparring takes various forms. Traditional sparring is difficult to do in wing chun. Sparring is about flowing and trying to work on movement, footwork, and finding targets

The nature of wing chun is that once you are in, you stay in and hack away with elbows, knife hand strikes etc

This kind of negates the usual form of sparring which is two guys standing off, gloving up and going at it with mutual kicks and punches

In Kamon, we call the practice of wing chun movements 'feeding techniques'. Whereby a person will come in with random attacks and we wrap them up and use wing chun movements

As soon as distance occurs (ie both students have a 'gap' between them)we have two options - close distance or spar at that range

If you spar at that range most techniques go out the window as 75% of wing chun is designed to fight medium to close range. That is why at Kamon we explore loose sparring at longer ranges so we are comfortable in that position

That make sense. Feeding drills is really what would be considered sparring in other worlds. That's what I call playing.

[KamonGuy2]

Exactly. Unfortunately with wing chun, you can't go at it full pelt. In boxing you can go as hard as you like either using bags or opponents. In wing chun its difficult to train like that, because even with a glove on, a full power knife hand to the throat will drop a guy. Same with elbows. You might get away with head gear and give it a go, but it is better training on wallbags, dummies or pads

So sparring using wing chun is kind of out

Also, Brocklee, I noted your earlier comment about tan sao'ing a kick - it was just an example
Stepping in and closing distance against a roundhouse is more difficult than you think - I thought that before I started training knockdown karate, and other styles are not as easy to defeat as a lot of chunners think. It is essential to have good defense against kicks and punches at long range whilst you are attempting to get closer to them

Watch the UFC - the BJJ guys have to stay at distance for a while while the kicks and strikes come at them. They then pick their moment to close the distance and thats that. If closing distance was easy, you would see all the BJJ guys in UFC doing that immediately

[brocklee]

Exactly. Unfortunately with wing chun, you can't go at it full pelt. In boxing you can go as hard as you like either using bags or opponents. In wing chun its difficult to train like that, because even with a glove on, a full power knife hand to the throat will drop a guy. Same with elbows. You might get away with head gear and give it a go, but it is better training on wallbags, dummies or pads

So sparring using wing chun is kind of out

Also, Brocklee, I noted your earlier comment about tan sao'ing a kick - it was just an example
Stepping in and closing distance against a roundhouse is more difficult than you think - I thought that before I started training knockdown karate, and other styles are not as easy to defeat as a lot of chunners think. It is essential to have good defense against kicks and punches at long range whilst you are attempting to get closer to them

Watch the UFC - the BJJ guys have to stay at distance for a while while the kicks and strikes come at them. They then pick their moment to close the distance and thats that. If closing distance was easy, you would see all the BJJ guys in UFC doing that immediately

I do watch UFC and can't compare it to a street fight because BJJ hurts when concrete and objects are involved. The reason there's a gap for so long is because it's a competition that needs to be thought out well because the outcome is to win by the rules. In a street fight, as a chunner, it should be more like....Realize a fight has actually been initiated, close the gap swiftly and throw the first punch. This removes the opponents possibility of a kick and puts the non chunner opponent in an uncomfortable position.

[matsu]

hee hee this is a great debate!
for me who has some competition experience in another style i now realise how effective wing chun could be "in the real world"
and i think that if "sparring" is done with an open mind and use as prep for the possibility that an opponnent knows what they are doing then its win:win for the student.
my sifu commbines traditional wing chun and rwl life situations to help you think about how it can be most effective..

matsu

[KamonGuy2]

I do watch UFC and can't compare it to a street fight because BJJ hurts when concrete and objects are involved. The reason there's a gap for so long is because it's a competition that needs to be thought out well because the outcome is to win by the rules. In a street fight, as a chunner, it should be more like....Realize a fight has actually been initiated, close the gap swiftly and throw the first punch. This removes the opponents possibility of a kick and puts the non chunner opponent in an uncomfortable position.
In fights, distance can close very quickly, especially with a brawler. However, it can also stay at distance (which I found out to my cost). There are a lot of well trained boxers who will not let you close distance

Of course UFC is not exactly the same as a streetfight, but BJJ doesn't hurt on concrete. I've had a lot of fights involving grappling (which is my least favourite art) and have had no problem on hard surfaces

If you look at youtube and see how chunners do against long range arts, a lot of the time the chunner is preoccupied with closing and finds themself struggling

My whole point is that at times, closing distance is difficult and chunners can get caught at that range
Too many chunners think that it is easy to close the gap
Whilst I agree that in some fights space closes quickly, in many fights the reverse happens. I've also known people to 'push' their opponent away when they are in close

It is a lot easier to build up good sparring skills than it is to train yourself to be able to close the gap every time

[CuongNhuka]

I just want to make sure we're all on the same thought process here, correct me if I'm wrong:

Long range = kicking/some jab-cross
Medium range = punching
Short range = trapping/clinch

Along with ground and out of range.

[KamonGuy2]

I think you've summarized it well although there are exceptions

You can trap people occasionally at medium-long range, by using their arm as a barrier against themselves

Punching can also be done at close range. If I'm grappling on the floor, I will use strikes as well

[brocklee]

I just want to make sure we're all on the same thought process here, correct me if I'm wrong:

Long range = kicking/some jab-cross
Medium range = punching
Short range = trapping/clinch

Along with ground and out of range.

Being a chunner I see it as:

Long range = walk 2 steps forward
Medium range = 1 step forward
Close range = :D

[CuongNhuka]

I think you've summarized it well although there are exceptions

You can trap people occasionally at medium-long range, by using their arm as a barrier against themselves

Punching can also be done at close range. If I'm grappling on the floor, I will use strikes as well

General idea was all I was really going for. Besides, Wing Chun teaches some kicks.

[mook jong man]

in sifu jim fungs school in sydney we had a couple of types of sparring that we did . they were chi sau sparring, hand sparring from the guard, and what was called random arms and legs where the wing chun guy defended against any style of attack oh also multiple opponents.

[CuongNhuka]

Sparring from the guard? Please, do go on!

[mook jong man]

to clarify i mean both guys standing in front of each other with their guards up just out of punching range using wing chun hand techniques no legs . they called it light hand sparring mainly using pak sau, latching and continnuous punching

[CuongNhuka]

What's the branch of Wing Chun?

[mook jong man]

sifu jim who passed away last year trained under sigung tsui seung tin

[CuongNhuka]

Interesting. Cuong Nhu includes a bit of Wing Chun, and we (used to) do "Cuong Nhu Chi Sao". Which is basicly two people go to Man Sao Wu Sao, and from there do Chi Sao. What you described seems similar... I'm curious if there's a connection (I'm not sure which linegeage of Wing Chun is in Cuong Nhu, so it seems very possible to me that O'Sensei Ngo Dong studied from the same line as Sifu Jim).

Is this line related to Yip Man?

[mook jong man]

sigung tsui seung tin was one of the 4 senior masters along with wong shun leung, lok yu and leung seung . three of them lived with yip man for several years. sifu jim started training with sigung tsui in 1960. i think sifu jim changed a couple of things for australians in our classes kicking is taught straight away in hong kong i dont think you kick till after about 4 years. we were very orientated towards street style attacks not just doing chi sau all the time but dealing with random punches ,grabs and kicks as soon as the student could do the basic techniques.

[CuongNhuka]

Did any of these Masters happen to live in Vietnam? I know that O'Sensei had a 'live in Sifu' for many years who he trained with (by proxy, it's a long story...). However, I know that we start kicking with Chum Kiu, there's only a few kicks taught, but they are in there.

[mook jong man]

sorry mate i dont know if any of them lived in vietnam . as far as i know they all lived and taught in hong kong.

[CuongNhuka]

Well, is what Sifu Jim/Sigung Tsui Seung Tin teach very similar to Yip Man Wing Chun, or would an outside obersver think it was a non-Yip Man line?

[mook jong man]

it is yip man wing chun. the stance is pidgeon toed with both feet equal and the body square on and slightly sunk down and hands on the centerline in an open handed guard. there are other wing chun systems in australia but i think they have a stance with 1 foot forward not square on like us.

[CuongNhuka]

Hu... is there a website a could investigate?

[mook jong man]

yeah there is im not too good on the computer so i dont know how to make a link but it is called master jim fungs international wing chun academy. i stopped training there in 2000 i was one of his instructors but got kicked out for training in ground fighting they didnt like that sort of thing back then. now i hear they teach it there , doesnt matter ive gone on to dabble in krav magaa, doce pares, kali illustrissimo which has made me more complete. just google master jim fungs international wing chun academy.

[CuongNhuka]

Can do. Thank you.

[KamonGuy2]

Mook, just out of interest - what has happened to Jim Fung's academy now he has passed away?

Isit still running? And under who?

[mook jong man]

kamon guy i dont have anything to do with them anymore but from what ive heard there are about 7 chief instructors running it. they were my seniors and are very lucky because sigung tsui comes over from hong kong every couple of months to train them.

[brocklee]

kamon guy i dont have anything to do with them anymore but from what ive heard there are about 7 chief instructors running it. they were my seniors and are very lucky because sigung tsui comes over from hong kong every couple of months to train them.

Thats dope